Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments

[Random-String-Symphony]

Byteball allows anybody to upload arbitrary data (like docs, pdf, pictures or whatever) on the dag chain which makes it permanently part of the database stored by all full nodes. Now - what if somebody posts criminal stuff like child porn or something and suddenly all full nodes will store this shit forever? I think we need some safeguards against such abuse. Maybe only real ID verified users should be allowed to upload data? Any ideas or thoughts on this? How to ensure legality without censorship?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I could write a viewer that turns every DaVinci picture into child porn and make the code of this viewer out of characters in the bible. The algorithm to create this code would be derived from the constitution and Einstein's theory of relativity.

[1714806677]

1714806677

[Random-String-Symphony]

It is good news for Byteball community. Byteball platform and its services have become more popular and used by more projects (maybe due to its convenience).

A new ICO on BB Platform : Worldopoly

I also look at Worldopoly, that is likely potential project which can change the gaming industry based on taking advantage of powerful blockchain hashrates). However, I will discover about the project more when I have spare time.

Worldopoly is the world’s first mobile game combining AR, AI, Geolocationing, Blockchain, and DAG.

Again, Bot Store shows us its amazing functions.

Wordopoly ICO Bot is already added to the Bot Store.

Congratulations!

I don't get how Worldopoly will use Byteball. As far as I read from their official website, Worldpoly will be using ERC-20 ETH tokens. Maybe in-game transactions? Then why get into the trouble of using ETH tokens?

They continuously use "Blockchain / DAG" everywhere in the whitepaper, so they probably haven't decided which one to use. They want it for transfer of in-game objects between players.
From the whitepaper: "we chose Ethereum as our base platform because of its customization possibilities and the constant improvements of the computing platform itself." They then go on to describe all of the drawbacks of using this kind of technology for games, they do a good job of describing why it's probably a pretty bad idea.

Mainly transactions speed, fees and irreversibility. A DAG based solution would help with the first two and they think they have figured out some kind of "safety measures" for the last one. They say they want a "risk free environment", so probably some kind of hybrid, not pure DLT. Maybe centralised first then on "commit" by player write to the Blockchain / DAG. Clever marketing will make hardly anyone care about this.

In their own words:
"ByteBall platform is not used yet so widely as Ethereum, but Byteball uses not blockchain technology, but DAG, that solves the above potential issues of Ethereum: the response time in ByteBall is less than 1 sec, the commission for making a transaction is cheaper than Ethereum’s more than in 1000 times and now is on average $ 0.0001. Until we are sure that one of the platforms is much more attractive for our users, we will support both platforms. Tokens released on one platform can be exchanged for tokens from another platform in a 1:1 ratio." [Page 33 from the WP]

Not much of a choice if you ask me, but ICO teams right now are probably too afraid to switch 100% to Byteball because of community backlash, can't just ditch Ethereum and get away with it. This will happen more and more as the serious projects start building their applications. They will find out the hard way that Ethereum doesn't scale and won't for a few years. Then you start looking at alternatives but there are almost none. Byteball is the only working platform on which you can actually build your stuff. A lot of projects never actually release anything so they don't have this problem.

The future is bright for Byteball.

[player01]

What does it mean “No active addresses found.” when recovering from the seed?

Is it because the wallet has no bytes or transactions?

[Jedgar]

Byteball allows anybody to upload arbitrary data (like docs, pdf, pictures or whatever) on the dag chain which makes it permanently part of the database stored by all full nodes. Now - what if somebody posts criminal stuff like child porn or something and suddenly all full nodes will store this shit forever? I think we need some safeguards against such abuse. Maybe only real ID verified users should be allowed to upload data? Any ideas or thoughts on this? How to ensure legality without censorship?

frankly, I didn't know about that until saw this. How could I upload and after that download arbitrary data into Byteball DAG? Please, step-by-step.

[Melody Jelly]

Byteball allows anybody to upload arbitrary data (like docs, pdf, pictures or whatever) on the dag chain which makes it permanently part of the database stored by all full nodes. Now - what if somebody posts criminal stuff like child porn or something and suddenly all full nodes will store this shit forever? I think we need some safeguards against such abuse. Maybe only real ID verified users should be allowed to upload data? Any ideas or thoughts on this? How to ensure legality without censorship?

frankly, I didn't know about that until saw this. How could I upload and after that download arbitrary data into Byteball DAG? Please, step-by-step.

