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1401  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 22, 2013, 03:17:15 AM
TAT - Had to reply to your (terrible) example.

If direct (or PT) divs = 100 BTC
Then TAT divs =           95 BTC

an example should be simple and illustrate a point.
Meanwhile, what I mean is that I don't trust your security. You're the one who has to make me trust you, not the opposite.
No transfer to direct shares = no trusting the security.


You are welcome to your own interpretation, but I have to warn you that thinking one layer deep is why some people make less money than others. Your example completely ignores my point.

Regarding my security, what do you find lacking?
1402  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 22, 2013, 03:15:35 AM
So even after 3 months of very high dividends, and only paying 1% less for your TAT.AM shares, you are still doing better by 0.026618, which is MORE than I would have collected in fees in 3 months.

Sorry are you saying you're not making a profit at all? Not even breaking even? You must be. I'd be worried if you weren't.

What I'm saying is that my income from dividend fees is very very small.
1403  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 22, 2013, 02:59:16 AM

TAT: Takes 5% of profits + does NOT let you convert into Direct shares.
I'm staying the hell away from that one.

ASICMINER-PT: no tax on divs, can convert to direct share, Burnside is more than a name (he runs the best known BTC exchange: https://btct.co/)
only issue is you need to pay 2.5BTC to buy one share nowadays... But there is more security, dividends and flexibility in the long run.


TAT: Good for dividend reinvestment. Expensive fee on the dividends compared to ASICMINER-PT to be sure, but only 1/100th the cost to get in to the security, making ASICminer available to far more people, and opening up dividend reinvestment to more people as well. Also good for the occasional arbitrage opportunities that show up between the full PT and themselves.  I currently have <100 shares there, which I think is the right number, and the best place for dividends to accumulate at this time.  More than 100 gets swapped up to the full PT when the sell/purch ratios between the two are right.

There are many people that own thousands of TAT.AM. I'd like to run through an example for you, in order to show how small 5% of dividends is as a fee.

Okay, let's assume you want to buy 1 whole-share. In this example, the best price is, say, ฿2.5

Also, let's say the best TAT.AM price at the same time is ฿0.0245 (roughly 1% cheaper), making your total cost ฿2.45 for the equivaleny 100 shares.

Now, let's assume that dividends will be .036 for the next 3 months (this is definitely NOT guaranteed), which would get you a total of ฿0.46764 with your 1 whole-shares (or 100 TAT.AM shares).

If you owned TAT.AM, your 5% mgmt fee would total ฿0.023382 in that 3 months (about $2.86).

Total profit from whole-share: .46764 - 2.5 = ฿-2.03236
Total profit from TAT.AM shares: .46764 - 2.45 - 0.023382  = ฿-2.005742

So even after 3 months of very high dividends, and only paying 1% less for your TAT.AM shares, you are still doing better by 0.026618, which is MORE than I would have collected in fees in 3 months.

The point of this exercise is to show two things. First, that 5% of dividends is a pittance as far as management fees go. My liability of holding these assets in the passthrough is astronomical in comparison. Second, you must do the math to figure out whether the fee will ever affect you. If your goal is to flip the shares in 3-6 months, then the fee is barely a consideration. If you plan to hold shares for a year, then you need to calculate what you are paying for the shares, and what you think dividends will realistically be in that year, to see what the best choice is.

Regarding the inability to export/import shares. I have explained elsewhere that I have good reasons for this. First, I want to get board seat status, so exporting shares is counterproductive to that goal. Second, I want to make Friedcat's life easier and respect that he doesn't need hundreds of requests from me for people trying to convert TAT.AM shares into a handful of whole-shares every week. I might add import/export as a feature in the future, but if I do, there will be quantity minimums, just like the other PTs.

With my PT you also get someone that is dedicated to customer service, security, and transparency of share ownership. To my knowledge, these are not offered by all the passthroughs to the degree in which I provide them.

Thanks for listening!
1404  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTCTC][[ASICMINER-PT]] - Public trading of ASICMINER shares on: May 22, 2013, 01:21:53 AM
Anyone know what time dividends are handed out by freidcat on wednesday?

If I were to sell my shares on btct after freidcat releases, but before burnside distributes, would I get the dividends or would the buyer get them? Just curious  Grin


You must actually hold shares when the asset operator distributes dividends.
1405  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTCTC][[ASICMINER-PT]] - Public trading of ASICMINER shares on: May 22, 2013, 12:22:49 AM
Newbie question  Smiley

How long does it usually take between requesting AM-PT shares be converted to direct and the change being processed? I don't want to hassle burnside as I know he's busy, but I was also hoping my transfer would be processed before dividends come.

Thanks.

1-5 days.

Thanks. So if I've already done an internal transfer to burnside but he hasn't processed it yet, I presume I still get dividends as per usual?

People are pretty good about dividends in mid-transfer. The general rule is, if you've paid for it, and the xfer request is in process waiting on Friedcat, you own it.
1406  Economy / Securities / Re: What is TAT Asicminer on: May 21, 2013, 11:28:17 PM
TAT are pass-through shares of ASICMINER provided by "ThickAsThieves" hence the TAT abbreviation. Each TAT share is worth 1/100 of a normal Asicminer share or any other pass through share of Asicminer. Since you have to buy "whole" units of a share, this smaller unit allows people to buy portions of asicminer without having to pay 2+btc for a piece of the company.

The other versions of asicminer such as AsicMiner-PT or G.Asicminer are all the same shares of AsicMiner stock, just provided by a different person.

burnside is the provider for asicminer-pt and deadterra is the provider of g.asicminer.

