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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4648792 times)
florida.haunted
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February 01, 2019, 08:44:23 AM
Last edit: February 01, 2019, 09:03:12 AM by florida.haunted
 #40401

^This is a terrible idea that completely centralizes the network. You can't avoid FPGAs or ASICs forever, they're just another form of computer, albeit a bit less generalized. You can't keep hard forking every six months forever, it introduces centralization and uncertainty in the network/protocol. At some point, hopefully soon, Monero will stop running from this issue and just switch to a proof of work that isn't a pita to verify on low end general purpose consumer hardware and live with FPGAs and/or ASICs.

Official position of Monero Community is to keep entrance threshold level for new miners LOW, furthermore Monero Community does declare, apparently and specially, to resist ASICs, FPGA and any type of NON-COMMON hardware, i.e. hardware that is not available in the local stores of most countries.

Recently, Ethereum Community join to Monero Community's fundamental principals to be ASICs, FPGA and NON-COMMON hardware resistant.

The situation with ASICs in Bitcoin world is much more centralized, because ASICs are very specific hardware. Currently only one company produces most of Bitcoin ASICs. And of course there is no company that manufactures ASICs or FPGA (specially designed for crypto-mining like http://squirrelsresearch.com/cvp-13/) that will start to sell its NON-COMMON hardware while it is profitable for mining. Any company ALWAYS mines silently by its chips to its own profit and sell them when only they become UNPROFITABLE for mining.

(PoS had been recognized by Monero Community as a strong unacceptable centralization too)

If you disagree with official Monero Community, feel free to use a lot of Monero forks that are unresistant to ASICs & FPGA.

P.S. What about the idea of formal pool registration on the Monero blockchain & sign each mined block by pool's signature. It does not violate the anonymity of a pool ownner. It PREVENTs centralization by rejecting a block candidate mined by a pool close to 51% in hashrate of total network. Any volunteer CAN register new pool by automatic payment a fee to the blockchain and meet formal verification like pool is publically available and has good enough formal rating voted on the blockchain too.

P.P.S. the idea of formal pool registration has unique new attribute that is unavailable for any other crypto: Formal Trusted Mining Infrastructure, 51%-Resistant, Entirely Resides On Blockchain.
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jwinterm
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February 01, 2019, 01:58:49 PM
 #40402

^This is a terrible idea that completely centralizes the network. You can't avoid FPGAs or ASICs forever, they're just another form of computer, albeit a bit less generalized. You can't keep hard forking every six months forever, it introduces centralization and uncertainty in the network/protocol. At some point, hopefully soon, Monero will stop running from this issue and just switch to a proof of work that isn't a pita to verify on low end general purpose consumer hardware and live with FPGAs and/or ASICs.

Official position of Monero Community is to keep entrance threshold level for new miners LOW, furthermore Monero Community does declare, apparently and specially, to resist ASICs, FPGA and any type of NON-COMMON hardware, i.e. hardware that is not available in the local stores of most countries.

Recently, Ethereum Community join to Monero Community's fundamental principals to be ASICs, FPGA and NON-COMMON hardware resistant.

The situation with ASICs in Bitcoin world is much more centralized, because ASICs are very specific hardware. Currently only one company produces most of Bitcoin ASICs. And of course there is no company that manufactures ASICs or FPGA (specially designed for crypto-mining like http://squirrelsresearch.com/cvp-13/) that will start to sell its NON-COMMON hardware while it is profitable for mining. Any company ALWAYS mines silently by its chips to its own profit and sell them when only they become UNPROFITABLE for mining.

(PoS had been recognized by Monero Community as a strong unacceptable centralization too)

If you disagree with official Monero Community, feel free to use a lot of Monero forks that are unresistant to ASICs & FPGA.

P.S. What about the idea of formal pool registration on the Monero blockchain & sign each mined block by pool's signature. It does not violate the anonymity of a pool ownner. It PREVENTs centralization by rejecting a block candidate mined by a pool close to 51% in hashrate of total network. Any volunteer CAN register new pool by automatic payment a fee to the blockchain and meet formal verification like pool is publically available and has good enough formal rating voted on the blockchain too.

P.P.S. the idea of formal pool registration has unique new attribute that is unavailable for any other crypto: Formal Trusted Mining Infrastructure, 51%-Resistant, Entirely Resides On Blockchain.

What part of "formal" and "official" do you not see as completely centralized? Cause it seems totally centralized to me.

