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661  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] on: December 05, 2013, 10:06:47 PM
Re-post re: share price-

I'm sure some of you have heard of a thing called P/E ratio (price-earnings ratio)?

It's a very simple formula universally used for valuing a listed company and it's shares which most often involves you dividing the share price by the annualised earnings per share.

here is a basic introduction:

http://www.allstarstocks.com/gpage2.html


So instead of guessing how much you think share price will go to using your divining rod or a set of Rune stones just use the p/e ratio.

All you need to know is the total amount of BTC that will be paid out in divs to public investors in year 1 and then you divide that by the number of shares to get your annual earnings per share figure. You then choose a share price - lets say the IPO of 0.0025 and divide that by your annual earnings per share figure to get the p/e ratio.

An acceptable p/e ratio to investors in the real world would range from anything from 10:1 to 100:1 - it's going to be based around the company prospects for growth and continued business.

OK so who want's to start? Me? OK-

I think 4justice's table gave a yearly total for public investors (taking into account the drop when Kens shares get divs) of around 40k BTC.

40,000/10,000,000=0.004
0.0025/.004=0.625

So now we need to decide what P/E ratio investors will be happy with. 0.625:1 would put the share price at 0.0025 - obviously. Now if the company has solid prospects and good accounts there is a world of investors out there who would bite your right arm off to get in at a P/E ratio of 0.625:1. It's incredibly good value - so long as the company is solid.

I would say with BTC rising so commendably that a P/E ration of 10:1 would be conservative - so that would mean a share price of 0.04 > 0.04/0.004=10

Anyone please correct my arithmetic/logic and make comments.

PPS - 4justice's table is I think conservative.

Are you saying here that we need to view this from a perspective of investors who are wishing to cash-out in dollars? Suppose the share price was 0.04 and an investor decided to invest BTC50, they would only have 1250 shares. Assuming they got the .0025 per share, their payout would over that time interval come to BTC3.125. That isn't all that much for a BTC50 investment. In current dollar terms that would be about $3000.
662  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] on: December 05, 2013, 09:21:19 PM
CRUMBS IS DESPERATE TO BUY YOUR SHARES.

Months of Trolling and EXTREME FUD over the past few weeks and he is TEARING AT THE BIT to get his hands on ACtM shares.

HE IS POSTING ABOUT CRYPOSTOCKS WITHIN MINUTES OF US BEING LISTED!


WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?


It tells you that EVERYTHING we have been saying for the past weeks is correct.

THIS STOCK IS GOING TO EXPLODE.

You know it and so does CRUMBS - ACtM NO1. TROLL.


I said it last week and I need to say it again to protect those who have been dupped before by these TROLLS - DO NOT sell below 0.007 as this stock is going to 0.04. within the next few weeks.




no accounts created yet

How did these appear?

If it goes to .04 I will sell. that would mean that ActM is worth 1/30th of the total outstanding bitcoins.
663  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 08:02:03 PM
I hate how Gox takes the fees out after the transaction and does not add them into the purchase/sale preview. Its like, "Surprise! We just subtracted $20 from your sale."

That buy/sell/transaction log is the worst i've ever seen, if you can even call it that. It's just a messy cluttered hard to understand table.
Yeah, exactly. But yet I deciphered it and lost coins by buying low and selling high.

slippage?
What is slippage? Regardless of fee percentage, if you sell higher than you bought and the gain percentage is higher than the fee percentage you should make a profit.

If you market sell/buy but there aren't enough bitcoins at the price you're offering, it goes down or up to the next price in the list. So for example, if you sell 20BTC at 1150 in a market order, but there are only 10BTC on the book being bought at 1150, and the next 10 at 1145, you will sell the first 10 at 1150 and the last 10 at 1145. The 50 you lose vs selling them all at 1150 is your slippage.
They are limit orders, no market orders.
664  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 07:55:33 PM
I hate how Gox takes the fees out after the transaction and does not add them into the purchase/sale preview. Its like, "Surprise! We just subtracted $20 from your sale."

That buy/sell/transaction log is the worst i've ever seen, if you can even call it that. It's just a messy cluttered hard to understand table.
Yeah, exactly. But yet I deciphered it and lost coins by buying low and selling high.

slippage?
What is slippage? Regardless of fee percentage, if you sell higher than you bought and the gain percentage is higher than the fee percentage you should make a profit.
665  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] on: December 05, 2013, 07:45:29 PM
If I fired up my two 7970's and started mining the most profitable scrypt coin, it would still take me 28 days with the GPUs running 24hours a day to earn the equivalent of 1 btc.  Not worth the noise.
For most people making $1000+ per month is worth the noise.
666  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 07:43:53 PM
I hate how Gox takes the fees out after the transaction and does not add them into the purchase/sale preview. Its like, "Surprise! We just subtracted $20 from your sale."

