[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[iCEBREAKER]

Hueristic, dEBRUYNE could you deliver this problem to Fluffypony and Monero Core Devs?

Since this attack started in earlier January, NO ONE MONERO CORE DEVS EVER COMMENT THIS. WTF?!

LOL, what do you want, a pre-announcement of centralized checkpoints like Dash's ChainLocks (which won't even go live for another 9-12 months)?

XMR devs have been working on a long-term solution called RandomX, a new PoW that is polymorphic and uses the blockchain for entropy.

Please don't expect Fluffy to set his hair on fire and run around screaming, TYPING IN ALL CAPS LIKE A DRAMA QUEEN, just because the "XTend Hyperminer AMAP is a radically new, programmable digital mining fabric that can mine any coin, or even multiple combinations of coins simultaneously."

Even if Xtend can chew through RandomX like a boss, I'm working something that will break its teeth.

This is just how the dynamic equilibrium of Nakamoto Consensus evolves.  Please don't keep screaming and crying just because we're in one of the periodic recurring 'creative destruction' cycles.  The more non-trivial adversaries attack Monero, the more antifragility accrues and the better our long-term chances of resisting extinction pressure.

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[Xantrax]

What do people think bullet proof and locked ringsize will do for average transaction fees? Any estimates at this point?

[mattcode]

What do people think bullet proof and locked ringsize will do for average transaction fees? Any estimates at this point?

Why estimate it when you can go try it out for yourself?

This random 1-in-2-out transaction has a size of 1.9 kB and a fee of 40 microneroj (about $0.002)

[Millionero]

Do those Chinese farms have any motivation to do a real 51% attack?  I mean double-spends, that sort of thing.  As opposed to making money mining a buttload of xmr, which is fair play.

[dmwardjr]

https://www.prlog.org/12735136-monero-confirms-xtend-onlines-hyperminers-are-berylium-bulletproof.html

What do you think about this? Scam or new technology?

Apart of being this one engine scam or not, there are some new mining equipment on the XMR network obviously:

https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero

They removed auto-calculator to avoid panic, but now Total Network Hashrate = 712 MH/s, Known Pools' Hashrate = 328 MH/s,
so UNKNOWN Hashrate = 384 MH/s = 54% of Total Network Hashrate.

Remember, miner equipment manufacturer NEVER starts to sell miners to public UNTIL they'll become UNPROFITABLE to mine by themselves. So when they start to sell them, you do always lose if buy.

I think their equipment is indeed FPGA-like.

---

I propose new idea to XMR mining algo: to emulate floating point computations of higher precision that is not common in any hardware. We should imagine how to involve a true random NOISE into computations. The way we involve NOISE should meet some requirements, for example, if one doesn't add NOISE, their results should be worse in metrics of hash mined. So FPGA manufacturer must add NOISE in EACH node of its FPGA logic. If so, FPGA will be as effective as GPU, CPU, etc...

I may mistake... above are just free imagines...

I don't understand why MONERO simply switches to PROG PoW.  It puts GPU's, FPGA's and ASIC's all pretty much on an even keel.  FPGA's and ASIC's would only be able to achieve a 1.1 to 1.0 or 1.2 to 1.0 advantage with hash rate/power efficiency.

[PYREXCOIN]

PyrexCoin will follow all Moneros Updates 

[florida.haunted]

Hueristic, dEBRUYNE could you deliver this problem to Fluffypony and Monero Core Devs?

Since this attack started in earlier January, NO ONE MONERO CORE DEVS EVER COMMENT THIS. WTF?!

LOL, what do you want, a pre-announcement of centralized checkpoints like Dash's ChainLocks (which won't even go live for another 9-12 months)?

XMR devs have been working on a long-term solution called RandomX, a new PoW that is polymorphic and uses the blockchain for entropy.

