There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that. Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result... Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times. It is a non-issue. There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back. you missed the whole point, the motherboard being hooked up properly with those pins tells give the PSU a reference as to what to do and that its ready to shut things down instead of POP powers gone. Regardless of the 2 pins that are shorted, the other voltages drain into the motherboard after it's turned off. Might be why some models don't have bleed off resistors on filter caps - cost-cutting designers arguing that the voltages will bleed off into the motherboard while at the same time giving a slight efficiency increase to the power supply stats compared to the same supply having capacitor bleed off resistors. |
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Order #12x Miner Saturn Date of Order 3/6/2013 Paid 9/7/2013 Location Athens/Greece Status change In progress a few hours a go According to KnCMiner, they work full time all weekend to catch 15th of October!!!  i see Saturns moving forward but Junipers are not goig anywhere. what happed to the sacred queue? So so disappoint My Merc is in progress this morning. |
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There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that. Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result... Yeah I have turned PC off GPU rigs at the switch a couple thousand times. It is a non-issue. There is a reason open frame GPU miners used power supplies with a physical power switch on back. you missed the whole point, the motherboard being hooked up properly with those pins tells give the PSU a reference as to what to do and that its ready to shut things down instead of POP powers gone. Regardless of the 2 pins that are shorted, the other voltages drain into the motherboard after it's turned off. |
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And here is a tip for everyone. You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work? Do you know what those are used for?
When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely. That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.
If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home. And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that. If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...
Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out. There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that. Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...
+1 I, for one, would like to see that shown experimentally. I personally believe there is no fault in pulling the plug. More accurately, I believe there is no fault in pulling the plug with the miner attached to the power supply. Still, that doesn't have a bearing on potential buildup on the power supply lines after disconnecting from the miner, plugged in with switch off or unplugged from the wall with power supply switch on. The possible problem would be the power supply outputs looking at a open given that the leads would be unplugged from the miner. The longer unplugged the higher the potential potential buildup. KnC does not know the design of every model of every power supply manufactured. If a power supply had been powered on for hours or days the potential for voltage potential buildup on the filter capacitors while leads are disconnected may very well exist in some miners. |
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And here is a tip for everyone. You know those two pins you jump to make the PSU work? Do you know what those are used for?
When you press the OFF switch your motherboard opens those two pins, telling the PSU to power everything down safely. That is the only correct way to shut a system down - pull the jumper, then power off the PSU.
If you just flip the PSU switch off, you leave a "whole lot of amerage" suddenly looking for the quickest way to get home. And electrons aren't fussy, if they can find a shorter path across a component instead of thru it, they'll use that. If there are unseen micro droplets of solder on the solder mask that present a shorter path, they'll use that path, carbonizing the solder mask and making it an even BETTER shortcut - resulting in nasty smelling smoke and burned solder mask...
Just flipping the PSU switch to off might not break anything the first time or even 100th time you do it, but eventually you'll pay the price, and the magic smoke gets out. There's a very valid reason why you don't just turn off your computer by yanking the plug out of the wall socket - and flipping the PSU switch is the equivalent of doing that. Do that to your desktop computer a few times and see how well it runs as a result...
+1 I, for one, would like to see that shown experimentally. I personally believe there is no fault in pulling the plug. |
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Or if one adds 12vdc fans to the exhaust of the box, powering with 12v out of the 4 pin molex, even unplugging everything then reassembling, plugging in the external 12vdc fans FIRST would kill any high voltage on that 12 volt rail. This might not be much help if the power supply has multiple 12 volt rails in which case you'd have to make sure each rail had a fan on before getting attached to the miner.
or just pick up a $3 PSU tester with a screen instead of jumping the pins and let it drain the rails Yes, but lets get this exploding capacitor problem ended so they can start shipping again. Does the board have MOVs on the 12v rail? Not sure how effective at protecting tantalum given the tantalum sensitivity to high voltage and there's the power loss in the MOVs given that you'd want them conducting before the tantalum(s) fry and the closer the MOVs knee to the rail voltage the higher the leakage. Would that be significant overall? Probably not. They'd need add the MOV to the board. If it's multi-layver they can't just drill a pair of holes willy-nilly but careful placement of holes drilled, copper surface of rails exposed with scraping, MOV soldered to 12v and ground is a lot of work. Perhaps a connector, internal, with the MOV installed; unplug power ribbon, insert connector, plug power ribbon(s) into added connector might satisfy insurance people and protect the board. An exploded capacitor isn't a fire tho it may give off gas that smells like smoke. And if you use any of my suggestions and your miner doesn't get an exploded cap, you can send tips to: 18XUsmKnuPmGdNaPrtpwSr11iAXFUdFUys |
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Or if one adds 12vdc fans to the exhaust of the box, powering with 12v out of the 4 pin molex, even unplugging everything then reassembling, plugging in the external 12vdc fans FIRST would kill any high voltage on that 12 volt rail. This might not be much help if the power supply has multiple 12 volt rails in which case you'd have to make sure each rail had a fan on before getting attached to the miner.
