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Author Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM  (Read 383879 times)
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May 31, 2013, 04:48:10 PM
 #1821

Why doesn't someone file A Federal Law Suit against these assholes? You can't delay a pre-order indefinitely that is outright Fraud! Especially if your doing it with the knowledge that you don't have a ready product and will never have one. It seems obvious BFL is a Fraud and that whoever got these Butterflylab Miners are in on the scam. I doubt one working unit even exists. It's easy to post pictures or even a video of a model that seems to be running.

Without a government backed investigation or one conducted by a reputable private agency there is no way to validate that even 1 functioning model has been delivered. I imagine BF labs has a lot of paid Shills and co-conspirators. Whoever bought into the scam is naïve as they are Greedy and BF labs took advantage of that Greed and naivete to the tune of Millions.

If it seems to good to be true it is too good to be true. If BFLabs could make these miners they'd be a Fortune 500 company. All they can make apparent is a very elaborate scam and a convincing website to reel in the gullible and the Greedy.

I thought about buying a BFL miner when I first got into bitcoin a few months ago but after doing my research It was obvious to me it was a scam.

These guys are Criminals and someone who fell for this scam should file a Federal Lawsuit on them. Why hasn't anyone done this yet? I have a feeling the guys who run BFL are all going to end up in Federal Prison sooner or later, you don't rip people off for Millions with impunity.

This is a big class action case and you might get a hungry attorney to do it on contingency.

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May 31, 2013, 04:54:18 PM
 #1822

BFL Labs is proof that P.T. Barnum was right when he said "there's a sucker born every minute".

I'm surprised people still buy pre-orders of these things on ebay how stupid can you get?
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May 31, 2013, 05:53:43 PM
 #1823

lol BFL Josh looks like a sheister
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May 31, 2013, 06:01:11 PM
 #1824

Bfl problems have been going on for ages now.

Message me if you have any problems
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May 31, 2013, 08:25:27 PM
 #1825

By the end of August 75% plus will have their orders.

You heard it here first...

No. We heard it there first: http://www.butterflylabs.com/bitforce-sc-release-notes/
(yes, this page is still online!!!)

"... The SC product line has been under development for quite some time and is not the result of an expedited development process.  Although there are always issues during development, our team is highly experienced in exactly this field and we're currently ahead of our original timeline.  Honest Abe, we're scheduling shipments for October of 2012. ..."

Incredible that's still posted. The wording even way back then was weaselesque. Who save a lawyer would say "we're scheduling shipments"? Roll Eyes

Just figured I would quote that page before they took it down lol.

Quote
The BitForce SC product line is the giant final step in the progression of SHA256 verification technology.  The implications for our customers are significant and with this comes a measure of responsibility that we've worked hard to respectfully fold into our plans. Along with encouragement, there has been quite a lot of worry about these implications.  We hope clarifying our position and what you can expect from BF Labs Inc. on these points may be helpful to our customers as they decide how to proceed with their SHA256 efforts.   What's your trade in policy? In recognition of the burden such an increase in hashing power puts on owners of our equipment, we've instituted a policy designed to preserve the value of your investment through this technology change.  Our objective is to make sure you can recover your investment whether you wish to continue mining or not. To achieve this goal, we will accept earlier generation units in trade at full purchase price towards the purchase of their new ASIC based counterparts.
What's a typical trade in example?  A customer can trade in his 832 MH/s Single and get $599 credit towards the purchase of a $1,299 SC Single.  The end cost to upgrade to 60 GH/s would be $699.
Do I have to ship my trade in when I order the SC version?  You may keep your current single (or Mini Rig) up to the date your SC based product is ready.  We'll notify you at that time and wait for your trade in to arrive before releasing your unit.
Can I trade in two old generation singles for one SC version?  No.  You can only use trade in credit to pay for up to 50% of the cost of the new gear.  (otherwise, we'd go out of business pretty quickly).
I don't want to mine anymore, what do I do with my Singles?  The value of an old Single on the secondary market should continue to hover close to it's $599 purchase price minus shipping and any convenience costs of exchange with whoever wants to buy it in preparation to purchase an SC based product.  When we receive it towards the purchase of an SC, it will be accepted at it's full $599 value.  This ensures that you can get out of your investment with no losses.
How are Mini Rigs traded in?  Mini Rigs are traded in the same way as Singles.  Up to 50% of the purchase price of new SC gear can be paid for with trade in credit from an older generation Mini Rig or many older generation Singles.
How long will you continue to accept trade ins?  Our trade in offer expires March 1, 2013.
Can I trade in my Singles even though I didn't buy them from you?  Yes, we will honor trade in units whether you purchased them directly from us or from a third party.
 
