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Author Topic: Scientific proof that God exists?  (Read 801937 times)
Astargath
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June 18, 2018, 11:15:31 AM
 #9641


Complex design.

Inner Life Of A Cell - Full Version.mkv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UY


How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design, plus a whole lot more. In addition, it is more highly miniaturized than we can make things of complex operation that is this complex. In fact, the complexity and miniaturization is so great, that the designer would only fit our definition of "God." And indeed, our definition is extremely weak when compared to what God really is.

If complexity in the universe is something that comes by accident or randomness, then that is why we aren't getting anywhere near as great as this video complexity, in our design of things, right? After all, we don't use randomness when we design. And few of our great designs come about by accident. But when they do, they can't hold a candle next to the midday sun with regard to the design of nature.

Cool

How do you know that we designed them, tho?

If you can't even explain what your "them" is, how is anyone supposed to answer your question? Since you are afraid to express yourself clearly, for fear that you won't be able to respond against an answer appropriately, why not simply accept the fact that there is design in everything? - design, indicating that there is a Designer.

Cool

Your argument says that we know plants or rocks are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. Does a plant use the mechanism inside of a bottle of water? How does your argument work exactly?



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June 18, 2018, 12:03:28 PM
 #9642


Complex design.

Inner Life Of A Cell - Full Version.mkv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UY


How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design, plus a whole lot more. In addition, it is more highly miniaturized than we can make things of complex operation that is this complex. In fact, the complexity and miniaturization is so great, that the designer would only fit our definition of "God." And indeed, our definition is extremely weak when compared to what God really is.

If complexity in the universe is something that comes by accident or randomness, then that is why we aren't getting anywhere near as great as this video complexity, in our design of things, right? After all, we don't use randomness when we design. And few of our great designs come about by accident. But when they do, they can't hold a candle next to the midday sun with regard to the design of nature.

Cool

How do you know that we designed them, tho?

If you can't even explain what your "them" is, how is anyone supposed to answer your question? Since you are afraid to express yourself clearly, for fear that you won't be able to respond against an answer appropriately, why not simply accept the fact that there is design in everything? - design, indicating that there is a Designer.

Cool

Your argument says that we know plants or rocks are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. Does a plant use the mechanism inside of a bottle of water? How does your argument work exactly?

"Does a plant use the mechanism inside of a bottle of water?" Some of them, especially if you grow the plant along with the water inside the bottle. What are you even talking about?

Cool
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June 18, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
 #9643


Complex design.

Inner Life Of A Cell - Full Version.mkv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKW4F0Nu-UY


How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design, plus a whole lot more. In addition, it is more highly miniaturized than we can make things of complex operation that is this complex. In fact, the complexity and miniaturization is so great, that the designer would only fit our definition of "God." And indeed, our definition is extremely weak when compared to what God really is.

If complexity in the universe is something that comes by accident or randomness, then that is why we aren't getting anywhere near as great as this video complexity, in our design of things, right? After all, we don't use randomness when we design. And few of our great designs come about by accident. But when they do, they can't hold a candle next to the midday sun with regard to the design of nature.

Cool

How do you know that we designed them, tho?

If you can't even explain what your "them" is, how is anyone supposed to answer your question? Since you are afraid to express yourself clearly, for fear that you won't be able to respond against an answer appropriately, why not simply accept the fact that there is design in everything? - design, indicating that there is a Designer.

Cool

Your argument says that we know plants or rocks are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. Does a plant use the mechanism inside of a bottle of water? How does your argument work exactly?

"Does a plant use the mechanism inside of a bottle of water?" Some of them, especially if you grow the plant along with the water inside the bottle. What are you even talking about?

Cool

Your argument says we know plants, rocks, planets are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. We designed water bottles, what's the mechanism of a water bottle and how does it relate to the other things you claim god designed?



.
.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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June 18, 2018, 12:44:31 PM
 #9644

Scientists are not gods and even they fail to prove that God exists.. Are they the one that made both visible and invisible things. I know that God exists

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June 18, 2018, 02:18:39 PM
 #9645


Your argument says we know plants, rocks, planets are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. We designed water bottles, what's the mechanism of a water bottle and how does it relate to the other things you claim god designed?

