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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4560707 times)
GBattaglia
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October 25, 2014, 03:09:29 PM
 #16081

Monero was worth roughly $2.20 not all that long ago, and now it is worth less than $.70.
Those who invested $2000 in your project here in the past few months now only have about $600 in investment value.
While I agree with people saying it isn't the devs job necessarily to maintain the price of a currency, I can't say these
facts should just be ignored.

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bigj
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October 25, 2014, 03:35:56 PM
 #16082

It's like an early Xmas! Moneros almost for free!! Buy now, be happy later :-) I cant stop buying!
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October 25, 2014, 03:43:56 PM
 #16083

Does this really set Monero apart from other anon cryptocurrencies though? Both Monero and other anon cryptocurrencies ultimately do the same thing, transfer value anonymously, unless I'm mistaken. Also, Monero wasn't the first to do this so it doesn't get the advantage of being first like Bitcoin does.
What other coins offer anonymous transactions outside of cryptonotes? All I see are promises to implement something in the future, except for anoncoin, and their implementation seems to getting some pointed critiques. You're correct that Monero wasn't the first, Bytecoin was the first, but they had an effective 80%+ premine, making bitmonero/monero the first fairly launched and de facto first anonymous cryptocurrency, unless I'm mistaken.

What about Darkcoin and Stealthcoin? Those are just two off the top of my head but I thought they had managed to achieve anonymity?


As someone pointed out above, Darkcoin relies on masternodes to perform mixing. As they said, I don't think this technology has been reviewed by actual cryptographers, and another thing is this semi-centralized system puts forth an attack vector for malicious actors to focus their efforts on.

I don't think Stealthcoin has actually implemented any real anonymous transactions. They were talking about using chandran signatures, but that seems to have been shot down by some people as not workable in the form they initially proposed.
GBattaglia
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October 25, 2014, 04:46:11 PM
 #16084

It's like an early Xmas! Moneros almost for free!! Buy now, be happy later :-) I cant stop buying!


People have been saying that regarding BTC since it was sub $600 I think.
bigj
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October 25, 2014, 05:01:17 PM
 #16085

It's like an early Xmas! Moneros almost for free!! Buy now, be happy later :-) I cant stop buying!


People have been saying that regarding BTC since it was sub $600 I think.

And if they were to buy coins every couple of days/weeks or so, they would be perfectly fine on average.
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October 25, 2014, 05:03:00 PM
 #16086

It's like an early Xmas! Moneros almost for free!! Buy now, be happy later :-) I cant stop buying!


People have been saying that regarding BTC since it was sub $600 I think.

And if they were to buy coins every 3 weeks, they would be perfectly fine on average.


How can you say that? If you were buying Monero every three weeks since the past few months when the price dipped below $2 you would be currently
out a large portion of your investment. Monero has not experienced a price spike and dump during this time, it has been quite consistently falling, much like BTC.
rpietila
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October 25, 2014, 05:26:59 PM
 #16087

since the past few months

Anything less than 3 years to measure success just wastes your time and gives bad results
Come-In-Behind
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October 25, 2014, 05:38:00 PM
 #16088

It's like an early Xmas! Moneros almost for free!! Buy now, be happy later :-) I cant stop buying!


People have been saying that regarding BTC since it was sub $600 I think.

And if they were to buy coins every 3 weeks, they would be perfectly fine on average.


How can you say that? If you were buying Monero every three weeks since the past few months when the price dipped below $2 you would be currently
out a large portion of your investment. Monero has not experienced a price spike and dump during this time, it has been quite consistently falling, much like BTC.

I realized this too, it's basically doing the same as BTC on it's up/downtrends. Which is a good thing(incase another btc runup happens like this May)
eXe47
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October 25, 2014, 05:54:43 PM
 #16089

Does this really set Monero apart from other anon cryptocurrencies though? Both Monero and other anon cryptocurrencies ultimately do the same thing, transfer value anonymously, unless I'm mistaken. Also, Monero wasn't the first to do this so it doesn't get the advantage of being first like Bitcoin does.
What other coins offer anonymous transactions outside of cryptonotes? All I see are promises to implement something in the future, except for anoncoin, and their implementation seems to getting some pointed critiques. You're correct that Monero wasn't the first, Bytecoin was the first, but they had an effective 80%+ premine, making bitmonero/monero the first fairly launched and de facto first anonymous cryptocurrency, unless I'm mistaken.

What about Darkcoin and Stealthcoin? Those are just two off the top of my head but I thought they had managed to achieve anonymity?


