|
Rename this thread to LAST siacoin asic
|
|
|
|
How else were bitmain and innosilicon supposed to test their product?
"In total, 550 blocks were mined in secret during the 2 months previous to the Antminer A3 announcement, representing around 85 million Siacoins in block rewards. According to CoinMarketCap, the value of Siacoin oscillated during November and January on the range of 0.5 and 11 USD cents. Interestingly, the maximal historic value of SC was reached on January 6th, 11 days before the Bitmain announcement. Depending on the moment they sold their “warchests”, they could have obtained something between $0.4 and $9 million from the secret mining operation. According to some estimations, the development of the A3 costed Bitmain $10 million. If they planned the trades carefully, this means they could have recovered the whole cost of the ASIC development just by secret mining during those 2 months."= "testing"... LOLYou do like jokes, don't you?  "This, of course, on top of the $74 million in sales profit just from the first 2 batches ($2300 per unit and 33,000 units as we explained above)."I invite you to look at the charts again. Here is the hashrate graph... notice that hashrate was negligible before ASICs were introduced. Then notice the hashrate after ASICs. If Bitmain were mining with thousands of ASICs before the official announcement, you would see it in the graph. The bursts before the announcement were tests. How else were bitmain and innosilicon supposed to test their product?  Now, here is the difficulty charts again... notice the very small increase in difficulty before the official release of ASICs. Again this is indicative of testing. Look at the difficulty after ASICs... again... if Bitmain were mining with thousands of ASICs before the official announcement, you would see it in the graph.  The amount of money mined during testing is irrelevant, because the ASICs would dominate during these bursts. Again all the A3 launche was again thier scorched earth tactics to destroy baikal and mostly oblesik , by making thier machines doa, same thing they did with x11. Theres nothing strange about it , they didn’t like competition |
|
|
|
Again... Bitmain is not stupid, they are a business, and they sell the first batch based on estimates of what this "money-printing-machine" will mine over a reasonable length of time. Plus, there is a scarcity factor of the first batch that will allow a premium price versus later batches.
It's no different than when a brand new GPU series comes out, the scarcity of obtaining that GPU can cause the retail price to exceed MSRP, which is what the manufacturer thinks the card is worth on the open market.
Thats a ridiculously stupid analogy GPUs that sell first batch like that are usually sold to enthusiast gamers who must have the fastest gaming system money can buy . this has nothing to do with roi , it has nothing to do with how much money you will make since profit is not the reason games buy the new flagship gpus. It's a simple supply vs demand scenario for both the first batch off bitmain ASICs and first run GPUs. Surely you don't disagree with that? when it comes to bitmain selling the toasters yes the first batch prices are high based on potential predicted roi And limited supply based on whatever competition they might have. Potential capital recovery times are a big factor in pricing of that first batch... we agree. -the problem is What they don’t tell you is that they have 10 more batches plan at half the price which would dilute the current earnings and future earnings of the batch that you bought and first batch so it’s basically false advertising on top of that the pricing is total bullshit. It's a wash price-wise. Take the Z9 mini for example. A $2000 batch one price with a 2 month head start in mining over batch two that sold for $850 is a wash over the lifetime of both batches of Z9 minis. There might be bread crumbs of difference over the life span, not taking into account coin pricing fluctuations... but believe me... bitmain does their homework on batch pricing. why do you think it took so long for the l3s and s9s to become unprofitable, the old normal life span of an asic was two solid years of decent profits... assuming you got lucky enough to buy into the rare batch launches. Altcoin pricing is highly volatile, and heavily dependent on bitcoin pricing. Bitcoin ASICs lifetime performance is fairly predictable over it's useful lifespan when you take into account the exponential difficulty/hashrate increases. Litecoin ASICs have enjoyed a nice ride over the past year, with early adopters gaining the most bang for their buck. with the D3 bitmain took up a scorced earth policy that has continued today, thier goal is to be the only game in town, since they mine with thier best hardware for years in advance anyways they don’t care about the current profit or life expectancy of the CURRENT gear they are selling you idiots. The D3 was a strange scenario. Baikal was the only game in town before Bitmain came on board. But let's not put the blame solely on Bitmain here... people were buying their product... they are just as much to blame. even know they are probably using thier next gen , eth,cn7 sha256 miners in house on open air boards , In a year or so when they go from making $50 a day per unit they will sale then to you and you will again lap up thier dregs lol
Evidence please. Beyond development, testing, and QA there has never been any definitive proof that Bitmain has done this. There has certainly been a lot of conjecture from people saying "that's what I would do"... which just shows you the greed that people have... relates to the D3 point above. Bitmain shills out in force I see, honesty no one believes a word that comes out bitmains mouths and their shills included. No evidence that they don’t have secret farms? lol |
|
|
|
The answer to the question as always remains a no and it is a bad time to buy GPU.
