ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[ninjarobot]

I haven't seen "Friedcat for president" picture for a while.

[kibblesnbits]

Too funny. Best thing is that there's some granny out there that's become semi-famous and doesn't even know it...

[pastfarian]

Probably because it isn't online yet, i'm sure if it was they would send to found blocks to their mining address so everybody can see, which is conceivably why they send the franchise payments there.. you can't see it because it hasn't happened.

Network hashrate has risen to 2300TH.Who's driving this boom？Bitfury,KNC or, the 500TH of AM?

Don't know if http://erpao.info is official, but it still reports 47 TH/s (in solo mining).

It is the unofficial but accurate record.

It seems the hash rate in the new data center, which should increase 3-5TH daily according to friedcat, is not included in this stat yet?

[pastfarian]

On the other hand, did any other bitcoin asic company consider broadening their scope, like AM revealed in their last update?

bitcoin asics is a once in a lifetime opportunity. being able to develop a chip so simple it takes only a few engineers a few weeks to design and selling tens of millions of dollars worth of them at 10x or 100x intels margins, I've never seen that before  and don't expect I will  ever see it again.

+1

I can't imagine how these distractions with immersion cooling and 50 port usb hubs is even worth there time with everything at risk and to gain from ASICs, i mean hey, immersion cooling is super cool (pun intended), and it can potentially be a critical piece of the puzzle but to see that getting mentioned in press releases while competition is shipping 28nm, man it makes me nervous that i hope they didn't get sidetracked and forget the reason why people invested in them (ASICs).

[Jutarul]

cross-post because the discussion of pricing hardware is also relevant for ASICMINER (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg3339723#msg3339723)

All ASIC companies are pushing out too many chips too fast.  3600 coins per day is just not enough to spread around for the amount of money people have dumped into hardware costs.  There are too many people involved.  Too much greed by ASIC manufacturers.  And too many chips.  It would be far more wise to get refunds and buy btc directly.  The reward for mining is in the hands of the elite now.  Even people that dumped in 5-6 figures are in trouble unless they just bought chips.  You need to be capable of making your own PCB's for as cheap as possible now.

The problem is not that they produce chips too fast. It's their valuation/pricing. Free market valuation of hash power tends to be above expected yield (i.e. a net loss for the miner) for two reasons:
a) Miners are taking to much risk when valuing the hash power at the "edge", i.e. close to the expected yield. Exponential rise causes slight timing and projection errors to easily cause the profitability to fluctuate between -70% - +200%.
b) Companies have an incentive to engage in mining activities to make their R&D back, which creates a vacuum for the sales and at the same time depreciates the expected yield. Just look at ghash.io. I don't know whether the size of that farm was anticipated.

The pricing scheme for hash power is the big issue here, not its yield. Given point a), failure to price correctly causes either the miner to make a huge loss or profit. This needs to change and the first companies who can create a scheme which works for miners and companies alike will be the innovators here.

A good pricing scheme has two features:
i) it removes the risk/unknowns effects of network growth projections on the profitability of mining (operational profit certainty)
ii) it instantly shows whether the miner is willing to mine for profit or for loss (declaration of intent)

Unless i) and ii) are fixed, all missed projections will cause the ASIC companies to look fraudulent, since it causes a net wealth transfer from the mining community towards the ASIC producers.

On that note it may be interesting to establish a shareholder sentiment on the pricing strategy for ASICMINER hardware, between
a) aggressive (maximizing profits)
b) fair/honest
c) competitive (undercutting competition)

Maybe someone would want to organize a poll?

[Strange Vlad]

So I've bought my shares at around 2.6 on average (I bought in like 4 batches).
Now they are well under 1.0, plus I've got around 0.3 per share for divs.
Well, shit.
I guess there's little point in selling now anyway, so for now I'll just keep holding and hoping.

Lesson learned: investment is not a game for casual amateurs.

[VolanicEruptor]

Too funny. Best thing is that there's some granny out there that's become semi-famous and doesn't even know it...

I bet if she found out, she would take it all personal too,
"Those computer people are after me again!  I am dialing the police station!"

[jmutch]

Probably because it isn't online yet, i'm sure if it was they would send to found blocks to their mining address so everybody can see, which is conceivably why they send the franchise payments there.. you can't see it because it hasn't happened.

