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The air used by the ASIC, dumped strait outside would be taken from the room, which would balance the pressure from the apartment, which has Vents that tie apartments together and also to the outside.
Mostly, the air that will be drawn into the room will be from my apartment which will be A/C cooled for my own living confort. Its hard to say the impact it will have.
I'm just trying to offset the heat generated on hot days with a combination of venting the exhaust out (which is definitively hotter than outdoor temp)... maybe evap cooling on dry days and A/C on bad days.
Firstly, MarkAz is spot on with all points he mentioned. Kudo's  As to what your setup will do... for a start, depends on where the thermostat is followed by how makeup air is coming in. I believe most Codes now require some sort of provision to prevent high negative pressure in occupied areas but in most cases a 'leaky' building takes care of that  You said 'apartments' did you mean AC for physical apartments (units) are linked together or just the rooms in your apartment? If possible, short-circuit the airflow into the room by opening another window in the room away from the exhaust or a room/area close to the miner room and leave their doors open... Its because of the bathroom vents things, it seem to connect apartments together, for instance if the lady upstairs smoked in her bath, it would smell like cigarette in my bathroom. And those are connected to exhausts ports. It's probably easier to have common vent than each apartment having their own. We also have cloth washing rooms which are also connected to exhaust ports. There's not supposed to be but there's a small square manhole they cut above my bath to access the bath above for some repair in the past and if i leave that open, there's a significant (heat) draft going from my living room to it. It always seem to suck a lot of air from my apartment, unless i go severely negative pressure. Since i generate a lot of heat i'm pretty much always positive pressure so its easier to plan that way. I'm moving there next Monday and before i start running test its going to be hard to say. Most likely if possible i will want a setup with the room closed and seal on its own circuit, hopefully with evap cooling, so that the noise coming out of it, with acoustic panels will be nil. |
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While I am sure it must be better to exhaust hot air to some extent, my question is always: What is the source of the air that's going INTO the miner and then ducted to the outside? While you are cooling off air that's at say 100F (exhaust), you are obviously going to have to draw outside air, cool it down from what ever it is to say 75F. If the outside air temp is roughly the same temp as the exhaust air temp, then it seems like a wash, doesn't it?
I clearly didn't do thermodynamics in college decades ago, but if the outside air temp is really hot (think Saudi Arabia), I could imagine that it MIGHT be better not to exhaust, wouldn't it?
I would also think that 10KW (or more) in an apartment would be a lot to deal with. I can't imagine going and buying 8-10 blow dryers and turning them on full blast 24/7 in any apartment I lived in. But I wasn't trying to mine Bitcoins then either.
Just a few random thoughts, from a non HVAC guy.
Well i'm doing 15kW atm and its easy since the air go strait out and in Canada its cold outside most of the year. Only sometimes in the summer, during heat waves, does the temp reach 30-40C outside. Which is what i'm preparing for. The air used by the ASIC, dumped strait outside would be taken from the room, which would balance the pressure from the apartment, which has Vents that tie apartments together and also to the outside. Mostly, the air that will be drawn into the room will be from my apartment which will be A/C cooled for my own living confort. Its hard to say the impact it will have. I'm just trying to offset the heat generated on hot days with a combination of venting the exhaust out (which is definitively hotter than outdoor temp)... maybe evap cooling on dry days and A/C on bad days. |
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Well only the cost of the A/C need to be counted, the running cost will be 0. Or rather, the cost of running A/C is not being able to use that power to run a S5 or two instead.
I take it you must not be paying for power, otherwise I'm not sure what kind of rate you're getting to make S5's profitable. The problem with where i'm moving is, the room the miners will be in is a medium bed room with only one window. The window is somewhat high but pretty thin so i can't even fit a 20 inch box fan there. During the cold seasons, so like 7-8 months a year this is not a problem, but during summer, i don't see a way other than using A/C or tons of inline fans dumping the air outside.
