KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2436 blocks

[Efficiency V]

Block solvers do not get an extra reward.

Kind of off topic, but I think it would be interesting if a pool did provide a small reward to the actual person that find the block.  Nothing big, just something to make it interesting and even more of an intensive to have a high overall hash rate to be the finder.  Possibly a slightly larger portion of the 25 btc than they would have received.. or half the transaction fee amount gained.  The pool would need to of course be transparent as to who the user name or some ID of the finder and the extra reward they received.  Surprised no pool as implemented something like this yet.

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[thedreamer]

Pool and payouts are fine as they are.. No need for more gimicky stuff.

[yslyung]

Block solvers do not get an extra reward.

Kind of off topic, but I think it would be interesting if a pool did provide a small reward to the actual person that find the block.  Nothing big, just something to make it interesting and even more of an intensive to have a high overall hash rate to be the finder.  Possibly a slightly larger portion of the 25 btc than they would have received.. or half the transaction fee amount gained.  The pool would need to of course be transparent as to who the user name or some ID of the finder and the extra reward they received.  Surprised no pool as implemented something like this yet.

RTF Thread Title, something says some giveaway ?
give the transaction amt to finder, yeah prolly then what does the pool eat/run/survive ?

meh ain't wasting my time. outta here looking for blocks.

[firetreeactual]

Block solvers do not get an extra reward.

Kind of off topic, but I think it would be interesting if a pool did provide a small reward to the actual person that find the block.  Nothing big, just something to make it interesting and even more of an intensive to have a high overall hash rate to be the finder.  Possibly a slightly larger portion of the 25 btc than they would have received.. or half the transaction fee amount gained.  The pool would need to of course be transparent as to who the user name or some ID of the finder and the extra reward they received.  Surprised no pool as implemented something like this yet.

Not OT, I think...but rewarding the finder really won't accomplish anything except for adding to the op's work, and taking a small bit from all the pool miners...and the pool op. No miner actually "finds" a block by any specific, personal method or effort...it is truly a pool effort...ergo, offering a reward for finding something that one has no control over finding is somewhat illogical. I think that's why it is not used anywhere. If such a reward were being done simply for making the "finder" feel warm and fuzzy, then I don't think I could go along with that. Mining is its own reward. You earn what you earn, and on some days that is really abundant, and on others it is nonexistent...zip. IMHO.

[kano]

Block solvers do not get an extra reward.

Kind of off topic, but I think it would be interesting if a pool did provide a small reward to the actual person that find the block.  Nothing big, just something to make it interesting and even more of an intensive to have a high overall hash rate to be the finder.  Possibly a slightly larger portion of the 25 btc than they would have received.. or half the transaction fee amount gained.  The pool would need to of course be transparent as to who the user name or some ID of the finder and the extra reward they received.  Surprised no pool as implemented something like this yet.

Not OT, I think...but rewarding the finder really won't accomplish anything except for adding to the op's work, and taking a small bit from all the pool miners...and the pool op. No miner actually "finds" a block by any specific, personal method or effort...it is truly a pool effort...ergo, offering a reward for finding something that one has no control over finding is somewhat illogical. I think that's why it is not used anywhere. If such a reward were being done simply for making the "finder" feel warm and fuzzy, then I don't think I could go along with that. Mining is its own reward. You earn what you earn, and on some days that is really abundant, and on others it is nonexistent...zip. IMHO.

Well, I look at it from a mathematical POV
Same reason why the pool doesn't pay orphans.
Both increase variance and the extra BTC has to come from somewhere ...
Edit: correction - actually they don't increase variance they reduce it a little and lower the average payout a little most of the time.
In the case of a block reward, the side effect is to reduce, by a tiny amount, the average reward of the majority.
Anyone with a BDR >= 1 gains, everyone else loses a little.
(and of course all the txn fees are already part of the total reward, minus the pool fee)

... and on a complete tangent
Kranium won this weeks ~0.25BTC for having the lowest CDF in the competition on Sunday ... I'll send that today
... but that comes out of my pool fee, not everyone else's rewards

[organofcorti]

Block solvers do not get an extra reward.

Kind of off topic, but I think it would be interesting if a pool did provide a small reward to the actual person that find the block.  Nothing big, just something to make it interesting and even more of an intensive to have a high overall hash rate to be the finder.  Possibly a slightly larger portion of the 25 btc than they would have received.. or half the transaction fee amount gained.  The pool would need to of course be transparent as to who the user name or some ID of the finder and the extra reward they received.  Surprised no pool as implemented something like this yet.