With DAG you sacrifice decentralization  by removing POW and POS. Any Byteball holder can be forced to censorship and responsibility.

[oHnK]

Byteball allows anybody to upload arbitrary data (like docs, pdf, pictures or whatever) on the dag chain which makes it permanently part of the database stored by all full nodes. Now - what if somebody posts criminal stuff like child porn or something and suddenly all full nodes will store this shit forever? I think we need some safeguards against such abuse. Maybe only real ID verified users should be allowed to upload data? Any ideas or thoughts on this? How to ensure legality without censorship?

frankly, I didn't know about that until saw this. How could I upload and after that download arbitrary data into Byteball DAG? Please, step-by-step.

With DAG you sacrifice decentralization  by removing POW and POS. Any Byteball holder can be forced to censorship and responsibility.

Doesnt this mean that if anybody can be forced to censorship then those that control alot of it could be having advantage over the other? That pretty much mean that it isnt really decentralized isnt it? I kinda hard to analyze it on my own, care to explain it in short instead or is there a  link reference for it?

[scambust]

Not much of a choice if you ask me, but ICO teams right now are probably too afraid to switch 100% to Byteball because of community backlash, can't just ditch Ethereum and get away with it. This will happen more and more as the serious projects start building their applications. They will find out the hard way that Ethereum doesn't scale and won't for a few years. Then you start looking at alternatives but there are almost none. Byteball is the only working platform on which you can actually build your stuff. A lot of projects never actually release anything so they don't have this problem.

The future is bright for Byteball.

Indeed. The core functionality of Byteball is DAG which is superior to the linear blockchain. It's like comparing an uncompress image to jpeg and alike. Maybe one day Ethereum will switch to a DAG, LOL.

[fortress]

Byteball allows anybody to upload arbitrary data (like docs, pdf, pictures or whatever) on the dag chain which makes it permanently part of the database stored by all full nodes. Now - what if somebody posts criminal stuff like child porn or something and suddenly all full nodes will store this shit forever? I think we need some safeguards against such abuse. Maybe only real ID verified users should be allowed to upload data? Any ideas or thoughts on this? How to ensure legality without censorship?

frankly, I didn't know about that until saw this. How could I upload and after that download arbitrary data into Byteball DAG? Please, step-by-step.

With DAG you sacrifice decentralization  by removing POW and POS. Any Byteball holder can be forced to censorship and responsibility.

Doesnt this mean that if anybody can be forced to censorship then those that control alot of it could be having advantage over the other? That pretty much mean that it isnt really decentralized isnt it? I kinda hard to analyze it on my own, care to explain it in short instead or is there a  link reference for it?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but decentralization is not the main selling point of Byteball.
I guess there might be some censorship, but not any kind of censorship. Witnesses actions will depend on how much it affects their businesses.

Here is some quote that I found very useful:

Hi Tony, I have seen most of your interviews and presentation. I have seen many question and doude about the "witness". Many people ask question about it over and over again. I think you or your team should give a presentation just about "witness".

By the way I have a question about it. Every one ask about the "12 witnesses" but in the Byteball Witnesses monitoring service https://byteball.fr/stats.php there are more than 12, so to my underestanding there can more 12 witnessess. Let say there can be at some point 20 witnesses and it each user choose 12 out of 20 at random for confimation of the transaccion. Am I corrrect?

I think you should address the "witness" questions in a very deep presentation about it because you are getting it rid off "the minners". And in today cryptoverse miners have a lot of power, they are a multibilion industry that you are trying not use it at all.

OK, here's a little bit more about the 12 witness system Byteball uses versus PoW.

What miners do, they look at your transactions and decide, “I like this transaction and will include it, or I don’t like this transaction and won’t include it”. With witnesses, it is the reverse. It is users who look for witnesses to determine the consensus order of transactions. Witnesses don’t decide anything about individual transactions. They are expected just to be there.

12 witnesses seems low?

If you up the number of witnesses it will be much harder for users to know and recognise them all so they would just go with the "default" and not care about it much. So you have to have a number that is both safe and practical, 12 seems to fit the job. This number is large enough to protect against occasional failures but is not too large so that users can still know every witness.

And we want the witnesses to be accountable, that’s why there is a way to replace them. The way it works is that every user, with every transaction, posts a list of 12 witnesses he trusts. But we won’t have consensus if the lists posted by different users are too far apart. That’s why the lists of neighboring transactions on the DAG must differ by no more than one position. The fact that witnesses can be replaced is another difference with miners. The witnesses are accountable. If a witness loses trust of users, users immediately signal their mistrust by changing their witness lists.

