ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[BitThink]

0.6 today....ehehehe, invest or sell? :OOOO

buy of course, just wait what will happen when we get the 500 Thash of blades and when the gen 2 is out... the shares are at bargain price now

Believe me or not, the liquidity is gone. It is less possible to see the price fluctuate a lot on good/bad news any more. The value of direct shares now has to be based on dividend. We can count how much dividend we get now when AM had the largest advantage. It's not likely next year will be better.

what are you talking about? there are hundreds buy orders only on Havelock. I can hardly imagine that the price would drop to 0.5 or lower because of several perks that asicminer has:

- smart, trustworthy and able management
- cheap workforce and "invincible" price on chips and boards
- cheap electricity in China
- good amount of assets for reinvestment

of course the competition is stronger than ever and that has obviously shown on the actual share price, however I believe that AM will have a strong position to compete against anyone (especially because nobody can create cheaper hardware than chinese)

Yes, all these advantages can support AM to survive for 1 year or 2 years, but nothing will help AM to provide similar dividend as this year. Even friedcat said his objective is single digit profit as traditional industry in 2014. I am not saying AM price will go to 0, I am just saying there's nothing in friedcat's update can support us to expect any upside with current price.

As for the liquidity, you can easily compare the volume before and after closing of BTCT. Now it's the winter in BTC stock world and all the bubbles are popped. It takes a long time for the recovery, let alone the next bubble.

[Lohoris]

Havelock isn't accepting new securities.

This means that they are considering if they can continue to operate as they are, of will they too forced to introduce restrictions or close down.

I'm glad I chose to wait for my shares to be converted to direct.
Of course not as much as I would if I just sold them high instead.

[Lohoris]

On the other hand, did any other bitcoin asic company consider broadening their scope, like AM revealed in their last update?

[Puppet]

On the other hand, did any other bitcoin asic company consider broadening their scope, like AM revealed in their last update?

bitcoin asics is a once in a lifetime opportunity. being able to develop a chip so simple it takes only a few engineers a few weeks to design and selling tens of millions of dollars worth of them at 10x or 100x intels margins, I've never seen that before  and don't expect I will  ever see it again.

[romerun]

At this point we just have to wait for a decentralize exchange project to mature and friedcat moves all the shares to it.

[wtfvanity]

That doesn't sound nice. Investors want golden showers!

ewwww

[canth]

Network hashrate has risen to 2300TH.Who's driving this boom？Bitfury,KNC or, the 500TH of AM?

KNC has shipped at least 700 devices with over 1000 left to go. Presuming 75% of these are 500GH units, that's 350 TH alone. Sure, there are gripes about some instability, fires and whatnot, but my devices are for the most part running well (now).

[runeks]

Looking to borrow 100 ASICMiner shares for no more than 6 months at 50% yearly interest.

I am looking for someone to borrow 100 ASICMiner shares from. Either direct shares or shares on Havelock. I really want to borrow them from a single person, if possible.

I will be paying 50% annualized interest every week on the total value of the shares at the purchase date, according to Havelock. Interest will be paid once every week to an address of your choosing.

Example: Right now, AM1 is around BTC0.655 on Havelock. 100 shares are thus worth BTC65.5. If I were to borrow the 100 shares today, I would pay 0.7806355% of this amount every week, until I pay back the shares. At current prices (BTC0.655 per share) this is 0.005113163 per share per week. I may choose to pay you back the shares at any time within the 6 month period.

So in other words, if you are planning on holding ASICMiner shares for at least 6 months, and you think dividends will go below BTC0.005 per share, this is a chance to lock in the dividend payment of your share.

On the date of purchase, I will deposit the total market price of the 100 shares (currently BTC65.5) into an address that will act as collateral for the purchase. I have contacted John K., requesting him to act as a dispute mediator, and holder of one of the keys that will release the coins in this 2-of-3 multi-signature address (the two other keys being yours and mine). This address is the proof that I can fulfill my obligation, and its balance must never fall below 100% of the market price of the total number of shares.

Due to the volatility of of the share price, I have a period of one week to deposit the appropriate amount to the address, to cover at least 100% of the market price of the 100 shares. If I fail to do this, you will have the right to issue three warnings (a warning constitutes sending me a PM notifying me that I have failed to post sufficient collateral), spaced no less than 24 hours apart. If after these three warnings I fail to deposit the sufficient amount of funds to the collateral address, John K. will send entire balance of the address to an address of your choice. Of course, I have no incentive to let this happen, but it is an insurance that you will not suffer a loss from entering into this contract.

