New Official AMT Thread

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Well I just want satisfaction since we have been waiting so long and this way we can be getting what we paid for and a little extra, also we will be saving them money so they can stay in business and try to figure out the problems with their equipment so they can run a successful business.

+1 Pretty much my view as well.
I tend to believe that folks behind AMT were pure marketing background with little to no experience in actually *designing* a technically complex product of any sort much less producing it in volume. If they tried to outsource all the knowledge it takes to design and produce it for them...man they chose the wrong folks. If AMT survives this I hope to God they learn from it what it take to bring a complex product to market.

As for Bitmine.ch whom AMT relied on for design reference - well BMch should have known better. Did they learn nothing from making the Avalon-based systems?

[opieum2]

Well I just want satisfaction since we have been waiting so long and this way we can be getting what we paid for and a little extra, also we will be saving them money so they can stay in business and try to figure out the problems with their equipment so they can run a successful business.

+1 Pretty much my view as well.
I tend to believe that folks behind AMT were pure marketing background with little to no experience in actually *designing* a technically complex product (of any sort) much less producing it in volume. If they tried to 'outsource' all the knowledge it takes to design it right and then produce it for them...man they chose the wrong folks. If AMT survives this I hope to God they learn from it what it take to bring a complex product to market.

As for Bitmine.ch - they should have know better. Did they learn nothing from making the Avalon-based systems?

Regardless the settlement should be something that compensates us for our losses here. Honestly it would suck to see any business fail....especially with our money still tied up in it. But if they have any hope of restoring any customer confidence back they need to start by making this right. That means HONEST communication. FOLLOWING through on what they say they will do. And stop blaming their customers for their problems. We got bad hardware. The nice thing is there is more than enough data to support that now. They also openly admitted the hardware was bad and shipped it to us anyway. So now they are forced to make this right.

Once that is all done everyone can put this whole thing behind them and move on, if they choose to keep going as a business then they should but improve their processes so they don't repeat history for themselves.

Oh and we are 48 hours past their original announcement. It will be 3 days with nothing from AMT. MY guess that little item is being added to the laundry list of misrepresentations for the class action.

[rik_khaos]

New AMT theme song Sounds of Silence.

[opieum2]

New AMT theme song Sounds of Silence.

Still crickets in here. No info no update no nothing from AMT. I really was hoping they had turned the corner and I was in support of that...but more of the same talking no action.  Oh also I would like to be compensated for the power supplies I had to buy that should have been included with my purchase in the first place. ALso the extra equipment like a heat sensor and fluke are things that NOONE should have to purchase. Many of the people here are not engineers. They want hardware that just works. As do I.

[mrpark]

AMT_miners - please tell me what to do with this broken miner, I have been trying to return it to you for a month now. I call you, no one picks up, no one returns my emails and you are no longer picking up your mail. You also do not answer me here in the forum. Are you stilll in business anymore? If you are it is a very odd way to run a business.

[opieum2]

Well fact is they got scared off now. Everyone even those of us who previously supported them now want answers and are not willing to settle for anything less than what we paid for. The problem is they are looking to give us less than what we paid for and it has been that way from the start. That runs afoul of alot of bait and switch tactics, and a number of other fraud related items. Fact that they didn't have any working hardware or apparently even prototypes ready at order time way back when they started is an indication that they have been flying by the seat of their pants here.  Our money was used to fund their business in a very investor like fashion. They skirted around the legalities of that as well.

At this point I am expecting to see the next email as being the settlement. And honestly that settlement has better be something that compensates us fully for our trouble....

The time for words is past....I want to see some actionable items. I want results. This thread has been their primary means of communication with us. Email for most is non-existent. Phone is non-existent if they moved their office, they are likely not using the same number.

Somehow I doubt their lawyer is as flaky as they are and say "first thing in the morning" and not deliver. I think this was another AMT line to get us to be pacified. All it did is turn everyone against them now.
more than 3 days have past since that original announcement.

[opieum2]

I think at this point its important to start vetting these guys using official sources. I noticed there is no entry for them in the BBB surprised there haven't been complaints filed with them yet. A few complaints over what they have done would be enough to ensure noone does business with AMT or even considers this. This might be a good way to start a general process of vetting all these pre-order businesses. It will also establish accountability so they don't screw around with our money...and worse screw us in the process. I am tired of this crap and want to insure this does not happen to anyone again.