Why do you think a water bottle has a mechanism?    Cool
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June 18, 2018, 02:34:46 PM
 #9646


Your argument says we know plants, rocks, planets are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. We designed water bottles, what's the mechanism of a water bottle and how does it relate to the other things you claim god designed?

Why do you think a water bottle has a mechanism?    Cool

''Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So a bottle can't be used to prove plants are designed by god, give me an example then of your claim.



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June 18, 2018, 03:13:01 PM
 #9647


Your argument says we know plants, rocks, planets are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. We designed water bottles, what's the mechanism of a water bottle and how does it relate to the other things you claim god designed?

Why do you think a water bottle has a mechanism?    Cool

''Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So a bottle can't be used to prove plants are designed by god, give me an example then of your claim.

Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design, and even in our design of some not-readily-seen-in-nature forms of atoms. We use natural design in all our design. It is all the same... design.

The fact that you don't know which human designed some pottery that you found in Asia, doesn't mean that it wasn't designed. The fact that you don't know much about the designer of al things doesn't mean that all things weren't designed.

Design is all that there is. we prove it daily by incorporating natural design into all our design. Or isn't our design really design. Is our design something else because we use the stuff that everything is made of?

Cool
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June 18, 2018, 03:21:07 PM
 #9648


Your argument says we know plants, rocks, planets are designed because it uses the mechanism inside the things that we design. We designed water bottles, what's the mechanism of a water bottle and how does it relate to the other things you claim god designed?

Why do you think a water bottle has a mechanism?    Cool

''Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So a bottle can't be used to prove plants are designed by god, give me an example then of your claim.

Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design, and even in our design of some not-readily-seen-in-nature forms of atoms. We use natural design in all our design. It is all the same... design.

The fact that you don't know which human designed some pottery that you found in Asia, doesn't mean that it wasn't designed. The fact that you don't know much about the designer of al things doesn't mean that all things weren't designed.

Design is all that there is. we prove it daily by incorporating natural design into all our design. Or isn't our design really design. Is our design something else because we use the stuff that everything is made of?

Cool

Ok, I asked you how do you know things are designed, you answered with this:

''How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So you claimed to know things are designed (plants, humans, rocks) because those things use the mechanisms inside the things that human design. Now you are saying that we are the ones incorporating natural design into our design, problem is how do you know there is such thing as ''natural design''?

''Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design'' No they aren't. We don't use the motions of atoms to create a bottle, at least not on purpose, otherwise you can say you use the motion of atoms doing anything.

The fact is that humans design things, we know that because we can compare them to nature, that's why we say nature is not designed. Everything is filled with flaws, something that you wouldn't expect in a perfect design.



.
.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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June 18, 2018, 03:37:06 PM
 #9649


Ok, I asked you how do you know things are designed, you answered with this:

''How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So you claimed to know things are designed (plants, humans, rocks) because those things use the mechanisms inside the things that human design. Now you are saying that we are the ones incorporating natural design into our design, problem is how do you know there is such thing as ''natural design''?

''Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design'' No they aren't. We don't use the motions of atoms to create a bottle, at least not on purpose, otherwise you can say you use the motion of atoms doing anything.

The fact is that humans design things, we know that because we can compare them to nature, that's why we say nature is not designed. Everything is filled with flaws, something that you wouldn't expect in a perfect design.

If you think that we don't use the motions of atoms in our creation of bottles, the only thing else that fits is miracles.

When we compare our things to the things of nature, we only determine that we designed them rather than the designer of nature. We still use the basics of design of nature in everything we design. Why? Because design is all that there is.

Everything is filled with flaws relationally, and on our scale of looking at things with our generally limited ability. However, there are no flaws in the laws of physics. If there were, everything would come crashing down in with the minutest of them.

Our flaw/no-flaw universe works like this. Adam and Eve sinned - the first flaw - which should have crashed the universe. Jesus immediately promised the Father that He would fix the flaw... the reason the universe didn't crash. The Father piled up the flaw results, holding the universe in place against the flaw. Jesus took the disruption for the flaw at His crucifixion, and proved that He overcame the flaw and its disruption by His resurrection. All other flaws were included; the flaws were corrected, even though their correction isn't apparent to us in our limited ways of thinking and understanding, generally. The fact that the universe stands, and that the laws of physics remain unbroken, shows that this is so.

