High Efficiency FPGA & ASIC Bitcoin Mining Devices https://BTCFPGA.com

[Syke]

There is a big difference between a lie and an presumption.

Tom does know what your estimated power figures are. He simply does not believe they are an accurate depiction of your final product. He has stated he believes this is unlikely to be true. This is called a partially informed opinion with bias.

You (Inaba) call into question Toms not-yet-be-released power figures without knowing what they actually are presumed to be. You have formed an opinion based on various assumptions on the technology and design that might be used and with very limited knowledge over his device. This is a largely uninformed and heavily biased conclusion.

The difference (if any) is that Tom does not believe your stated power figures are an accurate depiction of your device. You choose to assume (based on your technical assumptions/assertions) that Toms device cannot be anywhere near his yet-to-be-released power figures.

This is called a difference of opinion on different points of fact about either persons device. Both known and unknown factors.

------------------------------

Further, you have taken it further than simply an opinion and have gone forward  to broadcast assertions (without direct knowledge) that Tom is fleecing/robbing his customers.

Tom admitted that he lied about BFL's power, good enough for me.  It's a shame that he continues to lie to his customers, but that's not really any of my business if he continues to hide the important details about his product.  He's fleecing people for their pre-orders, and that's sad, but there's not much I can do about that.

This steps beyond mere speculation and into the area of Defamation. Possible Libel and Slander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
-----------------------------

Starting in the next few days, I will write an automation script to collect your posts and post them in a thread called:
"Inabas/BFL_Josh Words of the Day".

Every 24 hours your publicly released posts will show up in sequential order for everyone to read. Any Vitrol you wish to commit will be collected there indiscriminately.

People will have a fine opportunity to skim your fine posts of the day in one place. What I hope to achieve is a fact of behavior trending. If the majority of your posts are kind and amiable with your prospective users, customers, and people in general....people will see that. If they are unkind and extremely unproductive (and even financially destructive to your company) they will see that as well.

I suppose that with this, you will either be forced to consider the ramifications of every post you make and modify your behavior OR concrete it to the best of your ability.

If you are seen as helpful, it will show. If you are not, you have only yourself to blame.

I just had to quote this. You said it far better than I could have. Touché!

[1714820669]

1714820669

[gmaxwell]

Please stop reporting this thread. I'm aware of it. I've talked to people and I continue to encourage less dramatic behavior. At the same time, this thread had spawned some interesting discussion and— as much as BFL has found out to great irritation in their own threads— companies don't own their threads in the forum.

This thread is a complete mess and it's very hard to get useful product info out of it— but it was prior to inaba's commentary too. I'd strongly suggest splitting off a product announcement thread with a frequently updated first post. This works fairly successfully for pools and mining software, and while you might not own threads here you do own your own posts which you can edit to keep timely and on topic.

[f41lover]

I really think next step is releasing more specifications, such as power drain, dimensions, and possibly a picture of the prototype or a render of final device. According to Tom we should expect at least some of these steps executed with the new site release. Can't wait for it.
Also, how is the man power sourcing from the forums going ? Please provide us with some insights from your foundry/PCB producer. Are they ready for mass production and you are finalizing details ? Or ? please enlighten us, and sorry for asking too many questions. Keep up the good stuff.

Respect

[AmDD]

Starting in the next few days, I will write an automation script to collect your posts and post them in a thread called:
"Inabas/BFL_Josh Words of the Day".

Every 24 hours your publicly released posts will show up in sequential order for everyone to read. Any Vitrol you wish to commit will be collected there indiscriminately.

People will have a fine opportunity to skim your fine posts of the day in one place. What I hope to achieve is a fact of behavior trending. If the majority of your posts are kind and amiable with your prospective users, customers, and people in general....people will see that. If they are unkind and extremely unproductive (and even financially destructive to your company) they will see that as well.

I hope you do this as I'm pretty sure he edited a post earlier in this thread, although I have no proof. Apparently he has issues with this in the past...

[Inaba]

I hope you do this as I'm pretty sure he edited a post earlier in this thread, although I have no proof. Apparently he has issues with this in the past...

Yep, there it is.  I love when people accuse me of this, because you look like such a dolt when I explain that you can see when a post was edited last if you use the default forum skin... and just like the last dolt who accused me of this, you are also full of so much fail.

PuertoLibre: I look forward to your compilation.  I have a request, though - please write the script so it includes a nice back catalog as well, going back a couple months at least.  It won't be as much fun if it's just from this point forward.  Also, please be sure to link each post to the thread it came from, so people can find it easily just by clicking on it.  I'm pretty excited for this, to be honest.  I feel like a celebrity!

[PuertoLibre]

Starting in the next few days, I will write an automation script to collect your posts and post them in a thread called:
"Inabas/BFL_Josh Words of the Day".