FYI keeping this thread bumped so it gets the proper exposure...everyone should know what is going on. Since they are dragging their feet on making us whole they will keep on dealing with all this flak until they turn it around in a huge way. They have no choice but to do the right thing and make this right. Lawyers or no lawyers they will suffer in the court of public opinion if they cant make this right. Their names will be infamous for this venture. They really have to make this right else....the mining community is small and the tech community as large as it appears is also not that big either. Social media has really shrunk the world.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

<snip> The problem is they are looking to give us less than what we paid for and it has been that way from the start. That runs afoul of alot of bait and switch tactics, and a number of other fraud related items. Fact that they didn't have any working hardware or apparently even prototypes ready at order time way back when they started is an indication that they have been flying by the seat of their pants here.  Our money was used to fund their business in a very investor like fashion. They skirted around the legalities of that as well. <snip>

I've said that bit from the start about the Pre-order gambit once I got caught up in this. In my case, unlike the TH rigs the 520 was NOT sold as pre-order. No mention of it at all, was sold as delivery in 4-weeks or less Implying that they and Bitmine had a basic working design for the smaller units that was having scaling problems. If it had been sold as pre-order I would not have bought in.

 I looked at other makers and aside from Bitmaintech all others were pre-order with no mention of prototypes being tested. Not even any mention of having sample chips of any sort in-hand. Since Ant s1's (with proven shipping of miners) were >4x their current price and AMT portrayed the 520 as available & cheaper per/GH it seemed a no-brainer to order from AMT.

Frankly the idea of paid-in-full pre-orders should be banned unless there is at least proven functional prototypes. Even that puts us more in the order of investors as opposed to customers. Worse yet it completely bypassed the most critical part on introducing a new product: initial testing to see how it works or even works at all. As investomers we became the alpha/beta testers when we were sold what should be at least tested an reasonably functional equipment.

From what I've gathered Bitmine, Hashfast, BFL and the others did not even have a single engineering sample of the chips when they began sales. What really bothers me is how willingly many folks paid them several 10's of k$ or more for untested ideas of a miner. If I was investing that much I'd 1st be making personal visits to the companies to check them out.

[opieum2]

Investomers is a funny term....it can now be turned against them. I will be passing this info along to a contact at the SEC (had a banking friend pass me the info) and see what the SEC makes of this. Because if indeed this qualifies as an investment, the SEC will A: Come down hard and B: place the assets of the company into a trust OR set up a voting system and allow the largest share holders (ie those who paid the most) board rights and assumption of control of the company. But in essence this COULD pass the litmus test for investors.

[opieum2]

The situation for them legally will continue to escalate until they do something to make this right. If indeed the FBI is looking into them then thats all she wrote. Might be a good time for them to start waving the white flag and start paying us back in full OR getting us miners. We made what I think are fair terms. Hell if we were to get 2 antminer S2s per 1.2ths miner purchase they would still be better off. I'm using them as an example from a price point only. Seeing as the price dropped 100 bucks in the last few days they now save a bit more. They might want to consider this path as an option to quickly close the book on this because this situation is going to escalate much faster now even with the class action.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Investomers is a funny term....it can now be turned against them. I will be passing this info along to a contact at the SEC (had a banking friend pass me the info) and see what the SEC makes of this. Because if indeed this qualifies as an investment, the SEC will A: Come down hard and B: place the assets of the company into a trust OR set up a voting system and allow the largest share holders (ie those who paid the most) board rights and assumption of control of the company. But in essence this COULD pass the litmus test for investors.

Ja. At least with Kickstarter and their ilk things are very clearly laid out such as business plan, product concepts and milestones. Transparency abounds and folks know what they are buying into.

If AMT and the other companies saw such great market potential they should have had no trouble at all getting real backing to actually have a product before hitting the market with it. They talked about mining so 'time sensitive' as an excuse why they did pre-orders but obviously were not talking about the user end - just their sales.

My business's customers make chips/power components & other bits for mass-manufactured consumer electronics and other markets. To say the least it is also very time critical with customers buying up all the equipment we can produce. For my latest design in production we are booked for the next 12 months! We have also stopped further sales until we put a dent in that backlog. Difference is, we know the market demand and funded all of the new system development & prototyping costs ourselves to the tune of $1.3 million. My Gen5 systems are going to be even more but again it is up to us to prove the systems work before we see 1 dime from our customers. At least when they see results vs what others cannot even come close to providing their very large wallets open up damn fast!

THAT is how a bleeding-edge technology business should be ran.