Please contact me via PM if you are interested. As I said, I am waiting for an answer from John K. regarding the escrow service (I just sent the request 10 minutes ago). So this contract depends on his willingness to act as a dispute mediator.

[neilol]

Looking to borrow 100 ASICMiner shares for no more than 6 months at 50% yearly interest.

I am looking for someone to borrow 100 ASICMiner shares from. Either direct shares or shares on Havelock. I really want to borrow them from a single person, if possible.

I will be paying 50% annualized interest every week on the total value of the shares at the purchase date, according to Havelock. Interest will be paid once every week to an address of your choosing.

Example: Right now, AM1 is around BTC0.655 on Havelock. 100 shares are thus worth BTC65.5. If I were to borrow the 100 shares today, I would pay 0.7806355% of this amount every week, until I pay back the shares. At current prices (BTC0.655 per share) this is 0.005113163 per share per week. I may choose to pay you back the shares at any time within the 6 month period.

So in other words, if you are planning on holding ASICMiner shares for at least 6 months, and you think dividends will go below BTC0.005 per share, this is a chance to lock in the dividend payment of your share.

On the date of purchase, I will deposit the total market price of the 100 shares (currently BTC65.5) into an address that will act as collateral for the purchase. I have contacted John K., requesting him to act as a dispute mediator, and holder of one of the keys that will release the coins in this 2-of-3 multi-signature address (the two other keys being yours and mine). This address is the proof that I can fulfill my obligation, and its balance must never fall below 100% of the market price of the total number of shares.

Due to the volatility of of the share price, I have a period of one week to deposit the appropriate amount to the address, to cover at least 100% of the market price of the 100 shares. If I fail to do this, you will have the right to issue three warnings (a warning constitutes sending me a PM notifying me that I have failed to post sufficient collateral), spaced no less than 24 hours apart. If after these three warnings I fail to deposit the sufficient amount of funds to the collateral address, John K. will send entire balance of the address to an address of your choice. Of course, I have no incentive to let this happen, but it is an insurance that you will not suffer a loss from entering into this contract.

Please contact me via PM if you are interested. As I said, I am waiting for an answer from John K. regarding the escrow service (I just sent the request 10 minutes ago). So this contract depends on his willingness to act as a dispute mediator.

Pretty bearish 0.o. Why not try to get someone to write puts?

[runeks]

Pretty bearish 0.o. Why not try to get someone to write puts?

Cause they'd have to reserve the full value of the put options as collateral for me to agree to that (just as I'm doing myself with this contract), and people generally don't want to do that. Also, this earns a dividend similar to holding the AM stock, so it's exactly equivalent to holding AM long term, and locking in the dividend for the duration of the loan.

[chriswilmer]

Pretty bearish 0.o. Why not try to get someone to write puts?

Cause they'd have to reserve the full value of the put options as collateral for me to agree to that (just as I'm doing myself with this contract), and people generally don't want to do that. Also, this earns a dividend similar to holding the AM stock, so it's exactly equivalent to holding AM long term, and locking in the dividend for the duration of the loan.

Is it bearish? I guess I'm not understanding. I thought Runeks was basically conveying that he's a bull at these prices, and he thinks the dividends will be higher than the person on the other end of the deal. No?

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

I haven't seen "Friedcat for president" picture for a while.

What happened with ASICminer? Sorry guys... with so long head start, it seems only for me as a massive failure? Or .... ?

What happened with all those thousands and thousands of BTCs which were mined when ASICminer had 20% of network? And company is only now collecting funds for R&D ? What they did last 4months?

ASICminer is not increasing hashrate for longer than 4 months? Instead of it AM is signing private deals with "china-mining-mafia-friends" about which we do not have a clue... "franchising"?

What about promise to hold minimum 10% of the network? What is happening is not a momentary thing, we are weeks and weeks under 10%. Hashrate isnt/cant be(why?) increasing. Share price fell from 2.5 to 0.7 and many of new investors who believe in ASICminer and Friedcat lost tens of thousands of dollars.

At least we have updates now. Although many times it's hard to tell what Friedcat really wanted to communicate and the meaning of updates is not explained.

I know, I have a lot of questions, but i am really concerned about all of this.

[supert]

Pretty bearish 0.o. Why not try to get someone to write puts?

Cause they'd have to reserve the full value of the put options as collateral for me to agree to that (just as I'm doing myself with this contract), and people generally don't want to do that. Also, this earns a dividend similar to holding the AM stock, so it's exactly equivalent to holding AM long term, and locking in the dividend for the duration of the loan.