If you have a cooling solution for 10-15kW through a single, narrow window, i'm all ears. Using 2-3kW of that capacity for A/C seemed like the only option i know would work.
Another option would be to run them in another room but at 1k RPM fans, so very very underclocked but that sound kind of a waste of money. AC'ing them up and have the exhaust dumped outside with those vinyl tube seem like the way to go, so that the heat generated by the units do not have to be cooled by the A/C, the only loss would be the air from the cooled room being slowly dumped outside. Still better than 2kW being dumped strait in i believe.
Boy, 10-15k of cooling is going to be a tough ask - I built out a model in Excel to give me estimates for my builds, and that works out (on the high side) to be about 47k BTU/hr, and would translate to about 4 tons of cooling with about ~2200 CFM of airflow needed. These are all worst case numbers, but I always designed for 100% operation. Personally I would do ducting from the exhaust-side of your miners to that window - if you saw any of my previous builds, I'm the king of exhaust management, and that is definitely the best bang for the buck. If you can control and isolate your exhaust, then not only are the operating temps in your environment much easier to maintain, but you aren't fighting against yourself as the miners keep generating more heat. If you can construct a smooth enough channel, then the fans in the miners will be enough to move the air and there's no additional power hit. In my builds, I had enough changes in the plenum to require assistance, and I would recommend looking into the squirrel cage fans for trucks - I bought several of these for a test, and they were exceptional: http://www.spalautomotive.com/eng/products/view_centrifugal.aspx?id=007-A42-32DI was paying about $40 each for them on eBay, and they have a ton of static pressure - this is really key in moving lots of air out of a little window. They're also 12v so you can power them from the same PSU's you're using for your miners. In your case you'll want to experiment with what speed to run them at (they're 3 speed), to get the correct blend of SP and CFM. The cheapest way to build test plenums is just to go to home depot and buy 1/2" foam insulation sheets - you can cut these with a hot knife, and use aluminum tape to hole it together. Unlike using a vinyl tube (like a dryer flex duct), these will generally restrict airflow substantially less and also will provide good insulation so the duct itself won't radiate heat back into the room. A 4 foot x 8 feet sheet runs under $8 typically. Its a bit more complicated than that. I'm planning on dumping the heat from the ASIC like that (A6, S5), but for GPU rigs, its not quite as doable unless i put them in some sort of tents, but then they would be so big i might just dump all of the room's air instead. Those blower, i will keep that as an option, can they run quiet? Because well, the goal is to keep everything at 30-40dB which is easy to do with GPU, doable with ASIC underclocked and with not too noisy A/C. At the moment i'm thinking about a combination of Evap cooler in the top left, window is in the top right. And Air going out through the window through the piped ASICs, so humidity should not accumulate in the room, but heat through heat in the air and humidity. It hard to math out, but on dry days, this could be cool enough to keep everything working happy. And for bad, humid days, i'd need to flip on A/C if i want to mine, i believe. |
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Are you in Canada? If so i'll take it.
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If i don't find a buyer for them, i might do that, i'd have to see how exactly its placed, etc. Thanks for the idea. Considering what they are earning, plugging them in an A/C's exhaust for the summer might be a good idea to keep them running cool and quiet.
