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Author Topic: #1 RATINGS of BITCOIN SPORTSBOOKS : poster book discussion  (Read 222574 times)
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TwitchySeal
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May 24, 2016, 04:15:03 AM
 #1961

Have you tried to double-spend?
If yes and there are proves, everything seems legit (except you)

Does your comment reflect how BetBTC would handle a similar situation?

Definitely it wouldn't be a good idea to try double-spend on us.

Do you agree with DirectBet in that they should confiscate 36 BTC? This is the second time that DirectBet has confiscated player's funds. It's one thing to void winnings, it's outright theft to take deposits.

Since our beginning, in 2014, we never confiscated any winner's profits / balances, and we usually process some big withdrawals (last weekend we had a 18, a 13 and a 11BTC, none took more than 47mins.

What I am telling is that if any of these users have tried to double spend on us, we would surely take the appropriate measures to avoid situations like that happen in future.

From what I understood directbet is ready to process your withdrawal after you send the passport and sign a term.

In case of double spend attempt confirmed, and I repeat in case of double spend attempt proved, that measure is clearly "user-friendly" in our opinion.
I can understand the anger if someone were to try and double spend. The problem here is that DirectBet has the 36 BTC. They accepted the wager. They free rolled the player. If the player lost, DirectBet keeps the money. If the player wins, DirectBet steals the money.


Sure, I agree there could be better ways to handle the situation, however they are able to process the withdrawal so let's see how this ends.

I think "double spend attempt confirmed" is vague and could be interpreted many different ways.  (not good)

If you want to seize a players funds ethically, you need proof that the double spend was done maliciously and with the intent to cheat the sports book.

Proving the intent of an anonymous person is extremely difficult or impossible.

Even if you really believe a player is guilty, you can not ethically take their money without proof since ultimately, you chose to accept the the risk that comes with crediting players before their transactions are confirmed by the network.  Many other sites choose not to.

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May 24, 2016, 04:20:06 AM
 #1962

Have you tried to double-spend?
If yes and there are proves, everything seems legit (except you)

Does your comment reflect how BetBTC would handle a similar situation?

Definitely it wouldn't be a good idea to try double-spend on us.

Do you agree with DirectBet in that they should confiscate 36 BTC? This is the second time that DirectBet has confiscated player's funds. It's one thing to void winnings, it's outright theft to take deposits.

Since our beginning, in 2014, we never confiscated any winner's profits / balances, and we usually process some big withdrawals (last weekend we had a 18, a 13 and a 11BTC, none took more than 47mins.

What I am telling is that if any of these users have tried to double spend on us, we would surely take the appropriate measures to avoid situations like that happen in future.

From what I understood directbet is ready to process your withdrawal after you send the passport and sign a term.

In case of double spend attempt confirmed, and I repeat in case of double spend attempt proved, that measure is clearly "user-friendly" in our opinion.
I can understand the anger if someone were to try and double spend. The problem here is that DirectBet has the 36 BTC. They accepted the wager. They free rolled the player. If the player lost, DirectBet keeps the money. If the player wins, DirectBet steals the money.


Sure, I agree there could be better ways to handle the situation, however they are able to process the withdrawal so let's see how this ends.

I think "double spend attempt confirmed" is vague and could be interpreted many different ways.  (not good)

If you want to seize a players funds ethically, you need proof that the double spend was done maliciously and with the intent to cheat the sports book.

Proving the intent of an anonymous person is extremely difficult or impossible.

Even if you really believe a player is guilty, you can not ethically take their money without proof since ultimately, you chose to accept the the risk that comes with crediting players before their transactions are confirmed by the network.  Many other sites choose not to.

great point.

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May 24, 2016, 04:35:48 AM
 #1963

We posted this in our thread a couple of days ago. In case you missed it :

hungerstyle is an hacker who attempted to defraud us.

He bet on Nadal to win a Tennis match and after Nadal lost the first set, when he thought he was going to lose the bet, he attempted to double spend his bet transfer.

Following is a proof :

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/

He also admitted this to us via e-mail and promised not to do it again.

As a goodwill gesture we agreed to return his original wager provided that he sign an agreement, but he refused.

We will not be discussing this matter publicly any further. If you have any more questions please direct them to support@directbet.eu

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May 24, 2016, 06:00:43 AM
 #1964

We posted this in our thread a couple of days ago. In case you missed it :

hungerstyle is an hacker who attempted to defraud us.

