[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[dEBRUYNE]

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

It's going down with bitcoin unfortunately. I think people might be worried about the sidechains as well. Smooth provided a nice statement about that in another topic.

In the wake of http://www.blockstream.com/ essentially making sidechains an inevitability - what is the point of holding XMR now? Wont all of the privacy Monero offers be available within the bitcoin blockchain?

I think the answer is no. First of all it is questionable whether you would really want to hold wealth long term on a sidechain. The security assumptions (even when it comes to things like network hash rate, but in other more fundamental respects as well) are questionable. It is more plausible you might want to use services or features on a side chain by moving your bitcoins there and then, relatively quickly, moving them back to the more secure main chain. For example, this might be be used for mixing, by moving your coins to a sidechain with ring signatures, transacting and then moving them back.

But this ends up being a lot like using a Bitcoin mixer, with many of the same issues such as simultaneity. For example, imagine you are making a donation to some controversial organization and you want to delink the bitcoins you are donating.

So you go ahead and move your coins to a ring-sig sidechain, move them around a few times, and then move them back. Unless other people are doing this at the same time, when you move your coins back to the main chain, you will get the same coins back that you started with.

Alternately, perhaps the organization wants to be all anonymous and stuff, so it publishes an address on the sidechain, and you donate to them there. They then withdraw the coins back to the main chain, and they get the exact Bitcoins you sent to the side chain.

Obviously if there are a few other people doing the transfers at the same time, there is a degree of mixing, but it is fairly limited.

I don't think a side chain with a specialized purpose can achieve the same degree of anonymity as a coin designed for that purpose, where the entire chain is being mixed and remixed continually. That is an emperical question though. It is possible that a Bitcoin side chain could get more usage and greater trust of its security for long term holdings than Monero will have. More usage would address the mixing issue to a some extent and trust in the security would address the need to constantly move coins back and forth (though there still may be a loss of network effect here). None of this is clear at all.

I also think it is possible the market may simply reject the notion of adopting the Bitcoin currency for everything. It will be an interesting experiment to decouple new features from using a different currency. We may well find that the reason for altcoins is not the features!

[smooth]

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

It's going down with bitcoin unfortunately. I think people might be worried about the sidechains as well.

Oddly though, a lot of other alts are up.

I think we are seeing a realignment of demand for Monero. Most people who already want it at this point have it, so there is limited new demand to absorb the mined coins, until a new equilibrium is reached at a lower price.

Expanding the economy and brining in new users is what is needed. We now at least have one building and role playing game (Crypto Kingdom) that has gotten off to a great start. We need more of this.

[Bassica]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cryptocurrency-round-darkcoin-dark-web-cex-accepts-bitcoin-1471295

Like this?

Is there anyway monero can catch up? Is xmr that much better (more anonymous) than drk that dark web services would switch?

[e-coinomist]

It's going down with bitcoin unfortunately. I think people might be worried about the sidechains as well. Smooth provided a nice statement about that in another topic.

"sidechains" still means ASIC based SHA256² mining which is the only reason I ever dabbled with altcoins.
Before they don't change Bitcoin mining back for ordinary people, I'm just out of Bitcoins, period.

[bigj]

This is so Monero buy time these days!! Simply awesome :-)

[burnbabyburn71]

Monero may not be a pump and dump coin, but there is certainly a lot of dumping going on, and the price is starting to suffer.

the price is down from BOTs

I'm not sure that explains everything, currently the sell side is 280k monero vs 40k monero on the buy side.

Well what's the current incentive to buy Monero right now? Profit? The random huge sell orders make it seem that profit is unlikely which may have contributed to the small about of buy orders. If someone put up some big buy orders to tackle the big sell orders, maybe that would help the situation, but I doubt any one person has enough money to actually have an effect on the market. It would probably work if it was a coordinated effort.

But what I think would really help, is if Monero starts to actually be used for payments. I'm unaware of anything that accepts Monero, that maybe because we need some more marketing. Otherwise there simply aren't enough services that accept XMR. Perhaps services that emphasize anonymity, such as an anonymous VPS service that respects privacy. Maybe this is a bit ambitious but surely they are some other services that would suit XMR well.

Hyping and marketing, getting the general traders aware of what's going on with XMR. Give them a reason to be excited, give them a reason to think that other traders will want to buy into this coin.

Basically:

Problem = not enough people buying Monero causing the price to tank

Solution = get more people to buy Monero

So, I think one way to achieve the solution is to put bounties on specific and decent XMR accepting services. Also maybe bounties for promotions and graphics? I'm not sure, just throwing ideas out there. Its probably not a good idea to just sit a watch the price fall though...

[liteon]

Price is more then funny ... it's sick cheap



 

[novag]

Big dump, and then big pump!

[joebob999]

Lol.  supply and demand people's - no grand conspiracy.

Whales is only why it was ever worth more than .001 at such a young age.  whales give and whales take away.

somebody read about altchains and got scared off.

whales and 20K xmr a day is a bitch peoples o.O

where's the xmr knight in shining armor at?  lol!

Big dump, and then big pump!

ha!  that "dump" was 1 days worth of xmr emissions.  how about big dump, more slow bleeding, bigger dump

[nioc]

In the wake of http://www.blockstream.com/ essentially making sidechains an inevitability - what is the point of holding XMR now? Wont all of the privacy Monero offers be available within the bitcoin blockchain?

how?