Cool
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June 18, 2018, 03:52:15 PM
 #9650


Ok, I asked you how do you know things are designed, you answered with this:

''How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So you claimed to know things are designed (plants, humans, rocks) because those things use the mechanisms inside the things that human design. Now you are saying that we are the ones incorporating natural design into our design, problem is how do you know there is such thing as ''natural design''?

''Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design'' No they aren't. We don't use the motions of atoms to create a bottle, at least not on purpose, otherwise you can say you use the motion of atoms doing anything.

The fact is that humans design things, we know that because we can compare them to nature, that's why we say nature is not designed. Everything is filled with flaws, something that you wouldn't expect in a perfect design.

If you think that we don't use the motions of atoms in our creation of bottles, the only thing else that fits is miracles.

When we compare our things to the things of nature, we only determine that we designed them rather than the designer of nature. We still use the basics of design of nature in everything we design. Why? Because design is all that there is.

Everything is filled with flaws relationally, and on our scale of looking at things with our generally limited ability. However, there are no flaws in the laws of physics. If there were, everything would come crashing down in with the minutest of them.

Our flaw/no-flaw universe works like this. Adam and Eve sinned - the first flaw - which should have crashed the universe. Jesus immediately promised the Father that He would fix the flaw... the reason the universe didn't crash. The Father piled up the flaw results, holding the universe in place against the flaw. Jesus took the disruption for the flaw at His crucifixion, and proved that He overcame the flaw and its disruption by His resurrection. All other flaws were included; the flaws were corrected, even though their correction isn't apparent to us in our limited ways of thinking and understanding, generally. The fact that the universe stands, and that the laws of physics remain unbroken, shows that this is so.

Cool

Recycling the same bad design argument isn't going to prove god, sorry. There is no way to determine whether nature is designed or not and you clearly have no test, study or anything to prove plants or rocks are designed.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Suboptimal_design
http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=2520


And as I said many times, even if all of this showed a creator exists, in no way it shows that it's Yahweh as you claim.



.
.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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June 18, 2018, 04:06:46 PM
 #9651


Ok, I asked you how do you know things are designed, you answered with this:

''How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So you claimed to know things are designed (plants, humans, rocks) because those things use the mechanisms inside the things that human design. Now you are saying that we are the ones incorporating natural design into our design, problem is how do you know there is such thing as ''natural design''?

''Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design'' No they aren't. We don't use the motions of atoms to create a bottle, at least not on purpose, otherwise you can say you use the motion of atoms doing anything.

The fact is that humans design things, we know that because we can compare them to nature, that's why we say nature is not designed. Everything is filled with flaws, something that you wouldn't expect in a perfect design.

If you think that we don't use the motions of atoms in our creation of bottles, the only thing else that fits is miracles.

When we compare our things to the things of nature, we only determine that we designed them rather than the designer of nature. We still use the basics of design of nature in everything we design. Why? Because design is all that there is.

Everything is filled with flaws relationally, and on our scale of looking at things with our generally limited ability. However, there are no flaws in the laws of physics. If there were, everything would come crashing down in with the minutest of them.

Our flaw/no-flaw universe works like this. Adam and Eve sinned - the first flaw - which should have crashed the universe. Jesus immediately promised the Father that He would fix the flaw... the reason the universe didn't crash. The Father piled up the flaw results, holding the universe in place against the flaw. Jesus took the disruption for the flaw at His crucifixion, and proved that He overcame the flaw and its disruption by His resurrection. All other flaws were included; the flaws were corrected, even though their correction isn't apparent to us in our limited ways of thinking and understanding, generally. The fact that the universe stands, and that the laws of physics remain unbroken, shows that this is so.

Cool

Recycling the same bad design argument isn't going to prove god, sorry. There is no way to determine whether nature is designed or not and you clearly have no test, study or anything to prove plants or rocks are designed.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Suboptimal_design
http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=2520


And as I said many times, even if all of this showed a creator exists, in no way it shows that it's Yahweh as you claim.