As someone pointed out above, Darkcoin relies on masternodes to perform mixing. As they said, I don't think this technology has been reviewed by actual cryptographers, and another thing is this semi-centralized system puts forth an attack vector for malicious actors to focus their efforts on.

I don't think Stealthcoin has actually implemented any real anonymous transactions. They were talking about using chandran signatures, but that seems to have been shot down by some people as not workable in the form they initially proposed.


Actually Supercoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736705.0) managed it. 
It's kind of a funny & sad story. The technology is there but marketing and communication from the dev side failed completely...

Well, its about more than just advanced technology, Supercoin is currently looking for qualified Devs/Team to take over the project.... if on of you guys is interested Smiley
jwinterm
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October 25, 2014, 06:04:55 PM
 #16090

Does this really set Monero apart from other anon cryptocurrencies though? Both Monero and other anon cryptocurrencies ultimately do the same thing, transfer value anonymously, unless I'm mistaken. Also, Monero wasn't the first to do this so it doesn't get the advantage of being first like Bitcoin does.
What other coins offer anonymous transactions outside of cryptonotes? All I see are promises to implement something in the future, except for anoncoin, and their implementation seems to getting some pointed critiques. You're correct that Monero wasn't the first, Bytecoin was the first, but they had an effective 80%+ premine, making bitmonero/monero the first fairly launched and de facto first anonymous cryptocurrency, unless I'm mistaken.

What about Darkcoin and Stealthcoin? Those are just two off the top of my head but I thought they had managed to achieve anonymity?


As someone pointed out above, Darkcoin relies on masternodes to perform mixing. As they said, I don't think this technology has been reviewed by actual cryptographers, and another thing is this semi-centralized system puts forth an attack vector for malicious actors to focus their efforts on.

I don't think Stealthcoin has actually implemented any real anonymous transactions. They were talking about using chandran signatures, but that seems to have been shot down by some people as not workable in the form they initially proposed.


Actually Supercoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=736705.0) managed it. 
It's kind of a funny & sad story. The technology is there but marketing and communication from the dev side failed completely...

Well, its about more than just advanced technology, Supercoin is currently looking for qualified Devs/Team to take over the project.... if on of you guys is interested Smiley

Based on your link the anonymous send version of Supercoin is still closed source. How can anyone evaluate the technology if the devs are unwilling to show their code?
Zabaglione
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October 25, 2014, 06:26:04 PM
 #16091

Monero was worth roughly $2.20 not all that long ago, and now it is worth less than $.70.
Those who invested $2000 in your project here in the past few months now only have about $600 in investment value.
While I agree with people saying it isn't the devs job necessarily to maintain the price of a currency, I can't say these
facts should just be ignored.

Why is the price falling so much though? Mining reward is too high? I thought I read somewhere about mining botnets making up a large portion of the net hash rate of Monero, and the operators dump the Monero for BTC causing huge sell pressure.

For whatever reason its falling, isn't the price fall a serious problem? At this rate Monero will literally be worthless soon wouldn't it?
shojayxt
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October 25, 2014, 06:31:58 PM
 #16092

since the past few months

Anything less than 3 years to measure success just wastes your time and gives bad results

I disagree.  It might have taken bitcoin years before it had any value but the landscape has changed.  Three years to measure success is ridiculous.  Cryptocurrencies are no longer just some geeky experiment like bitcoin was when it started.  The foundation has been poured.  Those building on that foundation will need to move quickly or get left behind.  Bitcoins history is just that.  To be successful going forward, a cryptocurrency will need to rapidly deploy features people want, create an infrastructure that will support it, and users willing to adopt it.  If a currency doesn't accomplish those things it will go nowhere.

I think one of the reasons for the exodus out of altcoins is that people have been speculating on the next bitcoin.  It's become apparent to many that the majority of all altcoins are just quick schemes to make money.  They all promise this and that, new features coming, etc...  None of the promises have come true.  None of the altcoins have succeeded in gaining any significant adoption and most likely none of them will.

If any cryptocurrency wants to be around in three years then it needs to offer something people want and it needs to offer it now.  If it doesn't it won't be around in three years, monero included.

Telling people it might take three years is like shooting yourself in the foot.  People aren't going to do that.  They are already losing patience as proven by the recent selling.  People want results now.  That's just a fact of life.

      
smooth
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October 25, 2014, 06:35:16 PM
 #16093

Monero was worth roughly $2.20 not all that long ago, and now it is worth less than $.70.
Those who invested $2000 in your project here in the past few months now only have about $600 in investment value.
While I agree with people saying it isn't the devs job necessarily to maintain the price of a currency, I can't say these
facts should just be ignored.