Not OT, I think...but rewarding the finder really won't accomplish anything except for adding to the op's work, and taking a small bit from all the pool miners...and the pool op. No miner actually "finds" a block by any specific, personal method or effort...it is truly a pool effort...ergo, offering a reward for finding something that one has no control over finding is somewhat illogical. I think that's why it is not used anywhere. If such a reward were being done simply for making the "finder" feel warm and fuzzy, then I don't think I could go along with that. Mining is its own reward. You earn what you earn, and on some days that is really abundant, and on others it is nonexistent...zip. IMHO.

Well, I look at it from a mathematical POV
Same reason why the pool doesn't pay orphans.
Both increase variance and the extra BTC has to come from somewhere ...
Edit: correction - actually they don't increase variance they reduce it a little and lower the average payout a little most of the time.
In the case of a block reward, the side effect is to reduce, by a tiny amount, the average reward of the majority.
Anyone with a BDR >= 1 gains, everyone else loses a little.
(and of course all the txn fees are already part of the total reward, minus the pool fee)

... and on a complete tangent
Kranium won this weeks ~0.25BTC for having the lowest CDF in the competition on Sunday ... I'll send that today
... but that comes out of my pool fee, not everyone else's rewards

Just on the variance point (and not that it really matters) -- it actually does increase variance of the reward paid to each miner, but not to the pool. A simplified example:

If there are 100 payouts of n btc then the variance is low. If instead there's 1 payout of 2n btc and 99 payouts of of 98/99n btc, then the variance is increased.

Think of variance as 'bumpiness', and it makes more sense.

[jonnybravo0311]

A real-world example is p2pool.  The block finder receives a 0.5% reward, meaning the remaining miners receive 99.5%.

[kano]

I deleted them both

One was advertising
The other was incorrect coz it's not from the miners reward

I don't mind Jonny posting here often with his (vague) advertising but yeah leave the payout promotions of other pools in their pool threads

[citronick]

I deleted them both

One was advertising
The other was incorrect coz it's not from the miners reward

I don't mind Jonny posting here often with his (vague) advertising but yeah leave the payout promotions of other pools in their pool threads

We already have Avalon contest, active thread group, responsive and learned Admins, etc. great bunch of "Kanoes"..... what more do you want?

I have been with other pools before (the ones that shall not be named), I don't think it's as vibrant as kano.is, ..... hey .... one crazy week we had a chicken ritual posting of everything chicken - calling the Rooster god for more blocks.... that really made my day - off topic definitely but worth coming home to spend first hour on computer.

[yslyung]

okok, i'm doing the chicken dance before i go take a nap ...

dance baby dance

bored without blocks.

[philipma1957]

okok, i'm doing the chicken dance before i go take a nap ...

dance baby dance

bored without blocks.

Block block block block block.

Better now?

[dance191]

Block solvers do not get an extra reward.

Kind of off topic, but I think it would be interesting if a pool did provide a small reward to the actual person that find the block.  Nothing big, just something to make it interesting and even more of an intensive to have a high overall hash rate to be the finder.  Possibly a slightly larger portion of the 25 btc than they would have received.. or half the transaction fee amount gained.  The pool would need to of course be transparent as to who the user name or some ID of the finder and the extra reward they received.  Surprised no pool as implemented something like this yet.

I think this is a great idea, if nothing else it is really the only way to effectively stop (or severely discourage) a block withholding attack.  

Say the person who finds the block gets 50% of the block, everyone else splits the other 50%.  Well, if you perform a block withholding attack, you would hurt the pool, but you would hurt yourself as well as you would get rewarded for 50% of your shares and no reward for blocks (as you withhold them).  This hurts the pool, but hurts the withholder a great deal as well.  Under the current system, any block withholder gets 100% for their shares (more or less, depending on luck) and has no contribution to the pool.  Perfect for a block withholder to come in and mess things up.

I'm not saying change the whole pool, but maybe a new pool with a 50/50 option would be nice.  A sort of half pooled mining/half solo mining.  It might be the best of all worlds - the steady income from the pooled mining with the security of solo mining (people would be crazy to block withhold and solo mine).

Personally, I think this is the best way to deal with the biggest threat to the pool.  Anything that makes the pool more secure and helps to guarantee luck is a good thing in my book.  

[donatebitcointome]

I think this is a great idea, if nothing else it is really the only way to effectively stop (or severely discourage) a block withholding attack.  

Say the person who finds the block gets 50% of the block, everyone else splits the other 50%.  Well, if you perform a block withholding attack, you would hurt the pool, but you would hurt yourself as well as you would get rewarded for 50% of your shares and no reward for blocks (as you withhold them).  This hurts the pool, but hurts the withholder a great deal as well.  Under the current system, any block withholder gets 100% for their shares (more or less, depending on luck) and has no contribution to the pool.  Perfect for a block withholder to come in and mess things up.