BTH, I don't think using an AC in conjunction with it would be cost effective - even using evap, which is night and day more cost effective than AC moves the needle on power... And from my simple tests, it didn't seem to be necessary. The big fail on their design was just not extending their grill up and over the controller and using part of that as air input. I can get why they didn't, as right now the clean air flows almost exclusively over heat-generating parts/heatsinks - but I think they failed to think about the stale air getting stuck in the large open area above. Running the controller outside of the case would be another interesting option (as philipma said), but trickier to pull off I think. On the units that I did take apart, I don't recall there being a ton of extra cable length. The other issue would be getting that ribbon cable outside of the case. Depending on whether or not you care about how it looks, you could probably just use tin snips and make channels for then, and could easily drill 4 mounting holes so the PCB stat outside of the case instead of inside. This would definitely solve the stale air issue - but I'm not sure if it would be better than venting inside the case, as in this configuration you're still leveraging the fan in the back of the unit to pull air over it. Now you could obviously add a fan to the board also, but you're adding even more complexity, cost and power consumption to the build - so a couple holes in the front are still the best option I think. Ah, here's one more non-destructive thing you could consider doing first - what about adding Kapton tape on the head sinks directly under the controller, from the front to maybe 1" behind? This is what I'm taking about: http://amzn.to/1NDHlk8The miner is like 6" across, so this roll would be enough to 30+ machines, but remove the controller than the screwdowns - apply the tape so it covers up the top of the heat sinks, from edge to edge, and then replace the screwdowns and put the PCB back in it. The Kapton tape is a thermal insulator, so it should block a fair bit of the heat that's radiating up from the heatsink, and not really change any of the airflow characteristics, since there's only a small gap between the two, and you'll only be blocking a few inches of that. This might be a quick/easy fix... Well only the cost of the A/C need to be counted, the running cost will be 0. Or rather, the cost of running A/C is not being able to use that power to run a S5 or two instead. The problem with where i'm moving is, the room the miners will be in is a medium bed room with only one window. The window is somewhat high but pretty thin so i can't even fit a 20 inch box fan there. During the cold seasons, so like 7-8 months a year this is not a problem, but during summer, i don't see a way other than using A/C or tons of inline fans dumping the air outside. If you have a cooling solution for 10-15kW through a single, narrow window, i'm all ears. Using 2-3kW of that capacity for A/C seemed like the only option i know would work. @Phil well running the controller outside is actually a pretty decent idea, i could also figure a way to lower the intake under 36-40C, its just that to be fully quiet (30dB) they had to be in the acoustic board box. Another option would be to run them in another room but at 1k RPM fans, so very very underclocked but that sound kind of a waste of money. AC'ing them up and have the exhaust dumped outside with those vinyl tube seem like the way to go, so that the heat generated by the units do not have to be cooled by the A/C, the only loss would be the air from the cooled room being slowly dumped outside. Still better than 2kW being dumped strait in i believe. |
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  this is the photo of front heatsink of s5 after removing fan. temperature before cleaning 69 C temperature after cleaning 61 C this miner was cleaned once before using blower but without removing fan. Look a bit worse than some S1's i've cleaned recently. I'm guessing you ran them somewhere pretty dusty. This even look like... grimy ash or something. |
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If you're so inclined, one thing I had considered doing when I was playing around with high temp issues was drilling a couple holes on the front right above the controller (probably wouldn't take too many, maybe 4 right across the front). I think the problem has more to do with the hot air getting trapped in the area where the controller is, and just putting a bit of venting there would be enough to make sure it gets evac'd. If you do consider doing it, make sure to fully disassemble it (pretty simple) so you don't get any metal filings on any of the PCB's.
If i don't find a buyer for them, i might do that, i'd have to see how exactly its placed, etc. Thanks for the idea. Considering what they are earning, plugging them in an A/C's exhaust for the summer might be a good idea to keep them running cool and quiet. |
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Bitcoinware sell them, but not exactly cheap either.
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Not at that price. I may buy them but at a lower price. let me know what you think Cheers There's no price on them, last time i put a price on them was weeks ago. Make an offer? |
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Can't you just take off the cover and point a fan directly on that controller.
lol, Funny idea. I'm not sure how the air flow would be without the enclosure. Anyhow to do this i'd have to remove them from the box, which would mean the hot air would be dumped inside instead of outside and we'd be back to square one. But i'll have to keep that one in mind after i'm done moving... ...or i'll just sell them, its getting pointless to run them at half speed to keep them quiet. How loud are they compared to an S3? I assumed they were very quiet miners according to the Youtube videos. At full speed, like 4.5-5k RPM its pretty much the same as a S7. The fan is less whiny, though, so its louder but not nearly as high pitch. But during the winter, the RPM was at 2k or less and they were nearly silent in my sound proof box. My S3 is silent, i put 18dB 120mm PC fans and its running overclocked fine, temps 55-65C atm (because its hot). The A6 is louder than a S3 all across the board, though. I would not mind trying Sanyo fans. |
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Can't you just take off the cover and point a fan directly on that controller.
