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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 508239 times)
Biomech
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November 17, 2015, 05:34:34 PM
 #3061

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good on you if you are successful trading but that one bolded bit it quite wrong I'm afraid  Undecided

Savings have value and it doesn't make much sense to propose that one starts speculating with all of his available wealth.

I qualified it Cheesy But even savings in a bank is actually invested, you're just not the one doing it. Interest is paid to you out of profits from the interest they charge to lend the money that you hold, essentially a partnership. Except in the banking world, they hold all the cards.

Money just sitting in a vault, as I said, is not likely doing you any good. A smallish portion, for emergencies and future speculation, sure, but overall the purpose of money is trade, and that's how you increase your stash.

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
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brg444
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November 17, 2015, 05:37:15 PM
 #3062


I qualified it Cheesy But even savings in a bank is actually invested, you're just not the one dong it. Interest is paid to you out of profits from the interest they charge to lend the money that you hold, essentially a partnership. Except in the banking world, they hold all the cards.

Money just sitting in a vault, as I said, is not likely doing you any good. A smallish portion, for emergencies and future speculation, sure, but overall the purpose of money is trade, and that's how you increase your stash.

Think of the people who sold a large part of their stash during the early 2013 run-up thinking they had made a killing seeing as they bought their coins in low double digit.... I'm guessing some of them would love to have these coins back.

I understand where you're coming from but the "purpose of money is trade" notion is simply broken economics.

http://blog.oleganza.com/post/43378777734/on-circulation-of-money

Quote
Economists err if they believe something is wrong when money is not in constant, active “circulation.” Money is only useful for exchange value, true, but it is not only useful at the actual moment of exchange. This truth has been often overlooked. Money is just as useful when lying “idle” in somebody’s cash balance, even in a miser’s “hoard.” (At what point does a man’s cash balance become a faintly disreputable “hoard,” or the prudent man a miser? It is impossible to fix any definite criterion: generally, the charge of “hoarding” means that A is keeping more cash than B thinks is appropriate for A.) For that money is being held now in wait for possible future exchange—it supplies to its owner, right now, the usefulness of permitting exchanges at any time—present or future—the owner might desire.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
Denker
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November 17, 2015, 06:11:19 PM
 #3063

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.

richardsNY
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November 17, 2015, 06:22:32 PM
 #3064

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.

As far as trading goes, as long as you use your brain instead of your emotions, you'll be fine. Buying low and selling high doesn't require you to have skills.

Biomech
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November 17, 2015, 06:32:44 PM
 #3065


I qualified it Cheesy But even savings in a bank is actually invested, you're just not the one dong it. Interest is paid to you out of profits from the interest they charge to lend the money that you hold, essentially a partnership. Except in the banking world, they hold all the cards.

Money just sitting in a vault, as I said, is not likely doing you any good. A smallish portion, for emergencies and future speculation, sure, but overall the purpose of money is trade, and that's how you increase your stash.

Think of the people who sold a large part of their stash during the early 2013 run-up thinking they had made a killing seeing as they bought their coins in low double digit.... I'm guessing some of them would love to have these coins back.

I understand where you're coming from but the "purpose of money is trade" notion is simply broken economics.

http://blog.oleganza.com/post/43378777734/on-circulation-of-money

Quote
Economists err if they believe something is wrong when money is not in constant, active “circulation.” Money is only useful for exchange value, true, but it is not only useful at the actual moment of exchange. This truth has been often overlooked. Money is just as useful when lying “idle” in somebody’s cash balance, even in a miser’s “hoard.” (At what point does a man’s cash balance become a faintly disreputable “hoard,” or the prudent man a miser? It is impossible to fix any definite criterion: generally, the charge of “hoarding” means that A is keeping more cash than B thinks is appropriate for A.) For that money is being held now in wait for possible future exchange—it supplies to its owner, right now, the usefulness of permitting exchanges at any time—present or future—the owner might desire.


You make a good point. It has value TO the person letting it lie idle, even if just for the pleasure of it. My point, however, is that if the goal is to become wealthy, then simply holding it is unlikely to be a solid strategy. Holding a portion, and taking profit often and using the profit to generate more profit, that's the strategy I'm advocating. I would suppose that if you are already wealthy, the proportion you hold would likely increase vs. the portion you invest. I guess I'm getting at the idea that standing still is rarely useful to life or wealth.

