The DC requires 6 month minimum and $100 setup fee.
We'll charge in advance:
Bulk shipping cost ~$100 - we'll figure out the exact cost later
$100 - Setup fee
5 X $290 - $310 - 5 months of hosting, depending on the selected power mode
No remote access, we'll set pool configuration. Changing will be done by emails.
Thanks for the update, shame about the remote access, will have to do some more pondering  It's too much effort. 80% / 20% rule. Actually, 95% of our customers are content with configuration change by email. |
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My misguided favorite AM SH. It's late and I'm going to sleep, but I need to explain something.
Assuming you want to deploy, you need to look at $/GHs cost at the deployment level. Whether it will be DC, AC IC or KNC Chicken Farm (Boden).
We have customers that knows to deploy (without miners cost but with building, electricity, air cooling etc) at sub $200K/MW
Which is extremely cheap. Even if you do 1.4 PUE, but with $0.025/KWh (depends on your locale only), you get much better numbers than what you wrote. Especially with SP30 ...
Do the math.
What is the monthly rent on a 1mw warehouse? I don't doubt $200k/MW is possible but that is only $300k less than an immersion container but rent savings alone will probably be more than $300k. That is in addition to the electricity savings of ~$90k/year (400KW @ $0.025/kwh) Also how can you get better numbers with an sp30? Datatank hardware production costs are $0.53/gh vs your material costs of $0.5/gh. Will you be selling SP30 in a few weeks for $3200 each? (including shipping) By sub $200K/MW, I meant TOTAL cost. And it's actually very big sub. (How did you get to the conclusion that SP30 material cost is $0.5/GHs ? Don't you understand the meaning of "assume" ?) - SP30 BOM (without NRE) is $3,000
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Assume the following (not exact figure, just to get the idea):
- SP30 BOM (without NRE) is $3,000
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I'd love to know how you can get much below $200k for a 1mw DC. Rent alone should be ~$100-150K/year.
You would, would you  Not by building IC tank, I can assure you. |
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My misguided favorite AM SH. It's late and I'm going to sleep, but I need to explain something.
Assuming you want to deploy, you need to look at $/GHs cost at the deployment level. Whether it will be DC, AC IC or KNC Chicken Farm (Boden).
We have customers that knows to deploy (without miners cost but with building, electricity, air cooling etc) at sub $200K/MW
Which is extremely cheap. Even if you do 1.4 PUE, but with $0.025/KWh (depends on your locale only), you get much better numbers than what you wrote. Especially with SP30 ...
Do the math.
What is the monthly rent on a 1mw warehouse? I don't doubt $200k/MW is possible but that is only $300k less than an immersion container but rent savings alone will probably be more than $300k. That is in addition to the electricity savings of ~$90k/year (400KW @ $0.025/kwh) Also how can you get better numbers with an sp30? Datatank hardware production costs are $0.53/gh vs your material costs of $0.5/gh. Will you be selling SP30 in a few weeks for $3200 each? (including shipping) By sub $200K/MW, I meant TOTAL cost. And it's actually very big sub. (How did you get to the conclusion that SP30 material cost is $0.5/GHs ? Don't you understand the meaning of "assume" ?) |
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So you are selling cheap inefficient use of power in an expensive immersion cooled setup. Much marketing, less hardware.
Roadstress sp30 offering:$0.88/gh 0.5w/gh $0.15/kwh (starts hashing in a few months) Datatank offering: $0.93/gh 0.6w/gh $0.025/kwh (starts hashing in a few weeks) 0.6w/gh is not inefficient and <$0.5/w for cooling is not expensive. My misguided favorite AM SH. It's late and I'm going to sleep, but I need to explain something. Assuming you want to deploy, you need to look at $/GHs cost at the deployment level. Whether it will be DC, AC IC or KNC Chicken Farm (Boden). We have customers that knows how to deploy (without miners cost but with building, electricity, air cooling etc) at sub $200K/MW Which is extremely cheap. Even if you do 1.4 PUE, but with $0.025/KWh (depends on your locale only), you get much better numbers than what you wrote. Especially with SP30 ... Do the math. |
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Spondoolies
Can you provide some more information on the hosting arrangements for the SP30 group buy, still sat on the email asking if I want it shipped or hosted, was going to email you but figured some other people might be in the same position so a public answer would be better.
It says 6 month minimum, how is this going to be charged. All 6 months in advance, 1 month in advance, 1 month in arrears.
