[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet

[klokan]

technical (noob) question: how long does trezor remember its keys if not powered up for years? at least a theoretical forecast/speculation, please. the concern is to move a part of funds to a trezor that would not be used frequently (at all in near future) and if there is something like an internal battery that should be taken into account for long period of inactivity?

The seed is stored in flash memory. It does not need power and the device does not have any internal batery. The minimal data retention of flash is usualy specified as 15 years, but this is the minimum that is guaranteed for devices stored in extreme conditions (85°C). When storing in normal temperatures, it should last at least 100 years according to this study: http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/eng_bulletin/EB618.pdf

[binford]

technical (noob) question: how long does trezor remember its keys if not powered up for years? ...

The seed is stored in flash memory. It does not need power and the device does not have any internal batery. The minimal data retention of flash is usualy specified as 15 years, but this is the minimum that is guaranteed for devices stored in extreme conditions (85°C). When storing in normal temperatures, it should last at least 100 years according to this study: http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/eng_bulletin/EB618.pdf

thanks! indeed I could not remember any battery mentioned in the bill of materials nor did I see any on the the pic of the board. just not familiar with the flash memory properties.

[keithers]

technical (noob) question: how long does trezor remember its keys if not powered up for years? at least a theoretical forecast/speculation, please. the concern is to move a part of funds to a trezor that would not be used frequently (at all in near future) and if there is something like an internal battery that should be taken into account for long period of inactivity?

The seed is stored in flash memory. It does not need power and the device does not have any internal batery. The minimal data retention of flash is usualy specified as 15 years, but this is the minimum that is guaranteed for devices stored in extreme conditions (85°C). When storing in normal temperatures, it should last at least 100 years according to this study: http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/eng_bulletin/EB618.pdf

Thanks for this share.   I was curious as to the estimated length that the storage would work for.   I won't be alive for 100 more years, it will be funny if my trezor is still working by then...

[binford]

... I won't be alive for 100 more years, it will be funny if my trezor is still working by then...

i think in 100 years the issue will be finding a computer with usb connector

[cor]

Maybe one day I will buy one trezor , but before I should learn how to use it. Let me "learn".

No need to learn.
I gave the package to a girl, she knew nothing about Bitcoins and she was able to use Trezor within few minutes.

Just get it, go to mytrezor.com and follow instructions.

[TwinWinNerD]

myTrezor is boken for me.

Anyone else?

[Erdogan]

myTrezor is boken for me.

Anyone else?

Before you give up, make sure you try all the USB ports you have. It needs a lot of power, and not all ports are capable.

[TwinWinNerD]

No, I am talking about the Bits of Proof connection. My balances aren't loanding. Trezor isn't even plugged in. It worked for a while, now it is not working again.

[guitarplinker]

No, I am talking about the Bits of Proof connection. My balances aren't loanding. Trezor isn't even plugged in. It worked for a while, now it is not working again.

Mine is working fine without my Trezor plugged in.

Try clearing cookies and cache from your browser and see if that makes a difference.

[marcus_of_augustus]

so a friend gave me a trezor to play around with (first edition), here's what I got so far ..

openend the box, read the manual, smelled the newness etc ...

1) went to mytrezor.com, clicked on download plug-in (.rpm for fedora) prompted for to save as a file Yumex can handle (assume that all the signing of the plug-in package is secure and taken care of correctly in the back-end but who really knows ... plug-in seems to install without error

2) connected the Trezor device, SElinux alerts go off immediately the plug-in tries to run ... checking into details for the SEAlert gives a few options for allowing mozilla plugins correct access to root locations ... ok, w/e

Code:

SELinux is preventing /usr/lib64/firefox/plugin-container from write access on the chr_file .

just playing at this stage so not going to allow that for real until I think through what it is trying to do but play along since I'm not putting any coins anywhere near this until I understand it

3) device connects and immediately get a firmware is out-of-date message that flashes up only long enough for me to read first two lines then disappears ... so need to keep disconnecting and reconnecting device until I can read the whole message ... I need to connect device while holding both buttons down simultaneously which needs both hands on the short cable

4) connect device while holding down both buttons and page asks do I want to update firmware ... sure what else am I going to do, rewrite it myself? ... the "Yes update" button seems to be non-responsive  and then error message flashes up

Code:

Update Failed
b._session is null

and browser becomes very sluggish, cpu fan kicks in signifying usually a runaway process (most likely the mytrezor plugin I expect)

... I think that is far as I will be taking testing with the Trezor for today.

[esuncloud]

Any idea how to use trezor with iphone, and is this in the roadmap, etc.
There is no usb available on iphone, so maybe we could go with hijack as below:
https://code.google.com/p/hijack-main/

[slush]

2) connected the Trezor device, SElinux alerts go off immediately the plug-in tries to run ... checking into details for the SEAlert gives a few options for allowing mozilla plugins correct access to root locations ... ok, w/e

Code:

SELinux is preventing /usr/lib64/firefox/plugin-container from write access on the chr_file .

just playing at this stage so not going to allow that for real until I think through what it is trying to do but play along since I'm not putting any coins anywhere near this until I understand it

This should be okay. SELinux rules obviously don't expect that browser should talk to USB...

3) device connects and immediately get a firmware is out-of-date message

This is also fine. We've released new firmware since we stocked this batch of devices.

that flashes up only long enough for me to read first two lines then disappears ... so need to keep disconnecting and reconnecting device until I can read the whole message ...

Well, this is definitely a bug. Could you please report this to support@bitcointrezor.com together with the output from the Javascript console? There's "show log" in right bottom corner of site which should do the job. Log will help us a lot.