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
Biomech
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November 17, 2015, 06:35:52 PM
 #3066

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.

It took a long time to get decent at it. I'm far from good at it, but I do make a living. Along the way, I lost quite a bit to that learning curve Cheesy Primarily, the skill you need most is a good head. If you can be patient and vigilant at the same time (the former is very hard for me), you'll make money. Faking patience has been of great value to me. And of course, watching the peaks and valleys and buying low and selling high Cheesy

Buy Bitcoins with Paypal, Credit card, or other methods. Send me a PM or a text to 208-451-2665.
oblivi
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November 17, 2015, 06:57:07 PM
 #3067

Which one are you Jbreher?  Were you able to hang on to some of your early purchased coins?  Do you have thousands of coins, as some of the posters here assume?  

I believe that you are suggesting that your bitcoin holdings are much more modest than the assertion of "thousands."  

Haha. I wish. I once had amassed 'almost thousands'. But I learned a hard lesson about greed -- both that of my fellow man, and of my own -- in the pirate@40 / Trendon Shavers / BTCST debacle. I was utterly wiped out in that one.

I've been able to accumulate a few more coins since. Enough that, in the case I believe to be the 80% scenario (bitcoin eventually becomes ubiquitous), by the time I reach retirement age*, I'll be able to do so in grand style. Of course, in that scenario, even a single full bitcoin will be vast riches.

*any young pups out there might note that I am already as old as dirt.

Do you think that a 30 year old will be able to retire in 10 years with about 20 BTC? I cannot stand a single day at work, too much stress, I just need more free time, I cannot develop my hobbies, I suffer from anxiety, please help me BTC Sad

Perhaps a new job is in order rather than a miracle investment in a niche.

He has more chances at making it with BTC than trying to find a job that isn't very stressing nowadays. With 21 BTC, you are basically a member of a club where only 1 million people are admited (only 21 million coins ever, so only 1 million people holding 21 coins is possible).
If Bitcoin wins, the price should be high enough to retire with that in that period of time. Like satoshi said, if bitcoin is still around, it will be very valuable or be 0.

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November 17, 2015, 07:44:57 PM
 #3068

BTC could go up alot but not in the next 3-4 years.

Project back in time 3-4 years. Make that same statement at that time. Was just as logical then as it is now. But you would have missed that express elevator. Just like your attitude will have your future self kicking you for missing the next.

Hold on a second, I hold btc and will earn a lot in the future. So if btc will go up alot i`ll become rich.

I wont miss the next train. I just said to him to not waste time. Waiting 10 years for something is foolish, better work on it to get more btc.

That's the right thing to do holding and keeping it safe for the future can proved to an very profitable as we know that the price of BTC would go higher in the coming years so the best thing to do right now is to keep on earning bitcoins in the best possible way and this is the right time to invest in bitcoins so that we can become rich in the coming years.
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November 18, 2015, 03:45:06 AM
 #3069

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.



Your points are very valid, Denker.   A blanketted recommendation suggesting that the only way to accomplish meaningful gains is to trade your BTC (or any  other asset) is short-sighted and self-absorbed.

Every person needs to assess his/her own financial circumstances to ascertain risk, distribution and likely continue to tweak in the event that the totality of the investments are in fairly infant stages.


In this regard, building and hoarding BTC could be a very good strategy in light of the persons total distribution of investments, including considering the time horizon of the person.

On the other hand, if a portfolio becomes fairly well-distributed, and it has segments, such as BTC, that have become very profitable, then it may be prudent to take some of those profits; however, there seems to be likely considerable utility to continue to build the BTC portfolio, based on the overall expected value of that particular asset, in comparison to other fiat based assets that a person may hold (or have). 

In this regard, it seems prudent to continue to dollar cost average invest into BTC and to increase the overall accumulation of BTC while it is under $1,000 per BTC.  Surely, every person, while still accumulating, will need to decide for himself/herself, the extent to which s/he feels it is necessary to take some of the profits between $330 and $1,000.. and maybe even attempt trading and/or reinvesting - depending on the totality of the persons BTC holdings in comparison with other investments that s/he may have, etc.



cohnhead
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November 18, 2015, 04:33:17 AM
 #3070

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.