Will you limit supply to would be 51% attackers? We absolutely will not knowingly sell hardware to a client if we feel they pose a threat to any network. Why are you selling so much performance for so little? We feel cheap & powerful hashing gear is more valuable to our customers and the growth of the network.  For example, our USB coffee warmer product (the 'Jalapeno') was designed for maximum gift-ability in time for the holiday season.   It might find a role as a fun starter kit for would be network participants while at the same time increasing network d-centralization.  In sum, cheaper & easier is better and we'll continue to push this envelope as company policy. What will happen to my investment if ASIC competition arrives? It's our belief that ASIC level competition is inevitable.  In expectation of this, we've kept our prices low and we'll maintain them at stable rates. There's no such thing as a monopoly in a free market.  If you're greedy, someone can come along and fix the situation.  With this in mind, our products are priced very well relative to the investments involved and this leaves little room for profit motivated competitors.  This may very well induce a welcome phase of price stability for SHA256 operators.  In the end, we believe success all comes down to aggressive investment in product improvement and a generous attitude towards supporting the customers we serve.  Price stability is a part of the equation. However, in the event of a price war, it's fair to say that the capability of the product may exceed the figures published and our price / performance advantage will adjust as needed to remain the top choice.  With the financial backing we have, we're able to continue development and prepare for the future mission to support SHA256, no matter how the market turns.  Please know that in doing this, we pledge to continue to respect the value of the investment our customers have made. In the end, competition ultimately benefits overall network security so everyone wins. Why don't you guys mine? This is a popular question.  The answer is pretty simple.  Hardware is the focus of our passion.  We're hardware designers. So will the BitForce SC product line REALLY come out in October? This is a fair question.  Let's review our track record.  If you're not aware, our initial product, the BitForce Single had a slow delivery cycle.  This was initially due to a last minute design change before initial product release.  When we did release it, we weren't quite prepared for the explosive success we had.  After several rounds of scaling, single delivery is in sufficient volume to catch up quickly. The Mini Rig product release has followed it's development and release timeline pretty well.  Initial deliveries aren't far from estimates and the speed of production is on pace to ensure most customers will get their Mini Rigs ahead of schedule. The SC product line has been under development for quite some time and is not the result of an expedited development process.  Although there are always issues during development, our team is highly experienced in exactly this field and we're currently ahead of our original timeline.  Honest Abe, we're scheduling shipments for October of 2012. Will it REALLY be as fast as you say? YES.  It's really that fast. Let's review our track record once again.  Our most recent release was the Mini Rig.  It's performance exceeded spec by more than 1 GH/s in speed while consuming 100W less in power draw.
Promised:    25.2 GH/s     1,250W
Delivered:     26.4 GH/s     1,141W
Our one blemish in spec estimate was with our original product.  The Single was announced at 1.05 GH/s @ 20W.  However, we released it at 832 MH/s @ 80W.  This was part of our introductory learning curve specific to this network hash application which is really quite extraordinary and unlike simple processor cryptography which is our background.  In the end, we missed our speed spec by 20% and power by a factor of 4.  In fairness, we offered refunds and lowered our prices from $699 to $599 to compensate.  The product was a hit and remains our best seller to date. In short, we have the experience and have shipped the most product in the industry.  You can count on the SC.  It's real and it's coming to a network near you.

And there is the blatant LIE BFL perpetrated to get suckers to buy into their vapor ware pre-order scam.

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May 31, 2013, 08:36:19 PM
 #1826

lol BFL Josh looks like a sheister

I lol'd at this; is true.  If I saw the picture of the avalon guys vs picture of josh, I would have made a good decision with how I voted with my wallet.
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May 31, 2013, 09:26:34 PM
 #1827

Also I have made ​​an order from butterflylabs to a mining of 5gh/s, executed early May. I sent an email to order cancellation, no answer.
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May 31, 2013, 10:08:34 PM
 #1828


Just figured I would quote that page before they took it down lol.

