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jimmothy
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April 17, 2014, 10:59:03 AM
Last edit: April 17, 2014, 11:09:31 AM by jimmothy |
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The beauty of mining is it can be situated anywhere there's network access and power. 30% or far more can be saved on where it's situated. That also is offset by lower startup costs.
Googles mega expensive, highly engineered, sea water cooled datacenter in finland has a PUE of more than 1.06 so knc must have a PUE of around 1.15 where as immersion cooling can be as low as 1.01 What seems like a better choice: Option A 10 x $100,000 1MW containers @ 1.01 PUE Or Option B 1 x giant $5,000,000 10MW aircraft hanger @ 1.15-1.3 PUE |
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necro_nemesis
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April 17, 2014, 11:18:06 AM |
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As ridiculous as it may sound I would be looking at cold war leftovers in the form of abandoned hangars and silos.
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aahzmundus
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April 17, 2014, 11:26:51 AM |
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As ridiculous as it may sound I would be looking at cold war leftovers in the form of abandoned hangars and silos.
Iceland, Cheep electricity... cold climate. If I were to set up a new major mining operation, I would go to iceland. |
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jimmothy
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April 17, 2014, 11:40:47 AM |
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As ridiculous as it may sound I would be looking at cold war leftovers in the form of abandoned hangars and silos.
Iceland, Cheep electricity... cold climate. If I were to set up a new major mining operation, I would go to iceland. Even if you could get the building for free and managed to acheive an impressive air cooled PUE of 1.15 you would still be better off with immersion cooling. You would get your money back in only a year from electricity savings alone. |
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bitcoin.newsfeed
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April 17, 2014, 01:58:49 PM |
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What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now? Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe. What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah.  |
... Question Everything, Believe Nothing ...
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bitfair
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April 17, 2014, 02:12:54 PM |
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What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now?
A partnership. Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe.
They have (repeatedly) said that the HK datacenter will be used. What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. If he hasn't been communicating, how can you conclude he hasn't been doing anything? |
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bitcoin.newsfeed
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April 17, 2014, 02:29:18 PM |
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What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now?
A partnership. Partnership? It was only one project and ASICminer was a customer. Now AC can sell their technology to anybody. No share from profit for ASICminer, its completely different company. Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe.
They have (repeatedly) said that the HK datacenter will be used. Promises. And what after that? What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. If he hasn't been communicating, how can you conclude he hasn't been doing anything? Because I see no results and no communication about whats happening? No news were always bad news here. |
... Question Everything, Believe Nothing ...
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stompysteve
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April 17, 2014, 02:53:02 PM |
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maybe everyone is busy optimizing before they come out with another statement on speed on chips......
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MichaelBliss
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April 17, 2014, 03:13:46 PM |
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What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now?
A partnership. Partnership? It was only one project and ASICminer was a customer. Now AC can sell their technology to anybody. No share from profit for ASICminer, its completely different company. Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe.
They have (repeatedly) said that the HK datacenter will be used. Promises. And what after that? What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. If he hasn't been communicating, how can you conclude he hasn't been doing anything? Because I see no results and no communication about whats happening? No news were always bad news here. In that case... Stop whining and sell your shares already. Or do you just come on here saying a lot of stupid angry things in a lame attempt to drive the price down? |
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bitfair
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April 17, 2014, 03:18:48 PM |
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Partnership? It was only one project and ASICminer was a customer. Now AC can sell their technology to anybody. No share from profit for ASICminer, its completely different company.
What's your point? It's obviously a strategic partnership that they both stand to profit from. Promises. And what after that?
Well, you asked if AM is "officially building any mining farms", and the answer is "Yes, they are officially doing so." I imagine that after they are officially finished building it, it will officially be put to some use. Because I see no results and no communication about whats happening? No news were always bad news here.
Engineering samples sent out to customers doesn't count as "results"? In fact, there have been plenty of "results" and FC actually keeps us relatively updated on the progress and is pretty transparent about the operations. Three weeks may be longer than you (and I, for that matter) would like to wait between updates, but considering the pace at which these things move it's not too bad. |
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bitsalame
Donator
Hero Member
 Offline
Activity: 714
Merit: 510
Preaching the gospel of Satoshi
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April 17, 2014, 04:46:01 PM |
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What has ASICminer in common with immersion cooling from Allied Control other than one small room filled with "proof-of-concept" which is anyway in every day loss right now?
A partnership. Partnership? It was only one project and ASICminer was a customer. Now AC can sell their technology to anybody. No share from profit for ASICminer, its completely different company. Is ASICminer officially building any mining farms ? No. Unofficially behind our backs? Maybe.
