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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 508376 times)
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February 28, 2016, 06:56:09 AM
 #3201

I am also pretty confident that we are. After people realise Bitcoin is the currency of the future, we will be world renowned as the pioneers of Bitcoin.

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May 29, 2016, 12:55:47 AM
 #3202

I am also pretty confident that we are. After people realise Bitcoin is the currency of the future, we will be world renowned as the pioneers of Bitcoin.

When you have a week like the last week, it makes me think of this thread and wonder how Atlas is doing IRL.
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May 29, 2016, 01:29:32 AM
 #3203

NXT is pretty fast, it has 1 min block time, compared to 10min in btc, so i dont know what your talking about.

If the use case is an exchange that enables day trading, 1 minute is an eternity to some.

besides fastcoin, there were not other altcoin with a faster block time, 1 min is considered the best for altcoin already lowering even more is only asking for a better orphan rate

Yea 1 min is pretty solid, i would even go as far as 3 min.   But 10 min seems too slow for me.

I have to wait usually 20-30 min for a TX to complete, it's ridiculous.


How spoiled we became, for bank transfer we wait 4 days, and we are angry to wait 30 min for bitcoin transfer Cheesy

But still, if its possible, why not make it 2-3 min long?

because the transactions have to propegate over the entire worlds, 2-3 minute average transaction time means that in a lot of cases the transactions don't arrive in time and the network will often not agree on the order of transactions and forks would happen all the time

and spam attacks become easier, reducing the amount of transactions that can be included.

also, the security of a transaction is based on the amount of effort it requires to 'undo' it. So a transaction that is 6 blocks deep in a 10 minute average block-time means it would need about 1 hour of work to undo (all while racing the current blockchain). If you make 1 minute blocks, you'd need to be 60 blocks deep for the same security, so nothing really changes.

Faster blocks are definitely not an improvement.

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May 29, 2016, 01:31:02 AM
 #3204

There is something to be said about enjoying the journey for sure! It is so weird waking up day after day to amazing growth. We are still so new to this it is almost shocking. I keep thinking and waiting for this huge crash back to reality but then we had this supposed "crash" this week and we are still well above our initial investment. 

We are relatively late to this too. I can only imagine what it is like for some of you that bought coins in the $1-$10 range and held until now. Crazy.
But part of the fun of all of this is the anticipation for sure. Even if Bitcoin does not reach the super high milestones predicted by some, it has been way too much fun so far! Almost addicting really. I might need some therapy here soon.


most of those people have sold at least some of their coins by now.

yeah there might be a handful of people who still hold a few 1000 coins, but those are really rare.


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May 29, 2016, 03:18:42 AM
 #3205

There is something to be said about enjoying the journey for sure! It is so weird waking up day after day to amazing growth. We are still so new to this it is almost shocking. I keep thinking and waiting for this huge crash back to reality but then we had this supposed "crash" this week and we are still well above our initial investment. 

We are relatively late to this too. I can only imagine what it is like for some of you that bought coins in the $1-$10 range and held until now. Crazy.
But part of the fun of all of this is the anticipation for sure. Even if Bitcoin does not reach the super high milestones predicted by some, it has been way too much fun so far! Almost addicting really. I might need some therapy here soon.


most of those people have sold at least some of their coins by now.

yeah there might be a handful of people who still hold a few 1000 coins, but those are really rare.



How do you prove that is so rare?
Bitcoin used to sell in public for as low as $0.003/btc (yes ~one third of a penny per BTC), so you could mine/buy many thousands and (after losing/giving away over half) still easily have more than several thousand left.
Accept and worship your elite Bitcoin overlords.  Cheesy

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May 29, 2016, 04:13:06 AM
 #3206

There is something to be said about enjoying the journey for sure! It is so weird waking up day after day to amazing growth. We are still so new to this it is almost shocking. I keep thinking and waiting for this huge crash back to reality but then we had this supposed "crash" this week and we are still well above our initial investment.  

We are relatively late to this too. I can only imagine what it is like for some of you that bought coins in the $1-$10 range and held until now. Crazy.
But part of the fun of all of this is the anticipation for sure. Even if Bitcoin does not reach the super high milestones predicted by some, it has been way too much fun so far! Almost addicting really. I might need some therapy here soon.


most of those people have sold at least some of their coins by now.

yeah there might be a handful of people who still hold a few 1000 coins, but those are really rare.