Will we have remote access to the miners, my current SP10's are hosted with you and the biggest drawback is not having access (though support is very quick)
TIA
The DC requires 6 month minimum and $100 setup fee. We'll charge in advance:Bulk shipping cost ~$100 - we'll figure out the exact cost later $100 - Setup fee 5 X $290 - $310 - 5 months of hosting, depending on the selected power mode No remote access, we'll set pool configuration. Changing will be done by emails.
The email said that hosting required a 6 month commitment, which would indicate to me that it required 6 months up front. What other commitment would there be for a company selling hosting to a bunch of geeks on the internet from all over the world?
You won't be required to pay all up front for the 6 months. The commitment would be that you agree and commit to pay for the next 6 months of hosting. I am sure that if you won't pay starting any month that won't be a problem because they still have your equipment and they will not release it to you until you pay up + maybe you will get blacklisted with them. That's how I see it at least. Things don't need to be complicated at all. Looks like it is a pay in advance setup. With one month free as agreed in the Group buy. Not a bad thing, just helps clarify things a bit. Correct. |
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...
Havelock Investments provide escrow service for raised funds during first 8 round of IPO. That means that bitcoin will be paid to Spondoolies-Tech directly for the purchase of the equipment.
...
If the IPO will succeed, the funds after each round will be released to cbcm [6/11/2014 11:03:37 PM] vcorem: You're releasing the funds to CBCM, correctly ? [6/11/2014 11:03:45 PM] vcorem: After each round ? [6/11/2014 11:42:43 PM] The Panama Fund - Havelock Investments: yes, once one is done, the next one follows [6/11/2014 11:43:07 PM] vcorem: ok. Just wanted to make sure I'm not involved |
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In the group buy thread you mention about a "cloud control panel to allow full access to miner web GUI" ... is that off the table ?
Indeed, it's off the table. Zvisha addressed it in the past. |
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Spondoolies
Can you provide some more information on the hosting arrangements for the SP30 group buy, still sat on the email asking if I want it shipped or hosted, was going to email you but figured some other people might be in the same position so a public answer would be better.
It says 6 month minimum, how is this going to be charged. All 6 months in advance, 1 month in advance, 1 month in arrears.
Will we have remote access to the miners, my current SP10's are hosted with you and the biggest drawback is not having access (though support is very quick)
TIA
The DC requires 6 month minimum and $100 setup fee. We'll charge in advance: Bulk shipping cost ~$100 - we'll figure out the exact cost later $100 - Setup fee 5 X $290 - $310 - 5 months of hosting, depending on the selected power mode No remote access, we'll set pool configuration. Changing will be done by emails. Can September orders get in on this arrangements or only GB? Unfortunately not. |
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Spondoolies
Can you provide some more information on the hosting arrangements for the SP30 group buy, still sat on the email asking if I want it shipped or hosted, was going to email you but figured some other people might be in the same position so a public answer would be better.
It says 6 month minimum, how is this going to be charged. All 6 months in advance, 1 month in advance, 1 month in arrears.
Will we have remote access to the miners, my current SP10's are hosted with you and the biggest drawback is not having access (though support is very quick)
TIA
The DC requires 6 month minimum and $100 setup fee. We'll charge in advance: Bulk shipping cost ~$100 - we'll figure out the exact cost later $100 - Setup fee 5 X $290 - $310 - 5 months of hosting, depending on the selected power mode No remote access, we'll set pool configuration. Changing will be done by emails. |
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From tapeout to mass production can be done within seven weeks if everything goes OK
TO - beginning of March. Tapeout to samples: 40nm, 28nm - 8 weeks 20nm - 4-5 months Prove me wrong. Missed by two weeks. 20nm has many flavors, layers selection etc. Apparently they've choose a simple variant and were able to do it in 3.5 months. Lot of good it did them in terms of ASIC power/performance. Doesn't matter what variant they chose because you stated that knc would take 4 months minimum and they did it in 3. Also you told me 5 months in PM. Admit it, your magic crystal ball is not nearly as accurate as you suggest. They did it in 3.5 months, assuming I was right and they started in the beginning of March. They claimed they started in February, which means they did it in 3.5 - 4 months. I admit that I was probably wrong by 2 weeks. I've explained the reason. It has to do with the amount of layers. Guy |
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Perhaps, but they will have something for sale in July (batch 3) while you only have something in September. Having something for sale sooner counts. What would you say to this? I am happy with my September Sp-30 purchase, but wish that you would have something in July-August. We sold out July and August. We're selling September at a nice pace as well. |
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From tapeout to mass production can be done within seven weeks if everything goes OK
TO - beginning of March. Tapeout to samples: 40nm, 28nm - 8 weeks 20nm - 4-5 months Prove me wrong. Quality 20nm - 4 to 5 months. Correct. |
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From tapeout to mass production can be done within seven weeks if everything goes OK
TO - beginning of March. Tapeout to samples: 40nm, 28nm - 8 weeks 20nm - 4-5 months Prove me wrong. Missed by two weeks. 20nm has many flavors, layers selection etc. Apparently they've choose a simple variant and were able to do it in 3.5 months. Lot of good it did them in terms of ASIC power/performance. |
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I can't resist it (1). Amateurs time: ... Due to production issues, RX-BOX will be delayed indefinitely ...
