Bitcoin Forum
May 21, 2019, 08:07:36 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 [101] 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 ... 160 »
  Print  
Author Topic: #1 RATINGS of BITCOIN SPORTSBOOKS : poster book discussion  (Read 222354 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
Peeps Place
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019


View Profile
June 01, 2016, 12:39:39 AM
 #2001

Peeps Place, I suggest that you consult with an independent Bitcoin security firm before making ill-informed calls and spreading false allegations on DirectBet, because it sounds like you lack the knowledge and understanding of Bitcoin security.

He placed this bet using Bitcoins that he already spent in another transaction as you can see here :

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/89be96f6cecf47de065ea152b3d1bd969047cb282c61a4c30d82d78e38ef1ddd/

In addition, the transaction was sent with significantly low fees, more than 20 times lower than recommended !

Now why would anyone send $16,500 bet and not be willing to pay even 1 cent in fees ?

There is only one reason. This was done on purpose to give him the option not to pay for this bet in case it loses.

No one is sending $16,500 transfer without even 1 cent in fees and with coins that were already spent elsewhere, unless their intentions are fraudulent.

When you bet on our website you accept our terms and conditions.

In our terms and conditions we clearly state that if your bet transfer is double spent, it may be confiscated. This is no hidden secret.

The above clearly shows that this was a fraudulent double spend attempt. These kind of double spends do not occur by mistake. They are done on purpose and we have zero tolerance in such cases because it threatens our business.

If we follow your suggestion to return the coins without a signed agreement, he will keep doing it and we will go out of business in no time.
DirectBet - RHaver did an excellent job in replying to your post above. goxcroft and Twitchy Seal also made excellent posts.

A quick summary of what happened is that a player deposited 36 BTC, approximately $16,500 at the time, with Directbet. Without losing a bet, DirectBet is keeping his 36 BTC. No top book will ever confiscate a player's deposit.
this double spend case really confusing , but for simply example can you imagine if the bet were lost and (he) hungerstyle voided the bets by double spending the transaction?

you must look at 2 sides , player and bookmaker. if everytime double spender provided a payout like what you suggest all bitcoin bookmakers will declared bankrupt!

Not all double spend attempts are intentional.  It could happen to anyone.

Many sites require at least one confirmation (or more) to prevent being exploited by double spend attempts. 

I assume DirectBet knows this and chooses not to require 1 confirm in hopes it will attract more players. 

If a site is going to accept 0 confirm deposits they should expect players to try and exploit this.  They should also expect innocent double spends to happen.  There are two ways on handling these situations.

A) Make sure they are never scammed and seize any bets with suspicious double spend attempts.
Result: Scammers will never succeed but inevitable innocent players will not be paid causing damage to DB reputation.

B) Pay out every bet unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a wager was made with the intention of exploiting the house.
Result:  They will end up losing funds to scammers, which will encourage more scammers to scam more, but DB will maintain their exceptional reputation for being trustworthy.

Of course, there could be other ways to prevent these situations (accepting action from 0 confirm deposits from only established players for example)  .  If I were them, that's what I would be focusing on.
great post.

1558469256
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558469256

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558469256
Reply with quote  #2

1558469256
Report to moderator
Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1558469256
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558469256

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558469256
Reply with quote  #2

1558469256
Report to moderator
casinobitco
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1804
Merit: 1028



View Profile WWW
June 01, 2016, 12:52:39 AM
 #2002

<snip>
If a site is going to accept 0 confirm deposits they should expect players to try and exploit this.  They should also expect innocent double spends to happen.  There are two ways on handling these situations.

A) Make sure they are never scammed and seize any bets with suspicious double spend attempts.
Result: Scammers will never succeed but inevitable innocent players will not be paid causing damage to DB reputation.

B) Pay out every bet unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a wager was made with the intention of exploiting the house.
Result:  They will end up losing funds to scammers, which will encourage more scammers to scam more, but DB will maintain their exceptional reputation for being trustworthy.

Of course, there could be other ways to prevent these situations (accepting action from 0 confirm deposits from only established players for example)  .  If I were them, that's what I would be focusing on.
great post.