or just pick up a $3 PSU tester with a screen instead of jumping the pins and let it drain the rails Yes, but lets get this exploding capacitor problem ended so they can start shipping again. Does the board have MOVs on the 12v rail? Not sure how effective at protecting tantalum given the tantalum sensitivity to high voltage and there's the power loss in the MOVs given that you'd want them conducting before the tantalum(s) fry and the closer the MOVs knee to the rail voltage the higher the leakage. Would that be significant overall? Probably not. They'd need add the MOV to the board. If it's multi-layver they can't just drill a pair of holes willy-nilly but careful placement of holes drilled, copper surface of rails exposed with scraping, MOV soldered to 12v and ground is a lot of work. Perhaps a connector, internal, with the MOV installed; unplug power ribbon, insert connector, plug power ribbon(s) into added connector might satisfy insurance people and protect the board. An exploded capacitor isn't a fire tho it may give off gas that smells like smoke. |
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Or if one adds 12vdc fans to the exhaust of the box, powering with 12v out of the 4 pin molex, even unplugging everything then reassembling, plugging in the external 12vdc fans FIRST would kill any high voltage on that 12 volt rail. This might not be much help if the power supply has multiple 12 volt rails in which case you'd have to make sure each rail had a fan on before getting attached to the miner.
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Could the blown capacitors have been the result of users experimenting, trying to get higher hashrates by unplugging the power supply live from the miner then inserting the live plug? They might not tell if they did.
Probably multiple workers in hosting. If due to ease of access a worker(s) did the same and with the same result, could they have kept it secret so as not to look like an idiot(s) before the other workers?
Like, those power supplies are designed to go into a computer, closed. One doesn't have access to the plugs and even then the motherboard stays plugged in. Or here's another consideration. You can win a bet by showing how a capacitor has voltage memory, charge a cap, short it's contacts and bet that there is still voltage, take the short away, wait a few seconds, measure voltage. User shuts off the power supply, UNPLUGS the miner, say to take the top off - leaving the supply unplugged. Remember, in its proper application, the motherboard stays plugged in. So, the supply is unplugged and no current flow. The voltage memory of the caps brings back a potential but no current flow there is no effective voltage control. The voltage might get very high. Plug the connector in and BAM. We use to induce magnetic fields into slugs by building up charge in capacitors then discharging the caps thru coils around the slugs that then became permanent magnets. That use to be one hell of a ZAP. Users are adding fans. Why not go with 12vdc fans that accept the 4 pin connector. Put in a splitter before the 4 pin molex in. Drive 12vdc fans from that external splitter. When unplugging the miner leave the fans plugged in draining any potential on the 12v line in the power supply. Okay, any users who have had the blown caps: The miner had been running hours or days then shut down. Was the power supply disconnected from the miner? Did the miner capacitors explode when the plug was reinserted even tho the supply was switched off? Having run previously for hours or days, the capacity for voltage memory of filter capacitors in the power supply would have been well established. |
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Could the blown capacitors have been the result of users experimenting, trying to get higher hashrates by unplugging the power supply live from the miner then inserting the live plug? They might not tell if they did.
Probably multiple workers in hosting. If due to ease of access a worker(s) did the same and with the same result, could they have kept it secret so as not to look like an idiot(s) before the other workers?
