New Official AMT Thread

[ISAWHIM]

Well sumptin' sure is lying.
My pool reported rates generally are pretty close/exceed what the Ants locally report So I have to assume that clean work is being done no?

Yea, pools "calculate" your rewards... not all calculate fairly... (Some don't count work after a new block has been found, though you were honestly still working on the block it last told you to work on. Some do.)

That, and they calculate the "credit/shares" based off what you return. If you return only a few 256 diffs, and you are hashing at 256, you are 100%. If you submit a few lucky finds of 2048 and 4096 diffs, (though you are only hashing at 256-level), you seem to be doing 4x to 8x faster work... but that is usually neutralized by your submission of a few 256 diff shares, later.)

Also, depending on your credit, per shift... you may submit valid work after a shift is complete, which goes into the next shift. Thus, your last shift will be short, and your next closed shift will be higher. (The average there works-out in time too.)

I was recently on a server that gave me credit only for blocks in which I actually submitted a share to. (That was in improperly setup pool.) It rewarded some goof with super-low share-submits, the majority of the reward for those blocks, while the finder, who obviously submitted a much higher reward diff, got 1 share. Thus, creating a lotto for that one guy who did not find the block, but sneakily submitted thousands of small shares, while some workers honestly working, did not even get one share into that shift, because it ended so fast, and thus, do not get that reward, that they earned. (In time, that does not work-out, because bigger machines are forced to submit harder diffs, thus getting less shares, and missing blocks/shifts, on some fast coins. This is not much of an issue with BTC, due to the nature of the long-ass block-times.)

So, yea... just had to mention that.

I assume your ants are graciously reporting "safe" estimates... but actually submitting an average higher. That happens when you use real estimates. Some are higher, some are lower. Luck in coins, comes in waves. It is only pseudo-random, not true random hashing. Though others will argue with me, the history of any pools "luck" and "found blocks" indicates clear patterns of waves, almost predictable enough that I can predict who will find the next block in the pool, but not when they will find it, or on what block they will find it on. As well as tell you how-many they will hit in a row. xD Usually goes... 0, 0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 0, 3, 0, 4, 5, 0, 0, 6, 0, 0, 5, 4, 0, 3, 0, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0... or 0, 1, 0, 0, 2, 3, 0, 4, 0, 0, 5, 6, 0, 6, 5, 0, 0, 4, 0, 3, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0... (For the bigger boys in a pool. For smaller boys, they have that same pattern, but wider, in the 0's.) This changes with each diff-change, but remains a similar pattern, just with more 0's and less "multi-hit" blocks. It is a lot easier to see on lower-diff coins, or coins where the miners are larger, by identity.

They are waves in waves in waves... Like sound, how the output is the accumulation of all frequencies, on one wave. But, it is all waves. That is the predictable part. Once you determine the length of each isolated wave in the accumulation. Helps if you know the hidden prime-number used for the base in the calculation too. There is always a prime number in the formula, not always a blunt number, but the formula itself is a prime result or leads to one. Welcome to my world, the matrix, xD.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

That explains the spikes I see at times. By the numbers my pharm is running 1.65THs yet often the pool reports 1.8-1.93 THS for several minutes as well as equal dips from nominal every now and then. Overall is on target with the numbers though @ 1.65-1.71

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I play the wave game as well now and then switching from dgm to pps.. Hit the jackpot on the last 2-day block with over 185 million pps shares good for 0.486 BTC vs the typical dgm payout of 0.046 BTC per-block I get Usually do not do as well with pps.

[AMT_miners]

I am unfamiliar with the "grey market", could you elaborate?

Unauthorized vendors/brokers selling components of unknown origin (not directly obtained from the maker and no paper trail). Think e-bay. The parts might be good and are cheaper because they are legit factory over runs (rare) or someones surplus inventory. But - they might not be and unless one checks every single piece used against spec there is NO assurance that it will be right.

Counterfeit electronic components is a very serious problem in all industries. If one is lucky they are just out-of-spec factory-rejects that failed testing and were improperly disposed of so someone dumpster dived for them to resell. There have even been cases of chips with no actual die in them! Most common is components which are an older version that have been relabeled to be a new one.