Why DAG?

PoW, most notably Bitcoin has a number of drawbacks:

• Miners are gatekeepers; they have the power to include or not include your transaction. So the access to the ledger is not quite free, you have to meet the miners’ criteria for your transaction to be included in the next block.
• Miners are not accountable; they are supposed to make money, period.
• Fee market is an uncertainty; When the blocks are full, there is competition to get into the next block. Paying a higher fee supposedly increases your chances to get into the block. But a payment system which is supposed to be used in everyday business, is not a game of chance, there must be guarantees that once you send a transaction according to all the rules, which is properly signed, spends existing money, and is not a double-spend, after you send it, you can immediately disconnect and still be confident that it goes through. In blockchains, when the blocks are full, there is no certainty, no guarantees, no such thing as the right fee.
• Trade-off between security and cost; block reward is supposed to be reduced over time and eventually go to 0. This means that miner incentives from block reward will decrease and they should be replaced by fees. Which means that the system is as secure as the total amount of fees paid, and there is an uncomfortable trade-off between security and cost.
• Negative balance of resources; miners burn energy and have to pay to energy companies, outside the ecosystem. Which means that the balance between resources flowing in and out of the ecosystem is negative.
• Outside incentives are ignored; lastly, miner incentives are only inside the ecosystem. They make more money by mining honestly than by doublespending Bitcoins, that’s true under assumption that all their incentives are inside Bitcoin. If we forget about the outside world, as if it doesn’t exist. But in reality, outside incentives do exist. Even more, if there are other tokens issued on the same ledger, as it is the case on Ethereum, the block reward is still in the native currency only but now this should be balanced against doublespending not only the native currency but the other tokens too. If the tokens are worth more than the native currency, the system becomes insecure.

Text mostly taken from this excellent presentation from Tony in Zürich: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1dpbE1l4Aj8Te2_i9wjVsW48igZMhdyjKJVcWY-45qd8/edit#slide=id.p5

Highly recommended reading!

[kaicrypzen]

What does it mean “No active addresses found.” when recovering from the seed?

Is it because the wallet has no bytes or transactions?

It's been a long time since I used the recover from seed function to recover addresses with no funds or transactions, I think that's the message you get when you do such a thing. Can you say if you managed to recover your address(es)?

[BtcVolcano]

Since the beginning of start of the project I had coins and charges are farther. Then strong recession began and I sold all coins because it became terrible to hold them. And here now interestingly it is a high time buy can or as in your opinion.

[StandingTall]

Byteball allows anybody to upload arbitrary data (like docs, pdf, pictures or whatever) on the dag chain which makes it permanently part of the database stored by all full nodes. Now - what if somebody posts criminal stuff like child porn or something and suddenly all full nodes will store this shit forever? I think we need some safeguards against such abuse. Maybe only real ID verified users should be allowed to upload data? Any ideas or thoughts on this? How to ensure legality without censorship?

frankly, I didn't know about that until saw this. How could I upload and after that download arbitrary data into Byteball DAG? Please, step-by-step.

On the "Send" tab you have the option to send "Data" from the drop down menu.



After posting data (text only is allowed) it looks like this:

https://explorer.byteball.org/#QbGi4ULbmJ0jUObbcrCSbFbwc1saNqUR5+p7fTJSSfk=



From now on it's buried forever in the DAG database and will be stored by all full nodes for the end of times.

[Michail1]

What does it mean “No active addresses found.” when recovering from the seed?

Is it because the wallet has no bytes or transactions?

It means the seed you recorded (although valid) was never used.

During a recovery, it checks your addresses.  If there is no balance, it checks the next and the next.  I believe it is still 20 addresses ahead.   Nothing there, so it checks the next wallet (I believe 5 wallets).
When nothing is found, it simply stops and gives you that error.

There is a way to force checks of more, but if nothing is in the firsts, then unlikely something in the latter.  Bitcoin webwallets perform a similar check when restoring.

You sure you recorded the seed to the correct wallet?   What are you trying to actually do?

