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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 508309 times)
7bestone7
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July 17, 2015, 06:20:31 PM
 #2841

sorry for a little bit off topic question, but how a guest can write on this forum? the 1st post was posted by an anonymous poster that was guest am i getting something wrong?

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July 17, 2015, 06:29:32 PM
 #2842

Right now there's a lot of wait-and-see.

I don't think Bitcoin will rise much higher than it has - at least not sustainably - until mainstream investment places and fund managers are satisfied that Bitcoin is able to scale to at least thousands of tx per second.  

Meaning, we not only need to make the block sizes bigger, but we also need to develop new technology.  Side Chains, Fractalized blocks, or ... whatever.  But right now it's not taken very seriously because, five transactions a second?  And with a 20Mbyte block it'll go up to maybe a hundred?  Don't make an investor (or a broker) laugh, that's not even a good attempt at a payment system that could get off the ground in a serious way.  And so it gets dismissed.

Bitcoin could go above its current value, and stay there, only if the scalability issue gets addressed in a credible way.



The possibility that Bitcoin could take over all of the business of Visa/MasterCard is laughable. It took BankAmericard nearly 60 years to grow that kind of worldwide user base. PayPal, on the other hand, could be replaced with a superior system within 20 years or so. It would only take 100tps to replace all of the volume of PayPal. I doubt investors are laughing at PayPal. Blocksize will not need to be increased by much to handle PayPal sized transaction volume.

There are problems here that tps increases can't solve even with no cap and the highest grade nodes in every third house around the globe. As I mentioned above, Bitcoin needs to be a superior system in the minds of the current users of PayPal/Visa to steal away their customers. Where are the proposals for fraud protection, auto rental collision damage insurance, travel rewards, flyer miles, roadside assistance, cash back rewards, signature rewards, merchant discounts, etc. Bitcoin ease of use is about as different from Visa as a horse drawn carriage is to the automobile. Ease of use needs drastic improvements before Visa will need to start fretting. To think we can increase the tps rate and magically say, "ok, we're equal to Visa now just drop that plastic and come on over and use Bitcoin" is a child like mentality.


We need service companies. What is important is:

1) The market should require that the money they produce (the money extensions) should have the name bitcoin, not bitcoin backed pesos and the like. That is to avoid a devaluation. (Hey, now I get only a half bitcoin for my Instapay bitcoin, wtf!! That is a big red cloth to customers).

2) The market should require that they are readily redeamable. You might lose trust in them, or want another supplier. For this we need the maximum transaction per second number that the blockchain could possibly provide.

3) The market should require that they are fully backed. Could be cryptgraphic proof of reserve, but i fear that could be a lie.

Anyway, if a service company disappoint, there will be no way to save them by abusing the money system. If the public wants to save such company, it will have to be through taxation or loaning (with a nonfucked interest rate, good luck with that). I think the market will go for private insurance.



Isn't that a bit the same as saying "it is laughable to argue that Amazon in a few years could be big... it took Barnes and Noble 80 years to be a big player...".

...

I want bitcoin to be a big player with millions of transactions per second, but that is still not enough.
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July 17, 2015, 06:51:47 PM
 #2843

Right now there's a lot of wait-and-see.

I don't think Bitcoin will rise much higher than it has - at least not sustainably - until mainstream investment places and fund managers are satisfied that Bitcoin is able to scale to at least thousands of tx per second.  

Meaning, we not only need to make the block sizes bigger, but we also need to develop new technology.  Side Chains, Fractalized blocks, or ... whatever.  But right now it's not taken very seriously because, five transactions a second?  And with a 20Mbyte block it'll go up to maybe a hundred?  Don't make an investor (or a broker) laugh, that's not even a good attempt at a payment system that could get off the ground in a serious way.  And so it gets dismissed.

Bitcoin could go above its current value, and stay there, only if the scalability issue gets addressed in a credible way.



The possibility that Bitcoin could take over all of the business of Visa/MasterCard is laughable. It took BankAmericard nearly 60 years to grow that kind of worldwide user base. PayPal, on the other hand, could be replaced with a superior system within 20 years or so. It would only take 100tps to replace all of the volume of PayPal. I doubt investors are laughing at PayPal. Blocksize will not need to be increased by much to handle PayPal sized transaction volume.