How do you prove that is so rare?
Bitcoin used to sell in public for as low as $0.003/btc (yes ~one third of a penny per BTC), so you could mine/buy many thousands and (after losing/giving away over half) still easily have more than several thousand left.
Accept and worship your elite Bitcoin overlords.  Cheesy

well, for one, there are only 15 million bitcoin in circulation, so at most 15000 people can possibly even own 1000 coins.

but there's also a website that tracks all bitcoin wallets (note how all transactions are on the blockchain, so it's easy to watch all wallets and see how much is in each wallet) and makes a rich list, knd of like the Quote 500, but more accurate.

Here's an overview of people above a certain threshold amount of bitcoin.
Quote
1BTC:   465,992
10BTC:   125,460
100BTC:   12,907
1,000BTC:   1,585
10,000BTC:   110
100,000BTC:   3
Total(>0BTC):   7,250,077

as you can see, there's only 1500 wallets with more than 1000 bitcoin in them.

There's about 13000 wallets with more than 100 bitcoin in them

For the record, there are about 11 million millionares in the US alone.

There are about 1800 billionaires in the world.

So, even if 1 bitcoin would become $1,000,000 then it would not create "too many billionaires."

In fact, the wealth distribution would be similar to how it is now if bitcoin would be $1,000,000

which only further supports the assumption that bitcoin still has plenty of room to grow.

Also since there's only about 7 million non-empty wallets (and many people use more than 1 wallet) not even 1 in a 1000 people even owns a fraction of a bitcoin. And not even 1 in 10,000 own more than 1 bitcoin.

Are you seeing why i keep saying that bitcoin will not stop rising in price any time soon, and $100,000~10,000,000 prices are not only likely, but ultimately inevitable. (Assuming mass adoption, which at this point in itself is almost inevitable as even banks and governments are getting involved).

Also note that some of these huge (1000+) wallets belong to satoshi and others are for example cold wallets of casinos or exchanges. So the actual amount of bitcoin super-rich is tiny. The 3 wallets that contain over 100,000 bitcoin are most likely all belonging to satoshi. Actually they're probably exchanges, seeing as how much money is moving around regularly on these addresses

In a time window of 5 to 10 years I expect bitcoin to be somewhere between $100,000 and $10,000,000 in price range. (My best guess would be somewhere near 3.5 million) Depending on the scale of the adoption. Barring mayor problems along the road.

On top of all this, this chart (http://ondn.net:800/topamount) shows that even though most holders have been accumulating bitcoin, the total amount held by the top 100 wealthiest bitcoiners has actually gone down recently, while the top 1000 wealthiest has gone up. (although it's tracking wallets, not persons, so maybe they just split their money over more wallets). Either way, it doesn't look like "the rich are getting richer" and it seems like the wealth is getting distributed slightly more evenly. (As you would expect from the way bitcoin is designed, even though perfect wealth distribution is impossible in any system, bitcoin is more fair than fiat by design).

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May 29, 2016, 04:47:47 AM
 #3207

Exchanges have way more Bitcoin than anyone else, it's not real BTC

but in combination with money velocity and asset transfers

it does add wealth, so in effect it dilutes real Bitcoin wealth

in a type of complex situation combined with other things like

network security, customer relationships, supply and demand

confidence rationalitity government type etc

www.cryptocurrencycentralbank.com 

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May 29, 2016, 06:37:15 AM
 #3208

I would like to believe that such  expected prices are really possible, but it is just speculation. I will be very satisfied if the bitcoin price reaches the $2000 level and perhaps at that point I would sell a good part of my coins, and will keep the other part to see what the future can bring for us.

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May 29, 2016, 07:54:57 AM
 #3209

Atlas rises from the dead once again.

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May 29, 2016, 08:05:14 AM
 #3210

and so I am. but when I think about the rate of bitcoin in 2007. it make me a little selfish. I thought perhaps I whould have join bitcoin in that time . now I will have a good about of bitcoin  and definantly we will be counted in elite class. but still I am hopeful to raise to that position in near future.
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May 29, 2016, 03:00:29 PM
 #3211

There is something to be said about enjoying the journey for sure! It is so weird waking up day after day to amazing growth. We are still so new to this it is almost shocking. I keep thinking and waiting for this huge crash back to reality but then we had this supposed "crash" this week and we are still well above our initial investment.  