lol i think some side yes. maybe for small cash. the time is fly if you buy cheap why not?im know miners risk it for ROI. what i said profit in case there new coins. so yes. we not just mine ether dude~ Buying GPUs now is like buying into a pyramid/ponzi scheme right before it collapses. GPU mining is now threatened by a number of factors such as ASICs, algorithm updates, new designs, etc, etc. There is no more IF when talking about when GPU mining will end. Sadly, it's now only a matter of WHEN, GPU mining will end. buying now yeah is risky but ending? gtfo |
|
|
|
I’m still using one R9 280 with Frankenstein cooler made from two 120 mm fans. I undervolted this card in the Bios and I’m using it for Monero mining. Unfortunately my card has Hynix memory with bad quality so I have only 500 h/s with 1,013V VDDC, GPU Core 1000 Mhz, Memory 1400 Mhz. GPU_Z shows VDDC power only 30 W. I think it’s not so bad.
yeah i don’t know how ppl claim 700 or even 600 hs with tatiti 7950s and 280s i get like 450 480 max power usesage is way lower than what people claim though 80 to 100 watts from the wall What memory do you have? I had bad speeds with Elpida memory. With the Hynix memory I get 600H/S easy. I’m still using one R9 280 with Frankenstein cooler made from two 120 mm fans. I undervolted this card in the Bios and I’m using it for Monero mining. Unfortunately my card has Hynix memory with bad quality so I have only 500 h/s with 1,013V VDDC, GPU Core 1000 Mhz, Memory 1400 Mhz. GPU_Z shows VDDC power only 30 W. I think it’s not so bad.
Is this an R9 280 or an R9 280X? Maybe you got less compute units. seems like hynix |
|
|
|
Update: Second hashboard on the E3 has shit the bed.
Super disappointed in the quality of this shipment. When I received it, the E3 had one DOA board, plus the metal around the control board was loose and rattling. Now a second board has failed? Come on.
Bitmain is pulling the "Send it in for warranty" card.
these are old chips bro, refurbished boards been running for at least a year, no suprise here |
|
|
|
how do you survive in this bear trend with mining? I admire your goals and long term efforts and one day I hope to have your dreams, But how do you survive this winter storm?
I guess he is not selling any coin he is mining right now and the money he has, he is using to pay the bills as he goes, mining was profitable, last year was 100 days to get your money back, so he might be at loss today but last year he was up, so there is a balance there, fat cows last year, slim cows this year and hopefully fat cows next year, this is called planning cause everybody knows fat cows will lose weight and then regain it back and will lose again. That is how life is in general, ups and downs, need to be strong when cows are slim and wise when cows are fat. Infrastructure is never a bad investment, hes not renting so really his only cost going forward is maintenance and power |
|
|
|
I’m still using one R9 280 with Frankenstein cooler made from two 120 mm fans. I undervolted this card in the Bios and I’m using it for Monero mining. Unfortunately my card has Hynix memory with bad quality so I have only 500 h/s with 1,013V VDDC, GPU Core 1000 Mhz, Memory 1400 Mhz. GPU_Z shows VDDC power only 30 W. I think it’s not so bad.
