[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"

[BayAreaCoins]

As smooth said earlier, the best approach to this is to select a block in the future. It is the only fair compromise. Whether it happen 100 or 1000 blocks from now, it will allow investors to secure their positions with the NewCoin or CLAM. Because picking an older block will ONLY be fair to the insiders.

I'm pretty sure I said well in the future. People don't necessarily sign on every day or even every few days. Give them some time to learn about what is going to happen and decide what if any actions they want to take.

Yeah, that would be the fairest solution.
I mean I bought CLAMs for 50 BTC (I didn't even expect someone to dump into my order which was place 40% below the current price).
Then, a few seconds later I learned in the "trollbox" that I was essentially screwed like an idiot, because the block 730000 already has passed.

Luckily I could silently dump those tokens again over the day.

Perhaps you could write Poloniex and get the trade reversed like the Winklevoss exchange did the other day.

They should be aware of what's going on with this monster swings primarly pushed by them... seems like a decent bit of fuckery.

[randayh]

so basically the clam as we know it has no value as block 730000 already has passed for any conversion?

[doothewop]

so basically the clam as we know it has no value as block 730000 already has passed for any conversion?

That's what you glean from these hundreds of pages of posts?  Maybe go back and read again.

[nickhiggins123]

We want doogcoin!

[randayh]

We want doogcoin!

doogcoin or dogecoin?

[cryptoPrecise]

so basically the clam as we know it has no value as block 730000 already has passed for any conversion?

I am pretty sure dooglus will go with a future block as he wants the best for the community and exchanges will soon come up with a statement to clear everything.

[Gladimor]

Realistically, who will invest into NewCoin? The only currency I see of value here is CLAM.

If NewCoin's distribution is gauged pre-block 730,000, the only people that will be interested will be the insiders. Any other investors that had their coins before 730,000 will probably liquidate all of their stock of NewCoin on an exchange, and buy-back into CLAMs. It will be a community divided, with the majority on the side of CLAM.

If NewCoin wants any chance at succeeding, they should gauge distribution at a FUTURE block (eg; block 900,000). This will give enough time for people to decide whether to be a part of the NewCoin community or not, and buy in accordingly. Right now, all I see are a bunch of insiders that probably bought a bunch of coins a month ago and chose a block around that time, and announce it to us now.

If the creator of NewCoin TRULY wishes the best for the community and the success of his coin, he will have to go with a future block.

[gamblingbad]

Realistically, who will invest into NewCoin? The only currency I see of value here is CLAM.

If NewCoin's distribution is gauged pre-block 730,000, the only people that will be interested will be the insiders. Any other investors that had their coins before 730,000 will probably liquidate all of their stock of NewCoin on an exchange, and buy-back into CLAMs. It will be a community divided, with the majority on the side of CLAM.

If NewCoin wants any chance at succeeding, they should gauge distribution at a FUTURE block (eg; block 900,000). This will give enough time for people to decide whether to be a part of the NewCoin community or not, and buy in accordingly. Right now, all I see are a bunch of insiders that probably bought a bunch of coins a month ago and chose a block around that time, and announce it to us now.

If the creator of NewCoin TRULY wishes the best for the community and the success of his coin, he will have to go with a future block.

You mistake clam value for just dice value.

[whywetrance]

OldMankidd over at Polo just said this in response to "have you checked out the Clamcoin Ann?"

OldManKidd: whywetrance, not really .. the box has been talking about it.. it seems there is a proposal but until the devs contact us about any changes there are none

[randayh]

so basically the clam as we know it has no value as block 730000 already has passed for any conversion?

I am pretty sure dooglus will go with a future block as he wants the best for the community and exchanges will soon come up with a statement to clear everything.

So if a future block is decided then there will be hoarding then dumpage of the original clams after the block has passed. But then a buyback of clams after the correction. The ones that would profit are people that are quickest at the trigger or have the best access to information. I would expect both coins would survive, so this would be accentually a 100% dilution of value of the community interest and resources. Tricky one here and very easy for insider gaming.

[danonthehill]

Realistically, who will invest into NewCoin? The only currency I see of value here is CLAM.