lol, Funny idea. I'm not sure how the air flow would be without the enclosure. Anyhow to do this i'd have to remove them from the box, which would mean the hot air would be dumped inside instead of outside and we'd be back to square one. But i'll have to keep that one in mind after i'm done moving... ...or i'll just sell them, its getting pointless to run them at half speed to keep them quiet. |
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What does 1/2 a miner look like, do you just run it 12 hours a day?
Why is the reasoning for putting the miners up high, just to get them out of the way? They'll run cooler if they are pulling in cool air down at the bottom of the barn, the hot air will naturally rise to fill in the head space at the top and then you can vent it via a ridge vent or some gable vents, or vents at each end of the barn up high. You say that the "air can go far", but warm air travels vertically, not horizontally.
The heat on my setup do spread high but also wide, but maybe only after the hot air filled the above area. And he mean a miner with a dead blade. So half an Avalon6. |
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Yeah this week in Canada has a huge heat wave, pretty much had to shut down all my miners, just left the GPUs running since they are more profitable.
And A/C doesn't work either, maybe I need 2 of them running. But having the box fan at 100% seems to keep everything cool enough. But 30C ambient is not pleasant.
Indeed, the intake gets really high, when the air in the room is already at 30C. Set a higher minimum fan speed to prevent it dropping low. They change fan speed quite often which is annoying so if you can set the minimum very near its normal rpm then the speed will be much flatter.
They stabilize but the issue here is the controller get to 45C and the A6 stop mining. I did turn them upside down, no difference. (As in they still reach 45C) My Volts in are flat 12V and cannot be changed. The reading on the UI is completely derped, when underclocked the reading goes up to 12.4V, which may be the voltage inside the units but my EVGA are still feeding 12V. The intake is much higher than 30C. 30C is the room temperature. I just turned them off. |
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No one interesting in buying these?
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A couple of items to consider:
I am pretty sure that controller temp is NOT used in figuring out what speed to set the fan. I think it strictly the temperature of the hashing boards. Is this a Bug (maybe)? I think the 45C is strictly a protection limit to prevent damage to the controller. I wonder if perhaps the fan were drawing too much current that would heat up the controller?
I also don't know how the controller gets any airflow. Phil has cracked open an A6 and might be able to comment on the layout. If your miner warranty has expired, you might consider find a way to better cool the controller. If you were willing to open the case, maybe a small, quiet fan directed at the controller would help. We've all heard the "don't exceed 45C on the controller" warning. How hot is it ambient and how much difference do you have between ambient and 45C?
What are the "Max Frequency" value and the "Minimum Fan" values (using the cgminer config tab)? My experience with "Max Frequency" is that it really isn't a maximum at all, or the unit of measure is off. I've tried a a value of 250 as well as 500, and after a few hours of running, the hash rate is virtually the same.
Is there any airflow around the outside of the case? I ask since I think the case temperature might have a big impact on the controller temp. Just speculating here.
Just a couple of random ideas to consider.
Its clear its the controller stopping its job when it reach 45C and when the blades reach 76C it goes into full cooldown mode. Thanks for the tips, i said what i said but whats really going on is, i'm in the process of moving to a new appartement and thus my setup for cooling these is not available. The max freq really work for me, for instance if i set 100mhz the unit run almost fanless (@1.5TH/s for 2 A6), but the ambiant is over 30C and the intake seem to be 36C so inside the machine must be 40C, not much room for the controller. I need to sell these, or buy an A/C. |
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the controller auto resets at 45C
that gear needs a fast fan setting. Since your first number is too hot
try 60 or 75 for the fan
this should keep the controller at a cooler temp.