[opieum2]

Investomers is a funny term....it can now be turned against them. I will be passing this info along to a contact at the SEC (had a banking friend pass me the info) and see what the SEC makes of this. Because if indeed this qualifies as an investment, the SEC will A: Come down hard and B: place the assets of the company into a trust OR set up a voting system and allow the largest share holders (ie those who paid the most) board rights and assumption of control of the company. But in essence this COULD pass the litmus test for investors.

Ja. At least with Kickstarter and their ilk things are very clearly laid out for such as business plan, product concepts and milestones.

If AMT and the other companies saw such great market potential they would have had no trouble at all getting real backing to actually have a product before hitting the market with it. They talked about mining so 'time sensitive' as an excuse why they did pre-orders but obviously were not talking about the user end - just their sales.

My business's customers make chips/power components & other bits for mass-manufactured consumer electronics. To say the least it is also very time critical with customers buying up all the equipment we can produce. For my latest design in production we are booked for the next 12 months! We have also stopped further sales until we put a dent in that backlog. Difference is, we know the market demand and funded all of the new system development & prototyping costs ourselves to the tune of $1.3 million. My Gen5 systems are going to be even more but again it is up to us to prove the systems work before we see 1 dime from our customers. At least when they see results their very large wallets open up damn fast!

Right the thing here is AMT and other companies took advantage and misrepresented the hardware we were supposed to get. I find it quite hilarious how we wound up with hardware that didnt even match spec. The DIY packages were an insult really. But again they exploited the fact that we wanted these miners ASAP...really needed them...in retrospect it was a very messed up thing they did. Promises of ROI and the MPP just demonstrate that this was indeed an investment as money is in effect promised back indirectly. Consider that the MPP is basically a pledge that if we dont ROI they will make sure we get hardware to insure we ROI. That in itself is a promise (they have not even been close to fulfilling) of ROI.

We saw the original cases which were a render of course. And turned out to be the now posted antec case on the main page. It obviously looks WAY out of place with the rest of the page as well. Hence why they were told to stop making changes to the page. We also got screwed over on the power supplies and the cases AND they shipped hardware with known defects in it. It seems like month after month we were being conned into making more compromises. We did not PAY for a compromise we paid for what we were supposed to get what was advertised originally. Now that I am dealing with this with BFL as well I am going on the warpath and making a point of taking down all of these companies that do this. They will learn to either to do the right thing or go down. This situation got me really angry overall. But these people have no intention of making things right....a lawsuit was needed to make this work. And now we are stuck in a lurch with either broken hardware that they already knew would fail, OR no hardware at all OR deliberately poorly packed hardware that shows no clear intention of careful packing. There was no best effort. Just packed poorly and arrived in bad shape. There is more than enough documentation to show this now. Burden of proof is on them to show they didnt do that. And they dont have that proof. They already owned up that they are discriminatory in their practice in the original thread to who they ship to and who they will dole out refunds to. They are discriminatory in how they will ship their stuff...altho I think all in all they would just ship it all broken anyway. I even got "assurances" my stuff worked. But no proof. I could not even test it at the office as I asked. Instead I was made to go to a bar to get the miners and get them from the back of a truck.

[Biffa]

The situation for them legally will continue to escalate until they do something to make this right. If indeed the FBI is looking into them then thats all she wrote. Might be a good time for them to start waving the white flag and start paying us back in full OR getting us miners. We made what I think are fair terms. Hell if we were to get 2 antminer S2s per 1.2ths miner purchase they would still be better off. I'm using them as an example from a price point only. Seeing as the price dropped 100 bucks in the last few days they now save a bit more. They might want to consider this path as an option to quickly close the book on this because this situation is going to escalate much faster now even with the class action.

And yet, a small positive post by AMT will probably get some people back on the defensive again. Won't take much for some. Its like stockholm syndrome.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

And yet, a small positive post by AMT will probably get some people back on the defensive again. Won't take much for some. Its like stockholm syndrome.

I doubt it. The only positive post that will work to take any heat off (not all) is, "we have all parts and have began assembling & shipping miners. Order #'s xxx-xxx will ship on <insert date here>". For real this time with proof of it. That and an email regarding where I am in shipping date queue. Or confirmation from another miner mfgr that AMT has placed an order with them for my unit.

The only defense I give them is that I fully understand systems design & production. I know how things usually go and that you must ALWAYS plan on a new design needing tweaks, having supply chain issues, etc. Knowing how the A1 chip turned out I and others are even willing to accept the actual specs and take miners based on how things are.

