[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[MaGNeT]

Any news on BTER? I have a friend who is stuck there - I'm trying to help him exit BTER so he can take part in the crowd sale. Look's like the BTER XCR hot wallet is empty and that they have given up on doing anything to help.

Thx!

Sorry... The only thing I know about BTER is: don't use it... but that's too late for him...

[rlh]

I cannot stress this enough-- do not touch BTER, ever.  They were "hacked" over a year ago and lost nearly all of their BTC funding from their cold storage, and supposedly funds from many other coins.  I am shocked that they stayed open but after a long time of observing their behavior, my hunch is that they keep their doors open to raise funds from trading but are only support Chinese speaking users.  This is because they can afford to ignore all international users but if they don't take care of their domestic users, their is a much higher chance of litigation.

You cannot withdraw funds from BTER with most (if not all) cryptos.  If you have funds in BTER, ask around and see if there is a moderately traded coin that is withdrawable.  If yes, dump all of your coins for BTC/CNY and then buy into that other coin. Then you can send those funds to a workable exchange.  This will likely incur a huge loss but getting some of your funds back is better than none at all.

I feel bad for anyone who has found BTER believing they are a legit service.  Their lack of support and shutting off withdrawals make them nothing but a fraudulent organization.

[poornamelessme]

Any news on BTER? I have a friend who is stuck there - I'm trying to help him exit BTER so he can take part in the crowd sale. Look's like the BTER XCR hot wallet is empty and that they have given up on doing anything to help.

Thx!

Only thing I can suggest, which is a lousy option, is if he has a stuck withdrawal, have him cancel it, and try to sell the XCR (probably at a loss, certainly less than ICO prices). XCR won't come out, but BTC will (or at least did a couple of weeks ago).

[MalReynolds]

btw .. The only thing I know about this project is that it is Ethereum with a twist (javascript instead of solidity).
I hope the devs do understand that that would not really be enough .... ..
Ethereum can easily add a javascript compiler into the bytecode

From a previous post a few pages back

LISK HOLDS THE FOLLOWING ADVANTAGES OVER ETHERIUM:

Javascript language simplicity vs Solidity language complexity

100,000+ JavaScript programmers vs. few Solidity programmers

Single hash generated  vs. trillions of valid but discarded hashes generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime

Cooperative, efficient blockchain generation vs. competitive, wasteful blockchain generation

Stable roundtable clockwork forging vs. unsustainable, exponentially growing free-for-all mining

Dapps on individual sidechains vs. dapps on bloated mainchain

Min of 2-4 to max of 101 cheap $35 Pi2 / $9 CHIP microcomputers needed for each sidechain backbone vs. large, unlimited numbers of expensive GPU systems needed for mainchain backbone

Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required

[Splatters]

btw .. The only thing I know about this project is that it is Ethereum with a twist (javascript instead of solidity).
I hope the devs do understand that that would not really be enough .... ..
Ethereum can easily add a javascript compiler into the bytecode

From a previous post a few pages back

LISK HOLDS THE FOLLOWING ADVANTAGES OVER ETHERIUM:

Javascript language simplicity vs Solidity language complexity

100,000+ JavaScript programmers vs. few Solidity programmers

Single hash generated  vs. trillions of valid but discarded hashes generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime

Cooperative, efficient blockchain generation vs. competitive, wasteful blockchain generation

Stable roundtable clockwork forging vs. unsustainable, exponentially growing free-for-all mining

Dapps on individual sidechains vs. dapps on bloated mainchain

Min of 2-4 to max of 101 cheap $35 Pi2 / $9 CHIP microcomputers needed for each sidechain backbone vs. large, unlimited numbers of expensive GPU systems needed for mainchain backbone

Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required

well lisk has all the right card to become huge, but nothing will happen fast

[MalReynolds]

well lisk has all the right card to become huge, but nothing will happen fast

LOL.  Max and Olivier announced the existence of Lisk to everybody else in the whole world on Jan 30, only 37 days ago.  To go from announcement of a brand new forked coin to a $1.1M+ and growing cash development fund in only 37 days -  things are happening really fast from my point of view....

[Splatters]

well lisk has all the right card to become huge, but nothing will happen fast

LOL.  Max and Olivier announced the existence of Lisk to everybody else in the whole world on Jan 30, only 37 days ago.  To go from announcement of a brand new forked coin to a $1.1M+ and growing cash development fund in only 37 days -  things are happening really fast from my point of view....