I can tell you we are trying to be hacked, attacked, stolen-from, on a nearly constant basis (daily), and it's the reason we (and most other established players) require 1 confirmation.


hungerstyle
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0


View Profile
June 01, 2016, 01:11:55 AM
 #2003

yes it is one thing if double spend is malicious

but they claim that double spend AFTER nadal lose first set... but TX they provide shows input that is spent over 1 day previous. So it is not possible to spend malicious like they say nor did it occur after nadal lose first set. So if it was malicious you would not do it this way with transaction that could never confirm, you would actually do malicious.

Then they steel bet that comes from they casino coin account.

They just see quick chance to make quick btc. Why it is voted D and why major players will avoid it. They win in short but faith they lose long run.

Peeps Place
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019


View Profile
June 01, 2016, 01:16:35 AM
 #2004

<snip>
If a site is going to accept 0 confirm deposits they should expect players to try and exploit this.  They should also expect innocent double spends to happen.  There are two ways on handling these situations.

A) Make sure they are never scammed and seize any bets with suspicious double spend attempts.
Result: Scammers will never succeed but inevitable innocent players will not be paid causing damage to DB reputation.

B) Pay out every bet unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a wager was made with the intention of exploiting the house.
Result:  They will end up losing funds to scammers, which will encourage more scammers to scam more, but DB will maintain their exceptional reputation for being trustworthy.

Of course, there could be other ways to prevent these situations (accepting action from 0 confirm deposits from only established players for example)  .  If I were them, that's what I would be focusing on.
great post.

I can tell you we are trying to be hacked, attacked, stolen-from, on a nearly constant basis (daily), and it's the reason we (and most other established players) require 1 confirmation.


Thanks for checking in. Anything new at Bitcoinrush?

casinobitco
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1804
Merit: 1028



View Profile WWW
June 01, 2016, 01:25:56 AM
 #2005

<snip>
If a site is going to accept 0 confirm deposits they should expect players to try and exploit this.  They should also expect innocent double spends to happen.  There are two ways on handling these situations.

A) Make sure they are never scammed and seize any bets with suspicious double spend attempts.
Result: Scammers will never succeed but inevitable innocent players will not be paid causing damage to DB reputation.

B) Pay out every bet unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a wager was made with the intention of exploiting the house.
Result:  They will end up losing funds to scammers, which will encourage more scammers to scam more, but DB will maintain their exceptional reputation for being trustworthy.

Of course, there could be other ways to prevent these situations (accepting action from 0 confirm deposits from only established players for example)  .  If I were them, that's what I would be focusing on.
great post.

I can tell you we are trying to be hacked, attacked, stolen-from, on a nearly constant basis (daily), and it's the reason we (and most other established players) require 1 confirmation.


Thanks for checking in. Anything new at Bitcoinrush?

Oh yea man, we're always lurking here!

Brand new sportsbook coming to BitcoinRush.io... then a lot more advances in our Casino with some 3rd party integration!

Right now - giving away Free Bitcoin, just play now up until the Belmont... More details here: https://www.bitcoinrush.io/leaderboard

Peeps Place
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019


View Profile
June 01, 2016, 01:29:00 AM
 #2006

<snip>
If a site is going to accept 0 confirm deposits they should expect players to try and exploit this.  They should also expect innocent double spends to happen.  There are two ways on handling these situations.

A) Make sure they are never scammed and seize any bets with suspicious double spend attempts.
Result: Scammers will never succeed but inevitable innocent players will not be paid causing damage to DB reputation.

B) Pay out every bet unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a wager was made with the intention of exploiting the house.
Result:  They will end up losing funds to scammers, which will encourage more scammers to scam more, but DB will maintain their exceptional reputation for being trustworthy.

Of course, there could be other ways to prevent these situations (accepting action from 0 confirm deposits from only established players for example)  .  If I were them, that's what I would be focusing on.
great post.

I can tell you we are trying to be hacked, attacked, stolen-from, on a nearly constant basis (daily), and it's the reason we (and most other established players) require 1 confirmation.


Thanks for checking in. Anything new at Bitcoinrush?

Oh yea man, we're always lurking here!