We are relatively late to this too. I can only imagine what it is like for some of you that bought coins in the $1-$10 range and held until now. Crazy.
But part of the fun of all of this is the anticipation for sure. Even if Bitcoin does not reach the super high milestones predicted by some, it has been way too much fun so far! Almost addicting really. I might need some therapy here soon.


most of those people have sold at least some of their coins by now.

yeah there might be a handful of people who still hold a few 1000 coins, but those are really rare.



How do you prove that is so rare?
Bitcoin used to sell in public for as low as $0.003/btc (yes ~one third of a penny per BTC), so you could mine/buy many thousands and (after losing/giving away over half) still easily have more than several thousand left.
Accept and worship your elite Bitcoin overlords.  Cheesy

well, for one, there are only 15 million bitcoin in circulation, so at most 15000 people can possibly even own 1000 coins.

but there's also a website that tracks all bitcoin wallets (note how all transactions are on the blockchain, so it's easy to watch all wallets and see how much is in each wallet) and makes a rich list, knd of like the Quote 500, but more accurate.

Here's an overview of people above a certain threshold amount of bitcoin.
Quote
1BTC:   465,992
10BTC:   125,460
100BTC:   12,907
1,000BTC:   1,585
10,000BTC:   110
100,000BTC:   3
Total(>0BTC):   7,250,077

as you can see, there's only 1500 wallets with more than 1000 bitcoin in them.

There's about 13000 wallets with more than 100 bitcoin in them

For the record, there are about 11 million millionares in the US alone.

There are about 1800 billionaires in the world.

So, even if 1 bitcoin would become $1,000,000 then it would not create "too many billionaires."

In fact, the wealth distribution would be similar to how it is now if bitcoin would be $1,000,000

which only further supports the assumption that bitcoin still has plenty of room to grow.

Also since there's only about 7 million non-empty wallets (and many people use more than 1 wallet) not even 1 in a 1000 people even owns a fraction of a bitcoin. And not even 1 in 10,000 own more than 1 bitcoin.

Are you seeing why i keep saying that bitcoin will not stop rising in price any time soon, and $100,000~10,000,000 prices are not only likely, but ultimately inevitable. (Assuming mass adoption, which at this point in itself is almost inevitable as even banks and governments are getting involved).

Also note that some of these huge (1000+) wallets belong to satoshi and others are for example cold wallets of casinos or exchanges. So the actual amount of bitcoin super-rich is tiny. The 3 wallets that contain over 100,000 bitcoin are most likely all belonging to satoshi. Actually they're probably exchanges, seeing as how much money is moving around regularly on these addresses

In a time window of 5 to 10 years I expect bitcoin to be somewhere between $100,000 and $10,000,000 in price range. (My best guess would be somewhere near 3.5 million) Depending on the scale of the adoption. Barring mayor problems along the road.

On top of all this, this chart (http://ondn.net:800/topamount) shows that even though most holders have been accumulating bitcoin, the total amount held by the top 100 wealthiest bitcoiners has actually gone down recently, while the top 1000 wealthiest has gone up. (although it's tracking wallets, not persons, so maybe they just split their money over more wallets). Either way, it doesn't look like "the rich are getting richer" and it seems like the wealth is getting distributed slightly more evenly. (As you would expect from the way bitcoin is designed, even though perfect wealth distribution is impossible in any system, bitcoin is more fair than fiat by design).



I don't really disagree with a lot of your analysis Zimmah - yet I am a bit concern about part of your premise about addresses.

The longer someone owns bitcoin and the more that s/he uses bitcoin, the more addresses s/he creates, and even some older and more sophisticated users advocate using a different address for each transaction.

I've been using bitcoin about 2.5 years, and I can also be a witness to this kind of address generation.  At first I only had a few places that I held bitcoins, and I barely did any transactions. My use of bitcoin has increased.  I think I do some off chain transactions with various (third party holder of my coins) , yet I probably generate a new address on average about once every 3 or 4 on chain transactions.  I estimate that  I've probably generated more than 40 bitcoin addresses through my various usages in such a short period of time, and some addresses hold more bitcoins than others, and several addresses have fraction of coins remaining.