[Hhugh]

Not much of a choice if you ask me, but ICO teams right now are probably too afraid to switch 100% to Byteball because of community backlash, can't just ditch Ethereum and get away with it. This will happen more and more as the serious projects start building their applications. They will find out the hard way that Ethereum doesn't scale and won't for a few years. Then you start looking at alternatives but there are almost none. Byteball is the only working platform on which you can actually build your stuff. A lot of projects never actually release anything so they don't have this problem.

The future is bright for Byteball.

Indeed. The core functionality of Byteball is DAG which is superior to the linear blockchain. It's like comparing an uncompress image to jpeg and alike. Maybe one day Ethereum will switch to a DAG, LOL.

Byteball and it's algorithm might change the crypto world and crypto mining industry. No-mining algorithm is better option for both the crypto ecosystem, the Earth, and human society in long-term. It is something like sustainable crypto world.

These guys agree... could be an interesting ICO that gives Byteball a lot of exposure.

https://www.sustainableplatform.com/home/
http://www.sustainabletoken.io/

Edit: as long as it's legit... I haven't seen any recognition from official sources.

[ptrk]

Idea For A Sustainable Alternative To The Signature Campaign To Airdrop Remaining Bytes

I have been following Byteball for some time and I think the end of free coins just by holding the balance was the right decision. However, I do not like the new way to award coins for posts via a signature campaign. Apart from the fact that the benefit to the project should be limited, users who have high levels and probably already own Bytes are preferred. To get new users -- which should be the goal -- this way is rather not sustainable.

So I have another suggestion where everyone can participate and do something good. I have long been an active member of WorldCommunityGrid where you can leverage your free computing power for meaningful projects and research, e.g. fighting cancer and diseases, and other important things. The software of WorldCommunityGrid named BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is quick and easy to install (all major operating systems and mobile phones are supported). Anyone can set up the software in a few minutes and contribute processing power.

My idea: why do not we start a WorldCommunityGrid (WCG) Byteball team. For calculating small tasks, participants receive WCG points automatically. Via a Byteball bot, members can connect their Byteball address with their WCG username, and then receive free bytes from the bot - say, once a week - depending on the amount of WCG points earned. WCG provides a simple API with which the data can be read into the Byteball DAG via an oracle.

The effort is not big. In principle, only the bot would have to be written. I would have liked to set the task, but unfortunately I'm not a great NodeJs programmer.

If possible, the bot could also accept donations, so that the campaign could also be supported by donations and not only by the remaining bytes to be distributed. I would give a donation myself.

Do good and get bytes!
What do you think about the idea?

[Hhugh]

Hey ptrk, Good idea. I think Tony would want to see a concrete plan for the distribution of bytes to participants. Is there a fixed amount of bytes given away per time period, with the amount everyone receives being pro-rated by contributions? Or does every registered participant get a fixed amount per month? How to prevent people from joining multiple times and exploiting the distribution method (maybe only real name attestation users can participate)?

If this is pursued I might suggest that only accounts that were already registered as of this date are eligible, and each account gets a fixed amount of bytes regardless of contribution size as long as they meet a minimum threshold. This way the distribution couldn't be exploited. It is unlikely that the people who are already participating have already set up multiple accounts. And Tony does want to bring in new people into the network who aren't already plugged in (a fact that some here have a hard time accepting because it means dilution of their positions).

[Big Naturals]

Idea For A Sustainable Alternative To The Signature Campaign To Airdrop Remaining Bytes

I have been following Byteball for some time and I think the end of free coins just by holding the balance was the right decision. However, I do not like the new way to award coins for posts via a signature campaign. Apart from the fact that the benefit to the project should be limited, users who have high levels and probably already own Bytes are preferred. To get new users -- which should be the goal -- this way is rather not sustainable.

So I have another suggestion where everyone can participate and do something good. I have long been an active member of WorldCommunityGrid where you can leverage your free computing power for meaningful projects and research, e.g. fighting cancer and diseases, and other important things. The software of WorldCommunityGrid named BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is quick and easy to install (all major operating systems and mobile phones are supported). Anyone can set up the software in a few minutes and contribute processing power.

My idea: why do not we start a WorldCommunityGrid (WCG) Byteball team. For calculating small tasks, participants receive WCG points automatically. Via a Byteball bot, members can connect their Byteball address with their WCG username, and then receive free bytes from the bot - say, once a week - depending on the amount of WCG points earned. WCG provides a simple API with which the data can be read into the Byteball DAG via an oracle.

The effort is not big. In principle, only the bot would have to be written. I would have liked to set the task, but unfortunately I'm not a great NodeJs programmer.

