[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[GoldenEye]

this guy is a turd.  I had 4 million lisk on my first day exchange also and now sitting under 200k. 

Either this guy is retarded or if you're reading this crap and believe him, you're a bigger idiot than him.

4 million Lisk on first day of ICO and now under 200k - how is this possible?

As per the current BTC invested in the ICO your holdings should still be around 2 million Lisk.

How about an example?
If I was the first participant with a 1 BTC "donation": I got all the 85,000,000 Lisk.

Today (nearly 1700 BTC invested), my part is only 50,000 Lisk.
But my share is still worth 1 BTC!

[MalReynolds]

LISK DONATIONS BY DAY

Day 1&2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Donated BTC 801 44 132 109 190 107 63 69 113

Donated XCR 23.75 1.39 0.56 2.70 0.45 0.36 0.41 5.60 0.28

Days "end" at 23:59 UTC.  Because of delay in ICO launch, days 1 and 2 are combined and represent approximately the first 36 hours of donations.  

BTC donations are rounded off in table above.  

Actual totals at the end of day 10 were 1628.27 BTC and 35.5 XCR (counted as an additional 461.5 BTC equivalent).

17 days to go!

[LiskHQ]

Thanks, added to OP.


One thing is missing. If you close the modal and open it again, then the passphrase will be different. This happens due to the fact we don't save the passphrases, it's securely generated every time the modal is opened.

[punkrock]

Thanks, added to OP.
One thing is missing. If you close the modal and open it again, then the passphrase will be different. This happens due to the fact we don't save the passphrases, it's securely generated every time the modal is opened.

Added it: https://i.imgur.com/7u5cQIX.png

[LiskHQ]

Thanks, added to OP.
One thing is missing. If you close the modal and open it again, then the passphrase will be different. This happens due to the fact we don't save the passphrases, it's securely generated every time the modal is opened.

Added it: https://i.imgur.com/7u5cQIX.png

Awesome. Updated mine as well. You might need to delete your cache to see the changes. 

[StinkyLover]

this guy is a turd.  I had 4 million lisk on my first day exchange also and now sitting under 200k.  

Either this guy is retarded or if you're reading this crap and believe him, you're a bigger idiot than him.

4 million Lisk on first day of ICO and now under 200k - how is this possible?

As per the current BTC invested in the ICO your holdings should still be around 2 million Lisk.

THERE IS A FIXED 85M LISK BEING SPLIT PROPORTIONALLY BETWEEN A RISING NUMBER OF DONORS.  

THEIR ARRIVAL REDUCES YOUR OWNERSHIP SHARE.  

THEIR MONEY KEEPS THE VALUE OF YOUR REDUCED OWNERSHIP SHARE AT YOUR ORIGINAL DONATION VALUE.  

AS YOUR SHARE GOES DOWN,  THE SATOSHI PRICE GOES UP TO COMPENSATE.

YOU LOSE NOTHING!

But.....

You could 'theoretically' end up owning only 1 LISK per BTC if there's enough money invested!!

[Vega]

You could 'theoretically' end up owning only 1 LISK per BTC if there's enough money invested!!

You couldn't actually, as there is only 15 million BTC in circulation and the ICO has 85 million Lisk.
Theoretically.

[ozax1]

My predict is in opening Lisk value 0.01$ on exchange, but first day it's drop 0.006$ cause first investors sell their Lisks after1 month later it is again 0.01$, maybe 6 months later you make double your money.

[StinkyLover]

You could 'theoretically' end up owning only 1 LISK per BTC if there's enough money invested!!

You couldn't actually, as there is only 15 million BTC in circulation and the ICO has 85 million Lisk.
Theoretically.

I stand corrected... theoretically!

[MalReynolds]

You could 'theoretically' end up owning only 1 LISK per BTC if there's enough money invested!!

You couldn't actually, as there is only 15 million BTC in circulation and the ICO has 85 million Lisk.
Theoretically.

I stand corrected... theoretically!

I love theoretical discussions.  One always learns much at the edges of the possible.  