Every 24 hours your publicly released posts will show up in sequential order for everyone to read. Any Vitrol you wish to commit will be collected there indiscriminately.

People will have a fine opportunity to skim your fine posts of the day in one place. What I hope to achieve is a fact of behavior trending. If the majority of your posts are kind and amiable with your prospective users, customers, and people in general....people will see that. If they are unkind and extremely unproductive (and even financially destructive to your company) they will see that as well.

I hope you do this as I'm pretty sure he edited a post earlier in this thread, although I have no proof. Apparently he has issues with this in the past...

I have data mining software and comparison software. So even if he does edit his posts it would be fairly easy to find out where and what was edited out.

I could do a similar thread for Tom and NgZhang. If nothing else, it would show people what the main representatives of each company on the forum are saying and how they say it. The quality and characteristics of these response types will undoubtedly determine if people stay with a particular company or not.

If a representative behavior is unbecoming or tragically undermines their company reputation, I am sure they will have their own incentive for modifying their behavior and being careful of what and how they post.

My only question is which corner of the forum is the best place to put it?

[poon-TANG]

1. He is countering speculation with speculation. When BFL has actual prototype numbers the 1 gh/s per watt is still just speculation not fact.
2. He said it is competitive, how does refusing to designed what competitive mean equal a lie?

Stop trolling. Go do your customer service job instead of trying to ruin what little reputation BFL has left.

Countering speculation with speculation?  How do you figure that?  Can you show me where our power usage is speculation?

As for point number two, if you'll stop and read before flying off and hitting that reply button, you'll understand that I already said that if he's defining competitive as some ridiculous multiple of other offerings, then it's not a lie.  But the fact that he's refusing to even define what "competitive" means is telling in and of itself.

PS - My job isn't customer service, it's operations.

Yeah. Your customer service officer is probably not on duty. As always. BFL just do not care about their customers. Unlike Tom who do put in the time and effort to stay in contact and keep his customers up to date.

BFL has answered every email I have sent them about my pre-orders. It usually takes 2 days. Hell I even changed an order and received an answer within hours.

[Kingfihserb90]

@ cablepair

I sent you a message regarding my recent order. Just thought posting here might be better.

Get back to me when you can, thanks!

[Zeek_W]

Inaba/Josh = whole reason I abandoned mining one of my bigger rigs on his pool, and why I canceled my BFL preorder

[Carlton Banks]

Please stop reporting this thread. I'm aware of it. I've talked to people and I continue to encourage less dramatic behavior. At the same time, this thread had spawned some interesting discussion and— as much as BFL has found out to great irritation in their own threads— companies don't own their threads in the forum.

This thread is a complete mess and it's very hard to get useful product info out of it— but it was prior to inaba's commentary too. I'd strongly suggest splitting off a product announcement thread with a frequently updated first post. This works fairly successfully for pools and mining software, and while you might not own threads here you do own your own posts which you can edit to keep timely and on topic.

Could we not reasonably say that if Tom did take such action, and then if Inaba shows up trolling in this new "product announcement thread" (and not the designated troll-friendly "product discussion thread"), then you'll ban his ass? I'm really beginning to think that would be appropriate, as even though I don't think Tom's blameless here, Inaba's very much the worse offender and also the one who refuses to leave it alone, and his childish attitude is really starting to annoy me.


Go home Josh, literally nobody (except possibly your boss) wants you shit-talking in this thread. Stop please.

[kano]

My only question is which corner of the forum is the best place to put it?

Keep in mind that the forum itself is not secure from manipulation or deletion of posts.  You may want to find a third party host.

Yeah scroll back a few posts to one of my recent ones and you'll see it says gmaxwell edited it ... he put the stupid comment on the end (page 72) But I forgive him because he has a really awesome beard.

[Miles Bennett Dyson]

Will this work with EU power voltage? (220-230v) Or would I need a transformer?

Thanks

[cedivad]

Will this work with EU power voltage? (220-230v) Or would I need a transformer?

Thanks

+1

maybe during this weekend cp will release this info too.

[cablepair]

Good Morning,


Right now it looks like we are just over 800 units ordered (including both the 27gh/s and 54gh/s models) Just to be safe I am going to stop taking pre-orders at midnight tonight EST. I want to have a little bit of a cushion to make sure everyone who is expecting a device in the first shipment will get one.

Tomorrow I will run the reports and take the the time to manually go through the orders and get an exact number of devices ordered - I will publish this info as soon as it's available.

