Passive 2-phase immersion cooling is often misunderstood. There is no need for a chiller, it uses a simple dry tower, which is essentially the same thing as a radiator in the front of your car or your water cooling system of a PC. And it also works in very hot climates. The systems are designed to work with hot water (aka hot water cooling). It takes very little energy to cool water from say 70C to 50C even when it's extremely hot outside like in Arizona or other hot places. (this hot water can in fact also be used to heat up buildings like schools or offices) http://www.electronics-cooling.com/2014/02/bitcoin-2-phase-immersion-cooling-and-the-implications-for-high-performance-computing/ The PUE of less than 1.01 includes the _total_ cooling process, including device and building cooling. There is nothing else required. There is no trickery. In fact it's less than that. If you'd use wet towers, or a river near by, it would be lower. But why waste the water and waste time with an open system (needs frequent cleanup)? Thank you for the explanation. We'll continue the discussion in HK 2014 I found the discussion quite informative. What are your thoughts on IM DCs now, after having learned more about the process at HK? All I'm saying is mount the Bitcoin mining chips (on small PCBs) directly onto your secondary cooling loop.
Why doesn't anyone (manufacturer + purpose-built mining facility) do this? I've really enjoyed meeting and discussing IC with Alex. Alex is a terrific guy, passionate about his business. I wish him and AC best of luck. Really. I think that the eco system will become stronger if AC will succeed. I still believe that it's too expensive solution for Bitcoin space. I'm under NDAs and can't elaborate. |
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I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.
No. I'm referring to selling AM Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk. You have word from legitimate sources that AM is selling their Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk at wafer costs? That is unheard of, thank you. I wonder if the board is aware of this then.. Two bulk customers. How many PH of chips did they buy? Surely if they told you the price they paid they also gave you a ballpark of the quantity. Update: I just noticed you said, "40 PH/s of A1s" What is an A1s? That isn't an AM chip. It's two different statements about the Chinese market, not related. Chinese manufacturers estimates that Coincraft A1 is deployed at over 40 PH/s already. My estimation is that what drives AM Gen3 price to cost, in order to recover the investment. I've seen pictures of huge farms. AM Gen3: we didn't discuss quantities, but those are in hands ASICs bought by two first tier integrators. Enough about AM Gen3 here. |
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I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.
No. I'm referring to selling AM Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk. You have word from legitimate sources that AM is selling their Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk at wafer costs? That is unheard of, thank you. I wonder if the board is aware of this then.. Two bulk customers. |
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I think he is referring to the deal between DataTank and AM which was just reached 2 days ago? That is not Selling so much as a barter or trade, if I understand the deal correctly.
No. I'm referring to selling AM Gen3 ASICs to Chinese manufacturers in bulk. |
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But if you really like speculation: AM Gen3 is selling at their own wafer cost.
I speculate that your will get some fat dividends soon. That is simply absurd. When has any company sold asics for zero profit? I highly doubt SP knows anything about AM wafer costs and profit margins. $0.2/GHs which is very close to AM Gen3 cost. The reason is that those ASICs reached EOL (like our Hammers). Absurd but true. Verified from two different sources. Very close to wafer cost =/= wafer cost. Also I'd love to know where this info came from. Cheapest I've heard them selling for is $0.35/gh. I wouldn't be surprised if FC was flogging the chips for around $0.2/gh but I am positive he is not doing it as a charity act. The information is correct. I got the same number from two different respectable Chinese system manufacturer. I can't forget the following BS (I don't forget numbers): This is to inform that friedcat met with the board yesterday and provided some updates.
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Order of magnitude: Depending on fab capacity. Total target is 10k to 40k wafers, relying on competitors, Bitcoin price, and other factors. A wafer is rated at 40 TH/s.
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Guy |
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But if you really like speculation: AM Gen3 is selling at their own wafer cost.
I speculate that your will get some fat dividends soon. That is simply absurd. When has any company sold asics for zero profit? I highly doubt SP knows anything about AM wafer costs and profit margins. $0.2/GHs which is very close to AM Gen3 cost. The reason is that those ASICs reached EOL (like our Hammers). Absurd but true. Verified from two different sources. |
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Watch out boys, only approved comments are allowed in this so called 'self-moderated' SPT thread. I think we need a new thread just for Spondooles ROI discussions.
Although this thread is self-moderated, we don't delete comments. This thread should be kept for hardware related questions, per the subject. The mods are enforcing it, without our request, but with our consent. You're welcome to do ROI discussions elsewhere. Guy But are you participating in those other threads regarding ROI discussions and such? I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to do that in the next 2 weeks. |
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That said-re chinese market. Guy, care to elaborate-you understand their marketing or price trends or whether they will develop 20nm or jump straight to 16nm?
Off topic, me to blame. I don't see a Chinese player doing more advance node anytime soon. They're concentrating on maximizing profit and reducing cost and prices, short term. AM Gen3 is selling at their own wafer cost. 40 PH/s of A1s Lot's of low cost farms are being deployed. Seen some pictures. 3 shifts, 24 hours a day producing miners. GOOD JOB, China...  What is SPTech strategy...how do you plan to compete with them...  Looking for cooperation opportunities ... We have the tech, they have the muscle ... The SP30 box was quite a hit ... |
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That said-re chinese market. Guy, care to elaborate-you understand their marketing or price trends or whether they will develop 20nm or jump straight to 16nm?
Off topic, me to blame. I don't see a Chinese player doing more advance node anytime soon. They're concentrating on maximizing profit and reducing cost and prices, short term. AM Gen3 is selling at their own wafer cost. 40 PH/s of A1s Lot's of low cost farms are being deployed. Seen some pictures. 3 shifts, 24 hours a day producing miners. |
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Inside Bitcoin 2014 Hong Kong: Met Roxie, Bitmaintech and other Chinese companies.
I have much better understanding of the Chinese market now.
Guy
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We'll ship continuously, non stop, in August and September.
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Watch out boys, only approved comments are allowed in this so called 'self-moderated' SPT thread. I think we need a new thread just for Spondooles ROI discussions.
Although this thread is self-moderated, we don't delete comments. This thread should be kept for hardware related questions, per the subject. The mods are enforcing it, without our request, but with our consent. You're welcome to do ROI discussions elsewhere. Guy |
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So, Spondoolies is providing hardware to DataTankMining in return for mining/hosting capacity?
No |
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I am actually eager to know when chips are scheduled to arrive at spondoolies´facilities.
Is it mid July?
Between July 20th and 25th, depending on how much we'll be able to pull in the assembly house. We'll ship all July batch until the end of the month. It's a small batch. Guy |
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Going on 10 days business trip to east Asia. Limited access to emails.
Please always cc support@ or sales@, to make sure the emails will be handled.
Guy
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... Volume orders of the September batch have been as low as $2500 a unit ...
This is untrue. Plain and simple. Not even close. |
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I'm currently setting up a p2pool node in Israel for anyone who needs fast ping time to mine p2pool from the spondoolies d/c. This will be ready on monday. Server currently downloading the blockchain. I really like those community efforts. Guy |
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The problem in the DC was fixed, we're back to normal.
Over the next days, we'll compensate for the down time.
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All (my) hosted miners seem pretty much down at the moment.
Did something on your power network fail?
It's not networking problem. WIP |
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