Scientific proof that God exists?

[BADecker]

I have explained this over and over for you. If you are really curious, go on back over the thread and read what I have said. Start here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Nope, we already discussed this several times and always ends up with you not being able to explain how it points to your god. As previously discussed: Nothing in your argument rules out the possibility of different entities

Even if we agree with all the arguments there, it still doesn't show it was your god and not other god or multiple gods or multiple aliens or a simulation or anything that you can imagine. Your argument only shows 1 feature of what created the universe, it says it has to be more complex so anything that's more complex could be the creator/creators.

Again, you can't really get away with this badecker, your argument is dead, admit it.

If we discussed this, we barely discussed it. Rather, I almost always discussed about God, but you almost always discussed about god. Do you see the difference? In addition, you constantly talk about my god, whereas this thread has always been about God.

The point is that we are talking in different directions. We are talking right past each other. And you are talking, basically, off-topic. Why are you talking off-topic? Because the OP, and the topic title, both talk about God rather than god, just as most of what I talk about is God, and seldom god, and barely ever my god (if I even have one), and seldom ever even my God.

Why do talk as you do? Because you don't have any answers against the scientific proof that God exists, even though you might wish that He doesn't exist.

[Astargath]

I have explained this over and over for you. If you are really curious, go on back over the thread and read what I have said. Start here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Nope, we already discussed this several times and always ends up with you not being able to explain how it points to your god. As previously discussed: Nothing in your argument rules out the possibility of different entities

Even if we agree with all the arguments there, it still doesn't show it was your god and not other god or multiple gods or multiple aliens or a simulation or anything that you can imagine. Your argument only shows 1 feature of what created the universe, it says it has to be more complex so anything that's more complex could be the creator/creators.

Again, you can't really get away with this badecker, your argument is dead, admit it.

If we discussed this, we barely discussed it. Rather, I almost always discussed about God, but you almost always discussed about god. Do you see the difference? In addition, you constantly talk about my god, whereas this thread has always been about God.

The point is that we are talking in different directions. We are talking right past each other. And you are talking, basically, off-topic. Why are you talking off-topic? Because the OP, and the topic title, both talk about God rather than god, just as most of what I talk about is God, and seldom god, and barely ever my god (if I even have one), and seldom ever even my God.

Why do talk as you do? Because you don't have any answers against the scientific proof that God exists, even though you might wish that He doesn't exist.

The thread talks about the god from the bible, which is also the god you believe in. ''in the Bible'' It's mentioned in the first post and the article clearly says it's the God from the bible so we are talking about the same thing.

If you were confused because I typed god instead of God, you must be really confused about a lot of things.

''Because you don't have any answers against the scientific proof that God exists'' Again, your ''proof'' goes like this:

Entropy: A beginning

Cause and Effect: Universe must have a cause

Complexity(not defined but it doesn't matter): Whatever created the universe must be more complex than it

And that's where your argument ends, where does it show it was god? It simply shows the universe had a beginning and a cause and it has to be more complex. Again, this does not show it was God, it only points out to a complex being or beings or something that is not a sentient being, since it only has to be more complex.

[BADecker]

I have explained this over and over for you. If you are really curious, go on back over the thread and read what I have said. Start here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Nope, we already discussed this several times and always ends up with you not being able to explain how it points to your god. As previously discussed: Nothing in your argument rules out the possibility of different entities

Even if we agree with all the arguments there, it still doesn't show it was your god and not other god or multiple gods or multiple aliens or a simulation or anything that you can imagine. Your argument only shows 1 feature of what created the universe, it says it has to be more complex so anything that's more complex could be the creator/creators.

Again, you can't really get away with this badecker, your argument is dead, admit it.

If we discussed this, we barely discussed it. Rather, I almost always discussed about God, but you almost always discussed about god. Do you see the difference? In addition, you constantly talk about my god, whereas this thread has always been about God.

The point is that we are talking in different directions. We are talking right past each other. And you are talking, basically, off-topic. Why are you talking off-topic? Because the OP, and the topic title, both talk about God rather than god, just as most of what I talk about is God, and seldom god, and barely ever my god (if I even have one), and seldom ever even my God.

Why do talk as you do? Because you don't have any answers against the scientific proof that God exists, even though you might wish that He doesn't exist.

The thread talks about the god from the bible, which is also the god you believe in. ''in the Bible'' It's mentioned in the first post and the article clearly says it's the God from the bible so we are talking about the same thing.

If you were confused because I typed god instead of God, you must be really confused about a lot of things.