Brand new sportsbook coming to BitcoinRush.io... then a lot more advances in our Casino with some 3rd party integration!

Right now - giving away Free Bitcoin, just play now up until the Belmont... More details here: https://www.bitcoinrush.io/leaderboard
Nice.

DirectBet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 01, 2016, 05:19:16 AM
 #2007

yes it is one thing if double spend is malicious

Since you brought this matter public we ask that you post here the original payout address used for bet # 128iBKnkKPcSPcwZEDMK7sSMJGodx3n47o

You sent it to us via e-mail on May 27th.

We already asked you to post it several times. Why are you trying to avoid posting it ?

If you are not the real owner of the bet, please ask the real owner to come here and post the payout address.

hungerstyle
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0


View Profile
June 01, 2016, 05:40:10 PM
Last edit: June 01, 2016, 05:51:35 PM by hungerstyle
 #2008

yes it is one thing if double spend is malicious

Since you brought this matter public we ask that you post here the original payout address used for bet # 128iBKnkKPcSPcwZEDMK7sSMJGodx3n47o

You sent it to us via e-mail on May 27th.

We already asked you to post it several times. Why are you trying to avoid posting it ?

If you are not the real owner of the bet, please ask the real owner to come here and post the payout address.

Although that address not ideal because you have not send in 3 weeks. Much different pay 3 weeks instead of right after event. 

You can make send to that address to keep your record safe. I will then get from my local exchange and no longer you issue.

When will we expect you to finish investigate and send?

Thanks
DirectBet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 01, 2016, 05:57:34 PM
 #2009

When can we expect you to finish investigate

The investigation will be completed after you post here the payout address of bet # 128iBKnkKPcSPcwZEDMK7sSMJGodx3n47o

Why are you still trying to avoid posting the payout address ?

Please post here the payout address.

srgkrgkj
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204
Merit: 1000



View Profile
June 01, 2016, 07:34:58 PM
 #2010

you guys should add sportsbet.io to the list it opened today and currently is holding massive promos ! havent had any problems on my end for the site so far ! Cheesy

Peeps Place
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019


View Profile
June 01, 2016, 08:05:45 PM
 #2011

you guys should add sportsbet.io to the list it opened today and currently is holding massive promos ! havent had any problems on my end for the site so far ! Cheesy
Thanks

Peeps Place
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019


View Profile
June 01, 2016, 08:34:58 PM
 #2012

When can we expect you to finish investigate

The investigation will be completed after you post here the payout address of bet # 128iBKnkKPcSPcwZEDMK7sSMJGodx3n47o

Why are you still trying to avoid posting the payout address ?

Please post here the payout address.

https://blockchain.info/address/128iBKnkKPcSPcwZEDMK7sSMJGodx3n47o


ACAB
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 636
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 01, 2016, 09:18:23 PM
 #2013

I give A+ to Directbet! They are #1!
poplolnman
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1414
Merit: 1008



View Profile
June 01, 2016, 11:19:34 PM
 #2014

I give A+ to Directbet! They are #1!
they are A+ for most of bitcointalk community members i know it, but we can't ignore current directbet case about a double spending attempt and confiscated funds worth thousands dollar. complicated case and still no solution to solve the problem.

cazkooo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1007


View Profile
June 02, 2016, 12:02:02 AM
 #2015

I give A+ to Directbet! They are #1!
they are A+ for most of bitcointalk community members i know it, but we can't ignore current directbet case about a double spending attempt and confiscated funds worth thousands dollar. complicated case and still no solution to solve the problem.

Even without the recent case of the double spend issue, you wont ever see directbet in the A+ list. Peeps got his own reason on not putting them on the A+ list which is because they were an onchain gambling sportsbook so the time of the odds confirmed will never be as instant as the other offchain sportsbook
Peeps Place
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019


View Profile
June 02, 2016, 06:26:23 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2016, 07:46:22 PM by Peeps Place
 #2016

I give A+ to Directbet! They are #1!
they are A+ for most of bitcointalk community members i know it, but we can't ignore current directbet case about a double spending attempt and confiscated funds worth thousands dollar. complicated case and still no solution to solve the problem.

