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Author Topic: I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite, gentlemen.  (Read 508079 times)
BayAreaCoins
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January 05, 2015, 07:28:40 PM
 #2441

Then please go break CLAM and www.Just-dice.com to show us.

 Roll Eyes  These challenges are like saying "I've built an impregnable brick vault on my front lawn and sealed a whole FIVE DOLLARS inside it" ...


i.e. nobody is breaking into it because the jackhammer rental is more than $5....

No one saying anything about dollars fucktard.

I'm just saying if you want to test to see if PoS is decent then you got to try to fuck it up.

Dooglus has contributed directly to BTC as well, so seems like a good one to try to fuck up before choosing if BTC should go down that path or not.

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January 05, 2015, 07:33:35 PM
 #2442

and I'm saying there is a cost to do a decent attempt at fucking up a PoS coin, a threshold value, that does not scale a lot, when market cap of a PoS coin gets big enough, it will be worth fucking up, until then, it's a $5 in a brick vault that remains "impregnable" only because it's not worth $5 to mess with.

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January 05, 2015, 07:41:24 PM
 #2443

and I'm saying there is a cost to do a decent attempt at fucking up a PoS coin, a threshold value, that does not scale a lot, when market cap of a PoS coin gets big enough, it will be worth fucking up, until then, it's a $5 in a brick vault that remains "impregnable" only because it's not worth $5 to mess with.

For a strange reason you divided the number by 10000...
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January 05, 2015, 07:44:23 PM
 #2444

and I'm saying there is a cost to do a decent attempt at fucking up a PoS coin, a threshold value, that does not scale a lot, when market cap of a PoS coin gets big enough, it will be worth fucking up, until then, it's a $5 in a brick vault that remains "impregnable" only because it's not worth $5 to mess with.

Ya the costs would be large due to having to buy out 51% of the coin or launching a site like Just-dice.

I wonder if BTC was PoS if Coinbase or someone else would have great than 51% of the coins staking against the network.

The Silk Road obviously would have and there aren't just too many kick ass trustable Bitcoin services to pool coins for staking.  Just-dice is currently WAY over 51% of the staked coins in this lil BS I'm watching and learning from.

I expect PoS would make Bitcoin centralized very fast after watching the "$5 brick" for a month, but that could change as that "$5 bricks" market cap grows + adds services.

If BTC had a market cap of $8 Billion I think it would be more secure to require the attacker to purchase the 51% rather than use a bunch of zombie computers + special made chips.

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January 08, 2015, 08:08:42 PM
 #2445


If BTC had a market cap of $8 Billion I think it would be more secure to require the attacker to purchase the 51% rather than use a bunch of zombie computers + special made chips.

This should be self evident but most Bitcoiners seem to miss this important point.

Even if PoS systems thus far haven't given us our Bitcoin-ready fully robust system sufficiently tested yet, everyone should be supporting research towards that goal. Anyone who doesn't see the obvious benefits of cutting out the mining waste, both financial and environmental, probably just invested all their money in ASICs or something. That or they're crazy.

Mining sucks.
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January 08, 2015, 09:09:39 PM
 #2446


If BTC had a market cap of $8 Billion I think it would be more secure to require the attacker to purchase the 51% rather than use a bunch of zombie computers + special made chips.

This should be self evident but most Bitcoiners seem to miss this important point.

Even if PoS systems thus far haven't given us our Bitcoin-ready fully robust system sufficiently tested yet, everyone should be supporting research towards that goal. Anyone who doesn't see the obvious benefits of cutting out the mining waste, both financial and environmental, probably just invested all their money in ASICs or something. That or they're crazy.

Mining sucks.


mining is what gives bitcoin it's worth

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January 08, 2015, 11:28:16 PM
 #2447


mining is what gives bitcoin it's worth

People are what give Bitcoins its worth.  The blockchain is totally fucking worthless without humans (duh...)