Network hashrate has risen to 2300TH.Who's driving this boom？Bitfury,KNC or, the 500TH of AM?

Don't know if http://erpao.info is official, but it still reports 47 TH/s (in solo mining).

It is the unofficial but accurate record.

It seems the hash rate in the new data center, which should increase 3-5TH daily according to friedcat, is not included in this stat yet?

This 3-5th daily that friedcat was talking about was misinterpreted.

It's not being added daily, he was just showing the split of where the ~60th comes from. 3-5th=variance in reliability(i think)

Hopefully soon more hash will come online though.

[stefffe]

So I've bought my shares at around 2.6 on average (I bought in like 4 batches).
Now they are well under 1.0, plus I've got around 0.3 per share for divs.
Well, shit.
I guess there's little point in selling now anyway, so for now I'll just keep holding and hoping.

Lesson learned: investment is not a game for casual amateurs.

MMMmmmhhhh....I thought I made a good deal when they went from 4.5 to 3.5 so I invested about 50btc. Im kinda poor now 

[VolanicEruptor]

Probably because it isn't online yet, i'm sure if it was they would send to found blocks to their mining address so everybody can see, which is conceivably why they send the franchise payments there.. you can't see it because it hasn't happened.

Network hashrate has risen to 2300TH.Who's driving this boom？Bitfury,KNC or, the 500TH of AM?

Don't know if http://erpao.info is official, but it still reports 47 TH/s (in solo mining).

It is the unofficial but accurate record.

It seems the hash rate in the new data center, which should increase 3-5TH daily according to friedcat, is not included in this stat yet?

This 3-5th daily that friedcat was talking about was misinterpreted.

It's not being added daily, he was just showing the split of where the ~60th comes from. 3-5th=variance in reliability(i think)

Hopefully soon more hash will come online though.

Maybe one of these days he will stick around for a few minutes after an update to prevent misinterpretations like this..

[AMuppInTime]

If you take the time to sift through friedcat's last few posts the message is rather clear - the "designs" they were looking into were not fruitful and they are doing research again on new designs after they decided to hire staff. From this point on you're not investing for dividends, which are going to be lost in a sea of miners coming online, but in a company.

Now there's 2 years salary for them to look into new designs and one month of fabrication (witholdings on past divs the past two months).

Time to hibernate guys - will come out when the sun shines on the cat again...

[allover]

I got heavily burnt on AsicMiner shares.

I'll buy next batch only if the price goes below 0.02, which means I can dramatically lower my average cost.

[kaidy1979]

Looking to borrow 100 ASICMiner shares for no more than 6 months at 50% yearly interest.

I am looking for someone to borrow 100 ASICMiner shares from. Either direct shares or shares on Havelock. I really want to borrow them from a single person, if possible.

I will be paying 50% annualized interest every week on the total value of the shares at the purchase date, according to Havelock. Interest will be paid once every week to an address of your choosing.

If you try 796,things would be much easier.The finacing and margin trade of 796 is exactly what you want except the period(the longest period is 4 weeks and the lowest weekly interest rate is 0.2% which is much lower than you offers)
If you are interested,try the link in my signature or just the link below http://union.796.com/link/redirect/100029?f=word

[freedomno1]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but it appears AM is no longer making gen1 USB block eruptors (and maybe blades but the phrasing isn't clear and I was expecting 500GH at some point). According to BTC Guild production of gen 1 has stopped:


Block Erupter Price Cuts / Blades Sold Out
USB Block Erupters have recently experienced another price cut, now at 0.12 BTC (free shipping within US). ASICMINER is stopping the production of new units, so remaining inventory is limited. ASICMINER Blades have now completely sold out as well.

October 10th, 2013

https://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=home



Edit: Could gen2 be sooner than we think?

Possible they might just be observing the network growth and determining efficiency
4.75 Years for 1 and a month for 2
http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3339745#msg3339745
Jutrauls post +1

[Strange Vlad]

Possible they might just be observing the network growth and determining efficiency
4.75 Years for 1 and a month for 2
http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3339745#msg3339745
Jutrauls post +1

One more week and it will be 3 PH/s.