Sometimes attempted double spend shows without a person trying to double spend. If DirectBet confiscates the $16,500, it sets a precedent that DirectBet can confiscate money any time attempted double spend shows.

acegilz
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 186
Merit: 100

1ACEGiLZnZoG7KUNkMwAT8tBuJ6jsrwj5Q


View Profile
June 02, 2016, 07:35:39 PM
 #2017

I give A+ to Directbet! They are #1!
they are A+ for most of bitcointalk community members i know it, but we can't ignore current directbet case about a double spending attempt and confiscated funds worth thousands dollar. complicated case and still no solution to solve the problem.

Sometimes attempted double spend show without a person trying to double spend. If DirectBet confiscates the $16,500, it sets a precedent that DirectBet can confiscate money any time attempted double spend shows.

peeps the player clearly tried to double-spend, however even if he wouldn't I don't understand why he keeps refusing to comply with the requisites to receive the payout..

DirectBet have on their rules:
Quote
"We reserve the right to confiscate wagers when we believe that fraudulent activity is involved, including but not limited to, hacking attempts, double spends and odds manipulation. By placing a bet at DirectBet you agree that in case of any dispute DirectBet decision is final."

In this case they are not just confiscating the funds, they are offering to refund the funds if user perform 2 simple actions.
I may be missing something here but I as others have previously said we need to check also from the bookmaker perspective, if not all bookmakers would go bankrupt in 2 weeks.
TwitchySeal
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 570



View Profile
June 02, 2016, 07:50:13 PM
 #2018

I give A+ to Directbet! They are #1!
they are A+ for most of bitcointalk community members i know it, but we can't ignore current directbet case about a double spending attempt and confiscated funds worth thousands dollar. complicated case and still no solution to solve the problem.

Sometimes attempted double spend show without a person trying to double spend. If DirectBet confiscates the $16,500, it sets a precedent that DirectBet can confiscate money any time attempted double spend shows.

peeps the player clearly tried to double-spend, however even if he wouldn't I don't understand why he keeps refusing to comply with the requisites to receive the payout..

DirectBet have on their rules:
Quote
"We reserve the right to confiscate wagers when we believe that fraudulent activity is involved, including but not limited to, hacking attempts, double spends and odds manipulation. By placing a bet at DirectBet you agree that in case of any dispute DirectBet decision is final."

In this case they are not just confiscating the funds, they are offering to refund the funds if user perform 2 simple actions.
I may be missing something here but I as others have previously said we need to check also from the bookmaker perspective, if not all bookmakers would go bankrupt in 2 weeks.

I don't think any site should get a pass for seizing funds because they reserved the right to do so in their fine print.  In fact, I consider the fine print pretty useless in an unregulated environment, once they have your money, they can do whatever they want with it no matter what anyone says or does, what are you gonna do, call someone? 

The only thing they can't completely control is their reputation. (signature campaigns are often a desperate attempt to)

It's up to the players to asses what kind of behavior should be acceptable or not.


Is it ok for a site to advertise this on their front page:





And then hold a players money hostage in exchange for personal details?


Peeps Place
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1946
Merit: 1019


View Profile
June 02, 2016, 07:59:33 PM
 #2019

Quote
In this case they are not just confiscating the funds, they are offering to refund the funds if user perform 2 simple actions.
I may be missing something here but I as others have previously said we need to check also from the bookmaker perspective, ]if not all bookmakers would go bankrupt in 2 weeks.


Attempted hacks occur daily at sportsbooks. DirectBet is the only one to confiscate funds.

DirectBet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
June 02, 2016, 08:02:00 PM
 #2020

Sometimes attempted double spend show without a person trying to double spend.

That's true, but we have developed extensive knowledge, experience and tools that allow us to tell the difference.

Here in this incident hungerstyle did it on purpose. There is evidence in the payout address.

You may have noticed that for several days now we are asking hungerstyle to post the payout address used for this bet, and he avoided doing it before eventually disappearing.

There is a reason why he didn't want to post the payout address for this bet.

He knew that once he posts it, it will be clear to all that he is a criminal and that this was a fraud attempt.

Pages: « 1 ... 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 [101] 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 ... 160 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!