Buying a direct share of asicminer establishes a contract with you and freidcat (owner of asicminer)
Buying Asicminer-PT share on establishes a contract with you and burnside, where burnside has a contract with freidcat.
Buying TAT-Asicminer share establishes a contract with you and thickasthieves, where thickasthieves has a contract with freidcat

and etc.

Thanks for helping!
1407  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 21, 2013, 11:27:00 PM
Fee's mostly.
Yeah helpfull answer..
Someone care to explain, pros and cons from buying from one or the other?

What did you want? Someone to hold your hand while you browsed? Lol.

Go read each funds prospectus...the fee's are explained.


TL;DR ASICMiner-PT has no fee's, all the others have 5% or so fee's.

That is an incorrect oversimplification. But yes, one should read the prospectus of each asset carefully before purchasing.
1408  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTCTC][[ASICMINER-PT]] - Public trading of ASICMINER shares on: May 21, 2013, 11:13:20 PM
Newbie question  Smiley

How long does it usually take between requesting AM-PT shares be converted to direct and the change being processed? I don't want to hassle burnside as I know he's busy, but I was also hoping my transfer would be processed before dividends come.

Thanks.

1-5 days.
1409  Economy / Securities / Re: [HAVELOCK] ASICM, a New Micro-share ASICMINER Passthrough! on: May 21, 2013, 10:08:02 PM
Anyone else having issues with slow load times and pages not loading?

Also getting signed out randomly.


It happens during very high trading usually and sometimes today is a good day for that example as ASIC went bonkers again Smiley

I'm investigating this problem.... if anyone can give me a specific date/time that it has happened, it would be much appreciated.. i'm not seeing anything specific in the logs or my usual analytics... server load looks fine, network looks fine... wallet server looks fine... maybe i need to tweak some cloudflare settings or something...



I'd say it happens dozens of times per day and seems to coincide either with orders being placed, filled or possibly with shares being issued. I haven't pinpointed it, but because I see the lag very often, I'm inclined to believe it is related to issuing shares... I really don't know!
1410  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 21, 2013, 09:38:08 PM
Fee's mostly.
Yeah helpfull answer..
Someone care to explain, pros and cons from buying from one or the other?

One sells whole shares, one sells partial shares.  Burnside's has been operational longer... and takes less in fees.  TAT is newer, but the smaller units let you take advantage of compounding interest in a way with dividend reinvestment, although TAT has higher fees.

Personally I have holdings in DIRECT shares, Burnside, and TAT.  I avoided Bitfunder because I do not like their system...
How does one get hold of direct shares?
So which has proven to pay out more?

They all pay relatively the same dividends. The TAT ones withhold 5% of dividends as a management fee. However, please note that this is 5% of divs, not 5% of share value. It would take like a year in 5% div fees to get to 5% of share value, possibly longer.

That is a math detail I've been meaning to clear up. Please take the time to actually figure out how much 5% div fees might cost before ignoring TAT shares. Sometimes getting a TAT share 1% cheaper than elsewhere can erase the worry of 5% div fees for the short term. I know it's a little complicated, but do the math and you'll see what I mean!
1411  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC] TAT.ASICMINER New Micro-share Passthrough! on: May 21, 2013, 09:12:06 PM
So is tat.asicminer on btct.co different than tat.asicminer on bitfunder.com? I just noticed the prices starting to diverge.

Is the BTCT.CO and BITFUNDER.COM the same security? Same name but 2 different securities correct?

All my ASICMINER PTs are one in the same, but cumulative towards one total.
1412  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 21, 2013, 07:02:31 PM
if the shares keep rising like this, we're gonna need a 1/1000th pass through...

lol!
1413  Economy / Auctions / Re: Auction of 50 shares of ASICMiner (12 hour auction!) on: May 21, 2013, 06:42:54 PM
50 @ 2.38
1414  Economy / Auctions / Re: [AUCTION] 50 ASICMiner shares on: May 21, 2013, 06:37:58 PM
50 @ 2.35
1415  Economy / Auctions / Re: Auction of 50 shares of ASICMiner (12 hour auction!) on: May 21, 2013, 06:36:56 PM
50 @2.35
1416  Economy / Auctions / Re: Auction of 50 shares of ASICMiner (12 hour auction!) on: May 21, 2013, 06:25:52 PM
50 @ 2.32
1417  Economy / Auctions / Re: Auction of 400 shares of ASICMINER on: May 21, 2013, 06:14:38 PM
Hopefully friedcat responds here or by PM that transfer was completed. My shares were requested to be transferred to BTCT.CO . Thanks again for the auction rastapool.
Still waiting for transfer to btct.co . Maybe friedcat is busy?

I can confirm that Friedcat is busy. Wink
1418  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC] TAT.ASICMINER New Micro-share Passthrough! on: May 21, 2013, 05:12:33 PM
I'll jump on the bandwagon too, thanks for the good work TaT!

Welcome!
1419  Economy / Auctions / Re: Auction of 400 shares of ASICMINER on: May 21, 2013, 04:15:37 PM
I can confirm I have officially received all my shares from Rastapool. No scam.

Did you receive a confirmation PM from Friedcat or something?

No, I had mine sent to Bitfunder, where DT has already placed them for me.
1420  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTCT.CO][LTC-GLOBAL] Crypto-trade.com : IPO started! on: May 21, 2013, 04:14:27 PM
lost my bet Sad
what went wrong this time?

Ran out of hamster wheels, waiting on service call and more hamsters.

ding dong. anyone looking for a hamster with a... what's that... a horn on its forehead???

Unicornsters! Watch out!
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