''Because you don't have any answers against the scientific proof that God exists'' Again, your ''proof'' goes like this:

Entropy: A beginning

Cause and Effect: Universe must have a cause

Complexity(not defined but it doesn't matter): Whatever created the universe must be more complex than it

And that's where your argument ends, where does it show it was god? It simply shows the universe had a beginning and a cause and it has to be more complex. Again, this does not show it was God, it only points out to a complex being or beings or something that is not a sentient being, since it only has to be more complex.

God from the Bible that the OP talks about is the God of the universe. Why? That is what the Bible says.

The Bible talks about God from a different standpoint than science. This thread talks about a scientific standpoint. This means that Bible stuff doesn't count if it doesn't fit scientific stuff. So, the Bible in the OP simply tells us that we are talking about God, not god (There are many gods referred to in the Bible, now and again.).

So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.



EDIT: Probably the most complex thing in the universe is the brain of mankind, and/or its inter-connectivity, and/or the communications that go on between the parts of the brain through the inter-connectivity. There is sentience connected to the brain of mankind. Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

[Astargath]

I have explained this over and over for you. If you are really curious, go on back over the thread and read what I have said. Start here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=737322.msg10718395#msg10718395
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1355109.msg14047133#msg14047133
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1662153.40
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513.msg16803380#msg16803380.

Nope, we already discussed this several times and always ends up with you not being able to explain how it points to your god. As previously discussed: Nothing in your argument rules out the possibility of different entities

Even if we agree with all the arguments there, it still doesn't show it was your god and not other god or multiple gods or multiple aliens or a simulation or anything that you can imagine. Your argument only shows 1 feature of what created the universe, it says it has to be more complex so anything that's more complex could be the creator/creators.

Again, you can't really get away with this badecker, your argument is dead, admit it.

If we discussed this, we barely discussed it. Rather, I almost always discussed about God, but you almost always discussed about god. Do you see the difference? In addition, you constantly talk about my god, whereas this thread has always been about God.

The point is that we are talking in different directions. We are talking right past each other. And you are talking, basically, off-topic. Why are you talking off-topic? Because the OP, and the topic title, both talk about God rather than god, just as most of what I talk about is God, and seldom god, and barely ever my god (if I even have one), and seldom ever even my God.

Why do talk as you do? Because you don't have any answers against the scientific proof that God exists, even though you might wish that He doesn't exist.

The thread talks about the god from the bible, which is also the god you believe in. ''in the Bible'' It's mentioned in the first post and the article clearly says it's the God from the bible so we are talking about the same thing.

If you were confused because I typed god instead of God, you must be really confused about a lot of things.

''Because you don't have any answers against the scientific proof that God exists'' Again, your ''proof'' goes like this:

Entropy: A beginning

Cause and Effect: Universe must have a cause

Complexity(not defined but it doesn't matter): Whatever created the universe must be more complex than it

And that's where your argument ends, where does it show it was god? It simply shows the universe had a beginning and a cause and it has to be more complex. Again, this does not show it was God, it only points out to a complex being or beings or something that is not a sentient being, since it only has to be more complex.

God from the Bible that the OP talks about is the God of the universe. Why? That is what the Bible says.

The Bible talks about God from a different standpoint than science. This thread talks about a scientific standpoint. This means that Bible stuff doesn't count if it doesn't fit scientific stuff. So, the Bible in the OP simply tells us that we are talking about God, not god (There are many gods referred to in the Bible, now and again.).

So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.



EDIT: Probably the most complex thing in the universe is the brain of mankind, and/or its inter-connectivity, and/or the communications that go on between the parts of the brain through the inter-connectivity. There is sentience connected to the brain of mankind. Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

''So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.''
Entropy: A beginning

Cause and Effect: Universe must have a cause

Complexity(not defined but it doesn't matter): Whatever created the universe must be more complex than it

And that's where your argument ends, where does it show it was god? It simply shows the universe had a beginning and a cause and it has to be more complex. Again, this does not show it was God, it only points out to a complex being or beings or something that is not a sentient being, since it only has to be more complex.


Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

Complexity only makes equal or less complexity, Therefore whatever created the universe had to be more complex, not God, just more complex, why Your God and not many gods?

[BADecker]

God from the Bible that the OP talks about is the God of the universe. Why? That is what the Bible says.

The Bible talks about God from a different standpoint than science. This thread talks about a scientific standpoint. This means that Bible stuff doesn't count if it doesn't fit scientific stuff. So, the Bible in the OP simply tells us that we are talking about God, not god (There are many gods referred to in the Bible, now and again.).

So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.



EDIT: Probably the most complex thing in the universe is the brain of mankind, and/or its inter-connectivity, and/or the communications that go on between the parts of the brain through the inter-connectivity. There is sentience connected to the brain of mankind. Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

''So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.''
Entropy: A beginning

Cause and Effect: Universe must have a cause

Complexity(not defined but it doesn't matter): Whatever created the universe must be more complex than it

And that's where your argument ends, where does it show it was god? It simply shows the universe had a beginning and a cause and it has to be more complex. Again, this does not show it was God, it only points out to a complex being or beings or something that is not a sentient being, since it only has to be more complex.


Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

Complexity only makes equal or less complexity, Therefore whatever created the universe had to be more complex, not God, just more complex, why Your God and not many gods?

Are you even serious? Who or what other than God could make the universe? What do you mean "where does it show it was God?" God is the only Thing that it shows.

[ADZbuzz]

Controversial topic. But anyways, GOD is the Law. People name differently according to their beliefs and I am naming God the Law according to my beliefs. And yeah this can be proved scientifically. Metaphysics talks abut this in detail, its very interesting if you get the time to understand.

[Astargath]

God from the Bible that the OP talks about is the God of the universe. Why? That is what the Bible says.

The Bible talks about God from a different standpoint than science. This thread talks about a scientific standpoint. This means that Bible stuff doesn't count if it doesn't fit scientific stuff. So, the Bible in the OP simply tells us that we are talking about God, not god (There are many gods referred to in the Bible, now and again.).

So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.



EDIT: Probably the most complex thing in the universe is the brain of mankind, and/or its inter-connectivity, and/or the communications that go on between the parts of the brain through the inter-connectivity. There is sentience connected to the brain of mankind. Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

''So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.''
Entropy: A beginning

Cause and Effect: Universe must have a cause

Complexity(not defined but it doesn't matter): Whatever created the universe must be more complex than it

And that's where your argument ends, where does it show it was god? It simply shows the universe had a beginning and a cause and it has to be more complex. Again, this does not show it was God, it only points out to a complex being or beings or something that is not a sentient being, since it only has to be more complex.


Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

Complexity only makes equal or less complexity, Therefore whatever created the universe had to be more complex, not God, just more complex, why Your God and not many gods?

Are you even serious? Who or what other than God could make the universe? What do you mean "where does it show it was God?" God is the only Thing that it shows.

... Forget about god, imagine you didn't know anything about the bible or any religion. Then you are presented with your arguments, C&E, complexity, etc. What conclusion would you arrive at? If you agreed with all the 3 arguments, what would you say created the universe? Your argument simply says it has to be ''something'' more complex, it doesn't give that something any other characteristic, it doesn't say whether it's a person, a sentient being, something without consciousness, multiple beings, etc etc.

[BADecker]

God from the Bible that the OP talks about is the God of the universe. Why? That is what the Bible says.

The Bible talks about God from a different standpoint than science. This thread talks about a scientific standpoint. This means that Bible stuff doesn't count if it doesn't fit scientific stuff. So, the Bible in the OP simply tells us that we are talking about God, not god (There are many gods referred to in the Bible, now and again.).

So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.



EDIT: Probably the most complex thing in the universe is the brain of mankind, and/or its inter-connectivity, and/or the communications that go on between the parts of the brain through the inter-connectivity. There is sentience connected to the brain of mankind. Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

''So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.''
Entropy: A beginning

Cause and Effect: Universe must have a cause

Complexity(not defined but it doesn't matter): Whatever created the universe must be more complex than it

And that's where your argument ends, where does it show it was god? It simply shows the universe had a beginning and a cause and it has to be more complex. Again, this does not show it was God, it only points out to a complex being or beings or something that is not a sentient being, since it only has to be more complex.


Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

Complexity only makes equal or less complexity, Therefore whatever created the universe had to be more complex, not God, just more complex, why Your God and not many gods?

Are you even serious? Who or what other than God could make the universe? What do you mean "where does it show it was God?" God is the only Thing that it shows.

... Forget about god, imagine you didn't know anything about the bible or any religion. Then you are presented with your arguments, C&E, complexity, etc. What conclusion would you arrive at? If you agreed with all the 3 arguments, what would you say created the universe? Your argument simply says it has to be ''something'' more complex, it doesn't give that something any other characteristic, it doesn't say whether it's a person, a sentient being, something without consciousness, multiple beings, etc etc.

Intelligence is complexity that is backed by the subconscious. Yet, the best or highest intelligence of mankind can only create limited things, and can barely see anything beyond a tiny bit of the complexity of nature. The more we study nature and the universe, and the more we see the great complexity that is way beyond any complexity we do, the more we see the intelligent design in everything. Whatever the Designer is, He/It is way beyond us... a Super Intelligence.

More and more scientists who are coming to understand about the design and the complexity of the universe, are coming to understand that there is a Great Designer.

Often-times a person can feel an answer without being able to put all the pieces of whatever leads him to the answer in place. In the past, when people didn't have the exact sciences like we do today, they still understood that the Great Intelligence existed, by what they saw in nature. Their result was God, or in many cases, gods.