Your points are very valid, Denker.   A blanketted recommendation suggesting that the only way to accomplish meaningful gains is to trade your BTC (or any  other asset) is short-sighted and self-absorbed.

Every person needs to assess his/her own financial circumstances to ascertain risk, distribution and likely continue to tweak in the event that the totality of the investments are in fairly infant stages.


In this regard, building and hoarding BTC could be a very good strategy in light of the persons total distribution of investments, including considering the time horizon of the person.

On the other hand, if a portfolio becomes fairly well-distributed, and it has segments, such as BTC, that have become very profitable, then it may be prudent to take some of those profits; however, there seems to be likely considerable utility to continue to build the BTC portfolio, based on the overall expected value of that particular asset, in comparison to other fiat based assets that a person may hold (or have). 

In this regard, it seems prudent to continue to dollar cost average invest into BTC and to increase the overall accumulation of BTC while it is under $1,000 per BTC.  Surely, every person, while still accumulating, will need to decide for himself/herself, the extent to which s/he feels it is necessary to take some of the profits between $330 and $1,000.. and maybe even attempt trading and/or reinvesting - depending on the totality of the persons BTC holdings in comparison with other investments that s/he may have, etc.




i think you strategy is good but can't your statement about accumulating btc until it hits $1,000 also be construed as short sited and maybe self absorbed. how can you pick a arbitrary limit to an investment strategy like cost averaging...for you 1,000 may seem like an upper limit...to others just a starting point.  someone who is truly dollar averaging doesn't try to pick tops or bottoms...they just accumulate over time...at regular intervals.

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JayJuanGee
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November 18, 2015, 05:37:55 AM
 #3071

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.



Your points are very valid, Denker.   A blanketted recommendation suggesting that the only way to accomplish meaningful gains is to trade your BTC (or any  other asset) is short-sighted and self-absorbed.

Every person needs to assess his/her own financial circumstances to ascertain risk, distribution and likely continue to tweak in the event that the totality of the investments are in fairly infant stages.


In this regard, building and hoarding BTC could be a very good strategy in light of the persons total distribution of investments, including considering the time horizon of the person.

On the other hand, if a portfolio becomes fairly well-distributed, and it has segments, such as BTC, that have become very profitable, then it may be prudent to take some of those profits; however, there seems to be likely considerable utility to continue to build the BTC portfolio, based on the overall expected value of that particular asset, in comparison to other fiat based assets that a person may hold (or have). 

In this regard, it seems prudent to continue to dollar cost average invest into BTC and to increase the overall accumulation of BTC while it is under $1,000 per BTC.  Surely, every person, while still accumulating, will need to decide for himself/herself, the extent to which s/he feels it is necessary to take some of the profits between $330 and $1,000.. and maybe even attempt trading and/or reinvesting - depending on the totality of the persons BTC holdings in comparison with other investments that s/he may have, etc.




i think you strategy is good but can't your statement about accumulating btc until it hits $1,000 also be construed as short sited and maybe self absorbed. how can you pick a arbitrary limit to an investment strategy like cost averaging...for you 1,000 may seem like an upper limit...to others just a starting point.  someone who is truly dollar averaging doesn't try to pick tops or bottoms...they just accumulate over time...at regular intervals.


I may have misspoke a little bit, because I was not really trying to box in any exact formula for potentially getting rich on bitcoins because each formula will be somewhat dependent and hopefully tailored to the individuals overall circumstances.

And, in that regard, there will certainly be individuals with a lot of philosophies including those who have no intention to invest any further into bitcoin, no matter what the price.

Yet, to some extent, I believe that several readers of this thread assume that the price of BTC is increasing, yet there may be quite a lot of variance concerning whether individuals believe that they should continue to invest or to rest on the amount that they already invested.  In that regard, even though was criticizing some of the points of Biomech, I agree with him that there is likely increased value to have an interactive plan with regard to bitcoin holdings, even though I was criticizing his apparent assessment that trading is the only way to really profit from bitcoin (and to put one's BTC investment to work).  Maybe in the end, I agree with a lot of his points, except I have some difficulties with his apparent assertion that trading is good for everyone, when in fact some BTC investors may not be at that stage of their BTC investment, and they may never really be comfortable with the concept or practice of trading their BTC holdings.

