IOTA

[GingerAle]

i'll move the discussion here to keep your crowdsale thread on topic

i don't know why you went this route. Why not have a conventional POW / blockchain phase for distribution, then shift to the DAG? In this case, the blockchain would really be used as simply a record of distribution.

And give all coins to a single botnet master? Hm, not sure it's a good alternative...

true, good point. I'm not saying its an easy problem. I'm just not a fan of the chosen approach. Its centralized. And granted, I haven't kept up with these threads, but 1 month distribution phase? I guess your hoping it takes to the markets after this. And how does the infrastructure get built? I know the topology of a DAG-based currency network is different than a blockchain-based network....

sorry, just rambling.

[pandher]

I write more about this here: http://medium.com/@DavidSonstebo/iota-97592581f985

Thanks, ill have a look

[Come-from-Beyond]

And how does the infrastructure get built?

Partially Iota will ride on the success of the hardware which design will be funded by Iota sale. The hardware already takes into account such things as distributed computing and cryptography, it will provide hardware acceleration for the both.

[tolstoy]

Loophole-free Bell test TU Delft crowns 80-years-old debate on nature of reality: Einsteins “spooky action” is real.
http://www.tudelft.nl/en/current/latest-news/article/detail/einsteins-ongelijk-delfts-experiment-beeindigt-80-jaar-oude-discussie/

Definitely a really interesting result. Last 'loophole free' test turned out to have been analysed wrong, so expect another 6 months until consensus.  It also leave retrocausal and free will loophole open

A couple more links on the Bell test.

Quantum entanglement, loophole free  19 November 2015
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/magazine/physicstoday/news/10.1063/PT.5.7221

Experiment records extreme quantum weirdness  9 November 2015
http://www.quantumlah.org/highlight/151109_tsirelson_bound.php

[tolstoy]

This is neat, a derivation of the Wallis product for pi (circa 1655) via quantum mechanics.

A quantum derivation of a classic math formula
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/magazine/physicstoday/news/10.1063/PT.5.7220

Journal of Mathematical Physics Volume 56, Issue 11
http://dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.4930800

[Come-from-Beyond]

While the sale is progressing let's do a little brainstorming.

Iota network can be used as a carrier for any kind of data. Personally, I need a decentralized email service that won't read my letters for its product placement tricks (side-effect: NSA won't spy me). This service will be something average between classical email and classical chat, the messages will be received by me only if I keep Iota node software running. If I can't run such software I can pay to retrieve (encrypted) letters from nodes that provide storage service in exchange for iotas. I need your ideas about what types of services you need, so I could merge some of these services with mine.

[superresistant]

Personally, I need a decentralized email service that won't read my letters for its product placement tricks (side-effect: NSA won't spy me). This service will be something average between classical email and classical chat, the messages will be received by me only if I keep Iota node software running. If I can't run such software I can pay to retrieve (encrypted) letters from nodes that provide storage service in exchange for iotas.

I need this too but don't we have already a lot of encrypted mail or chat providers on the market ?
The only problem of all these software solutions is that you need the receiver to use the same software.

Today, almost no one use encryption. Kids use text messages, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp and Snapchat.
It just means that people don't give a damn about their privacy so what about going the other way around and create more spywares and personal data extraction methods ?

Should we think about better ways of making money or ways of making a better world ?

While the sale is progressing let's do a little brainstorming.
Iota network can be used as a carrier for any kind of data.

Well the killer app would be to merge existing services AND offer a better price.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I need this too but don't we have already a lot of encrypted mail or chat providers on the market ?

Which one satisfies the both requirements - decentralized and lightweight?

[nexern]

from my POV it's all about nano payments, IOTA is perfect for this.
merge a client with a communication component (e.g. tox) to enable people to 'earn' money e.g.
for advices, supports, facts, translations and so on. a free android hybrid like this, including
a global micro service directory with nice categories would be great. payment could be calculated
per word, if chat advise is used or per minute/seconds for calls. every micro service entry in
the directory contains the type of service (categorized) a rating from users already used this
resource, weighted by total service usage and the word/second/minute pricing.

people like to communicate and the more if they can earn something with this. big potential to
reach the external market with high usage numbers if done right.

without my current workload i would built an app like this immediatly, success guaranteed.

Added:
i also predict that the money earning wouldn't be the main motivation to use
such a service. the fun factor, sharing knowledge and conneting to people
around the world, enveloped with a monetary symbol of appreciation (IOTAs) is it.

[superresistant]

I need this too but don't we have already a lot of encrypted mail or chat providers on the market ?

Which one satisfies the both requirements - decentralized and lightweight?

Absolutely none because, until now, real decentralization lead to fucking slow and buggy services.
Decentralized became the antonym of lightweight.
That's why I have high hope for IOTA's technology to succeed.

from my POV it's all about nano payments, IOTA is perfect for this.
merge a client with a communication component (e.g. tox) to enable people to 'earn' money e.g.
for advices, supports, facts, translations and so on. a free android hybrid like this, including
a global micro service directory with nice categories would be great. payment could be calculated
per word, if chat advise is used or per minute/seconds for calls. every micro service entry in
the directory contains the type of service (categorized) a rating from users already used this
resource, weighted by total service usage and the word/second/minute pricing.
people like to communicate and the more if they can earn something with this. big potential to
reach the external market with high usage numbers if done right.
without my current workload i would built an app like this immediatly, success guaranteed.
i also predict that the money earning wouldn't be the main motivation to use
such a service. the fun factor, sharing knowledge and conneting to people
around the world, enveloped with a monetary symbol of appreciation (IOTAs) is it.

