What are the current ideas of having coins on top of Nxt:
- Coins via Asset Exchange
- Coins as parallel blockchains
- Using AM (How? And is this idea dismissed?)
- ...?
+1 Would be great if someone can create a write-up outlining the differences. |
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fact or fiction...
lemonandfries == emule....
fact!!!
I am a simple bio/physics major student. Leave that idea alone already. I wish I was emule because then I'd have a bunch of money, but sadly I am not. I will leave you with that, such an irrational and illogical community, Talk about close mindedness and wishful thinking. You are a student and you are preaching about imagination land. Haha, okay, let the big boys continue the discussion in the real world. |
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NXT AT PROJECT HELP. NEED JAVA PROGRAMMER.
This is a request by CIYAM for help with AT. Need to get on this asap
Quote:
The first thing we are going to need is a Java programmer to convert my C++ prototype (and yes I want the Java code to use the console so we can easily run test cases).
Unfortunately CfB isn't interested in doing this in a way that would allow for proper testing so I'd rather he wasn't actually involved in AT other than providing assistance with the Nxt AT API side of things (i.e. how Nxt AT can send and receive transactions as well as get other information and some general functions like say testing a hash value).
Anyone interested in helping CIYAM? |
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If we agree that it is no ordinary coin for the above reasons, then we should consider Ricky's point about NodeCoin altering the very fabric of Nxt; and not just brushing it aside as just a coin anybody can create on top of Nxt.
Personally... I do view Nodecoin as just a project/asset/coin... but let me make one thing clear... IF the intention of " Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever)" was to exclude NXT from being used as well... then it is definitely a NO GO. I Agree... Last time I checked, the only reason to any Nxt service (DAC, NxtCash) was to spend/receive Nxt, so why would using any of those services exclude Nxt? We have a Nxt platform and apart from the core, anyone should be allowed to develop anything they want on top of it. If we don't encourage complete openness to our platform, others will develop in alt POS coins. |
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"They're PoW and use LOTS of power; we're PoS so we don't have to".
This still stands. AE users don't run nodes by having their clients unlocked. Rewarding (and compensating) Nxters who run nodes for securing the network, seems fair to me. I also have nothing against the gamification element. Yeeeeeah, it's fun to see Nodecoins being generated. But "gambling"? How? You don't play. AE is far more dangerous in that aspect than a (green) reward system, called Nodecoin. NodePoints. Is that better? I think there is a generational thing here and I am on the old end of the stick. I never spent any time playing a video game watching a point counter go up and up and up to happy little sounds, I wasted my time watching people go for huge piles of money on The Sopranos, The Shield and Breaking Bad. I want huge piles of money. I want 1 NXT = $1000. I don't see how giving out free coins makes that happen. Of course, I don't understand how Farmville or Candy Crush or Twitter makes money either. Oh wait, they don't. NXT is an ecosystem and lots of things find their niche in a true ecosystem. Good luck, James. Unfortunately I could not disagree with you more. We aren't going to shrink wrap Nxt and sell it in Walmart. It's definitely a generational thing. Some people don't understand why Whatsapp is worth $19Bil without making a cent. It's because they focused on nothing but offering the best free service and building userbase at which point companies (facebook) said "That 500mil userbase is worth something" BTW, Twitter made $250m and Zynga (Farmville) made $311M last quarter. Nodecoin is not changing Nxt. It's an asset on Nxt exchange, one that I believe is extremely innovative. Nxt is still POS, it Always will be. There is an asset that is POW, but it's not in Nxt core. It's a new coin built on top of Nxt. We can't tell people what assets they can and can't build. We need to encourage everyone to build anything they want on top of Nxt, because no matter what, they will need to acquire Nxt to buy, sell, send, any asset. To me, it's very anti-nxt to try and discourage any idea no matter how radical. |