There are problems here that tps increases can't solve even with no cap and the highest grade nodes in every third house around the globe. As I mentioned above, Bitcoin needs to be a superior system in the minds of the current users of PayPal/Visa to steal away their customers. Where are the proposals for fraud protection, auto rental collision damage insurance, travel rewards, flyer miles, roadside assistance, cash back rewards, signature rewards, merchant discounts, etc. Bitcoin ease of use is about as different from Visa as a horse drawn carriage is to the automobile. Ease of use needs drastic improvements before Visa will need to start fretting. To think we can increase the tps rate and magically say, "ok, we're equal to Visa now just drop that plastic and come on over and use Bitcoin" is a child like mentality.


We need service companies. What is important is:

1) The market should require that the money they produce (the money extensions) should have the name bitcoin, not bitcoin backed pesos and the like. That is to avoid a devaluation. (Hey, now I get only a half bitcoin for my Instapay bitcoin, wtf!! That is a big red cloth to customers).

2) The market should require that they are readily redeamable. You might lose trust in them, or want another supplier. For this we need the maximum transaction per second number that the blockchain could possibly provide.

3) The market should require that they are fully backed. Could be cryptgraphic proof of reserve, but i fear that could be a lie.

Anyway, if a service company disappoint, there will be no way to save them by abusing the money system. If the public wants to save such company, it will have to be through taxation or loaning (with a nonfucked interest rate, good luck with that). I think the market will go for private insurance.



Isn't that a bit the same as saying "it is laughable to argue that Amazon in a few years could be big... it took Barnes and Noble 80 years to be a big player...".

...

I want bitcoin to be a big player with millions of transactions per second, but that is still not enough.


If things go as planned we should be about paypal level in the next decade.


But we should aim for total world domination. Bitcoin must deprecate all other payment methods, to the point people feel stupid using them. We must make them feel as if they are still using paper mail when we got email. Bitcoin's ultimate goal is #1 electronic global transaction, anything else is being a pussy. All or nothing.

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July 18, 2015, 09:15:57 AM
 #2844

I mean regulation as a collection of rules that all "legal" Bitcoin companies has to follow. Every institutional investor needs statutory requirements in order to be able to invest debt capital into Bitcoins or crypto currencies in common.

I am personally are not a fan of regulation. But if Bitcoin should become mainstream and if it should create more value (in order to become the rich new elite  Cheesy) then regulation is absolutely needed Wink

A lot of people are upset about the increased regulation that Bitcoin is seeing.

That regulation came about as a direct result of Mt.Gox (and several others) failing to honor their commitments, and is mostly intended to prevent a recurrence.  Given what the effin' amateurs whose pretenses or attempts at doing solid business have cost Bitcoin holders so far, it's not a disproportionate response.

So, whatever other people feel about increased regulation, I can't say that it was the wrong thing to do.
Regulation hold everything back. And who and how is going to regulate bitcoin? Exchanges can be, but bitcoin itself no.

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July 18, 2015, 09:37:45 AM
 #2845

If things go as planned we should be about paypal level in the next decade.

snip

paypal level is joke, i'm quite certain that we can reach their volume next year with the halving, no need to wait a decade for that, bitcoin is moving at a much faster rate

this is true for the TX volume, there was a graph that was making a comparison between all the payment system, i'm trying to find it

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July 18, 2015, 03:55:09 PM
 #2846

If things go as planned we should be about paypal level in the next decade.

snip

paypal level is joke, i'm quite certain that we can reach their volume next year with the halving, no need to wait a decade for that, bitcoin is moving at a much faster rate

this is true for the TX volume, there was a graph that was making a comparison between all the payment system, i'm trying to find it


find us @BitNyeFe
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July 18, 2015, 04:20:23 PM
 #2847

yeah that's it thank you(there was another one actually but they depict the same thing so this is ok too), note that we are not far from paypal if we grew up to 300m in 6 years, reaching 400M, should not takes more than two year by a linear point of view

but since the growth is not linear at all, the next year could be the year where we surpass paypal and maybe Discover(pulse network), top 5 is not so unattainable

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July 18, 2015, 05:56:48 PM
 #2848

Actually Satoshi Nakamoto said something along the lines of "if Bitcoin isn't used everywhere in 10 or 20 years it will not exist" so he clearly aimed for a global usage. Bitcoin is exactly that, all or nothing, it was never designed to stop at some sort of small internet niche, this is really the next level in money and not only that, in tons of things as well since we know the Blockchain can be used for endless tasks.

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July 18, 2015, 06:40:29 PM
 #2849

Actually Satoshi Nakamoto said something along the lines of "if Bitcoin isn't used everywhere in 10 or 20 years it will not exist" so he clearly aimed for a global usage. Bitcoin is exactly that, all or nothing, it was never designed to stop at some sort of small internet niche, this is really the next level in money and not only that, in tons of things as well since we know the Blockchain can be used for endless tasks.