Mining is a good way of fucking a lot of people who don't understand 6 ways from Sunday.  It also maybe the thing that saves Bitcoin.  Huh

Time will tell far better than I could speculate, but like I said I think BTC should remain the same and law makers should just fuck off for 5 years to let all this shit get sorted out by the community and user base.


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January 08, 2015, 11:36:12 PM
 #2448


mining is what gives bitcoin it's worth

People are what give Bitcoins its worth.  The blockchain is totally fucking worthless without humans (duh...)


gold, silver, diamonds, aluminium, steel, etc, etc are also effing worthless without humans ... however, if humans value something the expense/cost to dig it up, melt it down, calculate, compute, etc is what gives it worth ... think about it.

http://szabo.best.vwh.net/shell.html

Quote
...  At first, the production of a commodity simply because it is costly seems quite wasteful. However, the unforgeably costly commodity repeatedly adds value by enabling beneficial wealth transfers. More of the cost is recouped every time a transaction is made possible or made less expensive. The cost, initially a complete waste, is amortized over many transactions. The monetary value of precious metals is based on this principle. It also applies to collectibles, which are more prized the rarer they are and the less forgeable this rarity is. It also applies where provably skilled or unique human labor is added to the product, as with art. ...

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January 09, 2015, 12:01:49 AM
 #2449


mining is what gives bitcoin it's worth

People are what give Bitcoins its worth.  The blockchain is totally fucking worthless without humans (duh...)


gold, silver, diamonds, aluminium, steel, etc, etc are also effing worthless without humans ... however, if humans value something the expense/cost to dig it up, melt it down, calculate, compute, etc is what gives it worth ... think about it.

http://szabo.best.vwh.net/shell.html

Quote
...  At first, the production of a commodity simply because it is costly seems quite wasteful. However, the unforgeably costly commodity repeatedly adds value by enabling beneficial wealth transfers. More of the cost is recouped every time a transaction is made possible or made less expensive. The cost, initially a complete waste, is amortized over many transactions. The monetary value of precious metals is based on this principle. It also applies to collectibles, which are more prized the rarer they are and the less forgeable this rarity is. It also applies where provably skilled or unique human labor is added to the product, as with art. ...

Gold's chemical, electrical, and even some of its physical properties make it such that its rarity is the only thing keeping humans from using it in a variety of ways on a daily basis.

Blockchains are everywhere now. Useful, but not rare

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 09, 2015, 12:14:45 AM
 #2450

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Gold's chemical, electrical, and even some of its physical properties make it such that its rarity is the only thing keeping humans from using it in a variety of ways on a daily basis.

Blockchains are everywhere now. Useful, but not rare

... this is a typically naive objection. Rarity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for money to have value and only one of many monetary properties that a free market evaluates when arriving at valuations.

You have much reading to do, google "subjective theory of value". Ever tried poking 100 ounces of gold through your internet jack to get it to instantly pop out on the other side of the world in your trading partner's hands?

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January 09, 2015, 12:17:57 AM
 #2451

Quote
Gold's chemical, electrical, and even some of its physical properties make it such that its rarity is the only thing keeping humans from using it in a variety of ways on a daily basis.

Blockchains are everywhere now. Useful, but not rare

... this is a typically naive objection. Rarity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for money to have value and only one of many monetary properties that a free market evaluates when arriving at valuations.

You have much reading to do, google "subjective theory of value". Ever tried poking 100 ounces of gold through your internet jack to get it to instantly pop out on the other side of the world in your trading partner's hands?

You missed my point maybe. If rarity is a necessary condition, and blockchains aren't rare...

Because logic.

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 09, 2015, 12:34:06 AM
 #2452


You missed my point maybe. If rarity is a necessary condition, and blockchains aren't rare...

Because logic.

.. quite sure that you've missed mine.