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November 18, 2015, 06:00:37 PM
 #3072

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.



Your points are very valid, Denker.   A blanketted recommendation suggesting that the only way to accomplish meaningful gains is to trade your BTC (or any  other asset) is short-sighted and self-absorbed.

Every person needs to assess his/her own financial circumstances to ascertain risk, distribution and likely continue to tweak in the event that the totality of the investments are in fairly infant stages.


In this regard, building and hoarding BTC could be a very good strategy in light of the persons total distribution of investments, including considering the time horizon of the person.

On the other hand, if a portfolio becomes fairly well-distributed, and it has segments, such as BTC, that have become very profitable, then it may be prudent to take some of those profits; however, there seems to be likely considerable utility to continue to build the BTC portfolio, based on the overall expected value of that particular asset, in comparison to other fiat based assets that a person may hold (or have). 

In this regard, it seems prudent to continue to dollar cost average invest into BTC and to increase the overall accumulation of BTC while it is under $1,000 per BTC.  Surely, every person, while still accumulating, will need to decide for himself/herself, the extent to which s/he feels it is necessary to take some of the profits between $330 and $1,000.. and maybe even attempt trading and/or reinvesting - depending on the totality of the persons BTC holdings in comparison with other investments that s/he may have, etc.




i think you strategy is good but can't your statement about accumulating btc until it hits $1,000 also be construed as short sited and maybe self absorbed. how can you pick a arbitrary limit to an investment strategy like cost averaging...for you 1,000 may seem like an upper limit...to others just a starting point.  someone who is truly dollar averaging doesn't try to pick tops or bottoms...they just accumulate over time...at regular intervals.


I may have misspoke a little bit, because I was not really trying to box in any exact formula for potentially getting rich on bitcoins because each formula will be somewhat dependent and hopefully tailored to the individuals overall circumstances.

And, in that regard, there will certainly be individuals with a lot of philosophies including those who have no intention to invest any further into bitcoin, no matter what the price.

Yet, to some extent, I believe that several readers of this thread assume that the price of BTC is increasing, yet there may be quite a lot of variance concerning whether individuals believe that they should continue to invest or to rest on the amount that they already invested.  In that regard, even though was criticizing some of the points of Biomech, I agree with him that there is likely increased value to have an interactive plan with regard to bitcoin holdings, even though I was criticizing his apparent assessment that trading is the only way to really profit from bitcoin (and to put one's BTC investment to work).  Maybe in the end, I agree with a lot of his points, except I have some difficulties with his apparent assertion that trading is good for everyone, when in fact some BTC investors may not be at that stage of their BTC investment, and they may never really be comfortable with the concept or practice of trading their BTC holdings.
well stated....and for sure some of the biggest stakeholders don't trade at all (winklvoss's I don't think ever sell). and like you said its up to individual circumstance.

what I find interesting is that the $1000 mark that was reached in 2013.... I thought was a manufactured number...produced by a bot trading on gox.  So why do we hold that number in such high regard? 

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Bitcoinpro
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November 18, 2015, 06:13:16 PM
 #3073


www.cryptocurrencycentralbank.com 

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November 18, 2015, 06:39:18 PM
 #3074

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.

Your points are very valid, Denker.   A blanketted recommendation suggesting that the only way to accomplish meaningful gains is to trade your BTC (or any  other asset) is short-sighted and self-absorbed.

Every person needs to assess his/her own financial circumstances to ascertain risk, distribution and likely continue to tweak in the event that the totality of the investments are in fairly infant stages.


In this regard, building and hoarding BTC could be a very good strategy in light of the persons total distribution of investments, including considering the time horizon of the person.

On the other hand, if a portfolio becomes fairly well-distributed, and it has segments, such as BTC, that have become very profitable, then it may be prudent to take some of those profits; however, there seems to be likely considerable utility to continue to build the BTC portfolio, based on the overall expected value of that particular asset, in comparison to other fiat based assets that a person may hold (or have).  