What I cannot defend is how badly they blew it all leading up to this nor how they are (not) handling things now that the chips are real and they have a system design that should work reasonably well.

[opieum2]

The situation for them legally will continue to escalate until they do something to make this right. If indeed the FBI is looking into them then thats all she wrote. Might be a good time for them to start waving the white flag and start paying us back in full OR getting us miners. We made what I think are fair terms. Hell if we were to get 2 antminer S2s per 1.2ths miner purchase they would still be better off. I'm using them as an example from a price point only. Seeing as the price dropped 100 bucks in the last few days they now save a bit more. They might want to consider this path as an option to quickly close the book on this because this situation is going to escalate much faster now even with the class action.

And yet, a small positive post by AMT will probably get some people back on the defensive again. Won't take much for some. Its like stockholm syndrome.

Not really not any more I think one can only hear the same crap over and over before they say its done.....they claimed an announcement for Thursday. Thursday came and went. I think it is time for the authorities to start hearing it from everyone. We dont know the status of the lawsuit yet and its a safe bet they are trying to minimize whatever losses they take at our expense. Seeing whats been happening to people...and myself personally in all this. I am tired of it. I paid over 11k for this mythical hardware that was supposed to be great....but I have giant paperweights essentially that are either not working or grossly under-performing. ANd what makes it worse is that they knew it would do this as they owned up to this as well.

[AMT_miners]

Dear AMT customers/clients/followers.

We write to inform you that due to the pending class action, Lenell et al. v. Advanced Mining Technology, Inc., No. 14-cv-01924 (E.D.Pa.), we will no longer be communicating on the Bitcoin Talk Forum per the advice of our attorneys. We are still working towards resolving all outstanding customer complaints in conjunction with our counsel. Please note that customers may still contact us directly to  discuss issues with their orders, but we will be unable to use the forum as a means of communication regarding specific orders or the pending litigation. You may contact us by phone at 855-866-6463 or by email at josh@advancedminers.com .  We will still handle individual communications regarding orders within the ordinary course of business.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Dear AMT customers/clients/followers.

We write to inform you that due to the pending class action, Lenell et al. v. Advanced Mining Technology, Inc., No. 14-cv-01924 (E.D.Pa.), we will no longer be communicating on the Bitcoin Talk Forum per the advice of our attorneys. We are still working towards resolving all outstanding customer complaints in conjunction with our counsel. Please note that customers may still contact us directly to  discuss issues with their orders, but we will be unable to use the forum as a means of communication regarding specific orders or the pending litigation. You may contact us by phone at 855-866-6463 or by email at josh@advancedminers.com .  We will still handle individual communications regarding orders within the ordinary course of business.

Been waiting for that. Got a hunch that Josh's public offers did not sit well with the legal eagles.

I do pray that AMT and their attorneys realize that this means that they now MUST reply to our emails/calls in a timely manner with at least a canned vetted response as that is the only avenue of contact that is left open to us...

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

within the ordinary course of business.

Wonder how the word "ordinary" is being used there.

[YourPalToots]

Dear AMT customers/clients/followers.

We write to inform you that due to the pending class action, Lenell et al. v. Advanced Mining Technology, Inc., No. 14-cv-01924 (E.D.Pa.), we will no longer be communicating on the Bitcoin Talk Forum per the advice of our attorneys. We are still working towards resolving all outstanding customer complaints in conjunction with our counsel. Please note that customers may still contact us directly to  discuss issues with their orders, but we will be unable to use the forum as a means of communication regarding specific orders or the pending litigation. You may contact us by phone at 855-866-6463 or by email at josh@advancedminers.com .  We will still handle individual communications regarding orders within the ordinary course of business.

Which means ZERO communication.

thanks

[Squeeky62]

Dear AMT customers/clients/followers.

We write to inform you that due to the pending class action, Lenell et al. v. Advanced Mining Technology, Inc., No. 14-cv-01924 (E.D.Pa.), we will no longer be communicating on the Bitcoin Talk Forum per the advice of our attorneys. We are still working towards resolving all outstanding customer complaints in conjunction with our counsel. Please note that customers may still contact us directly to  discuss issues with their orders, but we will be unable to use the forum as a means of communication regarding specific orders or the pending litigation. You may contact us by phone at 855-866-6463 or by email at josh@advancedminers.com .  We will still handle individual communications regarding orders within the ordinary course of business.

Please make sure you answer our emails and calls please. I have been supportive of you guys but if you shut us out completely and don't talk to us, it would be worse.