Now to be fair and although they ruined the business we need to not make them look like complete outlaws.They did order from Digi and mouser, but some of the hard to place parts were ordered from "a guy I knew that had them in stock". These were for the harder to find NXP parts and LTC's. But yes,when asked for invoices/proof of purchase we were met with weeks of delays followed by a stack of papers comparable to something you'd find in one of the Junior lawyers offices in our law firm. And "sure you can make copies, but we're closing now,maybe some time next".. bs bs..

[FrictionlessCoin]

I am unfamiliar with the "grey market", could you elaborate?

Unauthorized vendors/brokers selling components of unknown origin (not directly obtained from the maker and no paper trail). Think e-bay. The parts might be good and are cheaper because they are legit factory over runs (rare) or someones surplus inventory. But - they might not be and unless one checks every single piece used against spec there is NO assurance that it will be right.

Counterfeit electronic components is a very serious problem in all industries. If one is lucky they are just out-of-spec factory-rejects that failed testing and were improperly disposed of so someone dumpster dived for them to resell. There have even been cases of chips with no actual die in them! Most common is components which are an older version that have been relabeled to be a new one.

Now to be fair and although they ruined the business we need to not make them look like complete outlaws.They did order from Digi and mouser, but some of the hard to place parts were ordered from "a guy I knew that had them in stock". These were for the harder to find NXP parts and LTC's. But yes,when asked for invoices/proof of purchase we were met with weeks of delays followed by a stack of papers comparable to something you'd find in one of the Junior lawyers offices in our law firm. And "sure you can make copies, but we're closing now,maybe some time next".. bs bs..

I think you are just making this up about manufacturer problems and defective parts.

The reason I say this is that based on what you shipped and how you shipped it,  you seem to want to cut corners at every opportunity.  

So given the opportunity to acquire sub-standard parts,  you likely would have taken it.

In summary,  all you do is pretend to care about quality, but you never deliver on it.   

[rik_khaos]

I am unfamiliar with the "grey market", could you elaborate?

Unauthorized vendors/brokers selling components of unknown origin (not directly obtained from the maker and no paper trail). Think e-bay. The parts might be good and are cheaper because they are legit factory over runs (rare) or someones surplus inventory. But - they might not be and unless one checks every single piece used against spec there is NO assurance that it will be right.

Counterfeit electronic components is a very serious problem in all industries. If one is lucky they are just out-of-spec factory-rejects that failed testing and were improperly disposed of so someone dumpster dived for them to resell. There have even been cases of chips with no actual die in them! Most common is components which are an older version that have been relabeled to be a new one.

Now to be fair and although they ruined the business we need to not make them look like complete outlaws.They did order from Digi and mouser, but some of the hard to place parts were ordered from "a guy I knew that had them in stock". These were for the harder to find NXP parts and LTC's. But yes,when asked for invoices/proof of purchase we were met with weeks of delays followed by a stack of papers comparable to something you'd find in one of the Junior lawyers offices in our law firm. And "sure you can make copies, but we're closing now,maybe some time next".. bs bs..

Obvious Alert : this will be taken down

But how is it that you can see how you were treated and then treat your customers the exact same way.

Now don't get me wrong, you guys got screwed 6 ways from sunday there is no debating that fact. And just as it looked like you turned tail and ran for the hills you re emerged with a new found respect for the community. I'm sure there was legit reasoning behind your silence, probably due to legal issue you were working out with third parties. I can accept that.

What I can't accept is a "It's not that the boards don't work..." answer because the fact of the matter is the boards don't work on a technical level that you can reasonably  expect your average consumer to understand nor have the knowledge to fix. If I get a faulty TV the company can't reasonably expect me to wait 4 months while they find out what was wrong in their manufacturing process or have me take the TV apart to make find the problem my self.

You say it's about making bitcoin stronger not 3 month ROIs. Well you know what? It was about 3 month ROIs to your earliest orders who could have reasonably expected that if the product was indeed delivered when they were told it would be.