In this regard, it seems prudent to continue to dollar cost average invest into BTC and to increase the overall accumulation of BTC while it is under $1,000 per BTC.  Surely, every person, while still accumulating, will need to decide for himself/herself, the extent to which s/he feels it is necessary to take some of the profits between $330 and $1,000.. and maybe even attempt trading and/or reinvesting - depending on the totality of the persons BTC holdings in comparison with other investments that s/he may have, etc.




i think you strategy is good but can't your statement about accumulating btc until it hits $1,000 also be construed as short sited and maybe self absorbed. how can you pick a arbitrary limit to an investment strategy like cost averaging...for you 1,000 may seem like an upper limit...to others just a starting point.  someone who is truly dollar averaging doesn't try to pick tops or bottoms...they just accumulate over time...at regular intervals.


I may have misspoke a little bit, because I was not really trying to box in any exact formula for potentially getting rich on bitcoins because each formula will be somewhat dependent and hopefully tailored to the individuals overall circumstances.

And, in that regard, there will certainly be individuals with a lot of philosophies including those who have no intention to invest any further into bitcoin, no matter what the price.

Yet, to some extent, I believe that several readers of this thread assume that the price of BTC is increasing, yet there may be quite a lot of variance concerning whether individuals believe that they should continue to invest or to rest on the amount that they already invested.  In that regard, even though was criticizing some of the points of Biomech, I agree with him that there is likely increased value to have an interactive plan with regard to bitcoin holdings, even though I was criticizing his apparent assessment that trading is the only way to really profit from bitcoin (and to put one's BTC investment to work).  Maybe in the end, I agree with a lot of his points, except I have some difficulties with his apparent assertion that trading is good for everyone, when in fact some BTC investors may not be at that stage of their BTC investment, and they may never really be comfortable with the concept or practice of trading their BTC holdings.
well stated....and for sure some of the biggest stakeholders don't trade at all (winklvoss's I don't think ever sell). and like you said its up to individual circumstance.

what I find interesting is that the $1000 mark that was reached in 2013.... I thought was a manufactured number...produced by a bot trading on gox.  So why do we hold that number in such high regard?  



I believe that $1,000 is just an easy reference point numerologically to round off.  I don't hold $1,000 in any high regard either because in November/December 2013 from exchange to exchange, bitcoins were trading at a vast array of high levels above $1k, including $1,163 on Stamp, and northwards of $1,500 on Local bitcoins, and higher on various other exchanges.


One thing that seems a bit special about the $1k price point concerns theories about whether BTC prices break that threshold or shoot past such price threshold.  

From the history of bitcoin price spikes and the breaking of previous ATHs, we have generally witnessed a considerable overshooting of the previous ATH... once the BTC price gets moving in the upward direction.  

Personally, I have the sense that this time around is not really going to be too much different from previous times.... even though there are more tools for shorting and more big money looking at it and more liquidation possibilities and trading platforms, etc. To me it seems that once the price gets moving into the upper 3 digits and breaks into the 4 digits territory, there seems to be a considerable likelihood that  BTC prices are going to overshoot again and to go past the previous ATH.  

Nonetheless, we have several resistance points, and seeming a considerable distance between $334 and $999.99 before we get to 4 digits in BTC pricing....

Furthermore, in my view, it seems that the past nearly 2 years of a bear market and almost a year of the bears being able to hold BTC prices in the below $300 territory, could cause some kinds of violence in the upward price momentum, and it could be possible, that  just moving past $500 again in prices could cause considerable piling on board with more fiat looking to buy BTC and less BTC looking to sell, which will merely cause BTC prices to go up very quickly and to again shoot past the $1k and above territory, possibly into the $3k to $5k territory, where people will again become more willing to sell than to buy.  I don't really know either, and I am just speculating the best I can based on my watching the market and interacting myself with both buying and selling (and mostly attempting to accumulate more BTC through such buying and selling activities).









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November 18, 2015, 06:40:24 PM
 #3075




Who?

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November 18, 2015, 11:39:23 PM
 #3076

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.