[freedomno1]

Possible they might just be observing the network growth and determining efficiency
4.75 Years for 1 and a month for 2
http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-network-doubles-2-phs-four-weeks-first-1-phs-took-4-7-years


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.msg3339745#msg3339745
Jutrauls post +1

One more week and it will be 3 PH/s.

Things I can measure in petahashes
Ponders bitcoin
(Hard pressed to think of something else lol)

http://blog.standardcrypto.com/2013/09/15/what-does-one-petahash-look-like/

That said now it is now equivalent to two Wilshire-sized data centers filled with Blades

[SebastianJu]

cross-post because the discussion of pricing hardware is also relevant for ASICMINER (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.msg3339723#msg3339723)

All ASIC companies are pushing out too many chips too fast.  3600 coins per day is just not enough to spread around for the amount of money people have dumped into hardware costs.  There are too many people involved.  Too much greed by ASIC manufacturers.  And too many chips.  It would be far more wise to get refunds and buy btc directly.  The reward for mining is in the hands of the elite now.  Even people that dumped in 5-6 figures are in trouble unless they just bought chips.  You need to be capable of making your own PCB's for as cheap as possible now.

The problem is not that they produce chips too fast. It's their valuation/pricing. Free market valuation of hash power tends to be above expected yield (i.e. a net loss for the miner) for two reasons:
a) Miners are taking to much risk when valuing the hash power at the "edge", i.e. close to the expected yield. Exponential rise causes slight timing and projection errors to easily cause the profitability to fluctuate between -70% - +200%.
b) Companies have an incentive to engage in mining activities to make their R&D back, which creates a vacuum for the sales and at the same time depreciates the expected yield. Just look at ghash.io. I don't know whether the size of that farm was anticipated.

The pricing scheme for hash power is the big issue here, not its yield. Given point a), failure to price correctly causes either the miner to make a huge loss or profit. This needs to change and the first companies who can create a scheme which works for miners and companies alike will be the innovators here.

A good pricing scheme has two features:
i) it removes the risk/unknowns effects of network growth projections on the profitability of mining (operational profit certainty)
ii) it instantly shows whether the miner is willing to mine for profit or for loss (declaration of intent)

Unless i) and ii) are fixed, all missed projections will cause the ASIC companies to look fraudulent, since it causes a net wealth transfer from the mining community towards the ASIC producers.

On that note it may be interesting to establish a shareholder sentiment on the pricing strategy for ASICMINER hardware, between
a) aggressive (maximizing profits)
b) fair/honest
c) competitive (undercutting competition)

Maybe someone would want to organize a poll?

I think it should be simply a price that maximizes profit. Selling more for a lower price or selling less for a higher price. Something in between. Asicminer cant change the buyers behaviour. If they dont buy here they buy elsewhere. And it doesnt matter how much preorders are floating around. Thats something the buyers seems not to consider.

[Strange Vlad]

I think it should be simply a price that maximizes profit. Selling more for a lower price or selling less for a higher price. Something in between. Asicminer cant change the buyers behaviour. If they dont buy here they buy elsewhere. And it doesnt matter how much preorders are floating around. Thats something the buyers seems not to consider.

To maximize profit is to set the price (at least) as high as possible for the product to still be selling in whatever volume is being produced.  I'm a genius.

[SebastianJu]

I think it should be simply a price that maximizes profit. Selling more for a lower price or selling less for a higher price. Something in between. Asicminer cant change the buyers behaviour. If they dont buy here they buy elsewhere. And it doesnt matter how much preorders are floating around. Thats something the buyers seems not to consider.

To maximize profit is to set the price (at least) as high as possible for the product to still be selling in whatever volume is being produced.  I'm a genius.

Thats correct for the moment. The price wont drop lower than the potential income from self mining. The demand ist simply too high. I sold my bitburner through a backward auction. And i think that might be a good way here too. Dropping the price per miner a bit for each hour. So you can ensure the miners are sold and you most probably get the best price you can get. Asicminer can ship instantly too. So i think thats a good way to get the best profit.

[Lohoris]

I guess there's little point in selling now anyway, so for now I'll just keep holding and hoping.

Lesson learned: investment is not a game for casual amateurs.

+1

I'd also like to add that unless you have time to follow the developements multiple times a day, you should instead get a broker that manages it, if you really want to invest something.