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Hi Brian Nowhere, it's been a long day and you have joined the party late here today. I am going to refer you to http://ripplescam.org/ and you can read all about how Ripple is not actually decentralized. All your other questions can be answered by actually reading this monster thread or the newsletter here: http://nxter.org/nxt-newsletter-5/. I've read ripplescam.org before so I'm familiar with it. Part of my point is that from some of the talk I've surmised by reading this thread there has been allusions to to the fact that to get true Transparent Forging working as promised (to obtain transaction speeds that can compete with Ripple's) we are going to need high end servers running on VPS's that will require administration and money. Who will be running these servers save for a few NXT fat-cats with a vested interest? How is that very much different or less centralized than what Ripple is doing? ripplescam is also a little outdated as they have released the server source code and anyone can run one. Bitstamp and Peercover would be likely candidates to do so if anything every happenedd to Ripple Labs, which is pretty much the same argument I hear regarding the type of people who will run servers for NXT. With Ripple at least I know it works, transactions in XRP are fast and irreversible and I don't have to worry about whether enough Ripple users are running nodes now or in the future or worry about DDOS attacks. As far as the decentralization goes, maybe NXT represents a slight improvement but that's about the only area it is superior. In almost every other area from what I can see, Ripple does it either the same or better. For a decentralized system to beat a centralized one it still has to be superior. Merchants and Consumers don't really care about the inner workings. It will come down to which system they trust more. Yawn. Edit: Still yawning. |
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to jl777
i think you will have two problems to implement nodecoin,or nodecoins
1: you can issue nodecoin,or nodecoins at Nxt blockchains(not testnet)
2: send 10 nodecoin will cost 1 nxt, that 10nodecoin=1nxt
Why is that a problem, I don't get the logic on this thread sometimes. If user has to spend Nxt to send any asset, that is a good thing, it means people are using/buying Nxt. James, please release Nodecoin when asset exchange launches. I'm looking forward to what all AE coins have to offer. |
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Nodecoin will not allow you to circumvent Nxt fees, it's not built into core. It's just an asset that you get for running a node, very simple. People will have to run Nxt client to get Nodecoin, so I have no idea why this would be perceived as bad for Nxt. Nodecoin should be redeemable for accessing services (DAC, NxtCash, whatever), not for Nxt itself. I don't see anyone trading Nxt for Nodecoin. It gives us a good testcase for AE coins. Thank you James. Now let's help James with DAC, NxtCash, the good stuff!
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I support Nodecoin and jl777 !
+1, you guys need to take a step back for a second, nodecoin will have a positive effect on Nxt. It encourages people to run a node, why is that bad? It's a utility coin and it had the potential to bring a couple thousand new users to Nxt, which is great. It's an accomplishment that James was able to create a mine-able coin in AE, that is awesome. I think many people are greatly overestimating the effect it will have on Nxt. To get anything done with Nxt core, you will need to spend Nxt, so people aren't going to circumvent the Nxt core with nodecoin. I still think charging nodecoin for services like DAC is a great idea. Anyone using DAC will still be spending Nxt in the end. It gives people incentive to run a node, which is incredibly simple, and they will feel like they are accomplishing something and "part of the Nxt club". It's more of a novelty, but would be cool to make people run a client for a while in order to use DAC, or NxtCash. To say it's bad for Nxt just doesn't make any sense to me. If it doesn't work out and no one mines it or uses it, so what, at least we know how to create a mine-able coin in AE. |
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Will read shortly, thanks for posting.
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Nodecoins are a cancer - time will tell if I am right or wrong...