In a perfect world, all current BTC owners would donate all their BTC to buy Lisk in the next 16 days.  This 15M BTC would "buy" 85M Lisk.  So every person that donated 1 BTC would get 85/15 = 5.66 Lisk.  Each Lisk would then have a satoshi value of 100,000,000 / 5.66 = 17.667 million satoshi.  In this scenario a single Lisk would have a value in USD of (17.667M / 100.000M) * 422 USD / BTC = $74.55 .

I dream of this day.

From the daily totals so far, we are going to have to really pick up the donation pace to hit the above scenario:  

Day 1&2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Donated BTC 801 44 132 109 190 107 63 69 113

[bakedrice]

8,000,000 LISK for the Lisk core team.
The Lisk core team will receive 8,000,000 LISK.



How will this be split among the Lisk Core Team? How many people are in the core team?

[ifightformerkel]

What do you think, at what Marketcap we will see LISK

1. at the Start
2. after 1 Monath
3. after 1 year

?

[LiskHQ]

8,000,000 LISK for the Lisk core team.
The Lisk core team will receive 8,000,000 LISK.

How will this be split among the Lisk Core Team? How many people are in the core team?

50:50 for Olivier and Max. (i.e. 4M to Olivier, 4M to Max)

The exchanges does not seem to accept any crypti address as a valid address .
Anyone else have this issue

You can't send Crypti from an exchange (like Poloniex), only from your wallet. The address you specify needs to have a public key. That means its balance had to be over 0 at one point in the past.

[JanDzban]

8,000,000 LISK for the Lisk core team.
The Lisk core team will receive 8,000,000 LISK

I hope that amount of 8,000,000 for core team also decrease when BTC ICO deposit increase (?)

[ifightformerkel]

I have open a new thread, because nobody want to answer me. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1386914.0

[poornamelessme]

So, BTC value of investors share does NOT change.

However, the BTC value of the 8,000,000 Lisk for Devs share has gone up from $0 to $250,000

Investors have seriously got the short hand of the stick in this ICO.

Question I'd have for you is ... do you believe devs of a coin should be compensated for their work? If yes, how much do you think they should make?

Right now every Lisk owner has $0. Nobody has sold a coin that doesn't exist yet. But let's say the devs share is worth $250K when the market opens. Okay, so the two devs make 125K (assuming they sell immediately, btc price remain stable). Or basically what a good programmer makes in a year or so.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather devs make their money in an upfront manner by stating how much coin they are getting, vs the other way devs usually make their money (pre-mines, instamines, ICO manipulation). Nobody should fool themselves into thinking devs do this for fun, or they don't try to make money from their endeavor.

The simple fact remains, if devs for a coin are active, ICO funds are used to market/develop a coin, everyone usually wins.... devs + investors (well, until whales do their pump/dump thing, but that is later on).

[MalReynolds]

So, BTC value of investors share does NOT change.  However, the BTC value of the 8,000,000 Lisk for Devs share has gone up from $0 to $250,000

Investors have seriously got the short hand of the stick in this ICO.

Question I'd have for you is ... do you believe devs of a coin should be compensated for their work? If yes, how much do you think they should make?

Right now every Lisk owner has $0. Nobody has sold a coin that doesn't exist yet. But let's say the devs share is worth $250K when the market opens. Okay, so the two devs make 125K (assuming they sell immediately, btc price remain stable). Or basically what a good programmer makes in a year or so.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather devs make their money in an upfront manner by stating how much coin they are getting, vs the other way devs usually make their money (pre-mines, instamines, ICO manipulation). Nobody should fool themselves into thinking devs do this for fun, or they don't try to make money from their endeavor.

The simple fact remains, if devs for a coin are active, ICO funds are used to market/develop a coin, everyone usually wins.... devs + investors (well, until whales do their pump/dump thing, but that is later on).

Max and Olivier have done a hell of a lot of work already in putting together a social structure and a software tool structure for Lisk.  They deserve good pay for that good work.  Period.

And I for one do not mind their being highly incentivized to get rich if Lisk demand goes up drastically.  My Lisk holdings will go up by the same percentage factor as theirs after the end of the ICO and coin launch.