If NewCoin's distribution is gauged pre-block 730,000, the only people that will be interested will be the insiders. Any other investors that had their coins before 730,000 will probably liquidate all of their stock of NewCoin on an exchange, and buy-back into CLAMs. It will be a community divided, with the majority on the side of CLAM.

If NewCoin wants any chance at succeeding, they should gauge distribution at a FUTURE block (eg; block 900,000). This will give enough time for people to decide whether to be a part of the NewCoin community or not, and buy in accordingly. Right now, all I see are a bunch of insiders that probably bought a bunch of coins a month ago and chose a block around that time, and announce it to us now.

If the creator of Newcoin TRULY wishes the best for the community and the success of his coin, he will have to go with a future block.

You mistake clam value for just dice value.

No I think he was speaking in more general terms and didn't refer to dice value.

I agree with him that there is no motivation to invest in a new token unless it is fairly launched.

Having bought CLAM after the suggested snapshot block and been told that I should have kept up with the thread feels like a betrayal of sorts i.e. your CLAMS are no longer fungible: your CLAM = 1 CLAM : my CLAM = 1 CLAM + 1 NEWCOIN because I set a new rule and didn't want you to buy more CLAM so that you could have more NEWCOIN, so now you have to buy NEWCOIN from me and your CLAM will be worth less (not worthless) because NEWCOIN is a more advanced version of CLAM which is inherently more stable and secure.  

[cryptoPrecise]

so basically the clam as we know it has no value as block 730000 already has passed for any conversion?

I am pretty sure dooglus will go with a future block as he wants the best for the community and exchanges will soon come up with a statement to clear everything.

So if a future block is decided then there will be hoarding then dumpage of the original clams after the block has passed. But then a buyback of clams after the correction. The ones that would profit are people that are quickest at the trigger or have the best access to information. I would expect both coins would survive, so this would be accentually a 100% dilution of value of the community interest and resources. Tricky one here and very easy for insider gaming.

As you said access to information, by going with the future block ppl will have the information and enough time to make up their minds.

[danonthehill]

OldMankidd over at Polo just said this in response to "have you checked out the Clamcoin Ann?"

OldManKidd: whywetrance, not really .. the box has been talking about it.. it seems there is a proposal but until the devs contact us about any changes there are none

Yes, look at todays volume: with little price movement.  Some people are buying. And some people are contributing to the fud, when it's just ideas that are being discussed and no plan has been implemented.

[cjmoles]

Forgive me if I'm not reading this correctly but if you do a 1 for 1 swap at block 730k the digger would still possibly have 500+k coins as you do not know what he's doing with them once they move to polo or jd.

See a couple of posts up - I wasn't considering a "swap" at all.

I was considering having the initial distribution of the new coin be such that everyone has the same as the amount of already-moved CLAM they had at that block. Coins which hadn't moved since the initial CLAM distribution wouldn't feature in the new coin's blockchain.

And so "the digger" would only have the 38% of his 500k that he moved already, and the next generation of large diggers would have nothing.

The idea being that since some people want digging to stop and others want it left alone, we need a 2nd coin in which digging has stopped.

For those who want digging left as it started, there's CLAM. For people who want it stopped, there's the other coin.

Again, it's just an idea someone brought up. So far I've heard nothing against it other than that "it's a bad idea". But is it? And if so, why so?

I admit using the term swap was poor judgement I do know the people will hold both coins but is it fair to say this is just an idea? you have already taken a snapshot, you had mention a new coin weeks ago in JD chat "cloogs". It seems to me its more than just an idea you seem well prepared to execute. It does not bother me either way as free <X> coins always fit in my business model perfectly but I can't imagine the average investor being thrilled about the idea.

Fits into your business model?  What does?  A price dump?  You must not have invested much into clam....if you're not worried about it hitting the floor!  You'll just end up with two coins worth nothing!  Is 2*0 > 1*0?  Maybe, in some other parallel universe...not here!

[BayAreaCoins]

OldMankidd over at Polo just said this in response to "have you checked out the Clamcoin Ann?"

OldManKidd: whywetrance, not really .. the box has been talking about it.. it seems there is a proposal but until the devs contact us about any changes there are none

Yes, look at todays volume: with little price movement.  Some people are buying. And some people are contributing to the fud, when it's just ideas that are being discussed and no plan has been implemented.