There is only ONE bitcoin blockchain that will never have more than 21 million tradeable units. The bootstrap phase is already over, bitcoin is money, end of story. If you think you can bootstrap similar network effect value into a competing decentralised blockchain and computing hash-backed secure transaction network, good luck to you. Altcoins

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January 09, 2015, 12:36:37 AM
 #2453


You missed my point maybe. If rarity is a necessary condition, and blockchains aren't rare...

Because logic.

.. quite sure that you've missed mine.

There is only ONE bitcoin blockchain that will never have more than 21 million tradeable units. The bootstrap phase is already over, bitcoin is money, end of story. If you think you can bootstrap similar network effect value into a competing decentralised blockchain and computing hash-backed secure transaction network, good luck to you. Altcoins

If Bitcoin dumps any lower we will have to bootstrap it again

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 09, 2015, 10:11:23 AM
 #2454

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Gold's chemical, electrical, and even some of its physical properties make it such that its rarity is the only thing keeping humans from using it in a variety of ways on a daily basis.

Blockchains are everywhere now. Useful, but not rare

... this is a typically naive objection. Rarity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for money to have value and only one of many monetary properties that a free market evaluates when arriving at valuations.

You have much reading to do, google "subjective theory of value". Ever tried poking 100 ounces of gold through your internet jack to get it to instantly pop out on the other side of the world in your trading partner's hands?

You missed my point maybe. If rarity is a necessary condition, and blockchains aren't rare...

Because logic.
That's like saying, Gold isn't rare, because I can take a rock and paint it with golden color.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/
New censorship-free forum by Roger Ver. Try it out.
BlindMayorBitcorn
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January 09, 2015, 10:19:20 AM
 #2455

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Gold's chemical, electrical, and even some of its physical properties make it such that its rarity is the only thing keeping humans from using it in a variety of ways on a daily basis.

Blockchains are everywhere now. Useful, but not rare

... this is a typically naive objection. Rarity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for money to have value and only one of many monetary properties that a free market evaluates when arriving at valuations.

You have much reading to do, google "subjective theory of value". Ever tried poking 100 ounces of gold through your internet jack to get it to instantly pop out on the other side of the world in your trading partner's hands?

You missed my point maybe. If rarity is a necessary condition, and blockchains aren't rare...

Because logic.
That's like saying, Gold isn't rare, because I can take a rock and paint it with golden color.

I wish people would stop saying what it's like saying and concentrate on what was actually said. The false analogy just muddies the water even more.

My point was not overly controversial I think.

If a clone of Bitcoin somehow took all the hash, it would then just become Bitcoin again. But gold is uniquely useful in a number of ways that can't easily be replicated. The fact that gold is rare is the reason we don't use it more

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 09, 2015, 10:40:16 AM
 #2456

Quote
Gold's chemical, electrical, and even some of its physical properties make it such that its rarity is the only thing keeping humans from using it in a variety of ways on a daily basis.

Blockchains are everywhere now. Useful, but not rare

... this is a typically naive objection. Rarity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for money to have value and only one of many monetary properties that a free market evaluates when arriving at valuations.

You have much reading to do, google "subjective theory of value". Ever tried poking 100 ounces of gold through your internet jack to get it to instantly pop out on the other side of the world in your trading partner's hands?

You missed my point maybe. If rarity is a necessary condition, and blockchains aren't rare...

Because logic.
That's like saying, Gold isn't rare, because I can take a rock and paint it with golden color.

I wish people would stop saying what it's like saying and concentrate on what was actually said. The false analogy just muddies the water even more.

My point was not overly controversial I think.

If a clone of Bitcoin somehow took all the hash, it would then just become Bitcoin again. But gold is uniquely useful in a number of ways that can't easily be replicated. The fact that gold is rare is the reason we don't use it more
If all the gold miners would start mining coal instead. Coal would become gold. Wait, what?
Sorry, but your statements are just perfect for "false analogies" since they don't make much sense.
I don't know, what is so hard to understand about: There will just be 21 million bitcoin ever and a dogecoin is not a bitcoin. So, Bitcoin are rare.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/
New censorship-free forum by Roger Ver. Try it out.
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January 09, 2015, 10:44:38 AM
 #2457

Quote
Gold's chemical, electrical, and even some of its physical properties make it such that its rarity is the only thing keeping humans from using it in a variety of ways on a daily basis.