The holy lord said:

Feb. 14, 2010:

I’m sure that in 20 years there will either be very large (bitcoin) transaction volume or no volume.

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error


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July 18, 2015, 07:44:16 PM
 #2850

After the BOOM of bitcoin, what was the low price it ever was?

error
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July 18, 2015, 07:53:14 PM
 #2851

After the BOOM of bitcoin, what was the low price it ever was?
I saw it was $124 going through all the threads from the past 2 years. Earlier than that, I wouldn't want to guess. Remember it being said it was $50 but that was at the btc rate increase.
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July 18, 2015, 08:14:58 PM
 #2852

After the BOOM of bitcoin, what was the low price it ever was?
I saw it was $124 going through all the threads from the past 2 years. Earlier than that, I wouldn't want to guess. Remember it being said it was $50 but that was at the btc rate increase.

$100 on Bitfinex Feb 2014

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitfinex/btcusd
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July 19, 2015, 12:33:12 AM
 #2853

that was before 1000$ BTC price.


error
jonald_fyookball
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July 19, 2015, 01:15:04 AM
 #2854

Actually Satoshi Nakamoto said something along the lines of "if Bitcoin isn't used everywhere in 10 or 20 years it will not exist" so he clearly aimed for a global usage. Bitcoin is exactly that, all or nothing, it was never designed to stop at some sort of small internet niche, this is really the next level in money and not only that, in tons of things as well since we know the Blockchain can be used for endless tasks.

The holy lord said:

Feb. 14, 2010:

I’m sure that in 20 years there will either be very large (bitcoin) transaction volume or no volume.

'very large' is relative.  we are already very large compared to any reasonable expectations based on 2010's sentiment.

still, one can infer exponential growth from Satoshi's statement and that appears to be happening.
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July 19, 2015, 08:34:01 AM
 #2855

that was before 1000$ BTC price.



it was after actually because 1k happened around january, but it does not mean anything because a manipulated price like that on one exchange only does not count at all

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July 19, 2015, 01:28:06 PM
 #2856

that was before 1000$ BTC price.



it was after actually because 1k happened around january, but it does not mean anything because a manipulated price like that on one exchange only does not count at all

Finally, someone gets it. Bitcoin has never hit $1k exchange rate. That was a Karpeles con. It's actually a testament to Bitcoin's success that we've held stable at the $250-$300 range for so long. There's nothing wrong with it taking 30 years to reach $1k exchange rate. Most people just don't want to believe it will take that long because that doesn't fit neatly into their early retirement plan.

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July 19, 2015, 02:23:57 PM
 #2857

Bitcoin has never hit $1k exchange rate. That was a Karpeles con.
So yesterday's dip on btc-e to 150USD is btc-e con?

no.
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July 19, 2015, 03:00:17 PM
 #2858

that was before 1000$ BTC price.



it was after actually because 1k happened around january, but it does not mean anything because a manipulated price like that on one exchange only does not count at all

Finally, someone gets it. Bitcoin has never hit $1k exchange rate. That was a Karpeles con. It's actually a testament to Bitcoin's success that we've held stable at the $250-$300 range for so long. There's nothing wrong with it taking 30 years to reach $1k exchange rate. Most people just don't want to believe it will take that long because that doesn't fit neatly into their early retirement plan.

Well, it did hit it regardless of manipulation. Maybe someone could manipulate it back there too. I do think it is going to take a while for us to get back to 1k but if bitcoin is adopted by a major industry or company then I think we'll get their sooner than people think.
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July 19, 2015, 03:49:03 PM
 #2859

Alright but i do not think he is cute enough.
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July 19, 2015, 04:26:02 PM
 #2860

Actually Satoshi Nakamoto said something along the lines of "if Bitcoin isn't used everywhere in 10 or 20 years it will not exist" so he clearly aimed for a global usage. Bitcoin is exactly that, all or nothing, it was never designed to stop at some sort of small internet niche, this is really the next level in money and not only that, in tons of things as well since we know the Blockchain can be used for endless tasks.

The holy lord said:

Feb. 14, 2010:

I’m sure that in 20 years there will either be very large (bitcoin) transaction volume or no volume.

He was clever.

I completely agree. There is no middle ground. People are on this because it's the next big thing. Those hopes will either come true or be shattered.

Let's find ways for individuals to keep their bitcoins safe... I think we need big corporations to come in and guarantee they can keep them safe for us. I cannot see any other option right now... I know some would not like this, but what is the alternative?
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