I do disagree with "official Monero Community". Am I going to be officially excommunicated and blacklisted from using the network into perpetuity now?

Also, as to your idea - why couldn't a pool with 51+% of total hash just register multiple addresses and divide it's hashrate among them? Then it could do whatever it was going to do as an apparent single entity but split its hash among its own multiple pools/addresses. Maybe if there was also some component of neural networks with blockchain AI they could recognize this and ban all the offending pools and miners from the network forever.
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February 01, 2019, 02:25:01 PM
 #40403

New Monero Forum Funding System is expected to go live in a few days, check tweet for more
https://twitter.com/JEhrenhofer/status/1089600244021686277?fbclid=IwAR1aPws2IHOVG70VQjJZegh-NpOAXYLYsOsRSlTDvKTVuV0EDD5lsewwqqc

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Hueristic
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February 01, 2019, 03:55:00 PM
 #40404

Also, as to your idea - why couldn't a pool with 51+% of total hash just register multiple addresses and divide it's hashrate among them? Then it could do whatever it was going to do as an apparent single entity but split its hash among its own multiple pools/addresses. Maybe if there was also some component of neural networks with blockchain AI they could recognize this and ban all the offending pools and miners from the network forever.

We do continually hear these half baked type ideas thrown about and not just from the uniformed. It should be recognized that this is also a social attack vector that needs to be safe guarded, continual change opens the chance of slipping in seeemingly innocuous poisoned code.

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
Globb0
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February 01, 2019, 04:26:50 PM
 #40405

ASICS are diversifying in the daddy coin, with the maturity.

No longer a 1 player monopoly of mining.

If you keep it working on home architecture instead, you don't really change much.

It will still be the one who can spend the most on computer equipment that will win most.




Hueristic
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February 01, 2019, 04:34:37 PM
 #40406

ASICS are diversifying in the daddy coin, with the maturity.

No longer a 1 player monopoly of mining.

If you keep it working on home architecture instead, you don't really change much.

It will still be the one who can spend the most on computer equipment that will win most.

It's all about the security of the chain.

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
dEBRUYNE
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February 02, 2019, 01:18:30 PM
Last edit: February 02, 2019, 03:00:58 PM by dEBRUYNE
 #40407

Monero added to Exodus Eden version 19.2.2

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/amcemx/youve_been_asking_we_finally_delivered_xmr_is/

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
forevernoob
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February 02, 2019, 10:20:11 PM
 #40408

Will there be a Super Bowl betting pool like last year?

I'm down. Anyone else up for it? 1 XMR buy in?

You know I am Cheesy

Whoever wants to set up something can, if I get a break from work I’ll create a thread for it.  Just to clarify... we are talking about squares, right?

Did you create a thread? We still have some time before the game..

owlcatz
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February 03, 2019, 05:13:12 AM
 #40409

Did you create a thread? We still have some time before the game..

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103532.msg49476986#msg49476986

Andromedus44
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February 03, 2019, 06:14:32 AM
 #40410

with monero being anonymous, do they get in trouble from governments? How have they not shut it down? i'm all for it but i'm just curious how they have circumvented that?
Globb0
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February 03, 2019, 07:56:21 AM
 #40411

What shall "they" (who?) do?

Shut down the earths electricity?

lobcmt2
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February 03, 2019, 09:08:17 AM
 #40412

What shall "they" (who?) do?

Shut down the earths electricity?


Stop providing electricity supply to households/ farms which mine crypto currencies, including Monero.
I am not sure, but it is likely what that guys waited for.
It is a unrealistic thing, in my opinion.
And, if someday, Monero network switchs to PoS/ Masternodes or service nodes, it's become harder to restrict / shut down Monero network.

Andromedus44
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February 03, 2019, 06:20:02 PM
 #40413

What shall "they" (who?) do?

Shut down the earths electricity?



not neccesarily that, i mean they (goverments) could do that to certain jurisdictions if they wanted to, I just wasn't sure if they could go after the team if they really wanted to? I'm all for anonymous transactions, I just wasn't sure if there is a chance that governments turn against it?
Globb0
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February 03, 2019, 07:38:53 PM
 #40414

We are all satoshi

Millionero
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February 04, 2019, 04:40:04 AM
 #40415

they could go after the team
If you mean law enforcement, then no.  The "team" hasn't committed any crimes, so far as I'm aware.
Unless being a fluffypony is a crime.  Hmm...  maybe you're onto something after all.
stolarzz
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February 04, 2019, 06:42:30 AM
 #40416

https://www.prlog.org/12735136-monero-confirms-xtend-onlines-hyperminers-are-berylium-bulletproof.html

What do you think about this? Scam or new technology? Smiley
florida.haunted
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February 05, 2019, 05:10:01 PM
 #40417


Apart of being this one engine scam or not, there are some new mining equipment on the XMR network obviously:

https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero

They removed auto-calculator to avoid panic, but now Total Network Hashrate = 712 MH/s, Known Pools' Hashrate = 328 MH/s,
so UNKNOWN Hashrate = 384 MH/s = 54% of Total Network Hashrate.