He bet on Nadal to win a Tennis match and after Nadal lost the first set, when he thought he was going to lose the bet, he attempted to double spend his bet transfer.

Following is a proof :

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/

He also admitted this to us via e-mail and promised not to do it again.

As a goodwill gesture we agreed to return his original wager provided that he sign an agreement, but he refused.

We will not be discussing this matter publicly any further. If you have any more questions please direct them to support@directbet.eu


The problem is that there are attempts to defraud books all the time whether it's betting into a bad line or after a game is started. In these cases, bets are voided. Other books never confiscate money in a player's account as a punishment.

DirectBet has decided to confiscate over $15,000 USD as a punishment. This is the second time that you have done this. DirectBet is confiscating funds at their sole discretion and refusing to further discuss the situation with the bitcoin community.

How about letting a vote determine the outcome of the situation? Allow every poster that has ever posted in this thread one vote.

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May 24, 2016, 06:04:23 AM
 #1965

DirectBet- If the player were to show you a copy of his passport, would you publicly post the information or keep it confidential?

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May 24, 2016, 06:52:43 AM
 #1966

The Bet was made legitimately, with a transaction that ultimately confirmed.  You believe that this guy made a failed attempt at freerolling the house, and that this gives the house the right to freeroll the player and hold his wager hostage with unreasonable demands....

We posted this in our thread a couple of days ago. In case you missed it :

hungerstyle is an hacker who attempted to defraud us.

He bet on Nadal to win a Tennis match and after Nadal lost the first set, when he thought he was going to lose the bet, he attempted to double spend his bet transfer.

Following is a proof :

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/
No. That's not proof.
I'm not understanding how the only possible conclusion is "hungerstyle is an hacker who attempted to defraud us."   How do you know he isn't telling the truth about using a third party that actually sends the bitcoin?  


He also admitted this to us via e-mail and promised not to do it again.
If you had a written confession, it would help your case a hell of a lot more than the "proof" you have now.  

Putting the email pieces together I think it went more like this -

First you told him:

"you tried to double spend the bitcoin after Nadal lost first set.  You can have your bitcoin back if you agree not to do it again"

He responded:

"I wont do it again"

You thought: "AHA! I got him!  He just admitted it! "


As a goodwill gesture we agreed to return his original wager provided that he sign an agreement, but he refused.
When someone tries to steal from you, it's not normal to immediately give them money they aren't entitled to simply as a gesture of "good will"

I think you offered him some of his money back for two reasons:

A) You just freerolled him, and you know that freerolling your players is wrong, even if you think they may have just attempted to freeroll you.

B) You thought you could convince him to keep quiet, because you knew you wouldn't look good if this got too public. Obviously you realize it's bad for business to freeroll your players...If you were not guilty, I think you would be sure to explain why to anyone who would listen.  Instead, you close your post with this.

We will not be discussing this matter publicly any further. If you have any more questions please direct them to support@directbet.eu

The passport thing seems like an attempt to validate the rest of his actions.

Asking an anonymous person to send a scanned image of a passport is kind of pointless.  



For the record, if we had a way to know the truth, I still think "Player is Guilty" would be pretty big favorite.

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May 24, 2016, 07:13:23 AM
 #1967

TwitchySeal -

"Not sure if Hungerstyle is innocent, but I am sure that Directbet is guilty of handling this situation very poorly...





...If they have enough evidence to justify seizing 36 bitcoin from a player, they should be prepared to defend their decision to the player and the public (if player chooses to make it public)  Can't just say "fuck this guy, I think he's trying to scam us" and expect to maintain a reputation. "


I agree with all of the above.


I didn't realize that this was discussed in Directbet's thread.
I should have checked before posting the above.
Haven't had a chance to read the Directbet thread yet.
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May 24, 2016, 08:47:01 AM
 #1968

We posted this in our thread a couple of days ago. In case you missed it :

hungerstyle is an hacker who attempted to defraud us.

He bet on Nadal to win a Tennis match and after Nadal lost the first set, when he thought he was going to lose the bet, he attempted to double spend his bet transfer.

Following is a proof :

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/

He also admitted this to us via e-mail and promised not to do it again.

As a goodwill gesture we agreed to return his original wager provided that he sign an agreement, but he refused.