I came to your page way later than that date. I didn't expect a 3 month ROI. I did want an Positive ROI like anyone else who is buying from you. But I didn't sink my money in to coins, I sank it into a miner. Because it's not just you or zefir that cares about what bitcoin stands for or will potentially be. It's also the adopter of the technology, not just the creators, that drive growth and acceptance. A pile of (currently) useless boards doesn't strengthen bitcoin, but getting people up on the network does. I'm going to apply the fixes you've mentioned here in this thread in the hopes of getting something working up on the next work. But I'm not going to let the equipment burn in my apartment and potentially kill someone because it slipped through the hands of your quality assurance people.

[Casiriahmine]

Where do I sign up for the class action suite again?

I would like a refund, and have just started the process up.

What is the title and number of the suite?

I would like my money back. ROI is impossible on a 12K loan, and with difficulty, and only 3-5/10 modules running correctly with SHOT backplanes that I have resolded several times.....Yeah, I am throwing in the towel.

I'll keep what I have now, and prepare my legal endings.


~Casey Merry~
~Merry Miners CEO~

[sirminesalot]

I am unfamiliar with the "grey market", could you elaborate?

Unauthorized vendors/brokers selling components of unknown origin (not directly obtained from the maker and no paper trail). Think e-bay. The parts might be good and are cheaper because they are legit factory over runs (rare) or someones surplus inventory. But - they might not be and unless one checks every single piece used against spec there is NO assurance that it will be right.

Counterfeit electronic components is a very serious problem in all industries. If one is lucky they are just out-of-spec factory-rejects that failed testing and were improperly disposed of so someone dumpster dived for them to resell. There have even been cases of chips with no actual die in them! Most common is components which are an older version that have been relabeled to be a new one.

Now to be fair and although they ruined the business we need to not make them look like complete outlaws.They did order from Digi and mouser, but some of the hard to place parts were ordered from "a guy I knew that had them in stock". These were for the harder to find NXP parts and LTC's. But yes,when asked for invoices/proof of purchase we were met with weeks of delays followed by a stack of papers comparable to something you'd find in one of the Junior lawyers offices in our law firm. And "sure you can make copies, but we're closing now,maybe some time next".. bs bs..

I think you are just making this up about manufacturer problems and defective parts.

The reason I say this is that based on what you shipped and how you shipped it,  you seem to want to cut corners at every opportunity.  

So given the opportunity to acquire sub-standard parts,  you likely would have taken it.

In summary,  all you do is pretend to care about quality, but you never deliver on it.  

At the end of the day, they are the business that has taken everyone's money, and AMT has the final responsibility in this matter. So they SUPPOSEDLY hired some dodgy manufacturing outfit to produce the miners, and it didn't work out. They want to pass the blame onto someone else to cover their ass, big surprise.

Since the beginning, they sold themselves as the MANUFACTURERS of the miners themselves, now we are to believe it was all outsourced to some incompetent company that has screwed up by buying a bunch of parts off of "the grey market"? Get real. What about QA/QC? WAS ANY TESTING EVER DONE BY AMT?!

What about all those posts about how they have people night and day working to put these miners together? Are we sure the ball wasn't dropped there? These miners look like they were constructed by a 3 year old (smeared thermal paste everywhere, missing screws, missing parts, misaligned parts etc). Please, tell me who's to blame for the bullshit packing job and shipment (aka: destruction) of these miners? Is it Fedex's or UPS's fault? Who are you going to blame for dropping a $6,000 miner into a hollow box with a handful of packing material?

Just like the shipping, every FACET in regards to the build, assembly, QA/QC of these miners - was done HALF ASS. It's as simple as that. AMT's business model = wild cash grab followed by complete laziness. It's like once Joshua had the cash, he stopped giving a shit about delivering on his promises.

Besides, WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS REALLY EVEN HAVE TO DO WITH NOT GIVING CUSTOMERS REFUNDS? No excuse for this, though AMT would like everyone to believe the company was started with ZERO assets, except a drill gun and a cheap acer laptop. Now the customers have to reverse engineer AMT's incompetence for them. Let me remind you that there isn't a single person with a fully working miner, and it's nearly June 2014.