Your points are very valid, Denker.   A blanketted recommendation suggesting that the only way to accomplish meaningful gains is to trade your BTC (or any  other asset) is short-sighted and self-absorbed.

Every person needs to assess his/her own financial circumstances to ascertain risk, distribution and likely continue to tweak in the event that the totality of the investments are in fairly infant stages.


In this regard, building and hoarding BTC could be a very good strategy in light of the persons total distribution of investments, including considering the time horizon of the person.

On the other hand, if a portfolio becomes fairly well-distributed, and it has segments, such as BTC, that have become very profitable, then it may be prudent to take some of those profits; however, there seems to be likely considerable utility to continue to build the BTC portfolio, based on the overall expected value of that particular asset, in comparison to other fiat based assets that a person may hold (or have).  

In this regard, it seems prudent to continue to dollar cost average invest into BTC and to increase the overall accumulation of BTC while it is under $1,000 per BTC.  Surely, every person, while still accumulating, will need to decide for himself/herself, the extent to which s/he feels it is necessary to take some of the profits between $330 and $1,000.. and maybe even attempt trading and/or reinvesting - depending on the totality of the persons BTC holdings in comparison with other investments that s/he may have, etc.




i think you strategy is good but can't your statement about accumulating btc until it hits $1,000 also be construed as short sited and maybe self absorbed. how can you pick a arbitrary limit to an investment strategy like cost averaging...for you 1,000 may seem like an upper limit...to others just a starting point.  someone who is truly dollar averaging doesn't try to pick tops or bottoms...they just accumulate over time...at regular intervals.


I may have misspoke a little bit, because I was not really trying to box in any exact formula for potentially getting rich on bitcoins because each formula will be somewhat dependent and hopefully tailored to the individuals overall circumstances.

And, in that regard, there will certainly be individuals with a lot of philosophies including those who have no intention to invest any further into bitcoin, no matter what the price.

Yet, to some extent, I believe that several readers of this thread assume that the price of BTC is increasing, yet there may be quite a lot of variance concerning whether individuals believe that they should continue to invest or to rest on the amount that they already invested.  In that regard, even though was criticizing some of the points of Biomech, I agree with him that there is likely increased value to have an interactive plan with regard to bitcoin holdings, even though I was criticizing his apparent assessment that trading is the only way to really profit from bitcoin (and to put one's BTC investment to work).  Maybe in the end, I agree with a lot of his points, except I have some difficulties with his apparent assertion that trading is good for everyone, when in fact some BTC investors may not be at that stage of their BTC investment, and they may never really be comfortable with the concept or practice of trading their BTC holdings.
well stated....and for sure some of the biggest stakeholders don't trade at all (winklvoss's I don't think ever sell). and like you said its up to individual circumstance.

what I find interesting is that the $1000 mark that was reached in 2013.... I thought was a manufactured number...produced by a bot trading on gox.  So why do we hold that number in such high regard?  



I believe that $1,000 is just an easy reference point numerologically to round off.  I don't hold $1,000 in any high regard either because in November/December 2013 from exchange to exchange, bitcoins were trading at a vast array of high levels above $1k, including $1,163 on Stamp, and northwards of $1,500 on Local bitcoins, and higher on various other exchanges.


One thing that seems a bit special about the $1k price point concerns theories about whether BTC prices break that threshold or shoot past such price threshold.  

From the history of bitcoin price spikes and the breaking of previous ATHs, we have generally witnessed a considerable overshooting of the previous ATH... once the BTC price gets moving in the upward direction.  

Personally, I have the sense that this time around is not really going to be too much different from previous times.... even though there are more tools for shorting and more big money looking at it and more liquidation possibilities and trading platforms, etc. To me it seems that once the price gets moving into the upper 3 digits and breaks into the 4 digits territory, there seems to be a considerable likelihood that  BTC prices are going to overshoot again and to go past the previous ATH.  

Nonetheless, we have several resistance points, and seeming a considerable distance between $334 and $999.99 before we get to 4 digits in BTC pricing....