We will not be discussing this matter publicly any further. If you have any more questions please direct them to support@directbet.eu



Directbet must pay player in full: deposit+winnings;

They have received player's funds and accepted bet. The bet has won. It is that simple. They do not have any right to request ID.





▄▄▄████████▄▄▄
▄▄███▀▀▀ ▄  ▄ ▀▀▀███▄▄
▄██▀▀ ▄▄████  ████▄▄ ▀▀██▄
▄██▀ ▄███████    ███████▄ ▀██▄
██▀ ▄████████▀    ▀████████▄ ▀██
██▀ ██████████      ██████████ ▀██
██▀ ██████████        ██████████ ▀██
▄██                                ██▄
██ ▄                              ▄ ██
██ ███▄                        ▄███ ██
██ ██████▄                  ▄██████ ██
██ ▀████████              ████████▀ ██
▀██ ███████                ███████ ██▀
██▄ █████▀                ▀█████ ▄██
██▄ ████        ▄▄        ████ ▄██
██▄ ▀█      ▄▄████▄▄      █▀ ▄██
██▄    ▄▄██████████▄▄    ▄██▀
▀██▄▄ ▀▀██████████▀▀ ▄▄██▀
▀▀███▄▄▄ ▀▀▀▀ ▄▄▄███▀▀
▀▀▀████████▀▀▀
 

    [    ]
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May 24, 2016, 12:43:29 PM
 #1969

We posted this in our thread a couple of days ago. In case you missed it :

hungerstyle is an hacker who attempted to defraud us.

He bet on Nadal to win a Tennis match and after Nadal lost the first set, when he thought he was going to lose the bet, he attempted to double spend his bet transfer.

Following is a proof :

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/

He also admitted this to us via e-mail and promised not to do it again.

As a goodwill gesture we agreed to return his original wager provided that he sign an agreement, but he refused.

We will not be discussing this matter publicly any further. If you have any more questions please direct them to support@directbet.eu



Yes just like in email I share that they were so slow to respond (from forum input only)


That URL (
https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/) is me buying btc wager at block event. Now  I have no btc and no cash.

Even their tx they provide proves no double spend after nadal loses.

They reference URL points to :https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/34a243727b11220c6ae3b03d189d8ba21561e4af5bc4fc99f7e704b91943a240/   as the double spend  

But it is not possible to create this transaction AFTER nadal loses because input 14.2 BTC from
1ENYCitHPwcMz2yjzQ3k9UNFN7hMX was spent and confirmed 24 hrs + before nadal even began. Nor is this transaction even confirmable.

Of course all of this was sent long time ago email. They just want to keep.

Now I am with no btc and no cash.  Btc local sell tell me DB fault and db say fraud to keep coin.

I think it is clear DB not intend to send wtih slow support, never sending agreement and passport tasks, . I write off as loss. I just warn serious players to look for altnerate book with research before throwing 15k USD.






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May 25, 2016, 03:01:48 AM
 #1970

DirectBet downgraded to "D". There's no justification for confiscating $15k. This is the second time that DirectBet has confiscated funds.


"A" rated books
nitrogensports.eu A+ (2012)

"B"rated books
betcoinsports.com B+ (2013)
jetwin.ps B+ (2013)
bitcoinrush.io B (2013)

"C" rated books)
betbtc.co C+(2014)
cloudbet.com C (2013)
fairlay.com C (2014)
betmoose.com C- (2014)
olebitcoin.com C- (2013)*
predictious.com C- (2013)


"D" rated books
anonibet.com/  D+ (2011)
premiumtradings.com D+ (2014))
directbet.eu/ D

"F" rated books
Asianconnect F ....................accepting deposits but they have confiscated funds from multiple players.
Ball2Win F ..........................accepting deposits. They are under the same license as "F" book gobetgo
BetCas F ............................accepting deposits but they have confiscated funds from multiple players.
BTCBonusBook (2015).......... accepting deposits with no payout history.
Casinoco (2015)...................accepting deposits but not paying out all players.
Coindrafts F (2014)
Webetcoins F (2014
Bitbm F .............................accepting deposits but not paying out all players.
Bitcoinsport F
Bitcoinlivebets F
Coinbet F
Gobetgo F (2013)
Sportbet.im F
StakeBTC F
Blockbet F
Bitbook F

NR
2bet.io (2016)
betinbtc.com
BetVIP - closed 6/12/15
bitcasino.io/sportsbook
coinbet24.com
lunarbets.eu




* longer accepting cash deposits

Maximum grade based upon time in business:

A - 2 years
B - 1 year
C - 3 months
D - 1 month
F - reserved for books that are scams, slow paying or stiffing players


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May 26, 2016, 12:35:27 PM
 #1971

DirectBet downgraded to "D". There's no justification for confiscating $15k. This is the second time that DirectBet has confiscated funds.