Please don't expect Fluffy to set his hair on fire and run around screaming, TYPING IN ALL CAPS LIKE A DRAMA QUEEN, just because the "XTend Hyperminer AMAP is a radically new, programmable digital mining fabric that can mine any coin, or even multiple combinations of coins simultaneously."

Even if Xtend can chew through RandomX like a boss, I'm working something that will break its teeth.

This is just how the dynamic equilibrium of Nakamoto Consensus evolves.  Please don't keep screaming and crying just because we're in one of the periodic recurring 'creative destruction' cycles.  The more non-trivial adversaries attack Monero, the more antifragility accrues and the better our long-term chances of resisting extinction pressure.

I've read about RandomX a lot.
https://github.com/tevador/RandomX

This mining algorithm looks very promising in order to fight against ASICs and FPGA. But it effectively denies mining on GPU too. So all our honest GPU miners will be abandoned by the XMR community if we accept RandomX algo "as-is" on github.

But indeed, RandomX looks very intriguing. It adds some random info into mining scratch pad to be collected from the blockchain. If I've understand correctly, it is exactly the idea I wrote few days before here...

In order to adopt RandomX to Monero mining,
Can we shrink down a standard RandomX data scratch pad from 4Gb to ~256Mb? So, in the client profile, when  RandomX data scratch is generated on the fly, part-by-part, only 4Mb parts instead of 64Mb should be generated?

I suppose GPU miners could adopt JIT-compiler version of RandomX to GPU mining. Furthermore newbies can play games and mine simultaneously, so this step decreases the threshold for GPU newbies to enter the Monero world, but still VERY resistant to ASICs and FPGA...

[pönde]

This is a good solution to double spend.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/aodbku/proposal_prevent_large_reorgs_from_happening/

Monero nodes should not accept reorgs bigger than 10 blocks. Bigger than that only manual.

[florida.haunted]

This is a good solution to double spend.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/aodbku/proposal_prevent_large_reorgs_from_happening/

Monero nodes should not accept reorgs bigger than 10 blocks. Bigger than that only manual.

Hmm. Can we deny reorgs bigger than 10 blocks unconditionally? Mining is a random process, so it has its distribution in terms of math statistics with mean value for how many blocks need the reorg, and a standard deviation.

Standard deviation can be accumulated and counted by each node, so they can simply rejects each single reorg beyond the 3-sigma rule.

I think, manual API to check blocks beyond 3-sigma threshold proposed is a technical complication and philosophical violation.

[Globb0]

Wasn't dashing in and doing that what f'ed up B Cash ?

[pönde]

This is a good solution to double spend.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/aodbku/proposal_prevent_large_reorgs_from_happening/

Monero nodes should not accept reorgs bigger than 10 blocks. Bigger than that only manual.

Hmm. Can we deny reorgs bigger than 10 blocks unconditionally? Mining is a random process, so it has its distribution in terms of math statistics with mean value for how many blocks need the reorg, and a standard deviation.

Standard deviation can be accumulated and counted by each node, so they can simply rejects each single reorg beyond the 3-sigma rule.

I think, manual API to check blocks beyond 3-sigma threshold proposed is a technical complication and philosophical violation.

That could temporaly solution until algorithm is changed.

[xtomeek]

Guys, what are your thoughts XMR compared to MimbleWimble coins or Nix Platform in term of algo and tech? Nix looks really interesting trying to solve privacy for all coins. MimbleWimble is kind of a hype atm. Do you think monero can sustain it's position in the coming privacy coins environment?

[qwizzie]

I was wondering why iCEBREAKER was trolling again in our Dash ANN thread, i guess this explains it :

Another Hard Fork Coming for Monero [XMR]? Analysis says ASIC Dominates Monero Hashrate
https://coingape.com/asic-dominates-monero-hashrate/

the current network hashrate likely consists of 85.2% ASICs (5400 ASIC machines) and some die-hard GPU miners and botnets.

Icey : next time you feel the need to unload your anxiety and worries, pls grab a stress ball.