Quote
... YES.  It's really that fast. Let's review our track record once again.  Our most recent release was the Mini Rig.  It's performance exceeded spec by more than 1 GH/s in speed while consuming 100W less in power draw.
Promised:    25.2 GH/s     1,250W
Delivered:     26.4 GH/s     1,141W
Our one blemish in spec estimate was with our original product.


Incredible indeed! They fucked up their old product as bad as they fucked up their new product (ASICS) - yet they still dare to twist numbers so that it looks as if they had over delivered.

Fact is: They promised 1GH/s per 1 Watt. But their units ended up consuming 4-5 times more power than originally predicted/promised.

Another quote from this page: "Although there are always issues during development, our team is highly experienced in exactly this field and we're currently ahead of our original timeline."

Highly experienced? I'd say: Total fail! I've never seen so much incompetence at one place! BFL outsourced everything. From ASIC design to chip manufacturing. In which area exactly are you "highly experienced"? Only in the area of scamming people of their hard earned money!

"Ahead of our original timeline"? You fuckers promised to deliver in October 2012. Now it's June 2013 and 99,99% of us are still waiting for the products that we paid for fully upfront almost a year ago!
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May 31, 2013, 11:07:15 PM
 #1829

I hope it's not a scam.
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June 01, 2013, 01:03:39 AM
 #1830


Just figured I would quote that page before they took it down lol.

Quote
... YES.  It's really that fast. Let's review our track record once again.  Our most recent release was the Mini Rig.  It's performance exceeded spec by more than 1 GH/s in speed while consuming 100W less in power draw.
Promised:    25.2 GH/s     1,250W
Delivered:     26.4 GH/s     1,141W
Our one blemish in spec estimate was with our original product.


Incredible indeed! They fucked up their old product as bad as they fucked up their new product (ASICS) - yet they still dare to twist numbers so that it looks as if they had over delivered.

Fact is: They promised 1GH/s per 1 Watt. But their units ended up consuming 4-5 times more power than originally predicted/promised.

Another quote from this page: "Although there are always issues during development, our team is highly experienced in exactly this field and we're currently ahead of our original timeline."

Highly experienced? I'd say: Total fail! I've never seen so much incompetence at one place! BFL outsourced everything. From ASIC design to chip manufacturing. In which area exactly are you "highly experienced"? Only in the area of scamming people of their hard earned money!

"Ahead of our original timeline"? You fuckers promised to deliver in October 2012. Now it's June 2013 and 99,99% of us are still waiting for the products that we paid for fully upfront almost a year ago!


Hence any claims that BFL/Inaba ever lied are false.

Inaba claims no lies were perpetrated by BFL...the evidence is on their forum and this forum in the form of their claims of having experienced people at BFL to get this product out the door and in working specs.

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June 01, 2013, 01:23:36 AM
 #1831

I was going to buy one... until I came to this forum and I heard about all of the bad stuff happening. Good thing I always research before a big purchase.  Undecided
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June 01, 2013, 02:42:10 AM
 #1832

And what about the other ASIC companies like avalon?
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June 01, 2013, 02:44:22 AM
 #1833

Has anyone ever asked for a refund? Have you received it if you did? If not, it's a scam.

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June 01, 2013, 03:15:01 AM
 #1834

A number of people have asked for refund and gotten them.
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June 01, 2013, 03:20:58 AM
 #1835

check out bfl.ptz.ro, they've shipped a few days of jallys which have been received as delivered

also a good source of info is search "BFL NEWS" and find the unofficial twitter Smiley
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June 01, 2013, 04:04:24 AM
 #1836

A number of people have asked for refund and gotten them.

Then everyone bitching should just ask for a refund or stop bitching.

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June 01, 2013, 04:44:54 AM
 #1837

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=221865.msg2335644#msg2335644


Information Solicitation For Potential Butterfly Labs Inc. Lawsuit

After reading this post in its entirety, please feel free to repost this solicitation for information anywhere you deem useful.  In doing so, please follow the Terms and Conditions of any forum you choose to engage.
   