4) connect device while holding down both buttons and page asks do I want to update firmware ... sure what else am I going to do, rewrite it myself? ...

Haha. The security question is there for obvious reason, so user cannot be guided by malicious software to bootloader mode without knowing that the firmware can be replaced without any further confirmation.

error message flashes up

Code:

Update Failed
b._session is null

and browser becomes very sluggish, cpu fan kicks in signifying usually a runaway process (most likely the mytrezor plugin I expect)

Hm, this may be related to previous issue with flickering dialog. As a temporary workaround, reloading the site and re-connecting the Trezor directly to bootloader mode (without letting the dialog about outdated firmware appear) might help. I know, it's definitely bug and we'll hunt it, but this may actually help instantly.

[slush]

FYI there's the only one official place to buy TREZORs: buytrezor.com. All ebay offers and resellers are not official channels and buyers should be aware of potential risks.

[marcus_of_augustus]

2) connected the Trezor device, SElinux alerts go off immediately the plug-in tries to run ... checking into details for the SEAlert gives a few options for allowing mozilla plugins correct access to root locations ... ok, w/e

Code:

SELinux is preventing /usr/lib64/firefox/plugin-container from write access on the chr_file .

just playing at this stage so not going to allow that for real until I think through what it is trying to do but play along since I'm not putting any coins anywhere near this until I understand it

This should be okay. SELinux rules obviously don't expect that browser should talk to USB...

3) device connects and immediately get a firmware is out-of-date message

This is also fine. We've released new firmware since we stocked this batch of devices.

that flashes up only long enough for me to read first two lines then disappears ... so need to keep disconnecting and reconnecting device until I can read the whole message ...

Well, this is definitely a bug. Could you please report this to support@bitcointrezor.com together with the output from the Javascript console? There's "show log" in right bottom corner of site which should do the job. Log will help us a lot.

4) connect device while holding down both buttons and page asks do I want to update firmware ... sure what else am I going to do, rewrite it myself? ...

Haha. The security question is there for obvious reason, so user cannot be guided by malicious software to bootloader mode without knowing that the firmware can be replaced without any further confirmation.

error message flashes up

Code:

Update Failed
b._session is null

and browser becomes very sluggish, cpu fan kicks in signifying usually a runaway process (most likely the mytrezor plugin I expect)

Hm, this may be related to previous issue with flickering dialog. As a temporary workaround, reloading the site and re-connecting the Trezor directly to bootloader mode (without letting the dialog about outdated firmware appear) might help. I know, it's definitely bug and we'll hunt it, but this may actually help instantly.

Thanks Slush.

Ok, I tried what you suggested but similar behaviour with the plug-in essentially making the browser sluggish and unsusable. I was unable to retrieve a log due to the unresponsiveness.

There is however a bright side.

I then tried to do the recommended procedure on a fedora 32-bit using the appropriate .rpm plug-in and it all went as per the manual. So the firmware is now updated and Trezor is initialised with a seed, etc.

Now taking the Trezor back to the 64-bit machine it appears to be doing the correct things with the standard wallet behaviour (no firmware issues now) but is still really slow and sluggish to keyboard and mouse inputs. So I think it might be just that the 64-bit .rpm plug-in is buggy. Another point on the plug-ins are they open source? Can I see the source and how the binaries are built, i.e. I would like to test build the .rpm packages myself and check if it is specific to my fedora platform or if it is RH-derivative wide issue. Also I'm interested to see what the plumbing of securing the plug-in binaries looks like.

[samuelseidel]

@SLUSH: Well done! Really good job!
              The securest hardware wallet that I have seen.
              I will buy one in few days! Keep going!

[RoadStress]

Time has come to start thinking about purchasing a Trezor for myself (or maybe 2). I have read the manual and the FAQ found on the website, but I couldn't find any information about Armory compatibility and multi-sig addresses. Would I be able to create a 2-of-3 multi sig address in Armory and to have Trezor as one of the 3 addresses?

[stick]

Time has come to start thinking about purchasing a Trezor for myself (or maybe 2). I have read the manual and the FAQ found on the website, but I couldn't find any information about Armory compatibility and multi-sig addresses. Would I be able to create a 2-of-3 multi sig address in Armory and to have Trezor as one of the 3 addresses?

Multisig was implemented just recently and will be possible after the upcoming 1.3.0 firmware update is released.

[klokan]

the upcoming 1.3.0 firmware update is released.

When?

[woodson]

Time has come to start thinking about purchasing a Trezor for myself (or maybe 2). I have read the manual and the FAQ found on the website, but I couldn't find any information about Armory compatibility and multi-sig addresses. Would I be able to create a 2-of-3 multi sig address in Armory and to have Trezor as one of the 3 addresses?

Multisig was implemented just recently and will be possible after the upcoming 1.3.0 firmware update is released.

ordered this week and I'm eager to receive.  Will the orders shipped this week have the update?

Thanks and best to you,

Woodson

[lyth0s]

@SLUSH: Well done! Really good job!
              The securest hardware wallet that I have seen.
              I will buy one in few days! Keep going!

Everyone should be aware that these devices apparently can take up to 2 months to get via mail. They are sent from Czech republic via standard mail   and apparently get caught up in customs for up to 5 weeks....and THEN are mailed to your address by USPS, which can take up to 21 days for delivery (WTF).


Even if your product is amazing Slush et al, you seriously need to find a trusted american reseller or start using DHL/UPS. I most definitely would have paid extra for the shipping. I planned on using my trezor 2 weeks ago, now I'm stuck without mine for who knows how long....