yeah i don’t know how ppl claim 700 or even 600 hs with tatiti 7950s and 280s i get like 450 480 max power usesage is way lower than what people claim though 80 to 100 watts from the wall |
|
|
|
To make this clear I don't hate "ASIC MINING" . . simply put all of the current producers are trash -- just analyze Bitmains price gouging tactics, and then they become "good guy bitmain" after their coupon airdrop to just buy more of their junk. . . What are these price gouging tactics that Bitmain is accused of? Bitmain is a company, and they will sell their product to the cost that the market will bear. It’s no different than if you go to eBay to sell an old GPU, you research what the going price is for your product, what price are they actually selling, and maybe drop a few dollars or cents to make your sale a little more attractive. They sell the first batch high and then slash the prices of subsequent batches, people are on to them now though you would hope /shurg i got 5 k worth of coupons from them for last years s9 and D3 debacle the A3 was the last straw for me never another toaster here. Seems they learned a bit with the z9 and E3 but unless they gave me coupons that refund my 100 percent losses one the d3s , which of course they won’t Im done Again... Bitmain is not stupid, they are a business, and they sell the first batch based on estimates of what this "money-printing-machine" will mine over a reasonable length of time. Plus, there is a scarcity factor of the first batch that will allow a premium price versus later batches. It's no different than when a brand new GPU series comes out, the scarcity of obtaining that GPU can cause the retail price to exceed MSRP, which is what the manufacturer thinks the card is worth on the open market. Thats a ridiculously stupid analogy GPUs that sell first batch like that are usually sold to enthusiast gamers who must have the fastest gaming system money can buy . this has nothing to do with roi , it has nothing to do with how much money you will make since profit is not the reason games buy the new flagship gpus. when it comes to bitmain selling the toasters yes the first batch prices are high based on potential predicted roi -the problem is What they don’t tell you is that they have 10 more batches plan at half the price which would dilute the current earnings and future earnings of the batch that you bought and first batch so it’s basically false advertising on top of that the pricing is total bullshit. why do you think it took so long for the l3s and s9s to become unprofitable, the old normal life span of an asic was two solid years of decent profits... assuming you got lucky enough to buy into the rare batch launches. with the D3 bitmain took up a scorced earth policy that has continued today, thier goal is to be the only game in town, since they mine with thier best hardware for years in advance anyways they don’t care about the current profit or life expectancy of the CURRENT gear they are selling you idiots. even know they are probably using thier next gen , eth,cn7 sha256 miners in house on open air boards , In a year or so when they go from making $50 a day per unit they will sale then to you and you will again lap up thier dregs lol |
|
|
|
So we all agree that BitTube is scam...
how u figure? I thought they have a working product |
|
|
|
.12 dollars a day? gtfo what the fuck are you mining ? air stop it with this FUD nonsense, its a least $.60 per gpu after power at the worst
If you had the time to see the link i posted then you would have seen that is worldwide average calculation for mining eth with a rx 580 doing 30mhs. If you pay less for your electricity then you are one of the lucky ones around. Also concerning costs, must always use the average worldwide price for things cause that is the mean value. Your generalizations are disengenous, half the gpus out there are nvidia, not everyone is mining eth some mine x16r , the zcash forks etc. Mining isn’t on size fits all , why do you persist on painting such a generic picture when we all know its not so easy as ‘ 580 makes .12 on average world wild average ’ are you serious? lol , thats your argument? mining at .35 cents power or even .28 has pretty much ALWAYS been unprofitable, nothing knew thre. and actually the world wide average is .15 not .24 Its one thing to post doom and gloom , its another to make shit up to support that sentiment. https://whattomine.com/coins/151-eth-ethash?utf8=✓&hr=30.0&p=130.0&fee=2.0&cost=0.12&hcost=280.0&commit=Calculatethese are more realistic values, 280 for the card , .15 for power and 130 watts undervolted. it comes to .47 cents a day far from the .12 |
|
|
|
Miners are not dumb we are pioneers. Crypto currencies and blockchain are a long term horizon. It's about patience.
But we must stop contributing to centralized networks. Mine on coinfoundry.org stay away from the big megalithic pools. Blockchain won't maintain its value if we let the networks become controlled by Bitmain or any megalithic hashing pool. Coinfoundry.org has a great track record but needs more hash to make ethereum viable.
lol nano pool waa small back in the day, they all get large eventually |
|
|
|
How to mine profitable? Never to use cloud mining =)
lol cloud mining is scam central, whose paying u? |
|
|
|
if you think that $0.12 per day per gpu which you pay $400 is profitable then by all means, buy millions of gpus and start mining hehe https://whattomine.com/coins/151-eth-ethash?utf8=%E2%9C%93&hr=30&p=150&fee=2&cost=0.2&hcost=400&commit=Calculate3500 days or 10 years to get your $400 back, numbers never lie. So, are you willing to wait 10 years of extremely hard working monitoring, cleaning, sleepless nights, to get your money back? also think about the other money that you will need to prepare the place for mining, most gpus dont last that long, most countries, warranty 1 year, fans will have to be changed every year, that is more $40, my point is your 3500 days will end up being 7000 days or 20 years hehe So as I always say, mining is only profitable if you will get your money back in 100 days or less. Is mining profitable, no and to add, gpu mining at moment is idiotic. ASIC mining is also not profitable at moment, you will get your money back in 300 days, to be profitable, remember, you must be able to get your money back in less than 100 days. .12 dollars a day? gtfo what the fuck are you mining ? air stop it with this FUD nonsense, its a least $.60 per gpu after power at the worst |
|
|
|
@ hakumoo
anywhere from 2 - 5 Mil. Remember I am a mechanicals guy and i GC'd (General Contracted) this myself. So that would drive the cost up exponentially. If you were some suit and tie New York VC guy wanting to do this without a clue what to do, as in you cant nail a piece of wood right. It would run you way more than that. I was born poor, grew up poor but we never went without. Food, clothes, house but that's it. I learned a ton from my dad about cars and repair, to laying black tar roofs. Summer vacation after school was going as a migrant worker to hoe cotton. I learned to be what I had to be givin the situation, that's why I could do all this stuff. I still know when to call in the big guns though when I am over my head. As in this giant electrical, you get one shot at that.
