Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[Davian144]

The decision has been made Bagnaia is double world champion, unfortunately decided by a crash, but Bagnaia is now fixed world champion, no matter what happens.

Accidents from other riders are something that does not need to be discussed because each rider has different abilities in carrying out today's race. Because basically Bagnaia, who started the race in pole position, was able to finish in first position, so that Bagnaia won the world championship today, which was absolutely due to his own efforts. If you think about accidents, there were indeed many riders who crashed today and made mistakes like Brad Binder did when he was leading the race. Likewise with Maverick Vinales yesterday, who perhaps didn't realize that his motorbike engine had exploded, so he was penalized today by dropping several positions, making Bagnaia the pole position.

Accidents are part of racing and I think Martin crashed out because he was too emotional at the start of the race.
I said yesterday that calm is not only for Bagnaia but for Martin it is also very important.
Whatever the reason, Bagnaia has broken the myth of using number 1 on a motorbike in the 2023 MotoGP championship.

Jorge Martin was really emotional so he failed to control himself so he appeared very persistent today and made a mistake because he touched the back of Bagnaia's motorbike on the third lap at the first corner, causing him (Martin) to drop to eighth position. Apart from that, Martin, who was impatient, also made the mistake of ramming Marquez's motorbike from behind, causing both of them to leave the race track. And today Pecco Bagnaia has done something quite extraordinary and also quite spectacular by starting the race in first position, and finishing in first position and celebrating his second world champion in the premier class and also his third overall. Now curse number 1 has been refuted and congratulations to Pecco Bagnaia who has successfully won the main MotoGP class back to back.

[coinlocket$]

Ferrari ended in 3rd spot in the leaderboard.

Not sure it is a bad thing, they will get less money as prize but more hours in the lab for testing

[retreat]

Ferrari ended in 3rd spot in the leaderboard.

Not sure it is a bad thing, they will get less money as prize but more hours in the lab for testing

Well, that's too bad for the Ferrari strategy team, as usual they always work slowly and make a lot of blunders. Even when Charles desperately defended his position, they couldn't think of the best way so that at least Sainz wouldn't fall into the worst place and be disqualified. If they work properly, perhaps they will get second place, as their points are only narrowly behind Mercedes.
At this point I hope that Vasseur in the next season can change their strategy team, even Charles has a much better strategy compared to their strategy team, it's very funny.

[püsür]

Ferrari ended in 3rd spot in the leaderboard.

Not sure it is a bad thing, they will get less money as prize but more hours in the lab for testing

Well, that's too bad for the Ferrari strategy team, as usual they always work slowly and make a lot of blunders. Even when Charles desperately defended his position, they couldn't think of the best way so that at least Sainz wouldn't fall into the worst place and be disqualified. If they work properly, perhaps they will get second place, as their points are only narrowly behind Mercedes.
At this point I hope that Vasseur in the next season can change their strategy team, even Charles has a much better strategy compared to their strategy team, it's very funny.

Ferrari is a complete disappointment. We miss their legendary days. Leclerc, although not as much of a winner as Sainz, showed that he is open to improvement. His attack, especially in the last part of the season, combined with Sainz's bad luck, finished the season above Sainz, his team-mate, brother and mentor.

I think the race was a very exciting race for the ranking of pilots and the ranking of teams, and there is a subject that no one pays attention to, which I think this race will be a 1-part material for Netflix. there was an old wolf on the track who was 4th in the pilots ranking with the 5th fastest car; Alonso. He is such a great driver, he finished 7th in front of hamilton with almost the slowest car on the straight and took 4th place in the pilots classification.

[Koal-84]

The contract with the RNF Aprilia Team will not be renewed due to infractions, according to the official statement:

"Repeated offences and breaches of the participation agreement that affect the public image of MotoGP".

Whatever this statement means in detail, there are now two vacant positions and the search is on for replacements for the two Aprilia bikes. In my opinion, is this also a very short-term thing, or have Dorna been planning to bring a new team into MotoGP for some time?

Knalleffekt: Dem RNF-Team werden die MotoGP-Startplätze entzogen!

[emrecemsan]

I was on Mercedes' side to take the 2nd spot in the standings in this Grand Prix to tell the truth. Because I don't think that Ferrari deserved this spot throughout the season.

Ferrari were always weak with their strategies as you have also stated. The drivers had to think of the best all the time. For example they didn't even understand what Sainz did in the Singapore Grand Prix.    Ferrari shouldn't continue with this strategy team. They are just terrible and Ferrari can't achieve anything with them even if they have the fastest car on the grid next season. I hope that Leclerc gets better as well next season because he was almost finishing behind Sainz if Sainz had a better weekend. 