Cancer? Why? Nxt is meant to have coins built on top of it. There are coins made by using the AM feature (see CfB's abandoned effort), parallel chain coins and nodecoin. Nodecoin is parasitic IMO.. Disagree, I think implementing a mine-able coins in AE is a great innovation, regardless of where nodecoin goes, it's good work by James! I think you are being a little dramatic with the cancer/parasitic remarks. |
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Crypto Review Completed, please read. Thanks to Jesse James for completing with thorough review and BloodyRookie for reference. From Jesse James:"I spent some quality time reviewing the core crypto NXT relies on. As part of my review I re-implemented the relevant algorithms https://gist.github.com/doctorevil/9521126 using a different approach in a different language to make sure I understood everything deeply. Although the implementation NXT uses doesn't follow certain algorithm specifications to the letter, the deviations noted (motivated by simplicity and/or performance) seemed reasonable and in general nothing stuck out as a red flag. There was one bug in the signature generation function (that NXT is aware of and currently working around) for which I've provided a patch (or more precisely tweaked BloodyRookie's proposed patch). It should be should be safe for devs to incorporate this patch at their convenience. Review: https://gist.github.com/doctorevil/9521116Code: https://gist.github.com/doctorevil/9521126 "
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NXT AT PROJECT HELP. NEED JAVA PROGRAMMER.
This is a request by CIYAM for help with AT. Need to get on this asap
Quote:
The first thing we are going to need is a Java programmer to convert my C++ prototype (and yes I want the Java code to use the console so we can easily run test cases).
Unfortunately CfB isn't interested in doing this in a way that would allow for proper testing so I'd rather he wasn't actually involved in AT other than providing assistance with the Nxt AT API side of things (i.e. how Nxt AT can send and receive transactions as well as get other information and some general functions like say testing a hash value).
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This is from ChuckOne regarding his work on Cross Chain Transactions (CCT), we need input to help develop:
I am waiting for:
- AE and AT
- usability/security ideas/suggestions in the CCT thread, i.e. in which want you as a user trade BTC and NXT?
As you might imagine it's not just "click a button and let NXT trade BTC <-> NXT". You need to somehow specify your BTC account, your NXT account. So, do you want to store you bitcoin-wallet in your CCT/NXT client? How much convenience do you as user need/want?
What are the restrictions? Do you want to be online when the transactions are exchanged (remember: we cannot store private data on the blockchain)? How long do you want to be online? Do you have client/node you trust that can be online for you for the time being to refund in case your trading partner scammed you?
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We shouldn't be looking at Nodecoins as a buy and sell commodity. We should be looking at Nodecoins as a Nxt Utility coin. For example. If you want to use the DAC, you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve Doge address, then you can transfer Doge to DAC. If you want to use NxtCash for Mixing you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve NxtCash address, then send Nxt for mixing....and so on. We have some really great features that will be built on top of Nxt and we should charge users Nodecoins to use those features. That will give them value.
But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system. I am not sure if there is any usurping going on. Using this logic, if we started trading BTC using NXT AE, then somehow this hurts NXT? I dont think that is what would happen. I think the value of NXT would be proportional to the sum of the values of all of the NXT AE assets plus the current value. So if nodecoins become worth something, then NXT becomes incrementally more valuable. Also, you are not taking into account the fact that without NXT, there is no nodecoin. This also seems to be what BCNext wanted from what I can remember. If people deposit $1 billion USD into NXT and we have that much USD assets floating around inside AE, would that suck all the value out of NXT? If nodecoins became worth $1 USD each, would that suck all the value out of NXT? James Trying to catch up on thread but wanted to comment on Nodecoin. Why not make Nodecoin unlimited, is that possible in AE? That way if you want to use DAC, NxtCash (or any Nxt service) and you don't have nodecoin, you have to run the client and mine nodecoin. No one should have to purchase nodecoin from a miner. Why nodecoin would be required to use Nxt services? That would kill Nxt, i believe. No it wouldn't, how would encouraging users to run forging clients kill Nxt? These are optional features that have nothing to do with Nxt core. Nodecoin shouldn't be bought or sold, it should be mined easily by running a client, then you can actually use those nodecoins. |
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We shouldn't be looking at Nodecoins as a buy and sell commodity. We should be looking at Nodecoins as a Nxt Utility coin. For example. If you want to use the DAC, you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve Doge address, then you can transfer Doge to DAC. If you want to use NxtCash for Mixing you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve NxtCash address, then send Nxt for mixing....and so on. We have some really great features that will be built on top of Nxt and we should charge users Nodecoins to use those features. That will give them value.