Why is the price falling so much though? Mining reward is too high? I thought I read somewhere about mining botnets making up a large portion of the net hash rate of Monero, and the operators dump the Monero for BTC causing huge sell pressure.

For whatever reason its falling, isn't the price fall a serious problem? At this rate Monero will literally be worthless soon wouldn't it?

Take a look around. We're #12 on coinmarketcap which is right were we've been for months (in the #10-15 range).

bigj
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October 25, 2014, 06:35:58 PM
 #16094

since the past few months

Anything less than 3 years to measure success just wastes your time and gives bad results

I disagree.  It might have taken bitcoin years before it had any value but the landscape has changed.  Three years to measure success is ridiculous.  Cryptocurrencies are no longer just some geeky experiment like bitcoin was when it started.  The foundation has been poured.  Those building on that foundation will need to move quickly or get left behind.  Bitcoins history is just that.  To be successful going forward, a cryptocurrency will need to rapidly deploy features people want, create an infrastructure that will support it, and users willing to adopt it.  If a currency doesn't accomplish those things it will go nowhere.

I think one of the reasons for the exodus out of altcoins is that people have been speculating on the next bitcoin.  It's become apparent to many that the majority of all altcoins are just quick schemes to make money.  They all promise this and that, new features coming, etc...  None of the promises have come true.  None of the altcoins have succeeded in gaining any significant adoption and most likely none of them will.

If any cryptocurrency wants to be around in three years then it needs to offer something people want and it needs to offer it now.  If it doesn't it won't be around in three years, monero included.

Telling people it might take three years is like shooting yourself in the foot.  People aren't going to do that.  They are already losing patience as proven by the recent selling.  People want results now.  That's just a fact of life.

      

Why are human always acting almost irrational when it comes to economics?
smooth
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October 25, 2014, 06:42:33 PM
 #16095

since the past few months

Anything less than 3 years to measure success just wastes your time and gives bad results

I disagree.  It might have taken bitcoin years before it had any value but the landscape has changed.  Three years to measure success is ridiculous.  Cryptocurrencies are no longer just some geeky experiment like bitcoin was when it started.  The foundation has been poured.  Those building on that foundation will need to move quickly or get left behind.  Bitcoins history is just that.  To be successful going forward, a cryptocurrency will need to rapidly deploy features people want, create an infrastructure that will support it, and users willing to adopt it.  If a currency doesn't accomplish those things it will go nowhere.

I think one of the reasons for the exodus out of altcoins is that people have been speculating on the next bitcoin.  It's become apparent to many that the majority of all altcoins are just quick schemes to make money.  They all promise this and that, new features coming, etc...  None of the promises have come true.  None of the altcoins have succeeded in gaining any significant adoption and most likely none of them will.

If any cryptocurrency wants to be around in three years then it needs to offer something people want and it needs to offer it now.  If it doesn't it won't be around in three years, monero included.

Telling people it might take three years is like shooting yourself in the foot.  People aren't going to do that.  They are already losing patience as proven by the recent selling.  People want results now.  That's just a fact of life.

      

Why are human always acting almost irrational when it comes to economics?

Because human beings are not (entirely) rational?

shojayxt
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October 25, 2014, 06:47:38 PM
 #16096

since the past few months

Anything less than 3 years to measure success just wastes your time and gives bad results

I disagree.  It might have taken bitcoin years before it had any value but the landscape has changed.  Three years to measure success is ridiculous.  Cryptocurrencies are no longer just some geeky experiment like bitcoin was when it started.  The foundation has been poured.  Those building on that foundation will need to move quickly or get left behind.  Bitcoins history is just that.  To be successful going forward, a cryptocurrency will need to rapidly deploy features people want, create an infrastructure that will support it, and users willing to adopt it.  If a currency doesn't accomplish those things it will go nowhere.

I think one of the reasons for the exodus out of altcoins is that people have been speculating on the next bitcoin.  It's become apparent to many that the majority of all altcoins are just quick schemes to make money.  They all promise this and that, new features coming, etc...  None of the promises have come true.  None of the altcoins have succeeded in gaining any significant adoption and most likely none of them will.

If any cryptocurrency wants to be around in three years then it needs to offer something people want and it needs to offer it now.  If it doesn't it won't be around in three years, monero included.

Telling people it might take three years is like shooting yourself in the foot.  People aren't going to do that.  They are already losing patience as proven by the recent selling.  People want results now.  That's just a fact of life.

      

Why are human always acting almost irrational when it comes to economics?


Humans are irrational.  But in this case it's warranted.

I forgot to add this in my previous post.

When I first got involved in crypto there were 69 currencies listed on coinmarketcap with a total market cap of $ 13,890,378,655  https://web.archive.org/web/20140104141936/http://coinmarketcap.com/

There are now 545 currencies with a market cap of $ 5,192,835,057.