[moneystery]

...
Jorge Martin was really emotional so he failed to control himself so he appeared very persistent today and made a mistake because he touched the back of Bagnaia's motorbike on the third lap at the first corner, causing him (Martin) to drop to eighth position. Apart from that, Martin, who was impatient, also made the mistake of ramming Marquez's motorbike from behind, causing both of them to leave the race track. And today Pecco Bagnaia has done something quite extraordinary and also quite spectacular by starting the race in first position, and finishing in first position and celebrating his second world champion in the premier class and also his third overall. Now curse number 1 has been refuted and congratulations to Pecco Bagnaia who has successfully won the main MotoGP class back to back.

that's right, martin was too aggressive and impatient which caused him to crash with marquez. if he could at least slow down a bit and not be too aggressive, well at least he could finish this race, but unfortunately he was gambling with something he couldn't win from the start.

this will be an important lesson for martin that his impatience and aggressiveness could be a disaster for him. he can learn from pecco that calm and patience are the keys to becoming world champion.

but i applaud that his team still supported him and gave him encouragement after the crash. they understand the pressure that martin is facing and giving him encouragement can make him move on from this season and can improve his performance in the next season.

[FanEagle]

Ferrari ended in 3rd spot in the leaderboard.

Not sure it is a bad thing, they will get less money as prize but more hours in the lab for testing

Ferrari has a "ferrari rule" that makes the F1 give them insane amount of money, it was 60 million dollars a year last time I checked, to keep them in the game. The idea was that unless f1 gives them that kind of extra money, they would not be able to sustain it, and leave. Which is fine, there are other teams that have left before and Ferrari could leave too, right?

Well, f1 decided that ferrari has a huge name and it makes the whole league earn more, so it works to keep ferrari in the league by paying them more, because it allows other teams to earn more as well, may sound unfair, but if other teams leave, the league wouldn't lose that many fans, but if ferrari leaves, the whole league would crumble and lost more money than they are paying to ferrari. This is why it's fine for them to be third, it allows them to get a lot more tunnel time, be better, and still make a lot more than the second place as money too because they are getting that added money.

[coinlocket$]

Ferrari has a "ferrari rule" that makes the F1 give them insane amount of money, it was 60 million dollars a year last time I checked, to keep them in the game. The idea was that unless f1 gives them that kind of extra money, they would not be able to sustain it, and leave. Which is fine, there are other teams that have left before and Ferrari could leave too, right?

Teams are not in F1 to make money from the F1.
The balance of the F1 teams at the end of the season is around 0 earning.

Teams are in F1 for marketing their main activity, for Ferrari is selling luxury cars, and for Redbull to sell beverages.

[Davian144]

that's right, martin was too aggressive and impatient which caused him to crash with marquez. if he could at least slow down a bit and not be too aggressive, well at least he could finish this race, but unfortunately he was gambling with something he couldn't win from the start.

That is the importance of calm and maturity in responding to anything in any championship, because any championship title will never be obtained instantly, so every rider needs to be calm and mature in facing every problem that befalls him. In today's pre-season test session I also saw Martin crash, so he has to really mature next season, especially in controlling his emotions and also in dealing with every condition that comes his way.

this will be an important lesson for martin that his impatience and aggressiveness could be a disaster for him. he can learn from pecco that calm and patience are the keys to becoming world champion.

Martin should be able to learn something like that from Marquez, who after his injury was no longer world champion, so every rider must consider patience and calm and not be too hasty in making decisions. Bagnaia himself was also calmed down by Valentino Rossi before the race started so that he really listened to Rossi this time and did not make any mistakes that could cause disaster for him. And Bagnaia wasn't even too determined to catch Miller and Binder when the two KTM riders overtook him.

but i applaud that his team still supported him and gave him encouragement after the crash. they understand the pressure that martin is facing and giving him encouragement can make him move on from this season and can improve his performance in the next season.

Almost all teams are like that, because the team also doesn't want its flagship rider to be sad for too long and now I'm watching the MotoGP test in Valencia. Today, several riders who have moved teams have experienced their new motorbikes, including this year's rookie, Pedro Acosta, who is on the Gasgas Aspar team.

[tokeweed]

Ferrari has a "ferrari rule" that makes the F1 give them insane amount of money, it was 60 million dollars a year last time I checked, to keep them in the game. The idea was that unless f1 gives them that kind of extra money, they would not be able to sustain it, and leave. Which is fine, there are other teams that have left before and Ferrari could leave too, right?

Teams are not in F1 to make money from the F1.
The balance of the F1 teams at the end of the season is around 0 earning.