Furthermore, in my view, it seems that the past nearly 2 years of a bear market and almost a year of the bears being able to hold BTC prices in the below $300 territory, could cause some kinds of violence in the upward price momentum, and it could be possible, that  just moving past $500 again in prices could cause considerable piling on board with more fiat looking to buy BTC and less BTC looking to sell, which will merely cause BTC prices to go up very quickly and to again shoot past the $1k and above territory, possibly into the $3k to $5k territory, where people will again become more willing to sell than to buy.  I don't really know either, and I am just speculating the best I can based on my watching the market and interacting myself with both buying and selling (and mostly attempting to accumulate more BTC through such buying and selling activities).










I think your right about overshooting ATH.....that's a scenario that plays out often...kind of just happened with ltc.
a spike like that would have btc likely around 1,500....but first prices would have to go thru that 1,000 level.
When the time comes...does it blow past 1,000 or just slowly meander around it ...?

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cohnhead
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November 18, 2015, 11:39:58 PM
 #3077

yea who...I think ive seen before

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JayJuanGee
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November 19, 2015, 01:10:55 AM
 #3078

I love this thread Cheesy It never dies.

But of more substance, I have to disagree with the "hodl" crowd in most instances. I have gotten to the point where trading BTC is how I make the bulk of my living, and you pretty much have to play that day by day. On the most recent spike, I made really good money, but I make decent money every day. Money sitting in a vault does no good. It's purpose is trade, and that is how you increase your holdings.

Longer term, it's definitely a good play to have some BTC, dollars, diamonds, and etc. in storage, but not the bulk of it. Money in play, whatever form it's in, is where the profits are. And the losses, if we're to be honest, but carefully investing your assets will make you "wealthy elite" far quicker than waiting and hoping.

Good for you that you have the skills to trade successfully. I guess many here doesn't have these abilities or the time and patience to learn it.Risk to lose shouldn't be underestimated.And that's the reason everyone should do what he can do best to increase his BTC amount.

Your points are very valid, Denker.   A blanketted recommendation suggesting that the only way to accomplish meaningful gains is to trade your BTC (or any  other asset) is short-sighted and self-absorbed.

Every person needs to assess his/her own financial circumstances to ascertain risk, distribution and likely continue to tweak in the event that the totality of the investments are in fairly infant stages.


In this regard, building and hoarding BTC could be a very good strategy in light of the persons total distribution of investments, including considering the time horizon of the person.

On the other hand, if a portfolio becomes fairly well-distributed, and it has segments, such as BTC, that have become very profitable, then it may be prudent to take some of those profits; however, there seems to be likely considerable utility to continue to build the BTC portfolio, based on the overall expected value of that particular asset, in comparison to other fiat based assets that a person may hold (or have).  

In this regard, it seems prudent to continue to dollar cost average invest into BTC and to increase the overall accumulation of BTC while it is under $1,000 per BTC.  Surely, every person, while still accumulating, will need to decide for himself/herself, the extent to which s/he feels it is necessary to take some of the profits between $330 and $1,000.. and maybe even attempt trading and/or reinvesting - depending on the totality of the persons BTC holdings in comparison with other investments that s/he may have, etc.




i think you strategy is good but can't your statement about accumulating btc until it hits $1,000 also be construed as short sited and maybe self absorbed. how can you pick a arbitrary limit to an investment strategy like cost averaging...for you 1,000 may seem like an upper limit...to others just a starting point.  someone who is truly dollar averaging doesn't try to pick tops or bottoms...they just accumulate over time...at regular intervals.


I may have misspoke a little bit, because I was not really trying to box in any exact formula for potentially getting rich on bitcoins because each formula will be somewhat dependent and hopefully tailored to the individuals overall circumstances.

And, in that regard, there will certainly be individuals with a lot of philosophies including those who have no intention to invest any further into bitcoin, no matter what the price.