Anyone who believes these childish excuses, needs a whack upside the head. More stall tactics, and more blaming others instead of owning up and taking responsibility. Joshua, you're a fat, stupid, kid that needs his ass kicked. You've fucked a lot of people out of money, and now want to blame others for your own misrepresentations. Hopefully the justice system will deal with this retard accordingly.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Where do I sign up for the class action suite again?

I would like a refund, and have just started the process up.

What is the title and number of the suite?

I would like my money back. ROI is impossible on a 12K loan, and with difficulty, and only 3-5/10 modules running correctly with SHOT backplanes that I have resolded several times.....Yeah, I am throwing in the towel.

I'll keep what I have now, and prepare my legal endings.


~Casey Merry~
~Merry Miners CEO~

Easy to find.... just google "Joshua Zipkin Fraud".

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I am unfamiliar with the "grey market", could you elaborate?

Unauthorized vendors/brokers selling components of unknown origin (not directly obtained from the maker and no paper trail). Think e-bay. The parts might be good and are cheaper because they are legit factory over runs (rare) or someones surplus inventory. But - they might not be and unless one checks every single piece used against spec there is NO assurance that it will be right.
<snip>

Now to be fair and although they ruined the business we need to not make them look like complete outlaws.They did order from Digi and mouser, but some of the hard to place parts were ordered from "a guy I knew that had them in stock". These were for the harder to find NXP parts and LTC's. But yes,when asked for invoices/proof of purchase we were met with weeks of delays followed by a stack of papers comparable to something you'd find in one of the Junior lawyers offices in our law firm. And "sure you can make copies, but we're closing now,maybe some time next".. bs bs..

Very true and I was not meaning to imply they knowingly used counterfeit parts or that any were used at all. Was just clarifying to the op the possible ramifications of grey market parts and why they should never be used for any kind of commercial product without validation.

What does worry me is you mentioning specifically the NXP and LTC parts. NXP largely makes SOC (System-On-Chip) micro-controllers but other things as well. We use then in our lasers for all the background systems control and monitoring. Will be interesting to see what the miners do with them...

The LTC ones I assume are the Vdd switching regulators and if different than original spec'd other things (component values) usually have to be changed. Will be interesting to see what was done in that area.

[termonator61]

Where do I sign up for the class action suite again?

I would like a refund, and have just started the process up.

What is the title and number of the suite?

I would like my money back. ROI is impossible on a 12K loan, and with difficulty, and only 3-5/10 modules running correctly with SHOT backplanes that I have resolded several times.....Yeah, I am throwing in the towel.

I'll keep what I have now, and prepare my legal endings.


~Casey Merry~
~Merry Miners CEO~

Lawyer said it was an opt out suit, unless you go to them and tell them that you are pursuing your own legal action, you are already part of it.

[termonator61]

I am unfamiliar with the "grey market", could you elaborate?

<snip>
 There have even been cases of chips with no actual die in them!
<snip>

I thought the chips were ordered from Bitmine, and through them, from Innosilicon. I'm unclear how the manufacturer would have any part of how the chips were presented. I don't know a whole lot about how ASIC chips work but it seems like that would be very hard to miss and take effort to ignore. Then again, I'm no engineer.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I am unfamiliar with the "grey market", could you elaborate?

<snip>
 There have even been cases of chips with no actual die in them!
<snip>

I thought the chips were ordered from Bitmine, and through them, from Innosilicon. I'm unclear how the manufacturer would have any part of how the chips were presented. I don't know a whole lot about how ASIC chips work but it seems like that would be very hard to miss and take effort to ignore. Then again, I'm no engineer.

The A1 chips are not in question as yes they are sourced from Bitmain/Coincraft.
It is all the other components on the boards that we are talking about: capacitors, resistors, coms chips etc. For those I'd think the normal distribution channels have enough to not worry.

Per what AMT said, I think specifically parts from NXP & LTC which are high-demand parts are what will need to be verified. 'Specially Bitmine pretty much bought up all left in the supply chain at the time.

