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Another reminder that an updated prospectus is already in the works with a number of updates. This will be provided before the Pre-IPVO begins.
Also note that any unexpected proceeds from excessive bid prices will all go into the business, not to TATI or any private parties.
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Aaaandddd now there's a bid at .003001 on BTCT, so your IPO price is officially above .003 on two of the exchanges, and it's only going to get worse until the IPO launches. You should either cap it at .003 or change the wording of your IPO to reflect the fact that you are not, in fact, offering the price at .003, you're offering it to the highest bidders.
I'm interested to hear a response to this. There is no new information needed. It is simply the method chosen to make this work, all things considered. Cash grab. All things considered. Exactly. It could operate like an actual IPO, there isn't really a reason it shouldn't (or they haven't made that reason known). But they make more money, faster this way. It's a little dishonest, given the wording of the offer, but what can you do? Ultimately they don't care about being fair or care about the people who are willing to risk money in order to see the company succeed, they just care about the money those people have. And they have every right to be that way. I'm still buying in, "all things considered", I'm just a little disappointed in these fellows. Your assumptions are incorrect, the exchanges do not fully support the price-limiting you desire, nor the ability to dynamically work from one pool across 3 exchanges. The alternatives would be more likely to lead to "messes" that you are not considering. I think most would agree that calling us dishonest would be undue. We have put more care into this than any offering you've likely seen in bitcoin prior. We're paving new ground with this IPVO, and surely some people will have their own ideas about how to do it differently. If you feel you can do better, I do encourage you to get into the finance business and join us in setting standards. The more entities there are demanding new features and support from the exchanges, the better. At the moment you are fixating on less than 1% of the current bids being over the ask price, and the IPVO isn't even close to oversubscribed yet. Please keep perspective here. |
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Is there a limit to how many shares a single person can buy either at the IPO or pre-IPO with xbond exchanges?
No, share limits are an impossible thing to enforce, in practice. |
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Aaaandddd now there's a bid at .003001 on BTCT, so your IPO price is officially above .003 on two of the exchanges, and it's only going to get worse until the IPO launches. You should either cap it at .003 or change the wording of your IPO to reflect the fact that you are not, in fact, offering the price at .003, you're offering it to the highest bidders.
I'm interested to hear a response to this. There is no new information needed. It is simply the method chosen to make this work, all things considered. |
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Yep, I hear you there too; I wonder whether any or all of the exchanges have considered lower listing fees for this sort of thing? That could benefit everyone by enabling new listings from established issuers to appear (along with trading volume) that would otherwise not be cost effective and which would thus not generate listing fees anyway.
I've suggested special fee structures for different types of securities to Havelock. They seem somewhat open to the logic of it, but some convincing may still be required... |
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That's correct, we're trying to get in touch with BitFunder to show it on the market soon and allow early bidding like the other exchanges. |
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The official IPVO will begin on Friday, September 20th at 1PM EDT / 5PM UTC on BitFunder, Havelock, and BTCT.
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I realize that this IPO will be handled with dynamic allocation of available shares to the exchanges with the most demand, but will there be any information given to the initial distribution numbers to each? The reason I ask this is to be smart when it comes to whether or not outbidding is necessary to attain the most optimal position.
I believe this answers your question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3166320#msg3166320The solution to your bidding strategy is yours to deduce  |
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So already on Havelock people are placing bids above the value of the IPO. You will be filling the pre-IPO bids that are actually IPO price first, right?
I'm not sure why people would overbid without it being oversubscribed yet, but orders will be filled in the natural priority of the orderbook. Price always trumps age, age always trumps recency. |
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Something that may be worth clarifying now - to potentially avoid butt-hurt later - is what the procedure would be if there was oversubscription prior to release. i.e. if total bids at/above list price on the three exchanges added up to more than available shares. Would you:
a) Fill bids on all exchanges above list price then split rest in proportion to orders on each book.
b) Fill one (or more) exchange before others - specifically would you fill orders on the 'main' exchange before filling orders on the pass-throughs.
