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1149
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Economy / Securities / Re: BitFunder - Lets grow together! A request to all users - https://bitfunder.com
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on: June 11, 2013, 11:21:21 PM
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Are you dating Vbs perchance?
I don't spend enough time on here to know who Vbs is, sorry buddy lol. But it's hard when a company is releasing additional Stocks, and flippers are undercutting the IPO. If that makes any sense? I'm still learning! >>Edit: Ok yes, Vbs is exactly where I got that idea from, in the AMC Thread, now I feel silly, sorry No worries, was just teasing  |
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1153
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Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion
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on: June 11, 2013, 05:28:24 PM
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Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually. AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation. Please provide ways to solve this problem. My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin. If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price. Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually. Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way. I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling. If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits. Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated. +1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed. He does not need to sell them privately, it ends up the same as putting them on open market at the correct price. So what if the flippers bail out and undercut him for a day, it'll iron itself out if he prices them realistically. Well, if he needed the money to buy hardware, it would mean he would have to sell more shares than intended in order to purchase that hardware. That would mean less hardware could be bought, which means a lower percentage of the network hash rate, which leads to lower mining profits, which leads to lower dividends. How is that good for long term investors? Investors... most of the people in here are speculators that just wanna see the high price of AMC maintained. The fact is that his original plan only called for the funding necessary raised by selling shares at .0005. If AMC is ready to raise more money quickly, all he needs to do is stick with his plan. No need for illusory BF features. |
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1156
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Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion
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on: June 11, 2013, 01:31:03 PM
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Guys, the problem is pretty simple actually. AMC needs to sell more shares, as it only sold 5M out of the initial 15M. --> AMC tries to sell more shares, at market price. --> AMC keeps being undercut. --> AMC thus, doesn't sell anything, or very little. --> AMC doesn't get the additional funds it needs, at the time it needs. --> AMC dies of starvation. Please provide ways to solve this problem. My solution is a primary/secondary market like everyone else is doing outside bitcoin. If Ken wants to sell @ .0008, but people undercut him, it means there is not enough demand for the share at that price. Then he needs to lower the price, it's quite simple actually. Any way of distorting the market by selling behind closed doors, will eventually affect the share price and shareholders in a negative way. I don't want to be a part of "what will be ken's next move" - speculation game once again. And that is what it will become if we have closed market selling. If someone wanted to buy 1 millions shares at 0.0008 BTC then there would obviously be demand. As Vbs points out, Ken selling share privately is a good thing for AMC and it's investors and is a bad thing ONLY for flippers. It doesn't surprise me that some people would be against that, as it would cut into their profits. Flippers do not care whether or not AMC succeeds and likewise, I don't care in the slightest if selling shares privately cuts flippers profits. Some people on these forums treat the market like some religious people treat their god. The market is not infallible, in fact, it's quite easily manipulated. +1 for Ken selling shares privately if needed. He does not need to sell them privately, it ends up the same as putting them on open market at the correct price. So what if the flippers bail out and undercut him for a day, it'll iron itself out if he prices them realistically. |
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1157
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Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion
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on: June 11, 2013, 10:56:25 AM
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I'll try to better explain my position then. First, lets get something straight: I'm talking about selling shares through BitFunder, not outside it. BitFunder supports sending shares between accounts. This issue is very clear to me. If you are an investor in AMC you want the money to go to AMC!You can't have an asset issuer compete in a secondary market. You need new shares to be sold in a primary market. Otherwise, every long-term shareholder gets screwed!For example, lets say Ken needs to sell 1,000,000 shares now for the (imminent) purchase of materials to build Avalon boards/ new order of chips/ whatever: - He puts them to sell on BitFunder at 0.0008.
- Next minute, he is immediately undercut at 10,000@0.00079999 by someone, and the other minute at 5,000@0.00079998 by another guy, etc.
- This keeps going and after a week he has sold nothing, while the undercutters were steadily selling their shares.
- Who do you think gets screwed by not getting the necessary BTC in time for buying the actual hardware? Hint: not the flippers!