Date: May 31, 2013

I have been asked by a partner at my law firm to do research regarding Butterfly Labs, Inc., a Wyoming corporation (“BFL”) sale of “The Bitforce line of ASIC Super Computer bitcoin miners” (“Bitforce Computers”).  This solicitation regards all configurations of the Bitforce Computers.  This solicitation includes information pertaining to all BFL officers, directors, employees, authorized representatives, subsidiaries, affiliates, assigns and any other party involved in creating, producing, delivering or modifying the Bitforce Computers.   We are interested in information relating to BFL Customers who have received nonconforming Bitforce Computers; BFL Customers that are waiting for Bitforce Computers; and Bitforce Customers who have requested refunds, whether received or not.  Each circumstance is being individually considered for potential claims. 

In addition, my firm is interested in any information pertaining to the following individuals’ (or associated addresses) involvement in the sale, representation, communications and/or BFL customer service:

Josh R. Zerlan
18400 Juniper Ter., Gardner, KS 66030 ‎

Chris A. Vleisides
9817 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64114; (or)
2507 Jefferson St., Kansas City, MO 64108;

Chris T. Vleisides
9817 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64114; (or)
2507 Jefferson St., Kansas City, MO 64108;

Connie-Ann Vleisides
9817 Walnut St., Kansas City, MO 64114;
 
Gregory W. Vleisides, Esq.
Missouri Bar Number: 25557
Date Admitted: 5/5/1977
1801 NW Platte Rd., Suite
Kansas City, MO 64105

Sonny Chris Vleisides

Nasser Ghoseiri

**Disclaimer: The listing of these names is not an accusation of wrongdoing, but merely part of an investigation.**

Specifically, attorneys at my firm are contemplating claims relating to the following:

1.   Pre-order sales of the Bitforce Computers line;
    a.   Any and all documentation relating to the sale of Bitforce Computers;

2.   BFL’s failure to delivery Bitforce Computers within stated timeframes (e.g. sales receipts, emails or posting relating to shipping dates, etc.);
    a.   Any and all information pertaining to BFL changing time frames and disclaimers over time.  It is important to capture information regarding BFL’s changing terms, disclaimers, and representations over time;
   
    b.   Any information relating to economic AND/OR consequential losses due to BFL failure to deliver. 

3.   BFL’s failure to deliver Bitforce Computers conforming to original specifications (e.g. power consumption, size, etc.);

4.   Any and all documents and email communications pertaining to BFL’s failure to promptly refund customer(s);

5.   Information and evidence relating to BFL’s “UPGRADE/TRADE IN Option.”

    a.   When BFL took delivery of your FPGA;

    b.   Any and all evidence establishing the use of your device subsequent to your sending it to BFL;

    c.   Where possible, calculations relating to lost revenues due to your participation in BFL’s Upgrade Option;

6.   Any information pertaining to BFL attempts to cover-up customer dissatisfaction through means such as erasing forum postings;

7.   Any information pertaining to BFL attempts to offer complaining customers accords or satisfaction (e.g. moving them ahead of other customers); and

8.   Any information relating to BFL delivery of Bitforce Computers to individuals not already in their sales queue for promotional purposes and/or testing (e.g. Instances where BFL sent reporters, blogger, testers or favored customers Bitforce Computers before those who had a prior pre-sale order).

NOTE: Please provide screen captures of any information posted on forums.   Merely linking to posting will not be as useful and could potentially allow for the deletion or destruction of potential evidence.       

CONTACT:  For the sake of efficiency we are not entertaining phone conversation pertaining to this matter at the moment.  Please forward all documents, email, contact information and materials relating to BFLinformation@gmail.com.  I additionally invite any BFL, Inc., representatives to contact me at the aforementioned email address to discuss a settlement of potential claims. 

**DISCLAIMER:  The information contained in this post is not intended to be nor does it constitute legal advice.  The information does not necessarily reflect the most current legal developments.  You should not act or refrain from acting based upon information discussed herein.  The information you provide does not create an attorney-client relationship.  Information provided to us by you will not necessarily be treated as privileged or confidential as it will be freely used in our investigation in contemplation of potential litigation.**   

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inaba
Butterfly Labs shipped the Jalapeno 10 months after first orders. They're still backlogged 7 months. If you're thinking of buying a BFL Monarch, think again.
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June 01, 2013, 04:56:52 AM
 #1838

Oh.......
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June 01, 2013, 05:26:01 AM
 #1839

...

You think a law firm would use a fucking gmail account? LOL.
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June 01, 2013, 05:30:11 AM
 #1840

you can never know.
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