For some strange reason you are so completely against the idea of a Supremely Intelligent Supreme Being, that you won't accept It when It almost stares you right in the face.

Consider. You have identity. You say "I" or "me." Nobody understands the things about you the way you do. That's why nobody but you can say "I" or "me" about the things of yourself. So, why would you think that the "I" or "me" of what you are is not surpassed by some Great "I" or "Me?" The science of the way C&E and complexity operate backs this up. But you simply want to deny this science. Why?

[Astargath]

God from the Bible that the OP talks about is the God of the universe. Why? That is what the Bible says.

The Bible talks about God from a different standpoint than science. This thread talks about a scientific standpoint. This means that Bible stuff doesn't count if it doesn't fit scientific stuff. So, the Bible in the OP simply tells us that we are talking about God, not god (There are many gods referred to in the Bible, now and again.).

So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.



EDIT: Probably the most complex thing in the universe is the brain of mankind, and/or its inter-connectivity, and/or the communications that go on between the parts of the brain through the inter-connectivity. There is sentience connected to the brain of mankind. Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

''So, which god of the Bible are you talking about? The God of the universe is supported scientifically as I have shown in the links, above.''
Entropy: A beginning

Cause and Effect: Universe must have a cause

Complexity(not defined but it doesn't matter): Whatever created the universe must be more complex than it

And that's where your argument ends, where does it show it was god? It simply shows the universe had a beginning and a cause and it has to be more complex. Again, this does not show it was God, it only points out to a complex being or beings or something that is not a sentient being, since it only has to be more complex.


Complexity only makes equal or less complexity. Therefore, God is greater sentience.

Complexity only makes equal or less complexity, Therefore whatever created the universe had to be more complex, not God, just more complex, why Your God and not many gods?

Are you even serious? Who or what other than God could make the universe? What do you mean "where does it show it was God?" God is the only Thing that it shows.

... Forget about god, imagine you didn't know anything about the bible or any religion. Then you are presented with your arguments, C&E, complexity, etc. What conclusion would you arrive at? If you agreed with all the 3 arguments, what would you say created the universe? Your argument simply says it has to be ''something'' more complex, it doesn't give that something any other characteristic, it doesn't say whether it's a person, a sentient being, something without consciousness, multiple beings, etc etc.

Intelligence is complexity that is backed by the subconscious. Yet, the best or highest intelligence of mankind can only create limited things, and can barely see anything beyond a tiny bit of the complexity of nature. The more we study nature and the universe, and the more we see the great complexity that is way beyond any complexity we do, the more we see the intelligent design in everything. Whatever the Designer is, He/It is way beyond us... a Super Intelligence.

More and more scientists who are coming to understand about the design and the complexity of the universe, are coming to understand that there is a Great Designer.

Often-times a person can feel an answer without being able to put all the pieces of whatever leads him to the answer in place. In the past, when people didn't have the exact sciences like we do today, they still understood that the Great Intelligence existed, by what they saw in nature. Their result was God, or in many cases, gods.


For some strange reason you are so completely against the idea of a Supremely Intelligent Supreme Being, that you won't accept It when It almost stares you right in the face.

Consider. You have identity. You say "I" or "me." Nobody understands the things about you the way you do. That's why nobody but you can say "I" or "me" about the things of yourself. So, why would you think that the "I" or "me" of what you are is not surpassed by some Great "I" or "Me?" The science of the way C&E and complexity operate backs this up. But you simply want to deny this science. Why?

'' Supremely Intelligent Supreme Being'' No I'm not you are just ignoring everything to keep your belief going. I said numerous times that multiple supremely intelligent beings could have created the universe, can you disprove that, no you can't, therefore why do you keep claiming it was god when it could have been numerous supremely intelligent beings? I pointed out to super intelligent aliens several times. Again you have no ARGUMENT against any of my examples, you can't keep claiming it was god, period. You lost, deal with it.

[BADecker]

'' Supremely Intelligent Supreme Being'' No I'm not you are just ignoring everything to keep your belief going. I said numerous times that multiple supremely intelligent beings could have created the universe, can you disprove that, no you can't, therefore why do you keep claiming it was god when it could have been numerous supremely intelligent beings? I pointed out to super intelligent aliens several times. Again you have no ARGUMENT against any of my examples, you can't keep claiming it was god, period. You lost, deal with it.

There is only ONE God. Why? Because there is only one "outside of the universe."

We have no evidence of anything in the universe making itself without something from outside of itself making it. But there is evidence and proof all over the place in countless numbers of things where they are made by something outside themselves.

This brings us to the question >>> Does anything ever make itself, from scratch, without something outside of it making it?