Teams are in F1 for marketing their main activity, for Ferrari is selling luxury cars, and for Redbull to sell beverages.

Yup, that's true for the companies behind the teams.  But for the teams themselves that poured blood, sweat and tears in trying to win races, winning the prize money for the team could also be a boost for them.  Could be a morale boost too.  Who doesn't like winning some money?  Lol. 

But yeah...  I'm not really sure how employee bonuses go in these teams but more money, more money in their pockets, I guess.

And just 95 days to go before the first race of the next season guys.  We'll be posting Formula Dank meme and laughing before you know it. 

[Koal-84]

Martin should be able to learn something like that from Marquez, who after his injury was no longer world champion, so every rider must consider patience and calm and not be too hasty in making decisions. Bagnaia himself was also calmed down by Valentino Rossi before the race started so that he really listened to Rossi this time and did not make any mistakes that could cause disaster for him. And Bagnaia wasn't even too determined to catch Miller and Binder when the two KTM riders overtook him.

The big difference is that Martin had to win at all costs, so he was over-motivated and tried to break the mould. In addition, Bagnaia is already world champion and was in the lead in the world championship.

I think if Martin had overtaken Bagnaia and the KTM riders had no problems with the front tyre (OK Miller often crash), the result would have been the same:

Martin
Binder
Bagnaia

would have been possible, which would also have meant the world championship title for Bagnaia.

[Distraction]

About the goals of F1 teams I would also agree with you. There is no such thing that you can make profit in this sport. There is a cost cap that you have to obey. Throughout the season teams make developments a lot not only for the current season but also they are doing research for next season. This means spending a lot of money for only the development.

When drivers crash their cars this means extra expenditure for teams. For example Ferrari had to spend a lot more money than nearly all other teams because of this.

Sainz is the second driver in the list of drivers who cost their teams a lot of money this season.  

[SquallLeonhart]

One of the most dominant cars that was ever built is now retired. I mean a total of 22 races, and 21 of those races were won by Red Bull, 19 of them were won by Max himself, with 2 coming from Perez at Azerbeijan and Jeddah. That is the most dominant car I can think of, and that is saying something considering Mercedes had a car that won like 7 years in a row or something if I am not mistaken. It is by far the biggest points per race for a driver as well, it's unreal how much Max and Red Bull achieved this season.

The question has to be asked, will Max and Red Bull will be this dominant again next year? Obviously they will not have enough time to work on the car like other teams who did worse, but at the same time they didn't last year too and still won this much.

[Davian144]

The big difference is that Martin had to win at all costs, so he was over-motivated and tried to break the mould. In addition, Bagnaia is already world champion and was in the lead in the world championship.

I think if Martin had overtaken Bagnaia and the KTM riders had no problems with the front tyre (OK Miller often crash), the result would have been the same:

Martin
Binder
Bagnaia

would have been possible, which would also have meant the world championship title for Bagnaia.

As I said before, Bagnaia doesn't need another podium to celebrate being world champion this season, because Bagnaia just needs to finish fourth and can win the world title this season even if Martin wins that race. But it was a shame for Martin because the conditions were not like that so Bagnaia really performed extraordinary in the last round by starting the race in pole position and finishing in first position. So Bagnaia celebrated his world championship this time with great joy and was speechless.

[swogerino]

The big difference is that Martin had to win at all costs, so he was over-motivated and tried to break the mould. In addition, Bagnaia is already world champion and was in the lead in the world championship.

I think if Martin had overtaken Bagnaia and the KTM riders had no problems with the front tyre (OK Miller often crash), the result would have been the same:

Martin
Binder
Bagnaia

would have been possible, which would also have meant the world championship title for Bagnaia.

As I said before, Bagnaia doesn't need another podium to celebrate being world champion this season, because Bagnaia just needs to finish fourth and can win the world title this season even if Martin wins that race. But it was a shame for Martin because the conditions were not like that so Bagnaia really performed extraordinary in the last round by starting the race in pole position and finishing in first position. So Bagnaia celebrated his world championship this time with great joy and was speechless.

Bagnaia did exceptionally well to achieve that in the last race,even in Italy they are showing him as a World Champion already in the publicity they make for TIM-Telecom Italia.Martin I think had made his choice the moment he signed a contract with Honda and most likely his head is already there,if Honda builds a great bike he would have the honor to ride it and become World Champion with a Honda bike,something he did not achieve with the Ducatti team he is racing so far.

One thing is sure without racing until March it will be a very boring period.