I meat the future of the coin, rising in price and dapps development, they were already experienced in what they're doing, so announce and launch is not the long part of the work. After the ICO we will see how long it will take to grow.

[chrisvl]

Can someone send me some testnet coins 16434191701053576516L

[rezilient]

If only there was a fast forward button.

[GoldenEye]

Can someone send me some testnet coins 16434191701053576516L

You can use the faucet:
https://faucet.lisk.io/

[mr001]

I can't understand this spreadsheet.
Please, give me an example.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iOEdaRnBmSAO5miW7xYheeYUgo5wL9l9BONw6x21nQg/edit#gid=1360974801

[chesthing]

C'mon. An ETH ripoff with a failed coin takeover on the heels of a huge ETH pump. Sigh.

[Alexthesalamander]

Please stop this ICO now!! My lisk is like 1/4 of what it was 2 weeks ago!

[chesthing]

It's gonna be worth a lot less than that once this mess hits exchanges.
I wouldn't buy this shit if it was free.

[cannabanana]

It's gonna be worth a lot less than that once this mess hits exchanges.

I was going to say something mean about your mom and 1 lisk but hey, why hate right? lol, turd.

[chesthing]

Could you please inform me about what price ico crypti was and what was its higher price. I know it's not all about the price, but I know even that people buy crypto even for making profit, so price is important.

750 BTC was collected. The ICO was capped, or it would've been much more.
It was long ago, but i think launch price was around 800 sat, the highest was somewhere close to 3000 i believe. I think it would've kept going higher, but a scalability issue was discovered with the original consensus mechanism. A big chunk of the crypti code had to be redone, resulting in low prices and low volume after a few months.

Here's the Crypti price history, click on "all".

https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_xcr

Crypti has evolved.  Its original focus was ten-second block time to support merchants that needed fast confirmation times using "Crypti - The Coin For Commerce!".    Crypti was the first cryptocoin written in JavaScript / node.js (and thus not a Bircoin clone), and the key point of cooperative forging with no need for expensive miners was there from the beginning.  Crypti worked great in a testbed with 50 nodes.  But when Crypti went live and tried to scale to a larger number of nodes, it failed.  Turns out too many nodes cannot synchronize with each other in ten seconds.  The merchant / commerce focus was dropped and Crypti became a science project to perfect something called "Proof of Time" (PoT) - infinite nodes synchronizing within ten seconds to determine who had the longest uptime.  PoT ultimately failed and Crypti was "patched / frozen" into the current fixed number 101 delegate roundtable with ten second blocktime, which works fine.  The devs looked at each other and said "Now what?" - and in mid-to late 2015 a completely different software pivot to add sidechains / dapps was made.  

Crypti sidechains / dapps work really, really  well.  We shoulda been working on that all along.  

So...most of original 750 BTC Crypti tech dev fund was blown on BTC depreciation and  the PoT failure.  But not all the funds were gone before some cool sidechain / dapp tech was developed that will now live on as Lisk.

How much are they paying you to shill this shit? or are you one of the 2 kids puttin' this show on?

[gospring]

Lisk	.     Develop Decentralized Applications & Sidechains in JavaScript with Lisk!     Website | Blog | BTT Thread | Chat - Be part of the decentralized application movement!

[MalReynolds]

I can't understand this spreadsheet.
Please, give me an example.

Ok, here we go.  

In this ICO there are two kinds of coins that can be donated:  XCR (Crypti) and BTC (Bitcoin).  XCR is "old money" that was already donated in mid-2014 and funded the code base (Version 0.5.5) that Lisk will deploy in April.  BTC is "new money" that is creating a cash pool to fund further development beyond Version 0.5.5.  

These two coins have to be treated differently.  

XCR is valued at a fixed fair market price of 1300 satoshi per XCR, which is roughly what you would find if you went to the Poloniex exchange where Crypti has been trading since Sept 2014.  You can't trade Lisk one-per-one for Crypti because only 85M Lisk is being given out in the Lisk ICO and there are 100M Crypti.  So you have to trade the Crypti in at 1300 satoshi each for Lisk.  Another way of saying this is every 1M XCR is worth 13 BTC.  

BTC donations are complicated because there are bonus factors of 15%, 10%, 5% and 0% given depending on which week you donate.  

Thus ACTUAL BTC donations (in green) have to be modified into "EFFECTIVE" BTC totals (in orange) that have the appropriate bonus added.  Similarly, the XCR has to be converted to "EFFECTIVE" BTC at 13 BTC per 1M XCR (in blue).  