Competing in a secondary market means that Ken will be forced to sell at 0.0005 if he gets constantly undercut and needs the BTC to move AMC forward, as that's the only price he's guaranteed no undercutting. Do you want that to happen again???The more shares you own of AMC (long-term investment) the more you'll be interested that AMC sells its shares when it needs to, and the more you'll want to buy from Ken only! Every income BTC to AMC is directly increasing the value of ALL shares, while sales from flippers mean nothing to increase AMC value.I think you might be trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want to maintain share price, but want the money to only go to AMC. The problem with this is that it only seems like this would protect share price, the dilution would still be real the moment buyers feel the need to start selling. Really, the time for private sales is before an IPO, not after it. If AMC wants people to buy his shares, he must simply offer them at a price the market will pay. |
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1159
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Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] Virtual Mining Hashing Now Available!
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on: June 11, 2013, 04:20:28 AM
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Please note that 21,000 units have been issued so far. The release of new units will be more staggered than the BitFunder version of this asset due to the need for me to secure more of the backing asset.
Releases will be according to market demand, and are not on any set schedule currently.
The first daily payout has already been scheduled.
Thanks!
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1160
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Economy / Securities / [BTC-TC] [TAT.VIRTUALMINE] Virtual Mining Hashing Now Available!
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on: June 11, 2013, 04:17:30 AM
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TAT.VIRTUALMINE represents perpetual virtual mining "bonds" at a value of 1MH/s.*This is asset is being offered for the following purposes:1. To provide the most affordable and competitive alternative to other mining assets currently available. 2. To provide an easy choice for investors to earn mining rewards without the responsibility and hassle of running personal mining rigs and farms. SharesEach 1 share of TAT.VIRTUALMINE represents the equivalent of 1MH/s of hashing ability at current mining difficulty at the time period for which each dividend is paid. Dividends/PayoutsEach TAT.VIRTUALMINE share has the right to 100% of its respective "dividends". The amount of the daily payout is defined as the average mining rewards that would have been generated in the previous 24 hours by 1MH /s of hashing power at the previous day’s mining difficulty at 12PM EST. "Dividends" will be paid daily and are not subject to any management fees, electricity costs, or miscellaneous expenses. Initial Public Offering The initial public offering has begun. Shares may be issued at fair market price at any time, as long as TAT Investments has sufficient backing (see below). Backing of BondsThe total amount of bonds issued will always be backed by a quantity of ASICMINER shares that represent an amount of hashing power that is equivalent to TAT.VIRTUALMINE’s total simulated hashing power, as determined by http://www.asicminercharts.com/live/ or the most recent hashrate as verified by ASICMINER staff. Note: If ASICMINER shares begin to represent a decreasing amount of hashing, or if ASICMINER stops hashing altogether, TAT Investments will stop issuing new bonds until a sufficient alternative backing source can be established.Reserved RightsIssuer reserves the following rights: 1. To issue additional shares as the market demands 2. To buy back shares at any time within the listed parameters 3. To make changes to this contract that represent the best interests of its shareholders 4. To correct and clarify any gross errors or details herein that may prove to be open to misinterpretation Voting RightsThere are no voting rights associated with these bonds. Buyback RightsThe issuer reserves the right to buy back bonds at a price equal to 110% of the highest price the asset was traded for over the prior 7 days or 200 times the value of the most recent dividend. DissolutionIn the event that the issuer chooses to, or is forced to, close this asset for any reason, a new operator may be vetted and chosen by TAT Investments to take over control of the asset, or all bonds will be bought back by the issuer. LinksLink to buy this asset: https://btct.co/security/TAT.VIRTUALMINE Issuer InfoTAT Investments is a Tier 6 BitFunder trader, trusted member of the bitcointalk.org forums, and issuer of the popular TAT.ASICMINER assets. Identity information has been provided privately to BTC-TC as a gesture of good faith, and an avenue for emergency contact. A “dead man’s switch” will be implemented in order to pass control of this asset to a safe secondary operator in the case of the issuer’s untimely demise or hospitalization. IRC: on Freenode, ThickAsThieves E-mail: tat.investments -AT- gmail.com * The formula used:
D is the current difficulty
H is your hash rate in Mhash/s = 1 MH
B is the current block reward in BTC = 25 btc
(H*B/D) * (60*60*24 * 65535 * 10^6 / 2^48)
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? You just sold em 