As I understand sidechains, you can essentially utilize all of the functionality of an alt while remaining on the bitcoin blockchain. This therefore removes the need for any alt, including Monero.

i see. it is done by hand-waving.

it is a familiar technique, which accomplishes much - but it does not accomplish what you suggest.

Expecting a serious response to a serious question, but I get trolled. If you are looking to instill confidence in Monero this is not the way to go about it.

The benefit of Monero is that all the users are apart of the anonymity set, not just the people on the side chain.

For the side chain to work best, many people would have to keep funds in the side chain for a period of time, the shorter, and the worse the overall anonymity of all users will be.

apart or a part, english be funny

[liteon]

Lol.  supply and demand people's - no grand conspiracy.

Whales is only why it was ever worth more than .001 at such a young age.  whales give and whales take away.

somebody read about altchains and got scared off.

whales and 20K xmr a day is a bitch peoples o.O

where's the xmr knight in shining armor at?  lol!

Big dump, and then big pump!

ha!  that "dump" was 1 days worth of xmr emissions.  how about big dump, more slow bleeding, bigger dump

Are you scared to post from your real profile?
You know, you know pretty much for a newbie.

[bigj]

Big dump, and then big pump!

These very big sells (> 10 BTC), is it some miner dude selling all his coins in packages? Doesn't seem reasonable to sell all these coins at once... a slow going sell procedure usually comes with a higher average price. Weird situation.. who's that dude?

[burnbabyburn71]

Big dump, and then big pump!

These very big sells (> 10 BTC), is it some miner dude selling all his coins in packages? Doesn't seem reasonable to sell all these coins at once... a slow going sell procedure usually comes with a higher average price. Weird situation.. who's that dude?

Maybe whales trying to push the price down to buy cheap coins?

Big sell walls like those are often used to get people to panic sell. In which case some sort of pump is to be expected in the future.

[silencesilence]

someone down the price - many sell orders 9.5


0.00218000   9.5   0.02071
0.00219000   9.5   0.020805
0.00219627   93.33400457   0.20498667
0.00219628   115.81538341   0.25436301
0.00219675   1036.70842435   2.27738923
0.00219700   744.60167468   1.63588988
0.00220000   9.5   0.0209
0.00221000   9.5   0.020995

[nioc]

Yes somebody has been buying 10.0 and selling 9.5 for quite a while now.

[silencesilence]

 

buy order in poloniex

0.00150000   100000   150 BTC

[smooth]

Yes somebody has been buying 10.0 and selling 9.5 for quite a while now.

Doesn't seem like that would hurt the price at all. Must be something else going on.

[btc-mike]

Yes somebody has been buying 10.0 and selling 9.5 for quite a while now.

Doesn't seem like that would hurt the price at all. Must be something else going on.

probably someone playing with a bot

[silencesilence]

probably someone playing with a bot

 

The BOT  is Drunk 

2014-10-23 19:53:12   Sell   0.00215079   0.08637857   0.00018578
2014-10-23 19:53:00   Sell   0.00215077   0.08637857   0.00018578
2014-10-23 19:52:48   Sell   0.00215075   0.08637857   0.00018578
2014-10-23 19:52:37   Sell   0.00215074   0.08637857   0.00018578
2014-10-23 19:52:26   Sell   0.00215072   0.08637857   0.00018578
2014-10-23 19:52:14   Sell   0.00215071   0.08637857   0.00018578
2014-10-23 19:52:03   Sell   0.00215069   0.08637857   0.00018577
2014-10-23 19:51:51   Sell   0.00215067   0.08637857   0.00018577
2014-10-23 19:51:40   Sell   0.00215065   0.08637857   0.00018577
2014-10-23 19:51:29   Sell   0.00215063   0.08637857   0.00018577
2014-10-23 19:51:17   Sell   0.00215061   0.08637857   0.00018577
2014-10-23 19:51:05   Sell   0.00215059   0.08637857   0.00018576
2014-10-23 19:50:53   Sell   0.00215057   0.08637857   0.00018576
2014-10-23 19:50:42   Sell   0.00215055   0.08637857   0.00018576
2014-10-23 19:50:30   Sell   0.00215053   0.08637857   0.00018576
2014-10-23 19:50:19   Sell   0.00215051   0.08637857   0.00018576
2014-10-23 19:50:08   Sell   0.00215049   0.08637857   0.00018576
2014-10-23 19:49:56   Sell   0.00215047   0.08637857   0.00018575
2014-10-23 19:49:44   Sell   0.00215045   0.08637857   0.00018575
2014-10-23 19:49:32   Sell   0.00215043   0.08637857   0.00018575
2014-10-23 19:49:20   Sell   0.00215041   0.08637857   0.00018575
2014-10-23 19:49:08   Sell   0.00215039   0.08637857   0.00018575
2014-10-23 19:48:56   Sell   0.00215037   0.08637857   0.00018575
2014-10-23 19:48:45   Sell   0.00215036   0.08637857   0.00018575
2014-10-23 19:48:33   Sell   0.00215035   0.08637857   0.00018574
2014-10-23 19:48:22   Sell   0.00215033   0.08637857   0.00018574
2014-10-23 19:48:10   Sell   0.00215031   0.08637857   0.00018574
2014-10-23 19:47:58   Sell   0.00215029   0.08637857   0.00018574
2014-10-23 19:47:47   Sell   0.00215027   0.08637857   0.00018574
2014-10-23 19:47:35   Sell   0.00215025   0.08637857   0.00018574

[SmoothCurves]

buy order in poloniex

0.00150000   100000   150 BTC

Risto kept his word. That looks like his wall.