So as of March 8 at 1AM Universal Coordinated Time (UTC), we see that:

42.9 XCR have been donated so far, valued at 42.9 * 13 = 557.7 BTC (blue / orange)

1350 BTC were donated the first week of the ICO, valued with bonus at 1350 * 1.15 = 1552.5 BTC (green / orange)

1300 BTC were donated the second week of the ICO, valued with bonus at 1350 * 1.10 = 1430.0 BTC (green / orange)

87.25 BTC have been donated so far in the third week of the ICO, valued with bonus at 87.25 * 1.05 = 91.6 BTC (green / orange)

So a total of 1350.00 +1300.00 +87.25 = 2737.25 (green) ACTUAL NEW BTC have been donated so far.  This BTC forms the "Lisk Development Cash-On-Hand" fund to finance new Lisk code development.   This cash amount is found by multiplying actual BTC by the USD/BTC exchange rate from coinmarketcap.com.  So 2737.25 * 410.72 = $ 1,124,243  available to hire programmers to further develop Lisk.

Now to answer the top question of the spreadsheet:  I gave them one BTC, how many thousand Lisk am I gonna get?   The question is highlighted in yellow, so follow the yellow stripe to the red number : 23.4 thousand Lisk will be given out for every BTC that is DONATED IN THE LAST WEEK WITH 0% BONUS.  If you donated your BTC in the FIRST week, you will get 15% more Lisk or 23.4 * 1.15 = 26.9 thousand Lisk.  

How do you know this is right?  Because the total Lisk to be distributed is a fixed 85,000,000, and 85,000,000 / 3631.8 = 23,404.  The 3631.8 (the dark orange number) is NOT the ACTUAL BTC, it is the "EFFECTIVE" BTC total donated that has all the XCR fixed conversion and BTC early donation bonuses mixed in.

So, if nobody donated anything else except for one last BTC receiving no bonus at one minute before the ICO ended, then that person donating that last no-bonus BTC would get 23,404 Lisk.

The problem is, the ICO goes on for another two weeks.  More people are going to come in, some with more XCR, some with BTC at 5% bonus and some the last week with BTC at 0 % bonus.  The Lisk being given out is fixed at 85M, so if more people come to claim some of it, the share handed out has got to be reduced even more from what it is now.  All the numbers in the light yellow area are just what the reduced amounts are going to be at various scenarios of future XCR and BTC donations.  

Say more BTC is donated for a final amount of 2900 actual BTC donated by the last day of the ICO.  Then the Lisk given out for one BTC will be 22,400 per BTC, not the current value of 23,400.  

Or say only one last BTC is donated on the last day of the ICO, but all the XCR gets turned in, all 100M of it worth an equivalent 1300BTC.   Then the guy that turned in that last BTC will get 19,400 Lisk instead of the current 22,400.  

There are an infinite number of BTC / XCR donation combinations that can occur between now and the end of the ICO.  The spreadsheet lists not only the current scenario as a red number, but all the other potential scenarios as other declining numbers.  

So why show so many possibilities when only one will occur?  So people can understand the process, and in particular, to show that their final value of Lisk received is variable depending on who else shows up.

The other bottom satoshi chart shows how much the value of Lisk has to go up to match the decline in share holdings to keep the donation value constant.  For every entry in one spreadsheet there is an entry in the other.  They are a matched pair that work together to insure that nobody gains or loses money during the ICO.  

THE VALUE OF A DONATION IS HELD CONSTANT DURING THE ICO NO MATTER HOW LOW YOUR LISK HOLDING SHARE GOES.

On the last day of the ICO, the red Satoshi value in the yellow highlighted area is the "fair market starting value" at an exchange where Lisk can be bought or sold.  

What will ACTUALLY happen on Day One of exchange sales of Lisk...well, that will be interesting to see.

[MalReynolds]

How much are they paying you to shill this shit? or are you one of the 2 kids puttin' this show on?

Hey, it's just somthin' to do while I kill time until the next meeting with my parole officer.

[cannabanana]

I can't understand this spreadsheet.
Please, give me an example.

Ok, here we go.  

In this ICO there are two kinds of coins that can be donated:  XCR (Crypti) and BTC (Bitcoin).  XCR is "old money" that was already donated in mid-2014 and funded the code base (Version 0.5.5) that Lisk will deploy in April.  BTC is "new money" that is creating a cash pool to fund further development beyond Version 0.5.5.  

These two coins have to be treated differently.  