Another way to say this is >>> Is there ever any spontaneous generation of anything?

We have no evidence of such. Everything we know about has at least one maker. Even the idea of radioactive decay having to do with some form of spontaneity, is just an idea, but might be a theory. What it isn't is a known fact. But if it somehow could be a fact, it would be one against countless trillions of trillions of makers making things.

In other words, things have makers outside of themselves...

once something is made the maker might go inside of it...

the maker generally doesn't entirely become part of the thing that he made even if he is inside of it.

One God, not originally from within the universe He made, but partially within it now, yet also outside of it, and different than it.

Again, One God because outside-the-universe is all we know about what is outside of the universe. Outside includes not even understanding what this "outside" is or means, because we are universe oriented. One outside. That's it. One God.

[Astargath]

'' Supremely Intelligent Supreme Being'' No I'm not you are just ignoring everything to keep your belief going. I said numerous times that multiple supremely intelligent beings could have created the universe, can you disprove that, no you can't, therefore why do you keep claiming it was god when it could have been numerous supremely intelligent beings? I pointed out to super intelligent aliens several times. Again you have no ARGUMENT against any of my examples, you can't keep claiming it was god, period. You lost, deal with it.

There is only ONE God. Why? Because there is only one "outside of the universe."

We have no evidence of anything in the universe making itself without something from outside of itself making it. But there is evidence and proof all over the place in countless numbers of things where they are made by something outside themselves.

This brings us to the question >>> Does anything ever make itself, from scratch, without something outside of it making it?

Another way to say this is >>> Is there ever any spontaneous generation of anything?

We have no evidence of such. Everything we know about has at least one maker. Even the idea of radioactive decay having to do with some form of spontaneity, is just an idea, but might be a theory. What it isn't is a known fact. But if it somehow could be a fact, it would be one against countless trillions of trillions of makers making things.

In other words, things have makers outside of themselves...

once something is made the maker might go inside of it...

the maker generally doesn't entirely become part of the thing that he made even if he is inside of it.

One God, not originally from within the universe He made, but partially within it now, yet also outside of it, and different than it.

Again, One God because outside-the-universe is all we know about what is outside of the universe. Outside includes not even understanding what this "outside" is or means, because we are universe oriented. One outside. That's it. One God.

''There is only ONE supreme intelligent alien. Why? Because there is only one "outside of the universe."

There are a few supreme intelligent aliens, why? Because the universe is so complex that multiple creators are required to build it

The universe was created by ''Insert any name'' supreme being

And so on and so on. Again, why does it have to be your god and not a super intelligent alien? Why not multiple aliens, why not any other being that we can think of? Why god?  


Nothing in your argument rules out the possibility of multiple causes, meaning that you can't be certain it was god and not gods.

[BADecker]

'' Supremely Intelligent Supreme Being'' No I'm not you are just ignoring everything to keep your belief going. I said numerous times that multiple supremely intelligent beings could have created the universe, can you disprove that, no you can't, therefore why do you keep claiming it was god when it could have been numerous supremely intelligent beings? I pointed out to super intelligent aliens several times. Again you have no ARGUMENT against any of my examples, you can't keep claiming it was god, period. You lost, deal with it.

There is only ONE God. Why? Because there is only one "outside of the universe."

We have no evidence of anything in the universe making itself without something from outside of itself making it. But there is evidence and proof all over the place in countless numbers of things where they are made by something outside themselves.

This brings us to the question >>> Does anything ever make itself, from scratch, without something outside of it making it?

Another way to say this is >>> Is there ever any spontaneous generation of anything?

We have no evidence of such. Everything we know about has at least one maker. Even the idea of radioactive decay having to do with some form of spontaneity, is just an idea, but might be a theory. What it isn't is a known fact. But if it somehow could be a fact, it would be one against countless trillions of trillions of makers making things.

In other words, things have makers outside of themselves...

once something is made the maker might go inside of it...

the maker generally doesn't entirely become part of the thing that he made even if he is inside of it.

One God, not originally from within the universe He made, but partially within it now, yet also outside of it, and different than it.

Again, One God because outside-the-universe is all we know about what is outside of the universe. Outside includes not even understanding what this "outside" is or means, because we are universe oriented. One outside. That's it. One God.

''There is only ONE supreme intelligent alien. Why? Because there is only one "outside of the universe."

There are a few supreme intelligent aliens, why? Because the universe is so complex that multiple creators are required to build it

The universe was created by ''Insert any name'' supreme being

And so on and so on. Again, why does it have to be your god and not a super intelligent alien? Why not multiple aliens, why not any other being that we can think of? Why god?  


Nothing in your argument rules out the possibility of multiple causes, meaning that you can't be certain it was god and not gods.