I can accept that you and others don't want to understand the design that exists in all things.

Cool
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June 18, 2018, 04:11:46 PM
 #9652


Ok, I asked you how do you know things are designed, you answered with this:

''How do we know it is design? Because it uses all the mechanisms inside the things that we design'' So you claimed to know things are designed (plants, humans, rocks) because those things use the mechanisms inside the things that human design. Now you are saying that we are the ones incorporating natural design into our design, problem is how do you know there is such thing as ''natural design''?

''Well, the motions of atoms and their subatomic particles are mechanisms that we use inside everything that we design'' No they aren't. We don't use the motions of atoms to create a bottle, at least not on purpose, otherwise you can say you use the motion of atoms doing anything.

The fact is that humans design things, we know that because we can compare them to nature, that's why we say nature is not designed. Everything is filled with flaws, something that you wouldn't expect in a perfect design.

If you think that we don't use the motions of atoms in our creation of bottles, the only thing else that fits is miracles.

When we compare our things to the things of nature, we only determine that we designed them rather than the designer of nature. We still use the basics of design of nature in everything we design. Why? Because design is all that there is.

Everything is filled with flaws relationally, and on our scale of looking at things with our generally limited ability. However, there are no flaws in the laws of physics. If there were, everything would come crashing down in with the minutest of them.

Our flaw/no-flaw universe works like this. Adam and Eve sinned - the first flaw - which should have crashed the universe. Jesus immediately promised the Father that He would fix the flaw... the reason the universe didn't crash. The Father piled up the flaw results, holding the universe in place against the flaw. Jesus took the disruption for the flaw at His crucifixion, and proved that He overcame the flaw and its disruption by His resurrection. All other flaws were included; the flaws were corrected, even though their correction isn't apparent to us in our limited ways of thinking and understanding, generally. The fact that the universe stands, and that the laws of physics remain unbroken, shows that this is so.

Cool

Recycling the same bad design argument isn't going to prove god, sorry. There is no way to determine whether nature is designed or not and you clearly have no test, study or anything to prove plants or rocks are designed.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_design
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Suboptimal_design
http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=2520


And as I said many times, even if all of this showed a creator exists, in no way it shows that it's Yahweh as you claim.

I can accept that you and others don't want to understand the design that exists in all things.

Cool

If you can provide evidence I will sure understand it, just claiming that other things are designed because they are it's not an argument.



.
.BITVEST DICE.
HAS BEEN RELEASED!


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June 18, 2018, 04:41:20 PM
 #9653


I can accept that you and others don't want to understand the design that exists in all things.

Cool

If you can provide evidence I will sure understand it, just claiming that other things are designed because they are it's not an argument.

If you can provide evidence for lack of design, I will surely understand it. Just claiming that things are not designed because they simply are not, is not an argument.

Cool
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June 18, 2018, 05:12:24 PM
 #9654


I can accept that you and others don't want to understand the design that exists in all things.

Cool

If you can provide evidence I will sure understand it, just claiming that other things are designed because they are it's not an argument.

If you can provide evidence for lack of design, I will surely understand it. Just claiming that things are not designed because they simply are not, is not an argument.

Cool

It's always like that for you, isn't it. Why should I provide evidence for things that are not designed? You are assuming that everything is designed for no reason, I'm not the one trying to prove god you are.



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June 18, 2018, 08:54:51 PM
 #9655


If you can provide evidence for lack of design, I will surely understand it. Just claiming that things are not designed because they simply are not, is not an argument.

Cool

It's always like that for you, isn't it. Why should I provide evidence for things that are not designed? You are assuming that everything is designed for no reason, I'm not the one trying to prove god you are.

You shouldn't provide evidence for things not designed... for at least 2 reasons:
1. There aren't any, so you can't;
2. You should be spending all your time changing your heart to believe in God so that you can be saved.

All the things that mankind designs operate through the things of nature. Everything is designed. If it weren't, mankind couldn't design anything, because he uses nature in his designs. Either mankind desing including the nature he uses, or no design, not even of mankind.