XCR is valued at a fixed fair market price of 1300 satoshi per XCR, which is roughly what you would find if you went to the Poloniex exchange where Crypti has been trading since Sept 2014.  You can't trade Lisk one-per-one for Crypti because only 85M Lisk is being given out in the Lisk ICO and there are 100M Crypti.  So you have to trade the Crypti in at 1300 satoshi each for Lisk.  Another way of saying this is every 1M XCR is worth 13 BTC.  

BTC donations are complicated because there are bonus factors of 15%, 10%, 5% and 0% given depending on which week you donate.  

Thus ACTUAL BTC donations (in green) have to be modified into "EFFECTIVE" BTC totals (in orange) that have the appropriate bonus added.  Similarly, the XCR has to be converted to "EFFECTIVE" BTC at 13 BTC per 1M XCR (in blue).  

So as of March 8 at 1AM Universal Coordinated Time (UTC), we see that:

42.9 XCR have been donated so far, valued at 42.9 * 13 = 557.7 BTC (blue / orange)

1350 BTC were donated the first week of the ICO, valued with bonus at 1350 * 1.15 = 1552.5 BTC (green / orange)

1300 BTC were donated the second week of the ICO, valued with bonus at 1350 * 1.10 = 1430.0 BTC (green / orange)

87.25 BTC have been donated so far in the third week of the ICO, valued with bonus at 87.25 * 1.05 = 91.6 BTC (green / orange)

So a total of 1350.00 +1300.00 +87.25 = 2737.25 (green) ACTUAL NEW BTC have been donated so far.  This BTC forms the "Lisk Development Cash-On-Hand" fund to finance new Lisk code development.   This cash amount is found by multiplying actual BTC by the USD/BTC exchange rate from coinmarketcap.com.  So 2737.25 * 410.72 = $ 1,124,243  available to hire programmers to further develop Lisk.

Now to answer the top question of the spreadsheet:  I gave them one BTC, how many thousand Lisk am I gonna get?   The question is highlighted in yellow, so follow the yellow stripe to the red number : 23.4 thousand Lisk will be given out for every BTC that is DONATED IN THE LAST WEEK WITH 0% BONUS.  If you donated your BTC in the FIRST week, you will get 15% more Lisk or 23.4 * 1.15 = 26.9 thousand Lisk.  

How do you know this is right?  Because the total Lisk to be distributed is a fixed 85,000,000, and 85,000,000 / 3631.8 = 23,404.  The 3631.8 (the dark orange number) is NOT the ACTUAL BTC, it is the "EFFECTIVE" BTC total donated that has all the XCR fixed conversion and BTC early donation bonuses mixed in.

So, if nobody donated anything else except for one last BTC receiving no bonus at one minute before the ICO ended, then that person donating that last no-bonus BTC would get 23,404 Lisk.

The problem is, the ICO goes on for another two weeks.  More people are going to come in, some with more XCR, some with BTC at 5% bonus and some the last week with BTC at 0 % bonus.  The Lisk being given out is fixed at 85M, so if more people come to claim some of it, the share handed out has got to be reduced even more from what it is now.  All the numbers in the light yellow area are just what the reduced amounts are going to be at various scenarios of future XCR and BTC donations.  

Say more BTC is donated for a final amount of 2900 actual BTC donated by the last day of the ICO.  Then the Lisk given out for one BTC will be 22,400 per BTC, not the current value of 23,400.  

Or say only one last BTC is donated on the last day of the ICO, but all the XCR gets turned in, all 100M of it worth an equivalent 1300BTC.   Then the guy that turned in that last BTC will get 19,400 Lisk instead of the current 22,400.  

There are an infinite number of BTC / XCR donation combinations that can occur between now and the end of the ICO.  The spreadsheet lists not only the current scenario as a red number, but all the other potential scenarios as other declining numbers.  

So why show so many possibilities when only one will occur?  So people can understand the process, and in particular, to show that their final value of Lisk received is variable depending on who else shows up.

The other bottom satoshi chart shows how much the value of Lisk has to go up to match the decline in share holdings to keep the donation value constant.  For every entry in one spreadsheet there is an entry in the other.  They are a matched pair that work together to insure that nobody gains or loses money during the ICO.  

THE VALUE OF A DONATION IS HELD CONSTANT DURING THE ICO NO MATTER HOW LOW YOUR LISK HOLDING SHARE GOES.

On the last day of the ICO, the red Satoshi value in the yellow highlighted area is the "fair market starting value" at an exchange where Lisk can be bought or sold.  

What will ACTUALLY happen on Day One of exchange sales of Lisk...well, that will be interesting to see.

dude, you like typing way too much.