I'm not saying change the whole pool, but maybe a new pool with a 50/50 option would be nice.  A sort of half pooled mining/half solo mining.  It might be the best of all worlds - the steady income from the pooled mining with the security of solo mining (people would be crazy to block withhold and solo mine).

Personally, I think this is the best way to deal with the biggest threat to the pool.  Anything that makes the pool more secure and helps to guarantee luck is a good thing in my book.  

I think I've read this somewhere in P2pool already implement this except it only give 0.5% more to the block finder NOT 50%. I might be wrong.

[dance191]

I think I've read this somewhere in P2pool already implement this except it only give 0.5% more to the block finder NOT 50%. I might be wrong.

It could be 50/50, or maybe something else like 80/20, I don't know.  Just something that hurts the block withholder enough to severely discourage it, while getting the steady payout of a pool.  I just threw 50/50 out there, but maybe something else is better.  I don't know the exact sweet spot that would discourage a block withholder.  I image a block withholder getting 80% would give up rather quickly and make it not sustainable.  

The other thing that would seal the deal is to block hash rentals as they might unknowingly perform an attack.  However, even under the 80/20 system, any dishonest hash rentals might get paid a low enough amount as to make hash rentals not profitable, so that problem might be solved automatically with an 80/20 payout.  

Just been thinking these things over, contemplating the pros and cons of pooled mining versus solo mining as they each have advantages.  There might be a sweet spot that has all of the advantages and little to no disadvantages.  

[Gren]

Block solvers do not get an extra reward.

Kind of off topic, but I think it would be interesting if a pool did provide a small reward to the actual person that find the block.  Nothing big, just something to make it interesting and even more of an intensive to have a high overall hash rate to be the finder.  Possibly a slightly larger portion of the 25 btc than they would have received.. or half the transaction fee amount gained.  The pool would need to of course be transparent as to who the user name or some ID of the finder and the extra reward they received.  Surprised no pool as implemented something like this yet.

I think this is a great idea, if nothing else it is really the only way to effectively stop (or severely discourage) a block withholding attack.  

Say the person who finds the block gets 50% of the block, everyone else splits the other 50%.  Well, if you perform a block withholding attack, you would hurt the pool, but you would hurt yourself as well as you would get rewarded for 50% of your shares and no reward for blocks (as you withhold them).  This hurts the pool, but hurts the withholder a great deal as well.  Under the current system, any block withholder gets 100% for their shares (more or less, depending on luck) and has no contribution to the pool.  Perfect for a block withholder to come in and mess things up.

I'm not saying change the whole pool, but maybe a new pool with a 50/50 option would be nice.  A sort of half pooled mining/half solo mining.  It might be the best of all worlds - the steady income from the pooled mining with the security of solo mining (people would be crazy to block withhold and solo mine).

Personally, I think this is the best way to deal with the biggest threat to the pool.  Anything that makes the pool more secure and helps to guarantee luck is a good thing in my book.  

That's Just dumb, if any block withholding is done, its just done to be just detrimental to the pool, someone is shooting themseleves in the foot but causing a larger entity(this pool) to bleed out. IE.. lose hashing power and confidence... Your idea would negate most gains of the smaller miners here that have a low chance of hitting a block and picked this place because of maximum return, if you want that make your own pool... i just dont see how thats a good idea
i'm happy with the way it is. when this place is hittin blocks its awesome, no other pool compare

[usukan]

Kinda glad I need heating at present - cos thats all I'm getting. (Edit - no but wait - a BLOCK).

And as for changing things like rewards for block scorers - NO WAY - I like it just the way it is.

[Newko]

The pool is fine the way it is. Paying a premium to the person who finds a block to dissuade block withholding is essentially paying a bribe - like paying "the mob" "insurance money" to make sure nothing bad happens to your store (no offense - I appreciate that you're offering ideas). Kano does multiple checks and statistics to stay on top of this - I trust his skills and efforts. Now, how about another block? I need some green 

[VRobb]

Kano-san has already stated he won't be doing anything like that, besides we've got great giveaways going here as it is, so let's all keep calm and mine on!

[citronick]

I was helping some my friends get the miners tuned in the pool, and I just noticed "Kano" and "ckolivas" in the pool stats.

Since joining the pool last Dec, it never cross my mind to check.

Kano with 3.97THs and ck with 3.38THs ....  I wonder what miner HW are they using? Avalons? Test miners?

[wmabern]

I would like to see that 5.5 Ph\s miner hit something.  Right now they are making a tidy bit from the pool but we don't yet know if they are really contributing.

Is there anything suspicious about that miner that you could think of? They have been here a couple of days and not hit anything. As far as I know they got here Saturday.

The luck sure has slowed down since Saturday's block spree.
Just curious if anyone knows if they have been here before. ??