[Koal-84]

As I said before, Bagnaia doesn't need another podium to celebrate being world champion this season, because Bagnaia just needs to finish fourth and can win the world title this season even if Martin wins that race. But it was a shame for Martin because the conditions were not like that so Bagnaia really performed extraordinary in the last round by starting the race in pole position and finishing in first position. So Bagnaia celebrated his world championship this time with great joy and was speechless.

Bagnai did exactly what was expected of him in the race (which is fair to a world champion), but the victory was certainly a bit of a surprise for him. Also he have noticed Martin's crash, so you can ride pressure-free afterwards as he was already world champion.

Bagnaia did exceptionally well to achieve that in the last race,even in Italy they are showing him as a World Champion already in the publicity they make for TIM-Telecom Italia.Martin I think had made his choice the moment he signed a contract with Honda and most likely his head is already there,if Honda builds a great bike he would have the honor to ride it and become World Champion with a Honda bike,something he did not achieve with the Ducatti team he is racing so far.

One thing is sure without racing until March it will be a very boring period.

When have Martin signed a contract with Honda, Marini switch to Honda? Next year's driver pairings will be as follows.



and yes it's a long time to the MotoGP start next year.

[coinlocket$]

Marquez today tested the Ducati for the fist time and the comments on the news are "impressive".

I can't find the timers but he was very fast, very fast.

Maybe he will be a contender the next year after all.

[Davian144]

Bagnaia did exceptionally well to achieve that in the last race,even in Italy they are showing him as a World Champion already in the publicity they make for TIM-Telecom Italia.Martin I think had made his choice the moment he signed a contract with Honda and most likely his head is already there,if Honda builds a great bike he would have the honor to ride it and become World Champion with a Honda bike,something he did not achieve with the Ducatti team he is racing so far.

One thing is sure without racing until March it will be a very boring period.

Martin will still race with Pramac Racing next season and the seat at factory Honda next season has been taken by Marini who moved from Mooney VR46, so Martin will still race for the same team next season with the Ducati GP24 motorbike, which is the same motorbike as motorbike on the factory Ducati team. It looks like the December to March period won't be so boring because we can watch pre-season tests and motorbike development from all manufacturers.

When have Martin signed a contract with Honda, Marini switch to Honda? Next year's driver pairings will be as follows.

and yes it's a long time to the MotoGP start next year.

Maybe what @swogerino meant was Marini, not Martin because as can be seen in the list you shared, it is also very clear that it was Marini who was on the Honda after rumors went viral before the last round of the title season. I am waiting for better developments at the two Japanese manufacturers for next season because both of them have also been given concessions by Dorna for next season. So that Honda and Yamaha can have more freedom in developing their engines.

[Koal-84]

Marquez today tested the Ducati for the fist time and the comments on the news are "impressive".

I can't find the timers but he was very fast, very fast.

Maybe he will be a contender the next year after all.

Marc seemed to feel reasonably comfortable on the Ducati and was only 0.17 tenths behind the fastest Vilares on his Aprilia, but I wouldn't take the times too seriously now, as the Ducati factory team didn't go on a time hunt at all.

1. Maverick Vinales (Aprilia) - 1:29.253 Minuten (86 Runden)
2. Brad Binder (KTM) +0,028 Sekunden (51)
3. Marco Bezzecchi (VR46-Ducati) +0,093 (62)
4. Marc Marquez (Gresini-Ducati) +0,171 (49)
5. Raul Fernandez (Aprilia) +0,263 (64)
6. Alex Marquez (Gresini-Ducati) +0,385 (56)
7. Fabio Di Giannantonio (VR46-Ducati) +0,409 (60)
8. Enea Bastianini (Ducati) +0,543 (56)
9. Jack Miller (KTM) +0,648 (62)
10. Luca Marini (Honda) +0,703 (72)
11. Francesco Bagnaia (Ducati) +0,717 (51)
12. Fabio Quartararo (Yamaha) +0,769 (63)
13. Joan Mir (Honda) +0,798 (69)
14. Augusto Fernandez (GasGas) +0,824 (72)
15. Jorge Martin (Pramac-Ducati) +0,899 (51)
16. Franco Morbidelli (Pramac-Ducati) +0,953 (69)
17. Johann Zarco (LCR-Honda) +1,030 (61)
18. Pedro Acosta (GasGas) +1,223 (70)
19. Alex Rins (Yamaha) +1,311 (54)
20. Cal Crutchlow (Yamaha) +1,512 (74)
21. Takaaki Nakagami (LCR-Honda) +1,723 (63)
22. Aleix Espargaro (Aprilia) +3,059 (17)
23. Lorenzo Savadori (Aprilia) +3,431 (27)

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