Never never never never use auto fan settings.
Auto fan speeds are fine, the cutoff work well. You're even the one that recommended my settings a while back. Anyways. The problem is the controller, which isint being cooled much, 2k or 5k RPM, it still overheat. This is really annoying. And no one seem interested in buying these even though they have been available to buy for many weeks. the controller auto resets at 45C
that gear needs a fast fan setting. Since your first number is too hot
try 60 or 75 for the fan
this should keep the controller at a cooler temp.
Yeah mines never ramps up to full speed but they do ramp up rarely when it's very hot (not enough air flow). I set my fans at 40% min. Seem the intake is just too high, there's no way for me to keep the controller under 45C on hot days. |
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As I read your temp value, there are 3 values in a row: 43 47 50
As I understand it, the 1st of those three values is the temperature of the Controller (not the Pi) within the A6. When that exceeds 40C things get squirlly and it's usually on it's way to shutting down. That seem consistent with your observed behavior. You need to make sure the controller stays cool. Possible options:
1) Supply cooler air to the A6 intake (end with the PCIe power cables).
2) Some folks have considered laying the A6 on one side, possibly upside down.The controller is at the top.
3) Any obvious obstructions at either end for the fan?
4) Are you running either the Delta or Sanyo Ace fan?
5) Are you pushing the input 12V to get a better hash rate?
The short summary is that the controller is TOO HOT (I think).
1) Can't, running A/C is not doable so i use outdoor air 2) Thats worth a try but it work just fine if i set the fan speed so that temp never reach 76C in the first place, so the controller protection preventing fan speed to raise seem kind of a bug, if thats it. 3) No they are being cooled fine and work fine (if the fan are set manually), its the automatic fan speed that is going haywire. 4) Stock, i think its Deltas 5) No its ATX PSU and they are underclocked to keep RPM at 3k (noise), if i set minimum fan speed over 3k they hash fine without the issue, but if its for example 2.8K when they reach 76C after a while, they shut down and go 100% fan speed, instead of raising the fan speed. My ambient temps is always between 28-33 and I never had one issue with my AV6 BUT my first temperature never go over 41, currently at 39.
I dont know why the controller isint getting air or why it would prevent fans from spinning up, though. |
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So the days started to get a bit hotter and i noticed my Avalons derping horribly. They start and mine, then dont spin up the fan much, then when temp reach over 75C, the fan go 100% for a few minutes and stop hashing. Then do it over and over again. https://i.imgur.com/qYA2R4s.png?1You can see here the first one finish its cool down period and start hashing again, just by the time the second one stop mining and put fans full blast + stop hashing. https://i.imgur.com/UjW6GQ6.png?1The issue is rather intermittent, but only seem to happen when the ambiant is a bit hot. (30C @ intake) |
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can any please tell me that how are these gonna work? and what kind of post could be posted on these? please explain ?
Are you asking what the subforums are for? Meta is to talk about the forum, this is where this thread would belong. Mining support is support for mining Bitcoin, not to be used in case of any Altcoins. Technical Support is for more technical/advanced topics, like backend stuff the typical user has no hand in. thanks bro. can you please tell me that how to get a signature for me?? |
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I guess in several months we might know better. Not before Q4 is my guess. So long enough that you dont need to worry about it at current profitability. But soon enough that ASICs probably won't hit. Also the cost of making ASIC using a DAG would probably be expensive, and doing it without a DAG would probably mean very very low performance.
So i'm not worried. Worse case scenario, Switch GPU to something else. ETH is no longer the "drop everything and mine that" currency. It's still good but private miners do better, now.
So I take it from your comments that you aren't trying to hold/save the bulk of the Etherum that you mine? If that's true, what do you exchange it for? Split between savings and more hardware. Holding is money wasted imo. Unless you get lucky and the price explode, anyways. |
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