This generally clue to insolvent book. They already spend coin: https://blockchain.info/address/128iBKnkKPcSPcwZEDMK7sSMJGodx3n47o

Why any serious player recommendations is to avoid.

The general support and responses all reflect the quality of this site.
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May 26, 2016, 12:41:02 PM
 #1972

DirectBet downgraded to "D". There's no justification for confiscating $15k. This is the second time that DirectBet has confiscated funds.


"A" rated books
nitrogensports.eu A+ (2012)

"B"rated books
betcoinsports.com B+ (2013)
jetwin.ps B+ (2013)
bitcoinrush.io B (2013)

"C" rated books)
betbtc.co C+(2014)
cloudbet.com C (2013)
fairlay.com C (2014)
betmoose.com C- (2014)
olebitcoin.com C- (2013)*
predictious.com C- (2013)


"D" rated books
anonibet.com/  D+ (2011)
premiumtradings.com D+ (2014))
directbet.eu/ D

"F" rated books
Asianconnect F ....................accepting deposits but they have confiscated funds from multiple players.
Ball2Win F ..........................accepting deposits. They are under the same license as "F" book gobetgo
BetCas F ............................accepting deposits but they have confiscated funds from multiple players.
BTCBonusBook (2015).......... accepting deposits with no payout history.
Casinoco (2015)...................accepting deposits but not paying out all players.
Coindrafts F (2014)
Webetcoins F (2014
Bitbm F .............................accepting deposits but not paying out all players.
Bitcoinsport F
Bitcoinlivebets F
Coinbet F
Gobetgo F (2013)
Sportbet.im F
StakeBTC F
Blockbet F
Bitbook F

NR
2bet.io (2016)
betinbtc.com
BetVIP - closed 6/12/15
bitcasino.io/sportsbook
coinbet24.com
lunarbets.eu




* longer accepting cash deposits

Maximum grade based upon time in business:

A - 2 years
B - 1 year
C - 3 months
D - 1 month
F - reserved for books that are scams, slow paying or stiffing players



Thanks for upgrading BetBTC. We will keep working hard to serve our users and hopefully we can reach the B rank soon.

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May 26, 2016, 08:26:45 PM
 #1973

DDoS attack on Betcoinsports (Betcoin.ag)

Quote
We get a message threatening a DDoS attack weekly and sometimes they are able to penetrate the protections.  This is what we are currently dealing with and will get Betcoin back up and running shortly.  We will keep you posted:

Hello Support,

We are a team of highly skilled independent security consultants. One of your competitors hired us to take your site offline for an entire month (which we have the resources to do but don't like the contact and might be able to work together instead).

We are taking your site offline until we here from you. Our initial consultation will cost 1 BTC. That price will go up half a btc for every 12 hours we have to keep your site offline. I want to personally assure you that we have the power to keep your site down for an indefinite amount of time. We are the ones who took down xbox live all week (testing ONE of our new servers). In addition to lletting your site up and giving you a report of what we found and how to fix it we will also let you know the ONLY way to stop a DDos attack the size we are capable of launching. We will also add you to a blacklist so no one else fucks with you.

The BTC can be sent to the following address :
1KRQ6LVBFDGn26cdn6FF5hBckNPsPPJLax

I know that you are going to try to mitigate but in the end that is only going to cost you a lot more money. You make enough from betting and advertising alone that just an hour of downtime wont justify the cost. Our team also understands that you will try to mitigate but nothing will stop the attack except my command. Your hosting provider will not be able to help, the authorities wont be able to help you, your firewall is easily bypassed and any ddos service you try to bring in we can bring down (we have done this for a long time). believe it or not we are not the masked assholes stealing credit card numbers. Most of us have families and can't find legitimate jobs in our fields right now and have families to feed.