That buy/sell/transaction log is the worst i've ever seen, if you can even call it that. It's just a messy cluttered hard to understand table.
Yeah, exactly. But yet I deciphered it and lost coins by buying low and selling high.
667  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 07:42:44 PM
one should worry if it doesn't pass 1100 by tomorrow, support would become resistance and the tide may turn. i'm 50/50
Well it just passed 1100, in fact pushing 1120!
means nothing. Could be just a burp.
668  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 07:23:49 PM
If the bot pattern that I think may be happening is actually happening, we are going to briefly drop to around 1010-1020 in the next 7 hours.

Just a side note... Gox is the only place I have traded where I lost coins having sold higher than I bought them. Ponder that.
669  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 07:19:53 PM
We've seen this before. Capital controls result in desperate buys to get fiat off exchanges.

Once again, bitcoin goes up in price for all the wrong reasons.

I am retarded.  what does this mean in retard language?
He claims that people are buying bitcoin not because they want bitcoin but only to facilitate taking their money off the exchange. For example, trying to get dollars off of Gox is like trying to wrestle a cupcake from a fat kid.
670  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] on: December 05, 2013, 07:17:43 PM
the sha-256 miners cannot be used to mine scrypt alt-coins.  there are currently no asic's available that will mine scrypt coins but there is at least one company developing them (https://alpha-t.net/).  i have mined all types of sha-256 coins with asics, and all types of scrypt coins with cpus/gpus.  lorenzo is correct with his statement that you just need to point your mining software to the pool of your choice.  for my scrypt coins i use middlecoin.com because they mine the most profitable coin at the time and automatically convert it to BTC and pay you out every day.

edit - the sites that say LTC is that much more profitable is misleading.  there is a greater power cost to mine scrypt coins.  for the 2500 kh/s of GPUs i am running my power usage is between 1500 - 2000 watts.  my avalons (4x102gh/s) use 3600 watts, and my antminers (2x180gh/s) use less than 800 watts.
In most places power costs are not going to even come close to overcoming a nominal 30x profitability.
671  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 07:00:27 PM
I hate how Gox takes the fees out after the transaction and does not add them into the purchase/sale preview. Its like, "Surprise! We just subtracted $20 from your sale."
672  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] on: December 05, 2013, 06:58:09 PM
Don't you need a big gpu farm to be making a decent figure from mining scrypt coins?

I see there are scrypt ASIC devices on the horizon.
Pretty much but it is still way more profitable. LTC is currently 30 times more profitable. Most of the GPUs have been bought up since the price increase.
673  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] on: December 05, 2013, 06:42:43 PM
My mining farm has successfully mined ZetaCoins.
Basically, the mining software interacts with the blockchain and the mining hardware. If the mining software (bfgminer, e.g.) is changedto use a different blockchain and to connected with a different set of mining servers, it has in effect created a different altcoin.  The way I mined Zetacoin was by chaning the parameters in bfgminer to point to a different mining pool.


On another note, I have no idea how you mine with scrypt. It seems that scrypt based coins are very profitable at the moment. I have not foind an alt coin which is more profitable that bitcoin. Does any one have any suggestions or any real experience with anything else other than BTC?


I could be wrong with that last statement but that's what I thought
Yes, both LTC and FTC are more profitable than Bitcoin.

Currently, about 20-30 times more profitable.
674  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] on: December 05, 2013, 05:57:03 PM
I could be wrong with that last statement but that's what I thought
A bitcoin miner can be used with any SHA256 crypto as far as I am aware.
675  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 04:49:10 PM
I think this may be the action of another bot. Once this develops a bit more I will show the pattern.
676  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 04:36:08 PM
Gox!!!! Get your damn trading engine fixed!
677  Economy / Securities / Re: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated] on: December 05, 2013, 01:59:55 PM
From the details on Crypto-Trade:


The largest Bitcoin Mining Farm in the world?  seems like a very bold claim to make...
Lets hope it happens.
678  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 12:02:15 PM
This is just getting started guys, stop suffering from myopia.

When I step back, by 20/20 vision sees triangles forming. Are you suggesting that they should see the price dropping further?

Yes, I'd say theres a relatively small percentage of the bitcoin world actually seen this crash and news so far. Lets even say 50%. When they log on and see their purchases at 1050+ are now sub 1000, there could be even larger sell off's.

But the news has already updated to say it's not such bad news. With that, I can't see latecomers panic selling when the charts also look like they might be bottoming.

Dude stop reading what some bull manipulates the news to say as fact. It's bad news full stop. China's banning financial institutions from handling bitcoin transactions, if you see that as good news for Chinese exchanges or for bitcoin in China alone, your deluded.
This basically means that financial institutions are going to die in China. Why would China promote Bitcoin and then start banning its use?
679  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 11:47:19 AM
It would be nice if we could trade this without having to depend on Gox's "Blazzingly Fast" Midas Engine.

I was filled at 919 USD on this last down leg with no problem. The trick is not to use market order.
I tried that over a period of 15 minutes and I couldn't keep up.
680  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: December 05, 2013, 11:37:49 AM
Guys if we don't go down to $500 or even lower, the Xmass will be greeeeen as never before.
There you have it folks... Mark It!
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