What the plan is has obvious implications for those with the ability to place orders on multiple exchanges (though only if it looks likely that bids will exceed supply of course).
Certainly, I addressed this earlier today in the main thread, but it is closest to a). Here is what we decided: In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO.
For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.
This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case.
Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids. Original comment is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3166320#msg3166320Ah thanks - missed that. One minor clarification you should probably make to it is that you'd only consider bids at/above the list price when evaluating total bids on each exchange. i.e. I couldn't, for example, sling up a huge bid at below official price to ensure maximum allocation to the exchange of my choice (something which I'd quite happily do IF I was bidding and there was oversubscription to ensure my order got filled). Nice catch, I will concur that your recommendation is correct and it to my other comment. |
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Something that may be worth clarifying now - to potentially avoid butt-hurt later - is what the procedure would be if there was oversubscription prior to release. i.e. if total bids at/above list price on the three exchanges added up to more than available shares. Would you:
a) Fill bids on all exchanges above list price then split rest in proportion to orders on each book.
b) Fill one (or more) exchange before others - specifically would you fill orders on the 'main' exchange before filling orders on the pass-throughs.
What the plan is has obvious implications for those with the ability to place orders on multiple exchanges (though only if it looks likely that bids will exceed supply of course).
Certainly, I addressed this earlier today in the main thread, but it is closest to a). Here is what we decided: In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO.
For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.
This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case.
Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids. Original comment is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.msg3166320#msg3166320 |
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I'm getting repeated questions of the same nature, so I'd like to remind people of a few points:
1. If you pay more than .0012 for XBONDs in order to participate in the Pre-IPVO round, you are effectively paying more than the initial ask price of the actual IPVO.
2. Even if you are okay with the above point, and just want to lock in shares early, please realize that the Pre-IPVO round is limited to 500,000 shares and may sell out also.
3. The Pre-IPVO round will get you BITFUNDER shares, not other types. If you want to convert them to another exchange after the fact, you will need to instigate our transfer services.
4. Do not send XBOND confirmation emails, nor push XBOND units to the issuer UNTIL 1PM EDT / 5PM UTC TOMORROW.
5. You must include your BitFunder account name in your Pre-IPVO confirmation email. The email sending adddress must match your Havelock registration address.
6. The Pre-IPVO BitFunder shares will not be delivered until September 23, 2013 - three days after the IPVO round begins.
7. Your math must be accurate when figuring how many XBOND units needed to exchange for NEOBEE units. It is a 5:2 ratio.
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I'm getting repeated questions of the same nature, so I'd like to remind people of a few points:
1. If you pay more than .0012 for XBONDs in order to participate in the Pre-IPVO round, you are effectively paying more than the initial ask price of the actual IPVO.
2. Even if you are okay with the above point, and just want to lock in shares early, please realize that the Pre-IPVO round is limited to 500,000 shares and may sell out also.
3. The Pre-IPVO round will get you BITFUNDER shares, not other types. If you want to convert them to another exchange after the fact, you will need to instigate our transfer services.
4. Do not send XBOND confirmation emails, nor push XBOND units to the issuer UNTIL 1PM EDT / 5PM UTC TOMORROW.
5. You must include your BitFunder account name in your Pre-IPVO confirmation email. The email sending adddress must match your Havelock registration address.
6. The Pre-IPVO BitFunder shares will not be delivered until September 23, 2013 - three days after the IPVO round begins.