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Do you have a private mine with your own equipment, built for your mine for you and your company and its Venture Capital investors?
We currently don't have a farm. Our data center is solely for hosting our customers units. We don't have plan to have a farm during 2014. We want to concentrate on building and selling the best mining machines, not operate farms. Clear enough ? Is this still the case? Will there be any disclosure should there be any future collaboration with Allied Control? Through what means will Spondoolies utilize to show their transparency to the community if you should start hosting customer units on a larger scale? To think that Spondoolies have not and will not consider immersion cooling is ludicrous (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I do not have any problem with your products, which have been reviewed with much praise. Instead, I am more concerned that there will be another Bitfury-like entity, who have the means to control the total network hash rate. Gen3 will probably be deployed within DC and managed by spondoolies, as by then individual mining could (should) be no longer profitable. Customers would probably have the possibility in buying hosted GH by then. However, this is still FAR in the future when taking into account "bitcoin time" and only one of many possibilities. For this purpose and for possible large scale investors in Gen2 chips / devices the research at Allied Control will provide some experience with immersion cooling. Probably, very true. |
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But please do describe to me how you will be competing with (possibly immersion cooled) equipment with the best W/GH ratio and lowest energy prices on the planet (letīs say 5ct/kwh) by the end of 2014.
The immersion cooling is just about nearly pointless with Bitcoin mining. The only thing that its proponents bring to table are workarounds for lack of proper design and engineering. Immersion cooling with 3M engineered fluids only makes sense if there are real constraints on the cooled equipment: speed of light limitation, unusual complexity, high density, etc. None of that really matter for Bitcoin mining. If your goal is low PUE then simply use typical evaporative cooling well known in chemical process engineering and refrigeration. Most of the required equipment is already available, all you'll need to do is bring a chemical/thermodynamic process engineer to the table with the PCB design engineer, who is already working for Spondoolies. Together they need to design a proper heat exchanger for the mining chips and the associated buck converters. I already asked Spondoolies if SP30 motherboard was designed for cutting into 15 smaller boards. Apparently not, probably because the PCB design engineer wasn't given this as a requirement. So they cut the heathsinks into 15 smaller pieces. They need to conceptually invert that design: single large liquid heat exchanger and multitude of small PCBs hosting the hot chips is the way to go long term. 3M's profit margins on their immersion cooling fluids are so high, that they require scientific notation to fit in the spreadsheets. Just use common chilling/refrigeration equipment instead where the profit margins are in expressed in two digits. We more or less agree with this analysis. |
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Do you have a private mine with your own equipment, built for your mine for you and your company and its Venture Capital investors?
We currently don't have a farm. Our data center is solely for hosting our customers units. We don't have plan to have a farm during 2014. We want to concentrate on building and selling the best mining machines, not operate farms. Clear enough ? Is this still the case? Will there be any disclosure should there be any future collaboration with Allied Control? Through what means will Spondoolies utilize to show their transparency to the community if you should start hosting customer units on a larger scale? To think that Spondoolies have not and will not consider immersion cooling is ludicrous (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I do not have any problem with your products, which have been reviewed with much praise. Instead, I am more concerned that there will be another Bitfury-like entity, who have the means to control the total network hash rate. This is still the case. We don't compete with our customers. Our business is producing and selling mining hardware and ASICs. Our collaboration with Allied Control is due to customers requests. We got multiple requests for special blade like form factor more suitable for DataTank, based on RockerBox. However, we still didn't start such a design since none of the prospect customers were actually willing to commit to the exploration phase of the NRE. Guy |
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