So, you think you can think along the lines of something outside of the universe clearly enough to know what it is, right?

Even if, in their relationships among themselves, there were more beings outside the universe than the number of electrons that could fill the whole volume of the universe, for us there is still only One. That One is outside-the-universe.

Or have you been out there to check it all out? Have you facts that show that there could not be one intelligent Being outside the universe, that is so vastly intelligent, that building a universe like ours is child's play to Him/It?

Your stuff is speculation. Outside the universe is not speculation. Outside is one outside. Show how it is not, and that your showing is other than speculation or ideas.

[Astargath]

'' Supremely Intelligent Supreme Being'' No I'm not you are just ignoring everything to keep your belief going. I said numerous times that multiple supremely intelligent beings could have created the universe, can you disprove that, no you can't, therefore why do you keep claiming it was god when it could have been numerous supremely intelligent beings? I pointed out to super intelligent aliens several times. Again you have no ARGUMENT against any of my examples, you can't keep claiming it was god, period. You lost, deal with it.

There is only ONE God. Why? Because there is only one "outside of the universe."

We have no evidence of anything in the universe making itself without something from outside of itself making it. But there is evidence and proof all over the place in countless numbers of things where they are made by something outside themselves.

This brings us to the question >>> Does anything ever make itself, from scratch, without something outside of it making it?

Another way to say this is >>> Is there ever any spontaneous generation of anything?

We have no evidence of such. Everything we know about has at least one maker. Even the idea of radioactive decay having to do with some form of spontaneity, is just an idea, but might be a theory. What it isn't is a known fact. But if it somehow could be a fact, it would be one against countless trillions of trillions of makers making things.

In other words, things have makers outside of themselves...

once something is made the maker might go inside of it...

the maker generally doesn't entirely become part of the thing that he made even if he is inside of it.

One God, not originally from within the universe He made, but partially within it now, yet also outside of it, and different than it.

Again, One God because outside-the-universe is all we know about what is outside of the universe. Outside includes not even understanding what this "outside" is or means, because we are universe oriented. One outside. That's it. One God.

''There is only ONE supreme intelligent alien. Why? Because there is only one "outside of the universe."

There are a few supreme intelligent aliens, why? Because the universe is so complex that multiple creators are required to build it

The universe was created by ''Insert any name'' supreme being

And so on and so on. Again, why does it have to be your god and not a super intelligent alien? Why not multiple aliens, why not any other being that we can think of? Why god?  


Nothing in your argument rules out the possibility of multiple causes, meaning that you can't be certain it was god and not gods.

So, you think you can think along the lines of something outside of the universe clearly enough to know what it is, right?

Even if, in their relationships among themselves, there were more beings outside the universe than the number of electrons that could fill the whole volume of the universe, for us there is still only One. That One is outside-the-universe.

Or have you been out there to check it all out? Have you facts that show that there could not be one intelligent Being outside the universe, that is so vastly intelligent, that building a universe like ours is child's play to Him/It?

Your stuff is speculation. Outside the universe is not speculation. Outside is one outside. Show how it is not, and that your showing is other than speculation or ideas.

That's the point you dumbass, you claim to know what it is and you call it god, I'm trying to make you realize that we can't know what it is, I'm glad you finally realized it without really realizing it.

[BADecker]

So, you think you can think along the lines of something outside of the universe clearly enough to know what it is, right?

Even if, in their relationships among themselves, there were more beings outside the universe than the number of electrons that could fill the whole volume of the universe, for us there is still only One. That One is outside-the-universe.

Or have you been out there to check it all out? Have you facts that show that there could not be one intelligent Being outside the universe, that is so vastly intelligent, that building a universe like ours is child's play to Him/It?

Your stuff is speculation. Outside the universe is not speculation. Outside is one outside. Show how it is not, and that your showing is other than speculation or ideas.

That's the point you dumbass, you claim to know what it is and you call it god, I'm trying to make you realize that we can't know what it is, I'm glad you finally realized it without really realizing it.

LOL! How many times do I have to say that I and others measure God by the relationships between things of the universe? Never do I say that we have any knowledge of things outside the universe, except that the universe shows that there are such things. In fact, I constantly say that we don't know anything about outside the universe, objectively.

To point, on this. Everything in the universe has a cause-and-effect relationship to something that caused it. In addition, the universe never shows anything that exists without a cause. In addition, nothing in the universe ever caused itself.

So, what caused the universe, as all the evidence of the universe shows? Something outside of the universe caused it. Universe shows us this by example within itself.