Blockchains are everywhere now. Useful, but not rare

... this is a typically naive objection. Rarity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for money to have value and only one of many monetary properties that a free market evaluates when arriving at valuations.

You have much reading to do, google "subjective theory of value". Ever tried poking 100 ounces of gold through your internet jack to get it to instantly pop out on the other side of the world in your trading partner's hands?

You missed my point maybe. If rarity is a necessary condition, and blockchains aren't rare...

Because logic.
That's like saying, Gold isn't rare, because I can take a rock and paint it with golden color.

I wish people would stop saying what it's like saying and concentrate on what was actually said. The false analogy just muddies the water even more.

My point was not overly controversial I think.

If a clone of Bitcoin somehow took all the hash, it would then just become Bitcoin again. But gold is uniquely useful in a number of ways that can't easily be replicated. The fact that gold is rare is the reason we don't use it more
If all the gold miners would start mining coal instead. Coal would become gold. Wait, what?
Sorry, but your statements are just perfect for "false analogies" since they don't make much sense.
I don't know, what is so hard to understand about: There will just be 21 million bitcoin ever and a dogecoin is not a bitcoin. So, Bitcoin are rare.

What if a decade from now a sidechain of Bitcoin is forked and takes all the hash? scBTC and BTC would not be that different. But Gold and Coal are..quite different Roll Eyes

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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January 09, 2015, 10:58:58 AM
 #2458

Quote
Gold's chemical, electrical, and even some of its physical properties make it such that its rarity is the only thing keeping humans from using it in a variety of ways on a daily basis.

Blockchains are everywhere now. Useful, but not rare

... this is a typically naive objection. Rarity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for money to have value and only one of many monetary properties that a free market evaluates when arriving at valuations.

You have much reading to do, google "subjective theory of value". Ever tried poking 100 ounces of gold through your internet jack to get it to instantly pop out on the other side of the world in your trading partner's hands?

You missed my point maybe. If rarity is a necessary condition, and blockchains aren't rare...

Because logic.
That's like saying, Gold isn't rare, because I can take a rock and paint it with golden color.

I wish people would stop saying what it's like saying and concentrate on what was actually said. The false analogy just muddies the water even more.

My point was not overly controversial I think.

If a clone of Bitcoin somehow took all the hash, it would then just become Bitcoin again. But gold is uniquely useful in a number of ways that can't easily be replicated. The fact that gold is rare is the reason we don't use it more
If all the gold miners would start mining coal instead. Coal would become gold. Wait, what?
Sorry, but your statements are just perfect for "false analogies" since they don't make much sense.
I don't know, what is so hard to understand about: There will just be 21 million bitcoin ever and a dogecoin is not a bitcoin. So, Bitcoin are rare.

What if a decade from now a sidechain of Bitcoin is forked and takes all the hash? scBTC and BTC would not be that different. But Gold and Coal are..quite different Roll Eyes
If they would not be that different, why would scBTC take all the hash? You are just making things up.
If coal in a decade would develop the same attributes as gold, it would overtake gold.

https://forum.bitcoin.com/
New censorship-free forum by Roger Ver. Try it out.
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January 09, 2015, 01:52:02 PM
 #2459

Resurrection of the elite thread is normally bullish, but this time it is stuffed with trolls, so, bearish.

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January 09, 2015, 02:00:59 PM
 #2460

Resurrection of the elite thread is normally bullish, but this time it is stuffed with trolls, so, bearish.



What's the opposite of wealthy elite?

Destitute commoners maybe?  Someone should start that thread for us...








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