I am sorry but I wont be taking pre-orders for the second batch until January 1st 2013, things are just so hectic right now and I need to be able to focus on the logistics and planning required to get 800+ boards loaded, tested and shipped, throw in some time to help with tech support and customer service of first customers - maybe I will even get a little rest

Speaking of that I still need some man-power - I really only have 2 confirmed people that I know for sure will be there. If you have sent me an application, I have it saved and I will get back to you when I have the time, also please don't apply for this unless you are 100% sure you will be able to do it, it will require at least a 7 days of 8-10 hour days, you will get paid a decent wage, you will need to find lodging in upstate NY - any serious candidates - send me an email and I will get back to you when I can, realistically though I will probably fill the gap with local IT temps, but if your local to me or crazy enough to fly here and get a hotel room just for the chance to spend some time playing with some cool hardware than send me an application email and I will get back to you.

The new web site (which is really just an open cart theme) should be completed already, I have the latest version of opencart setup and will be moving the database over today for the new site. During this time the site will be down to prevent changes in the Database while its exported and imported into the new site. I will be working on getting this online today and with the new site launch will have some more hardware details which I know everyone is eager to find out.

and as I promised before - If for some reason the web site does not launch today I will still release the specs tonight at midnight (EST)

I am going to be extremely busy today - the best way to get a hold of me today would be to email me or catch me on irc (or skype at btcwebhost)

any phone calls to my business line will be returned tomorrow

thanks and have a great day
Tom


edit: People are asking about ModMiner Quad trade ins. If you have ModMiner quad's that you would like to trade in please send me an email and we will work something out.

[RHA]

Starting in the next few days, I will write an automation script to collect your posts and post them in a thread called:
"Inabas/BFL_Josh Words of the Day".
Every 24 hours your publicly released posts will show up in sequential order for everyone to read.

I have data mining software and comparison software. So even if he does edit his posts it would be fairly easy to find out where and what was edited out.

I could do a similar thread for Tom and NgZhang. If nothing else, it would show people what the main representatives of each company on the forum are saying and how they say it. The quality and characteristics of these response types will undoubtedly determine if people stay with a particular company or not.
(...)
My only question is which corner of the forum is the best place to put it?

PuertoLibre, you have data mining software, but you haven't found a simple forum feature called "Show the last posts of this person"?
And you plan to put a lot of effort into duplicating of this feature?
Look here (sorted by user number):
Inaba: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198;sa=showPosts
cablepair: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=10804;sa=showPosts
Ngzhang: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=38132;sa=showPosts
BFL: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=44366;sa=showPosts
BFL-Engineer: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52443;sa=showPosts
BFL_Josh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63314;sa=showPosts
PuertoLibre: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=66605;sa=showPosts

BTW: It seems BFL* posts are very polite. It's only Inaba who is often too hasty and not so polite, however he openly declared himself to be such.
Sometimes he overreacts, but to be honest, he usually has the right to.
Strange, people were not so upset when the BFL was attacked by many, like now when Inaba alone asks for fairness.

[heinz]

Anyone have an idea what fees will need to be paid when this is shipped to Canada? Maybe those who ordered fpga's will know? Cablepair?

[regular]

Something about this bothers me.

Why?  seems like a reasonable thing to do to ensure fair delivery to everyone instead of leaving you in the dark wondering when you'll get it.

[SAC]

Something about this bothers me.

Why?  seems like a reasonable thing to do to ensure fair delivery to everyone instead of leaving you in the dark wondering when you'll get it.

Ah but that don't fit the FUD campaign by BFL so you get the concern troll expressed in that post, (Edit) another example of this technique below..

Nothing malicious intended. It just... bothers me. My instinct was to place an order after reading that pre-orders for batch 1 were ending. After I let it sink in, I will be waiting.

I think I'm most bothered that "pre-orders end tonight" is combined with "I'll release specs immediately after pre-orders end".

[Epoch]

Something about this bothers me.

Nothing malicious intended. It just... bothers me. My instinct was to place an order after reading that pre-orders for batch 1 were ending. After I let it sink in, I will be waiting.

I think I'm most bothered that "pre-orders end tonight" is combined with "I'll release specs immediately after pre-orders end".

Agreed. It it fair to expect customers to pre-order without having solid specs available to them? 800 pre-orders seem to suggest that many customers are ok with this. That is, of course, their choice and their risk.

Does anyone know the official refund policy? If someone has a bASIC preorder but doesn't like the specs that come out after midnight, can they get a full refund?

I would consider ordering a bASIC but without having specs on which to base a reasonable decision, I cannot justify it; unfortunately those specs won't be released until pre-orders are cut off ... thus I too will wait.

[dani]

yup, this puts me in a pretty shitty situation. I dont mind if it will use too much power, because i dont pay for electricity (no, i dont live at my parents.), but it will get difficult to get good cooling in my cubby if i put 4 of them in there.. grml