@ areyouathief
canarm is mfg. they make industrial stuff 15 HP 480V motors and 6ft x 6ft base.
lol I was spot on, Im good with numbers infrastructure costs that way , nice budget to work with sweet project. I have access to 150killo watts myself and that ran me 50k to get it all set up Your scale is mindblowing |
|
|
|
Mining is profitable in 1 or 2 ways or both.
1) Cheap power. If you got cheap power like 5 cents per KWH then go ahead and start mining.
2) You got GPUs you aren't using and paid off. Go ahead and start mining if you got power less than 10 cents per KWH.
If you got neither of these things then, yes you can make money but you are better off investing this money into the coins itself like BTC, ETH, XMR, etc. It will save you the hassle.
Bingo , even if you have money to buy gpus , its best to wait and see what the 11x series does to current gpu prices. Resellers are holding mad inventory, too greedy to drop prices why make it easy for them buy nothing and squeeze out lower prices thats comming bro |
|
|
|
To make this clear I don't hate "ASIC MINING" . . simply put all of the current producers are trash -- just analyze Bitmains price gouging tactics, and then they become "good guy bitmain" after their coupon airdrop to just buy more of their junk. . . What are these price gouging tactics that Bitmain is accused of? Bitmain is a company, and they will sell their product to the cost that the market will bear. It’s no different than if you go to eBay to sell an old GPU, you research what the going price is for your product, what price are they actually selling, and maybe drop a few dollars or cents to make your sale a little more attractive. They sell the first batch high and then slash the prices of subsequent batches, people are on to them now though you would hope /shurg i got 5 k worth of coupons from them for last years s9 and D3 debacle the A3 was the last straw for me never another toaster here. Seems they learned a bit with the z9 and E3 but unless they gave me coupons that refund my 100 percent losses one the d3s , which of course they won’t Im done |
|
|
|
My thought is this: 2-3 years ago I was making 3 bucks a unit now we are making 5-7$ and people bitch. Is it harder hell yes, is it less profitable not really. Especially if you paid for all your stuff already The people that jumped on last year and were making 20-45$ a day but paid exorbitant prices are crying but all the old timers have seen it before. We knew, or should of known, we should be saving that $ because skinny times always come. The ASIC revolution is stupid but what you gonna do. It all boils down to this. If I can put one dollar in a vending machine and it pops out 2 dollars, HELL YES I will sit there all day!  Past performance is not an indicator of future results. The landscape has change. Your numbers are all out of wack. I'm making negative each day after electric cost avg of 28 cents. Saying we make $5-7 a unit is false. Your vending machine analogy is stupid b/c the reality is that you gota spend $2000 for a vending machine that will only pump out $1 dollar a day and will be outdated in 2 years. That means you lose money . and and difficulty rises with time so therefore you get rekt even more. Miners are dumb @cjmapope posts like the above is actually what you were talking about we see the same thing in crypto as has bBeing in Stocks for the last 5060 years fired FUD people think if they lineup about crypto and the benefits and mining and in general how much people can make it will scare people away not understanding that there’s millions of people out there people do their own research if they want to mine they will mine lol. the sad thing these fudsters fail to get is fellow miners gpu and even small scale farms are not the threat lool, even if every onw who had a gpu mined , its minscule hash rate and competition next to the asics. We see what happend to the monero and etn hashrate when asics were forked out. basically got so low on etn they had to fork back to get enough validators. Of course this did nothing to affect the fpga hash which is why profits on xmr are still low. |
|
|
|
How come this is profitable even after months of Monero's fork?
etn forked back, it still only makes $150 per month after power roi is like a year, better than gpus but zero resale * edit* spoke too soon, more like $4.95 a day now to $10 so 1.6 year roi I'm doing about 10.36 a day overclocked @ 475. electric costs no more than $2.00 a day here in the bay area for the 450 watt X3. Your electric seems a bit high. I dont own an x3 just using the power values from ascminervalue , they use .10 cents that’s standard |
|
|
|
Thanks Guys appreciate it! Nah we are not rich but I did not have debt therefore I could take a task/risk like this.
Wouldn't the 5k GPUs alone, not to mention the building and infrastructure, run you close to a mil? thats far more than a mill bro probably looking at 5 mill investment |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