Remember, miner equipment manufacturer NEVER starts to sell miners to public UNTIL they'll become UNPROFITABLE to mine by themselves. So when they start to sell them, you do always lose if buy.

I think their equipment is indeed FPGA-like.

---

I propose new idea to XMR mining algo: to emulate floating point computations of higher precision that is not common in any hardware. We should imagine how to involve a true random NOISE into computations. The way we involve NOISE should meet some requirements, for example, if one doesn't add NOISE, their results should be worse in metrics of hash mined. So FPGA manufacturer must add NOISE in EACH node of its FPGA logic. If so, FPGA will be as effective as GPU, CPU, etc...

I may mistake... above are just free imagines...
CryptAtomeTrader44
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February 05, 2019, 09:21:59 PM
 #40418

I'm just a small GPU XMR miner since several month, and the last time I saw such a strong rise in hashrate was when bitmain mined  in secret with theirs asics only known by them.

It seems that they are re-offending.

In less than 48 hours 60% of the hashrate is unknown ! Houston, we have a problem  Shocked Sad Undecided
The hashrate has more than doubled in less than two weeks!

Something is happening. Either a 51% attack occurs, or specific asics are minning on the network recently.

Is it that the most seasoned supervisors of the monero blockchain can confirm or deny what appears to be an attack ?

Sorry for my English translated with google translate.
florida.haunted
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February 06, 2019, 08:36:59 AM
 #40419

I'm just a small GPU XMR miner since several month, and the last time I saw such a strong rise in hashrate was when bitmain mined  in secret with theirs asics only known by them.

It seems that they are re-offending.

In less than 48 hours 60% of the hashrate is unknown ! Houston, we have a problem  Shocked Sad Undecided
The hashrate has more than doubled in less than two weeks!

Something is happening. Either a 51% attack occurs, or specific asics are minning on the network recently.

Is it that the most seasoned supervisors of the monero blockchain can confirm or deny what appears to be an attack ?

Sorry for my English translated with google translate.

Yes this is an attack. It is not so important whether this attack has 51% nature or not. This is a new era of hybrid ASIC/FPGA attack:
https://www.prlog.org/12735136-monero-confirms-xtend-onlines-hyperminers-are-berylium-bulletproof.html
or
http://squirrelsresearch.com/cvp-13/

TODAY:
https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero

804 MH/s Total, 340 Known, 464 UNKNOWN.

Hueristic, dEBRUYNE could you deliver this problem to Fluffypony and Monero Core Devs?

Since this attack started in earlier January, NO ONE MONERO CORE DEVS EVER COMMENT THIS. WTF?!
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February 07, 2019, 01:39:03 AM
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 #40420

Hueristic, dEBRUYNE could you deliver this problem to Fluffypony and Monero Core Devs?

Since this attack started in earlier January, NO ONE MONERO CORE DEVS EVER COMMENT THIS. WTF?!

LOL, what do you want, a pre-announcement of centralized checkpoints like Dash's ChainLocks (which won't even go live for another 9-12 months)? Grin

XMR devs have been working on a long-term solution called RandomX, a new PoW that is polymorphic and uses the blockchain for entropy.

Please don't expect Fluffy to set his hair on fire and run around screaming, TYPING IN ALL CAPS LIKE A DRAMA QUEEN, just because the "XTend Hyperminer AMAP is a radically new, programmable digital mining fabric that can mine any coin, or even multiple combinations of coins simultaneously."

Even if Xtend can chew through RandomX like a boss, I'm working something that will break its teeth. Wink

This is just how the dynamic equilibrium of Nakamoto Consensus evolves.  Please don't keep screaming and crying just because we're in one of the periodic recurring 'creative destruction' cycles.  The more non-trivial adversaries attack Monero, the more antifragility accrues and the better our long-term chances of resisting extinction pressure.


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