Why? Because in mankind design, he uses nature. It's design or it isn't, both mankind and nature, because they are essentially the same at their core.

Cool
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June 18, 2018, 10:00:18 PM
 #9656


If you can provide evidence for lack of design, I will surely understand it. Just claiming that things are not designed because they simply are not, is not an argument.

Cool

It's always like that for you, isn't it. Why should I provide evidence for things that are not designed? You are assuming that everything is designed for no reason, I'm not the one trying to prove god you are.

You shouldn't provide evidence for things not designed... for at least 2 reasons:
1. There aren't any, so you can't;
2. You should be spending all your time changing your heart to believe in God so that you can be saved.

All the things that mankind designs operate through the things of nature. Everything is designed. If it weren't, mankind couldn't design anything, because he uses nature in his designs. Either mankind desing including the nature he uses, or no design, not even of mankind.

Why? Because in mankind design, he uses nature. It's design or it isn't, both mankind and nature, because they are essentially the same at their core.

Cool

''Everything is designed. If it weren't, mankind couldn't design anything, because he uses nature in his designs'' What are these arguments lmao, you are desperate. If things weren't designed mankind couldn't design anything? Why, how does that work lol. A computer or a spoon aren't designed copying nature. Stop with this stupid shit.



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June 19, 2018, 02:16:41 AM
 #9657


If you can provide evidence for lack of design, I will surely understand it. Just claiming that things are not designed because they simply are not, is not an argument.

Cool

It's always like that for you, isn't it. Why should I provide evidence for things that are not designed? You are assuming that everything is designed for no reason, I'm not the one trying to prove god you are.

You shouldn't provide evidence for things not designed... for at least 2 reasons:
1. There aren't any, so you can't;
2. You should be spending all your time changing your heart to believe in God so that you can be saved.

All the things that mankind designs operate through the things of nature. Everything is designed. If it weren't, mankind couldn't design anything, because he uses nature in his designs. Either mankind desing including the nature he uses, or no design, not even of mankind.

Why? Because in mankind design, he uses nature. It's design or it isn't, both mankind and nature, because they are essentially the same at their core.

Cool

''Everything is designed. If it weren't, mankind couldn't design anything, because he uses nature in his designs'' What are these arguments lmao, you are desperate. If things weren't designed mankind couldn't design anything? Why, how does that work lol. A computer or a spoon aren't designed copying nature. Stop with this stupid shit.


Some people use the phrase "connect the dots." You, it seems, can't even connect two dots. Let's try again, with the spoon you mentioned.

Somebody designs the spoon. He doesn't only design the idea of a spoon. He designs an actual spoon.

What is the spoon made out of? Atoms and molecules. They are part of the design. If they weren't, there would be no spoon or design.

Atoms and molecules are part of design. We can see it in the spoon.

Are these atoms or molecules and different than the atoms and molecules of the same type that are not in the spoon? No. They are all the same; they are all design.

The spoon is a silver spoon. It is made of silver. Silver is of design. The silver spoon designer has proven it by designing the spoon.

Cool
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June 19, 2018, 05:35:55 PM
 #9658

BADecker I just love how you ignored the statement about how you say humanity popped into existance according to our argument (which according to you is impossible) then you ignore the questions of "so god just popped into existence?" as if the statement was never made. Good show my boy.
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June 19, 2018, 09:02:07 PM
 #9659

BADecker I just love how you ignored the statement about how you say humanity popped into existance according to our argument (which according to you is impossible) then you ignore the questions of "so god just popped into existence?" as if the statement was never made. Good show my boy.

Why, thank you. I enjoy it when I can cause someone to have love. But really. This is the scientific proof for the existence of God thread. So, do you have any proof that can stand against the combined cause and effect and entropy and complexity? Or against the machine nature of the universe, and machines have makers? But if you have more proof for the existence of God, I think we would all love to read it. Show it to us so that you create love in us, like I created love in you (as you said above).

Cool
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June 20, 2018, 10:55:18 AM
 #9660

Scrolls that was found that proves that the bible is true is a scientific proof. Why? Science wants a tangible proof and that scroll is tangible and proves that all the words on the bible that God shared is true.

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