789% more currencies worth 37% of what 69 were worth January 8th 2014.

All of these currencies offered the moon but delivered nothing.  Why should people think any different of Monero or any other coin?  One thing is for sure, nobody's going to wait three years.




rpietila
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October 25, 2014, 06:48:00 PM
 #16097

If any cryptocurrency wants to be around in three years then it needs to offer something people want and it needs to offer it now.  If it doesn't it won't be around in three years, monero included.

Telling people it might take three years is like shooting yourself in the foot.  People aren't going to do that.  They are already losing patience as proven by the recent selling.  People want results now.  That's just a fact of life.

Monero is currently almost exclusively owned by people with a horizon of 3 years or more, as was Bitcoin 3 years ago.

Last time the owners were richly rewarded, let's see this time.
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October 25, 2014, 06:53:32 PM
 #16098

Monero was worth roughly $2.20 not all that long ago, and now it is worth less than $.70.
Those who invested $2000 in your project here in the past few months now only have about $600 in investment value.
While I agree with people saying it isn't the devs job necessarily to maintain the price of a currency, I can't say these
facts should just be ignored.

Why is the price falling so much though? Mining reward is too high? I thought I read somewhere about mining botnets making up a large portion of the net hash rate of Monero, and the operators dump the Monero for BTC causing huge sell pressure.

For whatever reason its falling, isn't the price fall a serious problem? At this rate Monero will literally be worthless soon wouldn't it?

Take a look around. We're #12 on coinmarketcap which is right were we've been for months (in the #10-15 range).
Does that mean that all cryptocurrencies are falling in value? Why isn't Monero ahead of Darkcoin?
TheKoziTwo
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October 25, 2014, 06:53:36 PM
 #16099

Monero was worth roughly $2.20 not all that long ago, and now it is worth less than $.70.
Those who invested $2000 in your project here in the past few months now only have about $600 in investment value.
While I agree with people saying it isn't the devs job necessarily to maintain the price of a currency, I can't say these
facts should just be ignored.

Why is the price falling so much though? Mining reward is too high? I thought I read somewhere about mining botnets making up a large portion of the net hash rate of Monero, and the operators dump the Monero for BTC causing huge sell pressure.

For whatever reason its falling, isn't the price fall a serious problem? At this rate Monero will literally be worthless soon wouldn't it?
In the beginning there was not a lot of monero and demand was super high. New exciting technology that actually has merit is not something you see every day in the pump n dump altcoin space. Naturally it became very sought after by people, especially by large bitcoiners who previously may not have shown much interest in altcoins.

They are first and foremost investing in monero because they believe in the new and unique technology. The problem is, everybody wanted to grab a piece of the pie at once and thus the price was pushed high, probably too high, it lasted temporarily because large holders eventually had accumulated the moneros they wanted. A trend reversal combined with reality setting in (there are ~20k XMR generated every day) means the high price could not be sustained at this time. The adoption is not big enough and large bitcoiners can only sustain the price for so long. Now that the initial gold rush is over I speculate that many hold large bags of monero, and most are probably in the red too. Little willingness to invest more when already down a lot, so who will absorb the new coins?

You see, the emission is very high, and it makes it difficult for monero to rally high and stay there. There is simply too much pressure at this time. The only way to change that is to increase adoption or make current holders invest more. Another solution that has been suggested for voting is changing emission to make the coins spread out over a longer period of time. That will put less pressure on the price in regards to mined coins, however there are other issues with doing so which must be contemplated.

Personally I see any sub 0.002 as a good entry point. I have been buying a little all the way down and intend to continue to do so. It's hard to predict the bottom, but there are certainly things planned which can trigger new interest. Every coin has up and downs, make sure to take advantage of each.  Smiley

shojayxt
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October 25, 2014, 06:58:09 PM
 #16100

If any cryptocurrency wants to be around in three years then it needs to offer something people want and it needs to offer it now.  If it doesn't it won't be around in three years, monero included.

Telling people it might take three years is like shooting yourself in the foot.  People aren't going to do that.  They are already losing patience as proven by the recent selling.  People want results now.  That's just a fact of life.

Monero is currently almost exclusively owned by people with a horizon of 3 years or more, as was Bitcoin 3 years ago.

Last time the owners were richly rewarded, let's see this time.

It is?  Then why all the selling and people complaining about the price?


If you use the history of bitcoin to justify holding any new cryptocurrency you'll end up holding worthless coins in three years.  What worked for bitcoin or the history of bitcoin will never be repeated.  But good luck.

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