7. Your math must be accurate when figuring how many XBOND units needed to exchange for NEOBEE units. It is a 5:2 ratio.
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Hello I am sorry if this has been answered before on this thread but I am really busy with my real work to go through all the posts Q: I have a few XBonds and I would like to participate in the Neo&Bee Pre-IPVO but I don't get the instructions given "Pre-IPVO Redemption Rules & Instructions (for Neo&Bee) :
To instigate a redemption exchange for Pre-IPVO this offering, simply transfer your bonds to the the XBOND issuer account within HavelockInvestments.com, Also, please send a corresponding email to tat.investments@gmail.com confirming your desired Pre-IPVO purchase quantity desired, and your account name on the destination exchange."when I look at my portfolio on HavelockInvestments.com there is an xrf link this links to a page where you can 1. transfer the xbonds to the issuer is that HavelockInvestments.com (the xbond issuer) or tat.investments@gmail.com (the stock issuer) 2. transfer the xbonds to an email address of a user of HavelockInvestments.com ( tat.investments@gmail.com ? ) I also found under the "Public Offerings" tab on xbond's (main) page an (I)PO which probably is for Neo&Bee shares (same date same time) which states 3. A 'Buy Now' link will appear to the right of the offering once the public offering begins. You will need to refresh this page to see it!which is the proper way to exchange my xbonds for the Neo&Bee pre-IPVO 1 (probably not) , 2 or 3? Thank you for your time P.S. if the answer is No2 How can I be sure that tat.investments@gmail.com is a user of HavelockInvestments.com? - The Xfer link offers an option to push the bonds to the issuer, that is what you should choose tomorrow after the Pre-IPVO starts. - While the tat.investments@gmail.com is well-established as the current official email, you don't actually have to entrust it with any equity in this process. You are merely emailing to confirm you pushed the bonds to the issuer, confirm how many NEOBEE shares you expect to received for those bonds, and confirm your BitFunder account name so we can push the NEOBEE shares to you when ready. - The NEOBEE offeriing on Havelock is not fully set up yet, but will be set up to enable pre-bidding before the official IPVO round (after the Pre-IPVO round). |
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How can I keep the overview of the total number of shares bought when you can buy shares on the three exchanges?
So it might be challenging to know when the total amount of shares of the IPVO is reached?
Assuming you need to do this at all, you'd need to have each page open on each exchange in your browser. Havelock & BitFunder have mostly live books, and BTCT requires refreshing. Generally you'll know when it is sold out because there will be no more Ask walls at .003. |
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So what will happen if in btct order book bids get more than the shares? Would higher bids allowed? Or they will end up in a formula in the way they did with the Labcoin IPO?
This is crucial and I would like Burnside to answer asap if possible!
Also what will be the policy in other exchanges? Usually in Havelock the IPO's do not allow pre-biding (and that can result to bringing the site down, having to be fast & lucky enough in order to buy etc.). I bet the pre-IVPO will end in minutes (only 1250BTC of shares).
In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO. For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case. Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids. So does that mean that if for example all shares are pre-bided in an exchange, then a higher bid (eg 0.0030001) would by pass the FIFO? Correct, this is essentially how all the orderbooks work by default. |
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So what will happen if in btct order book bids get more than the shares? Would higher bids allowed? Or they will end up in a formula in the way they did with the Labcoin IPO?
This is crucial and I would like Burnside to answer asap if possible!
Also what will be the policy in other exchanges? Usually in Havelock the IPO's do not allow pre-biding (and that can result to bringing the site down, having to be fast & lucky enough in order to buy etc.). I bet the pre-IVPO will end in minutes (only 1250BTC of shares).
In the case of oversubscription, shares will be sold proportionally according to total bid amounts, in bitcoins, on each exchange at the start of the IPVO. For example: If there are 20000btc on BTCT, 10000btc on Havelock, and 5000btc on Bitfunder, each exchange would be sold approximately 57.1%, 28.6%, 14.3%, respectively.This cannot be exact due to bids changing at any moment, but we'll do our best to keep it fair (proportional) in such a case. Please do not confuse this with a Dutch style auction (like Labcoin). The price per share would not change in this case, other than if bidders choose to raise their own bids. I don't have much experience with Bitfunder and Havelock, but can I assume that your post implies that it will be possible to place bids prior to the IPVO on all 3 exchanges? Bids that are then filled up by the big IPVO-sell-order. klee mentioned that Havelock IP(V)Os typically don't have pre-bidding, which would make it impossible to determine a proper share-division-ratio for the three exchanges. This is the intention, yes. I know it is possible with Havelock and I am working on it with them already. I am still waiting to hear back from Ukyo about allowing it on BitFunder, but I'm certain it's possible there. Just a matter of time most likely. |
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