Interesting.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Unfortunatelly, messengers like Telegram use algorithms vulnerable to quantum computers. It means that if 3-letter agencies can't decrypt data yet, they still can store them and read later. Interfacing with existing chat programs will be impossible, it seems.

Any ideas how popular a lightweight decentralized secure chatting may be?

[nexern]

Unfortunatelly, messengers like Telegram use algorithms vulnerable to quantum computers. It means that if 3-letter agencies can't decrypt data yet, they still can store them and read later. Interfacing with existing chat programs will be impossible, it seems.

Any ideas how popular a lightweight decentralized secure chatting may be?

quantum resistance isn't needed for a service like this. the goal here is a different one.

[Tobo]

While the sale is progressing let's do a little brainstorming.
Iota network can be used as a carrier for any kind of data. Personally, I need a decentralized email service that won't read my letters for its product placement tricks (side-effect: NSA won't spy me). This service will be something average between classical email and classical chat, the messages will be received by me only if I keep Iota node software running. If I can't run such software I can pay to retrieve (encrypted) letters from nodes that provide storage service in exchange for iotas. I need your ideas about what types of services you need, so I could merge some of these services with mine.

Vitalik mentioned a very interesting concept of the voting/predicting contents with micro-payment on the internet in this paper - https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/11/24/applications-of-security-deposits-and-prediction-markets-you-might-not-have-thought-about/

Micro-payment might enable people and business to adopt this kind prediction market business model in the real life and business world. It will be interesting to see Iota apps provide service in this kind prediction market.  

[Come-from-Beyond]

quantum resistance isn't needed for a service like this. the goal here is a different one.

I disagree, if messages will be decrypted in 10 years then you can't use such service for some confidential communications.

[Seccour]

quantum resistance isn't needed for a service like this. the goal here is a different one.

I disagree, if messages will be decrypted in 10 years then you can't use such service for some confidential communications.

Same here, if you don't want a message to be decrypted by someone else now, why would you take the risk that someone decrypt it in 1, 2, 5 or 10 years ?

[nexern]

quantum resistance isn't needed for a service like this. the goal here is a different one.

I disagree, if messages will be decrypted in 10 years then you can't use such service for some confidential communications.

so it's better to skip very usefull things due to 0.1% uncertainty?
nonsens, this argument is very crypto centric and economical also unwise.

ethereum for instance is great and i have to admit that these guys are very good in reaching the external
market but for real nano payments ethereum fees are to expensive. iota could shine here but for this it is
necessary to throw the 100% claim on everything over board.

it's much more simple. things has to work for it's usage scenario. they don't have to be perfect.
this 100% claim is a weak point within the whole cryptosphere and prevents mass market adaption.

[nexern]

quantum resistance isn't needed for a service like this. the goal here is a different one.

I disagree, if messages will be decrypted in 10 years then you can't use such service for some confidential communications.

Same here, if you don't want a message to be decrypted by someone else now, why would you take the risk that someone decrypt it in 1, 2, 5 or 10 years ?

a service like this isn't designed for confidential communication, same as e.g whatsapp. it just need todo the job for what it is designed for.
if you need quantum resistant communication create a tool, doing exactly this. different pairs of shoes.

Added:
just some mental gym, would IOTA benefit if e.g. whatsapp would decide tomorrow to include an IOTA payment gateway for microservices?
would this spread the usage of IOTA and increase outside awareness? what would be the disadvantage?

[Tobo]

so it's better to skip very usefull things due to 0.1% uncertainty?
nonsens, this argument is very crypto centric and economical also unwise.

I think nexern brought out a very important issue for all cryptos here. That is how a crypto reach out the business and industry instead of waiting for the business and industry to reach to the crypto. There are many hurdles between these two worlds. Egos and business expertise are among them.

Crypto devs/experts have lots of egos among themselves. They tend to think the business and industry have to come to us because we are better. It could be true eventually. But when they eventually come to cyrptos, they may not come to your cryptos. They will do whatever can maximize their profit because it is their ultimate goal and motivation. What is driving them is not the ideology

I think business expertise is the second biggest hurdle. Business is another area of study and it needs equal talents to be good at this area. Usually the experts in the crypto world lack this kind business expertise. Whoever master both or a team with both skills will create great business and enterprise as we can see in the history.

[Come-from-Beyond]

so it's better to skip very usefull things due to 0.1% uncertainty?
nonsens, this argument is very crypto centric and economical also unwise.

ethereum for instance is great and i have to admit that these guys are very good in reaching the external
market but for real nano payments ethereum fees are to expensive. iota could shine here but for this it is
necessary to throw the 100% claim on everything over board.

it's much more simple. things has to work for it's usage scenario. they don't have to be perfect.
this 100% claim is a weak point within the whole cryptosphere and prevents mass market adaption.

I think it all depends on what market is targetted. I'll create a 100% QC-proof solution, someone could adapt it for "casual" markets.

[nexern]

100% is an illusion, nothing is 100% if your resolution is high enough.
an asymptotically nearing, granted but mother nature shows us every day,
that 'good enough to work' is sufficient and probably also the optimum
to run everything.

however, would be nice to see something like the com-wallet hybrid
i mentioned before.