Why call the Causer of the universe God? Because the dictionary and encyclopedia definitions of God match the ultra great strength, intelligence, and order/organization of whatever the "outside Thing" MUST BE to make a universe like ours. Why MUST BE? Because if it wasn't, we wouldn't have much of a universe, and we, ourselves, wouldn't have the complexity to measure the universe as greatly as we have. Why not? Because it takes something in the line of God to make this kind of a universe. So, whatever is outside the universe is God.


Now, if you are measuring the Maker by the order, organization, and complexity of the universe, why don't you at least accept the term "God" which the universe shows that the Maker is? If you are biased against the word "God," you have all kinds of other word combinations that you can use, like Supreme Being, or Great First Cause.

[Astargath]

So, you think you can think along the lines of something outside of the universe clearly enough to know what it is, right?

Even if, in their relationships among themselves, there were more beings outside the universe than the number of electrons that could fill the whole volume of the universe, for us there is still only One. That One is outside-the-universe.

Or have you been out there to check it all out? Have you facts that show that there could not be one intelligent Being outside the universe, that is so vastly intelligent, that building a universe like ours is child's play to Him/It?

Your stuff is speculation. Outside the universe is not speculation. Outside is one outside. Show how it is not, and that your showing is other than speculation or ideas.

That's the point you dumbass, you claim to know what it is and you call it god, I'm trying to make you realize that we can't know what it is, I'm glad you finally realized it without really realizing it.

LOL! How many times do I have to say that I and others measure God by the relationships between things of the universe? Never do I say that we have any knowledge of things outside the universe, except that the universe shows that there are such things. In fact, I constantly say that we don't know anything about outside the universe, objectively.

To point, on this. Everything in the universe has a cause-and-effect relationship to something that caused it. In addition, the universe never shows anything that exists without a cause. In addition, nothing in the universe ever caused itself.

So, what caused the universe, as all the evidence of the universe shows? Something outside of the universe caused it. Universe shows us this by example within itself.

Why call the Causer of the universe God? Because the dictionary and encyclopedia definitions of God match the ultra great strength, intelligence, and order/organization of whatever the "outside Thing" MUST BE to make a universe like ours. Why MUST BE? Because if it wasn't, we wouldn't have much of a universe, and we, ourselves, wouldn't have the complexity to measure the universe as greatly as we have. Why not? Because it takes something in the line of God to make this kind of a universe. So, whatever is outside the universe is God.


Now, if you are measuring the Maker by the order, organization, and complexity of the universe, why don't you at least accept the term "God" which the universe shows that the Maker is? If you are biased against the word "God," you have all kinds of other word combinations that you can use, like Supreme Being, or Great First Cause.

''Why call the Causer of the universe God? Because the dictionary and encyclopedia definitions of God match the ultra great strength, intelligence, and order/organization of whatever the "outside Thing" MUST BE to make a universe like ours.'' You realize how stupid this argument is? If I include Badecker in the dictionary and give it the description of ''creator of the universe'' would that mean that badecker is the creator because that's how it is defined in the dictionary? Are you this dumb or what's wrong with you.

There are many gods defined as creators of the universe, why chose your christian god and not the others? Perhaps it's because that's what they taught you when you were a kid?

[BADecker]

''Why call the Causer of the universe God? Because the dictionary and encyclopedia definitions of God match the ultra great strength, intelligence, and order/organization of whatever the "outside Thing" MUST BE to make a universe like ours.'' You realize how stupid this argument is? If I include Badecker in the dictionary and give it the description of ''creator of the universe'' would that mean that badecker is the creator because that's how it is defined in the dictionary? Are you this dumb or what's wrong with you.

There are many gods defined as creators of the universe, why chose your christian god and not the others? Perhaps it's because that's what they taught you when you were a kid?

Why do you always limit yourself to such a tiny scope of thinking? For example, you talk about what is in the dictionary. How did it get there, whatever it is? God placed it there through cause and effect, right?

But you are free to put things in a dictionary, just like other people, right? And you are free to tear pages out of your dictionary, right? You might even get away with tearing pages out of the library dictionary, right? But you aren't free to tear all the pages about God from all the dictionaries and other writings that contain God, because God wants info about Himself to be there for people to read. If He didn't, these things wouldn't be there by C&E, right?

What about your freedom to add words or tear out pages? It is only an allusion of freedom, an artificial freedom. Why? Because none of us has the strength to do anything outside of C&E, or to do C&E without God doing it for us. Why? Because when we decide to cause something to bring about a certain effect, and then we do it, something caused us to decide that way, and many things caused us to be able to carry it out.

So, God is giving us freedom at the same time He is limiting our freedom. And He does it all for our joy and salvation. That's why He allows us to use our freedom to put false info about false gods into writings... so that we can see where these false gods don't line up with reality... so that we can come to Him and be saved, rather than reject Him... God, the only Thing that maintains us, as shown by C&E.