To the Monero community : Good luck, personally i'm all for ASIC miners as they strenghten networks against 51% attacks (when they are spread over multiple pools)

[Globb0]

Thanks,

Monero - Instamine scam coin endorsed - Dash.TM!


Will update the marketing appropriately

[qwizzie]

Thanks,

Monero - Premine scam coin endorsed - Dash.TM!


Will update the marketing appropriately

If i could have a Dash for every time someone tries to connect Dash to a premine i would have a few more masternodes.. sighh.
You do know that premine means mining before public launch ? right ?
And you do know that was not the case with Dash ? right ?

Anyways, let me not distract you from your bigger problem : how to deal with ASIC miners that have completely and utterly taken over your network (85.2%).
A network that is suppose to be ASIC free....

[Coindgr]

This post should be about Monero, not Dash, and @qwizzie you're right, it was not premined, it was instamined BIG. There was some discussion what to do with these instamined coins, but Dash dev (Darkcoin at the time) did nothing to solve the issue.

In Monero we're trying not to get centralized mining farms, in order that everyone could mine it, not only the ones with cash to buy some ASIC

[qwizzie]

This post should be about Monero, not Dash, and @qwizzie you're right, it was not premined, it was instamined BIG. There was some discussion what to do with these instamined coins, but Dash dev (Darkcoin at the time) did nothing to solve the issue.

In Monero we're trying not to get centralized mining farms, in order that everyone could mine it, not only the ones with cash to buy some ASIC

You are right, lets keep this about Monero. I'm only interested in the ASIC mining aspect / discussion.

Some see ASIC development as a logical next step in a ongoing hardware evolution within crypto (specifically proof of work crypto).
Kinda like The Borg : highly adaptable and futile to resist...

With regards to centralization : i think that will happen at some point anyways, even with networks with only GPU's.
It will just be in the form of centralized GPU hubs, created by wealthy miners.

[florida.haunted]

You are right, lets keep this about Monero. I'm only interested in the ASIC mining aspect / discussion.

Some see ASIC development as a logical next step in a ongoing hardware evolution within crypto (specifically proof of work crypto).
Kinda like The Borg : highly adaptable and futile to resist...

With regards to centralization : i think that will happen at some point anyways, even with networks with only GPU's.
It will just be in the form of centralized GPU hubs, created by wealthy miners.

There are fundamentally different kinds of centralization. ASICs are extremely special hardware, and their manufacturers NEVER sell them while the mining process by their own ASICs is profitable. So, actual degree of centralization equals to number of ASIC manufacturers in this case. Furthermore, because ASIC manufacturing is a very narrow niche, typically just One ASIC manufacturer of ASICs, designed for specific mining algorithm, remains on the market after short competition wars. Thus degree of centralization become One. Might you know, Bitcoin is heavily centralized, because number of Bitcoin ASICs manufacturers (that ASICs are still effective for mining against current price) ~ 1.

We, the Monero community, the Ethereum community, and many other coins' communities, DENY such a degree of centralization. We want every single man can enter the mining market with relatively cheap COMMON equipment to be bought in almost ANY local store right now. Today, common equipment is CPU and GPU. That's all.

Of course, low degree of centralization will take place with common equipment too. But the nature of this centralization is conceptually different. That degree depends on (and only on) the Free Desire of Every Single Man to buy COMMON equipment in ANY local store and point it to mine Monero. Historically, before ASICs came to the scene, Monero mining was one of the most DEcentralized among all cryptocurrencies. There are many surveys one can google for.

So, "the form of centralized GPU hubs, created by wealthy miners", as you wrote, has much less fundamental kind of centralization than ASIC-based approach.

[Rabinovitch]

Beware of scammers!



p.s. please Monero team clean up the forum getmonero.org. I believe we can find even penis enlargement techniques there...

[mattcode]

p.s. please Monero team clean up the forum getmonero.org. I believe we can find even penis enlargement techniques there...

I believe the forum is going into a read-only mode soon, and then deleted completely shortly after that.