Is it bearish? I guess I'm not understanding. I thought Runeks was basically conveying that he's a bull at these prices, and he thinks the dividends will be higher than the person on the other end of the deal. No?

Yes, it's a div swap / cash n carry.

[hlynur]

since when is asicminer.info down?
are they working on a new layout?
other site asicminer.co had seen last update in may.
I really hope AM finally gets a decent web appearance.
(during the downtime of bitcointalk the huge dependance on this forum became obvious. Reddit was the only other source for any info)

[hlynur]

snip
Saying that... i believe in Asicminer and Friedcat very much.

same thoughts here...I'm invested relatively small though. (still enough that it hurts to watch )
at this point there's no sense in selling shares anyway (would be more than 70% loss for me)...I saw it as a plausible alternative to preordering mining equipment (during ongoing nextgen-change) or buying shares of scammy-looking mining companies (like labcoin)
the only positive aspect that's left for me right now is that friedcat is sitting in china and btc is showing higher volumes on chinese market which could probably result in a growing demand for mining hardware there.

[ninjarobot]

I haven't seen "Friedcat for president" picture for a while.

[kibblesnbits]

Too funny. Best thing is that there's some granny out there that's become semi-famous and doesn't even know it...

[pastfarian]

Probably because it isn't online yet, i'm sure if it was they would send to found blocks to their mining address so everybody can see, which is conceivably why they send the franchise payments there.. you can't see it because it hasn't happened.

Network hashrate has risen to 2300TH.Who's driving this boom？Bitfury,KNC or, the 500TH of AM?

Don't know if http://erpao.info is official, but it still reports 47 TH/s (in solo mining).

It is the unofficial but accurate record.

It seems the hash rate in the new data center, which should increase 3-5TH daily according to friedcat, is not included in this stat yet?

[pastfarian]

On the other hand, did any other bitcoin asic company consider broadening their scope, like AM revealed in their last update?

bitcoin asics is a once in a lifetime opportunity. being able to develop a chip so simple it takes only a few engineers a few weeks to design and selling tens of millions of dollars worth of them at 10x or 100x intels margins, I've never seen that before  and don't expect I will  ever see it again.

+1

I can't imagine how these distractions with immersion cooling and 50 port usb hubs is even worth there time with everything at risk and to gain from ASICs, i mean hey, immersion cooling is super cool (pun intended), and it can potentially be a critical piece of the puzzle but to see that getting mentioned in press releases while competition is shipping 28nm, man it makes me nervous that i hope they didn't get sidetracked and forget the reason why people invested in them (ASICs).

[Jutarul]

cross-post because the discussion of pricing hardware is also relevant for ASICMINER (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg3339723#msg3339723)

All ASIC companies are pushing out too many chips too fast.  3600 coins per day is just not enough to spread around for the amount of money people have dumped into hardware costs.  There are too many people involved.  Too much greed by ASIC manufacturers.  And too many chips.  It would be far more wise to get refunds and buy btc directly.  The reward for mining is in the hands of the elite now.  Even people that dumped in 5-6 figures are in trouble unless they just bought chips.  You need to be capable of making your own PCB's for as cheap as possible now.

The problem is not that they produce chips too fast. It's their valuation/pricing. Free market valuation of hash power tends to be above expected yield (i.e. a net loss for the miner) for two reasons:
a) Miners are taking to much risk when valuing the hash power at the "edge", i.e. close to the expected yield. Exponential rise causes slight timing and projection errors to easily cause the profitability to fluctuate between -70% - +200%.
b) Companies have an incentive to engage in mining activities to make their R&D back, which creates a vacuum for the sales and at the same time depreciates the expected yield. Just look at ghash.io. I don't know whether the size of that farm was anticipated.

The pricing scheme for hash power is the big issue here, not its yield. Given point a), failure to price correctly causes either the miner to make a huge loss or profit. This needs to change and the first companies who can create a scheme which works for miners and companies alike will be the innovators here.

A good pricing scheme has two features:
i) it removes the risk/unknowns effects of network growth projections on the profitability of mining (operational profit certainty)
ii) it instantly shows whether the miner is willing to mine for profit or for loss (declaration of intent)

Unless i) and ii) are fixed, all missed projections will cause the ASIC companies to look fraudulent, since it causes a net wealth transfer from the mining community towards the ASIC producers.

On that note it may be interesting to establish a shareholder sentiment on the pricing strategy for ASICMINER hardware, between
a) aggressive (maximizing profits)
b) fair/honest
c) competitive (undercutting competition)

Maybe someone would want to organize a poll?