They have (repeatedly) said that the HK datacenter will be used. Promises. And what after that? What is crucial is timing. And I see only delays and empty promises over last 6-8 months here ! Timing is everything and Friedcat is very slow. He knew like 6 months about tape-out timeline, he should have everything in place ... and now, when chips are finally out he is unable to do anything for 3 weeks? And no communication with shareholders? What the... ? So much for "overpromise and overdeliver" ... yeah. If he hasn't been communicating, how can you conclude he hasn't been doing anything? Because I see no results and no communication about whats happening? No news were always bad news here. Yeah, you are absolutely right. Sell me all your shares right now, I'll take that risk for you. |
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necro_nemesis
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April 17, 2014, 05:43:28 PM
Last edit: April 17, 2014, 06:16:31 PM by necro_nemesis |
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FC stated he needed to address PR and that hasn't occured. From there on I don't get the impression anything has derailed from the plan which offered three courses: selling, mining, and franchising; the greater emphasis of which is going to be based on best return at the time production runs were projected to hit the street. I am hopeful a high percentage will go to mining and that a plan is put in place to create a sustainable revenue stream for the company. Regardless the company should be able profit now that Gen3 is establshed and show an income. By comparison there is no income to be had from BTC sitting in a wallet. If you go back through this thread from the origins of AM the nexus of issues are PR related so what we are currently experiencing with respect to PR is not unprecidented. O/T From their twitter account it looks like RM got the 4 X ASIC board stuffed and are testing.  |
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Bonam
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April 17, 2014, 08:29:59 PM |
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Immersion cooling might make sense for a super reliable set-up and forget type system. But for a real datacenter with essentially prototype equipment? People need to go in there to perform maintenance, replace aging/malfunctioning units, diagnose errors. Ease of use, accessibility, having a setup more familiar to a wider range of personnel with only standard training/experience are all of great value. How long does it take to drain the tanks if someone needs to go in and fiddle with one of the boxes? Or do you leave malfunctioning units alone to not disturb the rest of the system, and if so, what's the cost of that over time? What kind of training do personnel need to safely work with these systems and what is the cost of these personnel relative to those who can work with a standard data center?
In short, immersion cooling might be of interest in specific applications such as military, security agency, and some of the largest companies where maximum performance density trumps everything else and billions of dollars are available for specialized facilities, procedures, and personnel. But for a typical start-up company that has to worry about capital costs, is juggling personnel among all kinds of tasks that they are learning on the fly, and is working with prototype systems that don't have years of reliability heritage already established... not worth it.
People seem to forget all the complications associated with working with non-standard prototype systems and just look at a few % savings in electricity cost, but that's not nearly the whole picture.
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rudrigorc2
Legendary
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Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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April 17, 2014, 10:08:58 PM |
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Id like to see a better picture and macro shot of that chip.
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jimmothy
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April 17, 2014, 11:21:51 PM |
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How long does it take to drain the tanks if someone needs to go in and fiddle with one of the boxes? Or do you leave malfunctioning units alone to not disturb the rest of the system, and if so, what's the cost of that over time? What kind of training do personnel need to safely work with these systems and what is the cost of these personnel relative to those who can work with a standard data center?
You don't need to drain the tanks. You can simply pull out the malfunctioning board. Training shouldn't be too different from a normal datacenter. A few % of savings may not seem worth it yet while the technology is still immature but once it is refined and perfected there will be no such thing as air cooled datacenters (no large ones at least) |
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Bonam
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April 17, 2014, 11:41:32 PM |
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How long does it take to drain the tanks if someone needs to go in and fiddle with one of the boxes? Or do you leave malfunctioning units alone to not disturb the rest of the system, and if so, what's the cost of that over time? What kind of training do personnel need to safely work with these systems and what is the cost of these personnel relative to those who can work with a standard data center?
You don't need to drain the tanks. You can simply pull out the malfunctioning board. Training shouldn't be too different from a normal datacenter. A few % of savings may not seem worth it yet while the technology is still immature but once it is refined and perfected there will be no such thing as air cooled datacenters (no large ones at least) Computer chips that have needed cooling have existed for decades, and immersion cooling has existed for decades, and immersion cooled systems have already been used where it makes sense to do so. I'm not seeing any particular reason why the there is suddenly going to be an imminent revolution in how cooling is done for the majority of datacenter applications. |
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jimmothy
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April 17, 2014, 11:52:26 PM |
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Computer chips that have needed cooling have existed for decades, and immersion cooling has existed for decades, and immersion cooled systems have already been used where it makes sense to do so. I'm not seeing any particular reason why the there is suddenly going to be an imminent revolution in how cooling is done for the majority of datacenter applications.
Has 2 phase immersion cooling existed for decades? I think we will see a revolution as soon as the big players like google realize how much money/space/heat savings they would get from a little 2 phase liquid. Coolermaster, Intel, and I'm sure many other companies are already working on prototypes/concepts for 2 phase. I think it is only a matter of time before it becomes the norm unless a significant drawback is discovered. |
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bitcoin.newsfeed
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April 18, 2014, 12:02:52 AM |
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In that case... Stop whining and sell your shares already. Or do you just come on here saying a lot of stupid angry things in a lame attempt to drive the price down?
No sorry, I have hundreds thousands of euros investment here, i'll be no quiet here, sorry. I need answers and results, its not fucking church money here and no, i don't want to sell at 0.5 BTC/share ... no comment. worst "investment" in my life |
... Question Everything, Believe Nothing ...
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Xu
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
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April 18, 2014, 12:22:43 AM |
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In that case... Stop whining and sell your shares already. Or do you just come on here saying a lot of stupid angry things in a lame attempt to drive the price down?
No sorry, I have hundreds thousands of euros investment here, i'll be no quiet here, sorry. I need answers and results, its not fucking church money here and no, i don't want to sell at 0.5 BTC/share ... no comment. worst "investment" in my life Seems to me if you are so deeply invested and want the price to go up, you should perhaps not be bashing the company but instead talk it up, or at least keep silent. |
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Bonam
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April 18, 2014, 01:00:16 AM |
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In that case... Stop whining and sell your shares already. Or do you just come on here saying a lot of stupid angry things in a lame attempt to drive the price down?
No sorry, I have hundreds thousands of euros investment here, i'll be no quiet here, sorry. I need answers and results, its not fucking church money here and no, i don't want to sell at 0.5 BTC/share ... no comment. worst "investment" in my life You invested "hundreds of thousands of euros" into something you randomly read about on an internet forum? PM me for some exciting investment opportunities I have for you!  |
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