[poornamelessme]

Crypti Platform is MIT license, so anyone can clone it, call it something else, then start another ICO... perhaps it'll be a better ICO if investors get 99% instead of 85%

First off, I am happy to have a conversation with you, if you please post like a normal human... meaning just use a regular font and bright colors are not needed. Giants fonts/bright colors just scream 'troll'. It doesn't make your points any more valid than if someone starting screaming their arguments.

And yep, we all know where Lisk originates from. It's a fork of XCR, and the two devs who forked it were very active over on the XCR side of things. It's not like 2 strangers decided to fork it. I didn't follow XCR for some time, so don't know how long they worked over there, but assume it was some time... therefore they'd have every right to fork the coin if they felt they could improve things.

The value in the coin over another clone would be in the team behind it, ICO money used for marketing, and I believe even the lead dev of XCR has agreed to be an adviser on the coin. Lisk will be the new XCR. If other devs wish to clone it, so be it, but they won't have those same advantages.

[poornamelessme]

Of course he'd become an advisor... He's got lot of Crypti to lose.

And your point being what exactly, that the original XCR coder wishes to support Lisk, so he makes money? I mean, so what? Of course he wants to make money, it's just more of an incentive for him to help Lisk increase in value. If he makes money, so does every investor.

[MalReynolds]

Crypti Platform is MIT license, so anyone can clone it, call it something else, then start another ICO... perhaps it'll be a better ICO if investors get 99% instead of 85%

Let's explore your thinking here in more depth.  

So we've got Lisk, run by Max and Olivier (LiskHQ and Karmacoma).  Ten days into its very-successful-so-far ICO, Lisk has an effective market cap of $1.2M - check the spreadsheets.  In the driver's seat of Lisk are  two guys who are setting up a Lisk Foundation to fund further development of Lisk after ICO.   They are setting aside 15% of the market cap or 1.2M * 0.15 = $180,000 which is supposed to fund and incentivize additional efforts to improve Lisk beyond the $721K development fund.  This 15% gets split into two parts.  They are splitting 8% of the market cap to themselves as founder rewards, so they are each getting founder-reward Lisk currently worth $1.2M * 0.04 = $48,000 each.  They are also setting aside 7% of the market cap tworth $1.2M * 0.07 = $84,000 to give to others as bounties and consulting fees after Lisk launch.

And we've got OtherLisk, run by Blockchainr.  Ten days into its very-successful-so-far ICO, OtherLisk has an effective market cap of $1.2M - check the spreadsheets.  In the driver's seat of OtherLisk is one guy who is generously limiting his founder reward to 1% for starting OtherLisk, so the other investors in Otherlisk can increase their holdings in this coin by only 14% compared to Lisk.   Blockchainr is thus limiting his own personal founder reward to $1.2M * 0.01 = $12,000.  Blockchainr is also setting aside zero OtherLisk and thus $0 to give to others as bounties and consulting fees after OtherLisk launch.

After Lisk launch, if Max and Olivier work hard to double the market value of Lisk, then their founder's reward holdings will go up to $96,000 each.   Thus they BOTH have an personal bonus incentive of $48,000 to work hard and double the market value of Lisk.  In addition to the $720K dev budget, they also have an extra $84,000 in resources they can spend on social bonuses and consultants to double Lisk market cap and achieve their $48K bonus.

After OtherLisk launch, if Blockchainr works hard to double the market value of OtherLisk, then his founder's reward holdings will go up to $24,000.   Thus he has an personal bonus incentive of $12,000 to work hard and double the market value of OtherLisk.  Except for  the $720K dev budget, Blockchainr has no other money he can spend on social bonuses and consultants to double OtherLisk market cap and achieve his $12K bonus.

So...be honest.  

Which coin will probably get more donations , Lisk or OtherLisk?

Who will have more motivation to put in the (identical) amount of hard work required to double the market value of Lisk/OtherLisk:  Max& Olivier, or Blockchainr?

Who has more resources available to double the market value of Lisk/OtherLisk:  Max& Olivier, or Blockchainr?

Are 14% greater coin holdings by donors of OtherLisk enough compensation for them to accept having only one core dev (instead of two), who is four times less motivated than his Lisk rivals, and has no additional social / consulting funds at his disposal to further promote Otherlisk?