As for chips with no dies/incorrect dies in them, again that has nothing to do with our sitch here. I hope. NXP is one of the companies that *is* plagued with counterfeits. Was a general reference to what has been found in many many cases where counterfeiters have been caught and prosecuted. This issue has hit many industries.

A good starting point on it is http://counterfeitparts.wordpress.com/ and http://counterfeitparts.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/avoiding_counterfeit_electronic_components_part2.pdf

[FrictionlessCoin]

I am unfamiliar with the "grey market", could you elaborate?

<snip>
 There have even been cases of chips with no actual die in them!
<snip>

I thought the chips were ordered from Bitmine, and through them, from Innosilicon. I'm unclear how the manufacturer would have any part of how the chips were presented. I don't know a whole lot about how ASIC chips work but it seems like that would be very hard to miss and take effort to ignore. Then again, I'm no engineer.

The A1 chips are not in question as yes they are sourced from Bitmain/Coincraft.
It is all the other components on the boards that we are talking about: capacitors, resistors, coms chips etc.

As for the chips with no dies/incorrect dies in them, again that has nothing to do with our sitch here. Was a general reference to what has been found in many many cases where counterfeiters have been caught and prosecuted. This issue has hit many industries.

A good starting point on it is http://counterfeitparts.wordpress.com/ and http://counterfeitparts.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/avoiding_counterfeit_electronic_components_part2.pdf

Here is my issue with this complaint about poor parts.

AMT promised delivery on February.

If the boards were coming out of the manufacturer and testing bad in January, they should have informed customers of the problem and like any legit supplier, refunded anyone who requested.

Now we are here 5 months later,  nothing but bad shipments if any shipment at all. 

The point is this, do not ask people to pre-order if you cannot guarantee that you can deliver.  If you can't deliver then it is your responsibility to refund your customer.  It is like any other product,  if I order 500 barrels of oil to be delivered in February for a price of $100 and you can't do that because of someone bombing your pipeline, then you refund the $100 because you never delivered product.

Has AMT delivered working product?  No.   So we all deserve a refund.  Their manufacturing issues (if even remotely true) is their problem.  No sympathy from me.  They should have purchased insurance prior to embarking in this risky endeavor.   

[NotFuzzyWarm]

<snip>

Here is my issue with this complaint about poor parts.

AMT promised delivery on February.

If the boards were coming out of the manufacturer and testing bad in January, they should have informed customers of the problem and like any legit supplier, refunded anyone who requested.

Now we are here 5 months later,  nothing but bad shipments if any shipment at all.  

The point is this, do not ask people to pre-order if you cannot guarantee that you can deliver.  If you can't deliver then it is your responsibility to refund your customer.  It is like any other product,  if I order 500 barrels of oil to be delivered in February for a price of $100 and you can't do that because of someone bombing your pipeline, then you refund the $100 because you never delivered product.

Has AMT delivered working product?  No.   So we all deserve a refund.  Their manufacturing issues (if even remotely true) is their problem.  No sympathy from me.  They should have purchased insurance prior to embarking in this risky endeavor.  

By and large no disagreement from me there aside from the boards timeline. Even on that someone should have at least said, 'Um folks... Oops...'  Not that anyone probably read it but on AMT's site under News they did mention on Feb.10  that multiple versions of boards may be needed. https://advancedminers.com/pcb-prototype-testing-diagnostics/ Why was that not brought here where folks see it?

Gotta love the closer on that page:

Note from the swiss: “Several prototype runs of the boards will be be necessary, along with fine tuning and optimizations (especially on the power supply blocks and cooling) carried out by our team along with the highly specialized engineers in switzerland.” This can be a quick or lengthy process, only time can tell

Especially agree on the pre-order mess. Still baffles me that the practice is allowed at all.... This endeavor as well as those by BFL, HashFast, TerraMiner and others should have been properly financed 100% by their own sources. Not unwitting Investomers.

[Flying Hellfish]

<snip>

Here is my issue with this complaint about poor parts.