Dooglus could have made his Doogcoin post just to manipulate market prices saying CLAM will be worthless.

[chilly2k]

so basically the clam as we know it has no value as block 730000 already has passed for any conversion?

I am pretty sure dooglus will go with a future block as he wants the best for the community and exchanges will soon come up with a statement to clear everything.

So if a future block is decided then there will be hoarding then dumpage of the original clams after the block has passed. But then a buyback of clams after the correction. The ones that would profit are people that are quickest at the trigger or have the best access to information. I would expect both coins would survive, so this would be accentually a 100% dilution of value of the community interest and resources. Tricky one here and very easy for insider gaming.

As you said access to information, by going with the future block ppl will have the information and enough time to make up their minds.

   IF Doog goes ahead with a new coin, I think the block as stated is the most fair.  People will game the system now.  Anyone who bought clams after the block we're not expecting anything other then clams, now that he announced a block, folks are upset because they didn't get included.  

   Plus because of the announcement some folks dumped their clams, if you move it they will start to complain.  

Personally I don't fall in either camp.  I just think what he's chosen seems fairest.  

[chilly2k]

OldMankidd over at Polo just said this in response to "have you checked out the Clamcoin Ann?"

OldManKidd: whywetrance, not really .. the box has been talking about it.. it seems there is a proposal but until the devs contact us about any changes there are none

Yes, look at todays volume: with little price movement.  Some people are buying. And some people are contributing to the fud, when it's just ideas that are being discussed and no plan has been implemented.

Dooglus could have made his Doogcoin post just to manipulate market prices saying CLAM will be worthless.

  Or he could have done it, to force the diggers hand.  I've seen a lot more dig activity lately.  

[gamblingbad]

OldMankidd over at Polo just said this in response to "have you checked out the Clamcoin Ann?"

OldManKidd: whywetrance, not really .. the box has been talking about it.. it seems there is a proposal but until the devs contact us about any changes there are none

Yes, look at todays volume: with little price movement.  Some people are buying. And some people are contributing to the fud, when it's just ideas that are being discussed and no plan has been implemented.

Dooglus could have made his Doogcoin post just to manipulate market prices saying CLAM will be worthless.

I dont think dooglus think same you and have so much greed as you.

[chilly2k]

OldMankidd over at Polo just said this in response to "have you checked out the Clamcoin Ann?"

OldManKidd: whywetrance, not really .. the box has been talking about it.. it seems there is a proposal but until the devs contact us about any changes there are none

Yes, look at todays volume: with little price movement.  Some people are buying. And some people are contributing to the fud, when it's just ideas that are being discussed and no plan has been implemented.

Dooglus could have made his Doogcoin post just to manipulate market prices saying CLAM will be worthless.

I dont think dooglus think same you and have so much greed as you.

  I agree.  I think Doogs just trying to make everybody happy.  Good luck with THAT.... 

[cryptoPrecise]

so basically the clam as we know it has no value as block 730000 already has passed for any conversion?

I am pretty sure dooglus will go with a future block as he wants the best for the community and exchanges will soon come up with a statement to clear everything.

So if a future block is decided then there will be hoarding then dumpage of the original clams after the block has passed. But then a buyback of clams after the correction. The ones that would profit are people that are quickest at the trigger or have the best access to information. I would expect both coins would survive, so this would be accentually a 100% dilution of value of the community interest and resources. Tricky one here and very easy for insider gaming.

As you said access to information, by going with the future block ppl will have the information and enough time to make up their minds.

   IF Doog goes ahead with a new coin, I think the block as stated is the most fair.  People will game the system now.  Anyone who bought clams after the block we're not expecting anything other then clams, now that he announced a block, folks are upset because they didn't get included.  

   Plus because of the announcement some folks dumped their clams, if you move it they will start to complain.  

Personally I don't fall in either camp.  I just think what he's chosen seems fairest.  

insiders already have gamed the system, that is in no way fair. the only fair solution is the one proposed by smooth. The future block must also be selected in a way to give ppl enough time to decide.