But then you're basically inflating the currency and usurping value from Nxt as it should be the unit used for these purposes, no? These are roles that Nxt would take; doing so with nodecoin reduces Nxt's functions and in turn it's demand/value as opposed to nodecoin adding value on top of the system. I am not sure if there is any usurping going on. Using this logic, if we started trading BTC using NXT AE, then somehow this hurts NXT? I dont think that is what would happen. I think the value of NXT would be proportional to the sum of the values of all of the NXT AE assets plus the current value. So if nodecoins become worth something, then NXT becomes incrementally more valuable. Also, you are not taking into account the fact that without NXT, there is no nodecoin. This also seems to be what BCNext wanted from what I can remember. If people deposit $1 billion USD into NXT and we have that much USD assets floating around inside AE, would that suck all the value out of NXT? If nodecoins became worth $1 USD each, would that suck all the value out of NXT? James Trying to catch up on thread but wanted to comment on Nodecoin. Why not make Nodecoin unlimited, is that possible in AE? That way if you want to use DAC, NxtCash (or any Nxt service) and you don't have nodecoin, you have to run the client and mine nodecoin. No one should have to purchase nodecoin from a miner. |
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On Nodecoin/NXTcoin:
1) Who will buy them? It seems to me that it will follow the mine & dump path, so:
2) It will devalue NXT
PS: Ricky do you have skype? If yes PM me your ID please...
We shouldn't be looking at Nodecoins as a buy and sell commodity. We should be looking at Nodecoins as a Nxt Utility coin. For example. If you want to use the DAC, you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve Doge address, then you can transfer Doge to DAC. If you want to use NxtCash for Mixing you have to send 10 Nodecoins to retrieve NxtCash address, then send Nxt for mixing....and so on. We have some really great features that will be built on top of Nxt and we should charge users Nodecoins to use those features. That will give them value. |
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First Post UpdateI updated the link on the first post for the AT Development Thread to Ian's CIYAM NXT AT Forum. I think Ian's CIYAM forum is a good way to foster development and should be used for more NXT dev projects. Currently, projects can only be funded in BTC, but Ian has offered to add a NXT funding field. NXT AT project currently has 1.058 BTC allocated to development.If Come-from-Beyond doesn't have the time or resources to finish parallel blockchains, the community can use Ian's site to fund and develop it.I also received a message from Copperlark informing me that the crypto exchange UpBit.org is now trading NXT. +1, I think we should post the Parallel Blockchain project on CIYAM.org, perhaps when he's done with AT, he will be interested in developing. I have BTC/Nxt saved for the occasion and I seem to be the only one funding AT as well, although I'm sure we can give him a bounty on completion. The more Nxt Ciyam has, the better. |
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@CFB, are you currently developing Parallel Blockchain? If not, want to find someone to head up project.
Currently I'm working on Digital Goods Store. Thanks, do you plan on developing PB before your departure? I know you offered assistance for those willing to head up the project in the past. Depends on if AT does require PB. If not, then I'll implement only AT. This doesn't sound like a sure thing as many people are assuming here. I believe CFB is looking for a technical member of the community to step up and implement Parallel Blockchains. Perhaps this should be the first task for Tech committee, w/ reward bounty. |
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Refreshing the browser is the same as logging out, I guess I could add a session storage thingie so that it auto-logs in again? It would just be your account ID and auto-log in again on refresh. (And also if you open a new tab and go to the site). When you close the browser completely and re-open you would have to log in again. People, you want this feature? Why does Wesley's client log you out when you refresh the browser?
Perhaps make it an option in settings, I for one would not want it for security reasons. |
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