AMT promised delivery on February.

If the boards were coming out of the manufacturer and testing bad in January, they should have informed customers of the problem and like any legit supplier, refunded anyone who requested.

Now we are here 5 months later,  nothing but bad shipments if any shipment at all.  

The point is this, do not ask people to pre-order if you cannot guarantee that you can deliver.  If you can't deliver then it is your responsibility to refund your customer.  It is like any other product,  if I order 500 barrels of oil to be delivered in February for a price of $100 and you can't do that because of someone bombing your pipeline, then you refund the $100 because you never delivered product.

Has AMT delivered working product?  No.   So we all deserve a refund.  Their manufacturing issues (if even remotely true) is their problem.  No sympathy from me.  They should have purchased insurance prior to embarking in this risky endeavor.  

By and large no disagreement from me there aside from the boards timeline. Even on that someone should have at least said, 'Um folks... Oops...'  Not that anyone probably read it but on AMT's site under News they did mention on Feb.10  that multiple versions of boards may be needed. https://advancedminers.com/pcb-prototype-testing-diagnostics/ Why was that not brought here where folks see it?

Gotta love the closer on that page:

Note from the swiss: “Several prototype runs of the boards will be be necessary, along with fine tuning and optimizations (especially on the power supply blocks and cooling) carried out by our team along with the highly specialized engineers in switzerland.” This can be a quick or lengthy process, only time can tell

Especially agree on the pre-order mess. Still baffles me that the practice is allowed at all.... This endeavor as well as those by BFL, HashFast, TerraMiner and others should have been properly financed 100% by their own sources. Not unwitting Investomers.

Funny thing is as consumers you guys HAD ALL the power and you were throwing it away faster than they could collect it...  You guys made the pre-order model the easiest fastest solution for these companies to raise money (and what they raised was liabilities and not capital lol) so most of them used it.  Funny thing is once you guys handed over all the money the power switched form you to them.  We all have seen how they have handled the power you gave them, all cherries and ice cream before they got in your pants but then ignore became SoP once they blew their load.

There is a reason why the real world doesn't use pre-orders the reward simply rarely outweighs the risk.  The companies named above prove this point beyond a doubt.  Why do you think very few if any VC's were willing to take all the risk on NRE of BTC mining ASIC, because they knew the risk was so high that the reward could never come close to making it worth while for them...

The investomers of all of those companies got swindled by snake oil salesmen, the last resort is basically use the law to the best of your ability to bring restitution. Good luck guys I hope you get as much back as you can but it is going to be a LONG haul from here likely.

[mrpark]

It seems they also put the ribbon cable in backwards. Maybe they did it twice why it works. Electronics 101, the RED pin on a ribbon cable is pin one.  I don't know what they sent me but these boards even have different caps on each of the boards.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

It seems they also put the ribbon cable in backwards. Maybe they did it twice why it works. Electronics 101, the RED pin on a ribbon cable is pin one.  I don't know what they sent me but these boards even have different caps on each of the boards.

Red wire. The board/backplane are not keyed either so is possible to plug the boards in backwards. You'll have to look back or maybe Opium will pipe in but think the heatsinks face the ribbon cable end of the backplane.

But you want confusing??? SMD large cap polarity. Makes no difference if the orientation mark is red or black. Seen both colors used for both + side and the - side. Gotta know who made them and check their data sheet to know. LED indicator chips same way. from several makers the red family use a band to mark cathode yet for green ones the band is the anode. WTF?

edit: Looked in my pic collection and big sinks face ribbon connector. Don't forget to feed the little floppy drive power connecter next to it.

[mrpark]

The ribbon socket is keyed, and it works. I am just noticing some crazy bad electronics work... The red stripe on the cable should be pin one, but it's backwards. It hashes at 380 right now... Other boards are really damaged.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Kudos! Better than a poke in the eye and at least something for now.
Did they at least get it right that a cable should lead out from a board and not have to be folded over?

Seriously, no reason aside from in-house profit point for an assembler to not use pre-made ribbon cables or even customs from the likes of Digikey. Dirt cheap...