Yet, to some extent, I believe that several readers of this thread assume that the price of BTC is increasing, yet there may be quite a lot of variance concerning whether individuals believe that they should continue to invest or to rest on the amount that they already invested.  In that regard, even though was criticizing some of the points of Biomech, I agree with him that there is likely increased value to have an interactive plan with regard to bitcoin holdings, even though I was criticizing his apparent assessment that trading is the only way to really profit from bitcoin (and to put one's BTC investment to work).  Maybe in the end, I agree with a lot of his points, except I have some difficulties with his apparent assertion that trading is good for everyone, when in fact some BTC investors may not be at that stage of their BTC investment, and they may never really be comfortable with the concept or practice of trading their BTC holdings.
well stated....and for sure some of the biggest stakeholders don't trade at all (winklvoss's I don't think ever sell). and like you said its up to individual circumstance.

what I find interesting is that the $1000 mark that was reached in 2013.... I thought was a manufactured number...produced by a bot trading on gox.  So why do we hold that number in such high regard?  



I believe that $1,000 is just an easy reference point numerologically to round off.  I don't hold $1,000 in any high regard either because in November/December 2013 from exchange to exchange, bitcoins were trading at a vast array of high levels above $1k, including $1,163 on Stamp, and northwards of $1,500 on Local bitcoins, and higher on various other exchanges.


One thing that seems a bit special about the $1k price point concerns theories about whether BTC prices break that threshold or shoot past such price threshold.  

From the history of bitcoin price spikes and the breaking of previous ATHs, we have generally witnessed a considerable overshooting of the previous ATH... once the BTC price gets moving in the upward direction.  

Personally, I have the sense that this time around is not really going to be too much different from previous times.... even though there are more tools for shorting and more big money looking at it and more liquidation possibilities and trading platforms, etc. To me it seems that once the price gets moving into the upper 3 digits and breaks into the 4 digits territory, there seems to be a considerable likelihood that  BTC prices are going to overshoot again and to go past the previous ATH.  

Nonetheless, we have several resistance points, and seeming a considerable distance between $334 and $999.99 before we get to 4 digits in BTC pricing....

Furthermore, in my view, it seems that the past nearly 2 years of a bear market and almost a year of the bears being able to hold BTC prices in the below $300 territory, could cause some kinds of violence in the upward price momentum, and it could be possible, that  just moving past $500 again in prices could cause considerable piling on board with more fiat looking to buy BTC and less BTC looking to sell, which will merely cause BTC prices to go up very quickly and to again shoot past the $1k and above territory, possibly into the $3k to $5k territory, where people will again become more willing to sell than to buy.  I don't really know either, and I am just speculating the best I can based on my watching the market and interacting myself with both buying and selling (and mostly attempting to accumulate more BTC through such buying and selling activities).










I think your right about overshooting ATH.....that's a scenario that plays out often...kind of just happened with ltc.
a spike like that would have btc likely around 1,500....but first prices would have to go thru that 1,000 level.
When the time comes...does it blow past 1,000 or just slowly meander around it ...?


There can be a little bit of both going on, where it doesn't really seem clear what the price is going to do; however, in retrospect, the charts seem to show that the price blows right past, and not in a small way (5% to 30%) but instead in a larger way 200% to 500%.


Yes, the past doesn't exactly predict the future, so we can never really be sure - however, if we believe that there is a 5 or 10% chance that we are going to witness doubling or quadrupling or 10x current prices, then we should safely place our bets accordingly.  I am not suggesting to take out a second mortgage; however, it could be a prudent idea to sock a decent amount of free capital into BTC and maybe even forestall a few life luxury lattes and put some of that money into btc instead.... also, maybe instead of going out to eat once or twice a week, eat at home for a while and put some of the savings into BTC.







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November 21, 2015, 08:45:47 PM
 #3079

When the bitcoin price stays at around $350 for a few months or half year, the chance is that when the price does rise, the price will be much higher. It could be 3-5 times of the $350, or $1000 - $1600. If there is good news about adoption of bitcoin, the price will be even higher.
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November 21, 2015, 09:51:11 PM
 #3080

The price is very stable over the last months if we do not consider the short pump and dump action. Before the pump, the price was stable at $320. Now, it is back at this level since a couple of days. The halving will be next year and the slowely adoption of Bitcoin outside the limited community will rise the price.

When the bitcoin price stays at around $350 for a few months or half year, the chance is that when the price does rise, the price will be much higher. It could be 3-5 times of the $350, or $1000 - $1600. If there is good news about adoption of bitcoin, the price will be even higher.

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