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May 29, 2016, 03:07:44 PM
 #3212

Atlas rises from the dead once again.
yes, its nice to see that bitcoin is growing back up to the all time high after it being down to about 200 dollars per bitcoin only, since that time the price of it already has tripled

im also really confident that the price in the future wont stop growing at a very rapid pace in my opinion thus it will allow us to make some good money and we will be wealthy

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May 29, 2016, 03:08:11 PM
 #3213

and so I am. but when I think about the rate of bitcoin in 2007. it make me a little selfish. I thought perhaps I whould have join bitcoin in that time . now I will have a good about of bitcoin  and definantly we will be counted in elite class. but still I am hopeful to raise to that position in near future.

Bitcoin didn't exist in 2007, genesis block was mined in 2009-01-03

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May 29, 2016, 03:15:31 PM
 #3214

yes i agree with that on halving we gonna be rich if you hoard some bitcoin on your wallet that will be more beneficial for all of us. See the price of the bitcoin it raises up. Because of to many buy's because halving is near they gonna hoard bitcoins. Wealthy to does have money to buy bitcoins. Just enough to the small players that have less capital  Grin

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May 29, 2016, 03:45:44 PM
 #3215

yes i agree with that on halving we gonna be rich if you hoard some bitcoin on your wallet that will be more beneficial for all of us. See the price of the bitcoin it raises up. Because of to many buy's because halving is near they gonna hoard bitcoins. Wealthy to does have money to buy bitcoins. Just enough to the small players that have less capital  Grin
We are now successfully moving towards it and I am sure in future we gonna be super rich people, as price rise indicates that bitcoin has lot to offer in future.
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May 29, 2016, 04:35:43 PM
 #3216

Also since there's only about 7 million non-empty wallets (and many people use more than 1 wallet) not even 1 in a 1000 people even owns a fraction of a bitcoin. And not even 1 in 10,000 own more than 1 bitcoin.

Also note that some of these huge (1000+) wallets belong to satoshi and others are for example cold wallets of casinos or exchanges.

I thought Satoshi has only 50 Bitcoin addresses from mining, as he spent only once  Huh for testing purpose - he might be the only super holder who never spends.

Also some of the wealthiest addresses belongs to exchanges holding all customer Bitcoins in one address - and you would be surprised at the amount of people holding coins at exchanges, sometimes not even trading!

I liked reading your post and the fact this thread wakes up pretty regularly when the Bitcoin price rises.

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May 29, 2016, 04:51:45 PM
 #3217

[...]
Faster blocks are definitely not an improvement.

It only took dozens of pumped and dumped altcoins for the (newbie) cryto currency world to realize that.

Still I really like Bitcoin's instant 0-confirmation. You are not in doubt for minutes whether or not the transaction will likely be successful. That the actual settlement takes a bit longer, who cares.

You can figure out what will happen, not when /Warren Buffett
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May 29, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
 #3218

Sooner or later, i hope the day of "10k a pop" prices will come, and it aint that insane of a thought when you think about it.
Every time theres a price rise, threads like this one gets remembered, and im actually happy that there are still positive thinking people around ^^

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May 29, 2016, 09:03:18 PM
 #3219

Still I really like Bitcoin's instant 0-confirmation. You are not in doubt for minutes whether or not the transaction will likely be successful.

In an era of full blocks, you can no longer trust zero-conf will ever confirm.

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May 29, 2016, 09:25:32 PM
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Still I really like Bitcoin's instant 0-confirmation. You are not in doubt for minutes whether or not the transaction will likely be successful.

In an era of full blocks, you can no longer trust zero-conf will ever confirm.

True. I do however pay an above average fee to increase my odds. If only there was a perfect way to increase the tx/sec.. Really curious to see how this plays out. One way or the other, but it will.


Back on topic: by being able to actually get (into) Bitcoin, you are already part of a wealthy minority. I really am supportive to the projects that make Bitcoin available to the rest of the world, providing the financial tools currently only available to the wealthy elite.

You can figure out what will happen, not when /Warren Buffett
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