Take Zeus for example. Zeus died, even though many hold that he isn't dead as long as people believe things about him. But nowhere does Zeus have any writings that show that he is the holder of C&E in everything. In this and many other ways Zeus is incomplete regarding the universe and reality. But if he were complete regarding the universe and reality, then all that would have happened is that people would have added another name - Zeus - to the names that match the God of all things.

Again, if you are biased or prejudiced against the word "God" for some reason, use other words or names. I previously gave you a couple - Supreme Being, Great First Cause - and in another post ages ago, I even showed you more. The point is to recognize God for the Greatness that He is in every way, so that you can find salvation from your own demise in this life.

The point is simple. The more we get into science, the more science proves that God not only exists, but that He is the Holder and Controller of all things. Just because there are people who don't want to recognize the science of this, doesn't mean it is not there.

[Astargath]

''Why call the Causer of the universe God? Because the dictionary and encyclopedia definitions of God match the ultra great strength, intelligence, and order/organization of whatever the "outside Thing" MUST BE to make a universe like ours.'' You realize how stupid this argument is? If I include Badecker in the dictionary and give it the description of ''creator of the universe'' would that mean that badecker is the creator because that's how it is defined in the dictionary? Are you this dumb or what's wrong with you.

There are many gods defined as creators of the universe, why chose your christian god and not the others? Perhaps it's because that's what they taught you when you were a kid?

Why do you always limit yourself to such a tiny scope of thinking? For example, you talk about what is in the dictionary. How did it get there, whatever it is? God placed it there through cause and effect, right?

But you are free to put things in a dictionary, just like other people, right? And you are free to tear pages out of your dictionary, right? You might even get away with tearing pages out of the library dictionary, right? But you aren't free to tear all the pages about God from all the dictionaries and other writings that contain God, because God wants info about Himself to be there for people to read. If He didn't, these things wouldn't be there by C&E, right?

What about your freedom to add words or tear out pages? It is only an allusion of freedom, an artificial freedom. Why? Because none of us has the strength to do anything outside of C&E, or to do C&E without God doing it for us. Why? Because when we decide to cause something to bring about a certain effect, and then we do it, something caused us to decide that way, and many things caused us to be able to carry it out.

So, God is giving us freedom at the same time He is limiting our freedom. And He does it all for our joy and salvation. That's why He allows us to use our freedom to put false info about false gods into writings... so that we can see where these false gods don't line up with reality... so that we can come to Him and be saved, rather than reject Him... God, the only Thing that maintains us, as shown by C&E.

Take Zeus for example. Zeus died, even though many hold that he isn't dead as long as people believe things about him. But nowhere does Zeus have any writings that show that he is the holder of C&E in everything. In this and many other ways Zeus is incomplete regarding the universe and reality. But if he were complete regarding the universe and reality, then all that would have happened is that people would have added another name - Zeus - to the names that match the God of all things.

Again, if you are biased or prejudiced against the word "God" for some reason, use other words or names. I previously gave you a couple - Supreme Being, Great First Cause - and in another post ages ago, I even showed you more. The point is to recognize God for the Greatness that He is in every way, so that you can find salvation from your own demise in this life.

The point is simple. The more we get into science, the more science proves that God not only exists, but that He is the Holder and Controller of all things. Just because there are people who don't want to recognize the science of this, doesn't mean it is not there.

Meh, a lot of useless talk and you still haven't showed what evidence you have to points to god and not multiple gods or multiple other causes, your argument is still invalid.

[BADecker]

Meh, a lot of useless talk and you still haven't showed what evidence you have to points to god and not multiple gods or multiple other causes, your argument is still invalid.

Apparently you still haven't read the proof that points to God and not multiple gods or multiple other causes. You can't invalidate anything that you are ignoring just because you say it.

[Astargath]

Meh, a lot of useless talk and you still haven't showed what evidence you have to points to god and not multiple gods or multiple other causes, your argument is still invalid.

Apparently you still haven't read the proof that points to God and not multiple gods or multiple other causes. You can't invalidate anything that you are ignoring just because you say it.

But there is nothing to read, your argument ends on ''the cause/causes of the universe must have been more complex than the universe'' That does NOT show it was your god and not multiple gods or multiple causes.

[Astargath]

Also the bible and the god from the bible can be scientifically proven to be wrong.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_scientific_errors

Most notable errors, the age of the earth and the universe. The fact that we have:

A.  Over 450 English versions of the bible

B. All are translated using different methods and from entirely different manuscripts

C. Thousands of manuscripts disagreeing with each other wildly in what verses and even books they contain, and how those verses read.

You would think the bible, being the only word of god would be kept intact or something.

The flood, proven to be a total hoax. The hundreds of ridiculous laws and contradictions and more.