Like, those power supplies are designed to go into a computer, closed. One doesn't have access to the plugs and even then the motherboard stays plugged in. Or here's another consideration. You can win a bet by showing how a capacitor has voltage memory, charge a cap, short it's contacts and bet that there is still voltage, take the short away, wait a few seconds, measure voltage. User shuts off the power supply, UNPLUGS the miner, say to take the top off - leaving the supply unplugged. Remember, in its proper application, the motherboard stays plugged in. So, the supply is unplugged and no current flow. The voltage memory of the caps brings back a potential but no current flow there is no effective voltage control. The voltage might get very high. Plug the connector in and BAM. We use to induce magnetic fields into slugs by building up charge in capacitors then discharging the caps thru coils around the slugs that then became permanent magnets. That use to be one hell of a ZAP. Users are adding fans. Why not go with 12vdc fans that accept the 4 pin connector. Put in a splitter before the 4 pin molex in. Drive 12vdc fans from that external splitter. When unplugging the miner leave the fans plugged in draining any potential on the 12v line in the power supply. |
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In line with the general feeling in the topic towards KNC*  *No hard feelings guys, just trying to lighten up the mood a little bit  500 MH/s lolololol!! aka the KNC bork bork bork eruptor! LOL! Who created that deserves a reward. PS:  I like this company. Please don't put "Mission Accomplished!" under the photo. |
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Could the blown capacitors have been the result of users experimenting, trying to get higher hashrates by unplugging the power supply live from the miner then inserting the live plug? They might not tell if they did.
Probably multiple workers in hosting. If due to ease of access a worker(s) did the same and with the same result, could they have kept it secret so as not to look like an idiot(s) before the other workers?
Like, those power supplies are designed to go into a computer, closed. One doesn't have access to the plugs and even then the motherboard stays plugged in. Or here's another consideration. You can win a bet by showing how a capacitor has voltage memory, charge a cap, short it's contacts and bet that there is still voltage, take the short away, wait a few seconds, measure voltage. User shuts off the power supply, UNPLUGS the miner, say to take the top off - leaving the supply unplugged. Remember, in its proper application, the motherboard stays plugged in. So, the supply is unplugged and no current flow. The voltage memory of the caps brings back a potential but no current flow there is no effective voltage control. The voltage might get very high. Plug the connector in and BAM. We use to induce magnetic fields into slugs by building up charge in capacitors then discharging the caps thru coils around the slugs that then became permanent magnets. That use to be one hell of a ZAP. |
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Could the blown capacitors have been the result of users experimenting, trying to get higher hashrates by unplugging the power supply live from the miner then inserting the live plug? They might not tell if they did.
Probably multiple workers in hosting. If due to ease of access a worker(s) did the same and with the same result, could they have kept it secret so as not to look like an idiot(s) before the other workers?
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Was this to be a thread of actual shipping or of orders awaiting eventual production and shipping?  Number of orders ahead of me I find obvious. Most recent actual shipped and received is useful information. |
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Wonder what date the first Mercury will ship.  What was the 1st date they were available? That's why they may not be shipping now. Understood. I wonder none the less. Interestingly, there was apparently a 28xx order, date 28 June, not shipped so perhaps picked up, French, listed on the thread KNC list of orders October delivery, a Saturn. I bought my Mercury on July 3 and I think they had been available a few days already at that time so Mercurys might start shipping soon! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=249065.260he says received = no, or non since he is French. No idea where KnC is on their shipping queue. It's really sad how uncommunicative they are and how we have to beg each other for information to figure out what the hell is going on. Sad thing is I had to explain to my wife how this "investment" is not going to work out. At least she was cool about it. I saw the potential for misinterpretation of his original post which I had arrived at after seeing its congrats reply. Thought it could go either way so took it as saying reception. So, he was just posting that his order was placed. I understand. I still wonder when the first Merc will ship. I've a vested interest. |
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Wonder what date the first Mercury will ship. What was the 1st date they were available? That's why they may not be shipping now. Understood. I wonder none the less. Interestingly, there was apparently a 28xx order, date 28 June, not shipped so perhaps picked up, French, listed on the thread KNC list of orders October delivery, a Saturn. I bought my Mercury on July 3 and I think they had been available a few days already at that time so Mercurys might start shipping soon! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=249065.260 |
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 Its crashing like this about every ten minutes now, and nothing on the knc interface page is responding, everything i do has to be ssl....? Did you check the directionality of the fans? Blowing into the heatsinks and not out? Some mismounting of the fans in that regard. |
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Wonder what date the first Mercury will ship. What was the 1st date they were available? That's why they may not be shipping now. Understood. I wonder none the less. |
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Wonder what date the first Mercury will ship. |
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Holy shit! There's actually a joke that goes along with that, which appears a little insenstive now. And as a result a miner was actually packed in that box by mistake. I actually drew that on there myself, but I swear that left with UPS in mint condition;  Well the miner that arrive inside said box is doing just fine...  And no wonder the box was so screwed up - 'Orama personally packed it. Heh. By mistake? You mean I got an extra special one? Hey - I got the magic box - care to tell me the insensitive joke? You're welcome to PM it to me...  -R- gigahash envy |
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