Regards,

GETDD0sed
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.4420

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May 27, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
 #1974

Peeps Place, I suggest that you consult with an independent Bitcoin security firm before making ill-informed calls and spreading false allegations on DirectBet, because it sounds like you lack the knowledge and understanding of Bitcoin security.

He placed this bet using Bitcoins that he already spent in another transaction as you can see here :

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/

In addition, the transaction was sent with significantly low fees, more than 20 times lower than recommended !

Now why would anyone send $16,500 bet and not be willing to pay even 1 cent in fees ?

There is only one reason. This was done on purpose to give him the option not to pay for this bet in case it loses.

No one is sending $16,500 transfer without even 1 cent in fees and with coins that were already spent elsewhere, unless their intentions are fraudulent.

When you bet on our website you accept our terms and conditions.

In our terms and conditions we clearly state that if your bet transfer is double spent, it may be confiscated. This is no hidden secret.

The above clearly shows that this was a fraudulent double spend attempt. These kind of double spends do not occur by mistake. They are done on purpose and we have zero tolerance in such cases because it threatens our business.

If we follow your suggestion to return the coins without a signed agreement, he will keep doing it and we will go out of business in no time.

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May 28, 2016, 12:24:51 AM
Last edit: May 28, 2016, 12:44:03 AM by RHavar
 #1975

I have no idea who's right or wrong here, but DirectBet is seriously asking someone to upload their passport to imgur wtf?!! Is that a joke?

Peeps Place, I suggest that you consult with an independent Bitcoin security firm before making ill-informed calls and spreading false allegations on DirectBet, because it sounds like you lack the knowledge and understanding of Bitcoin security.

That's unnecessarily condescending.

Quote
He placed this bet using Bitcoins that he already spent in another transaction as you can see here :

That is completely irrelevant. ~47 hours earlier, the user (or the wallet service he uses) unsuccessfully tried to relay a (very large 3323 byte) transaction with 7450 satoshis of fees. Not surprisingly,  it didn't confirm, nor propagate nor had any chance to do so.

Quote
https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/

In addition, the transaction was sent with significantly low fees, more than 20 times lower than recommended !

Now why would anyone send $16,500 bet and not be willing to pay even 1 cent in fees ?


There is only one reason. This was done on purpose to give him the option not to pay for this bet in case it loses.


No one is sending $16,500 transfer without even 1 cent in fees and with coins that were already spent elsewhere, unless their intentions are fraudulent.

That's not true. I have dozens of support tickets per day of people who use misconfigured wallets or wallets that send too little fees. It's a huge stretch to go from "small fee" to "fraudulent intentions".

Quote
When you bet on our website you accept our terms and conditions.

In our terms and conditions we clearly state that if your bet transfer is double spent, it may be confiscated. This is no hidden secret.

The above clearly shows that this was a fraudulent double spend attempt.

Not really. I wouldn't say this constitutes a double-spend attempt. As you note transaction 89be96f6cec.. was sent with very low fees, which would have facilitated a possible future double-spend (if the bet lost)


Quote
These kind of double spends do not occur by mistake. They are done on purpose
That's 100% demonstrably false. All we saw here was a wallet that tried to tried to send with too little fee and the transaction didn't confirm. blockchain.info's wallet for instance must do that hundreds of times a day. As you may have noticed, bitcoin blocks are full -- what do you think happens to the transactions that never confirm? They're resent..
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May 28, 2016, 12:30:18 AM
 #1976

Now I am with no btc and no cash.  Btc local sell tell me DB fault and db say fraud to keep coin.

Assuming by  "btc local" you mean "localbitcoin.com", if you're willing to share the account details with me (after removing all the money and what not) -- I'd be willing to login to your localbitcoin account and confirm or deny whether this was the case.
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May 28, 2016, 01:37:27 AM
 #1977

I have been waiting almost 12 hours for cloudbet withdraw. it still showed as "sending"!

 Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry
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May 28, 2016, 03:29:50 AM
 #1978

cloudbet, please process my withdraw please.
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May 28, 2016, 04:47:40 AM
 #1979

I really like cloudbet.com i think it should be atleast B rated because they provide a large variety of sports in in-play market.They are improving day by day now they also provide cricket in-play also
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May 28, 2016, 04:48:43 AM
 #1980

cloudbet, please process my withdraw please.
Nowdays they are facing some issues with 3rd party wallet provider.It will be processed within 24 hours you do not need to worry
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