If possible, the bot could also accept donations, so that the campaign could also be supported by donations and not only by the remaining bytes to be distributed. I would give a donation myself.

Do good and get bytes!
What do you think about the idea?

This is a great suggestion, the distribution has gotten bogged down in controversy lately, lots of toxic comments flying around over Sig campaign mistakes etc world community grid would be unambiguously good cause for BB to be associated with!

[CryptoRobert]

I was pretty disillusioned with some of the prior updates but it's cool to see this really getting back on track. There's a lot of really simple things your team can do to greatly boost the value of this, but it's cool to see a focus on the actual product/tech.

Not to derail but if anyone wants to sell some byteballs for BTC shoot me a PM.

The market doesn't seem to share your optimism though. Byteball has lost more than 80% of its value in a matter of couple of months. Other alts have been bleeding too, but the impact on Byteball seems to be disproportionately large. My hope is with the focus on the actual product, the market also realizes its potential and corrects its valuation.

Most currencies have lost 80% of their value in the past few months... it is a macro-problem of the whole crypto echosystem which is in deep bear market.

[bobq]

Text mostly taken from this excellent presentation from Tony in Zürich: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1dpbE1l4Aj8Te2_i9wjVsW48igZMhdyjKJVcWY-45qd8/edit#slide=id.p5

Highly recommended reading!

This is truly an excellent and instructive read. It should be given more audience.
I'd recomment to create also content bounties to spread the information about Byteball, which for sure would be sooo much more effective that the current Twitter bounties campaign. Who on earth is watching Twitter?
Content bounties should be given to people able to reach real audiences.

[sailthor]

Idea For A Sustainable Alternative To The Signature Campaign To Airdrop Remaining Bytes

I have been following Byteball for some time and I think the end of free coins just by holding the balance was the right decision. However, I do not like the new way to award coins for posts via a signature campaign. Apart from the fact that the benefit to the project should be limited, users who have high levels and probably already own Bytes are preferred. To get new users -- which should be the goal -- this way is rather not sustainable.

So I have another suggestion where everyone can participate and do something good. I have long been an active member of WorldCommunityGrid where you can leverage your free computing power for meaningful projects and research, e.g. fighting cancer and diseases, and other important things. The software of WorldCommunityGrid named BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is quick and easy to install (all major operating systems and mobile phones are supported). Anyone can set up the software in a few minutes and contribute processing power.

My idea: why do not we start a WorldCommunityGrid (WCG) Byteball team. For calculating small tasks, participants receive WCG points automatically. Via a Byteball bot, members can connect their Byteball address with their WCG username, and then receive free bytes from the bot - say, once a week - depending on the amount of WCG points earned. WCG provides a simple API with which the data can be read into the Byteball DAG via an oracle.

The effort is not big. In principle, only the bot would have to be written. I would have liked to set the task, but unfortunately I'm not a great NodeJs programmer.

If possible, the bot could also accept donations, so that the campaign could also be supported by donations and not only by the remaining bytes to be distributed. I would give a donation myself.

Do good and get bytes!
What do you think about the idea?

This. Distribute the rest of the bytes through POW (This is essentially what this method is - POW). Love the idea behind helping science/charity as well

[Alcibiades Agnes]

Idea For A Sustainable Alternative To The Signature Campaign To Airdrop Remaining Bytes

I have been following Byteball for some time and I think the end of free coins just by holding the balance was the right decision. However, I do not like the new way to award coins for posts via a signature campaign. Apart from the fact that the benefit to the project should be limited, users who have high levels and probably already own Bytes are preferred. To get new users -- which should be the goal -- this way is rather not sustainable.

So I have another suggestion where everyone can participate and do something good. I have long been an active member of WorldCommunityGrid where you can leverage your free computing power for meaningful projects and research, e.g. fighting cancer and diseases, and other important things. The software of WorldCommunityGrid named BOINC (Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing) is quick and easy to install (all major operating systems and mobile phones are supported). Anyone can set up the software in a few minutes and contribute processing power.

My idea: why do not we start a WorldCommunityGrid (WCG) Byteball team. For calculating small tasks, participants receive WCG points automatically. Via a Byteball bot, members can connect their Byteball address with their WCG username, and then receive free bytes from the bot - say, once a week - depending on the amount of WCG points earned. WCG provides a simple API with which the data can be read into the Byteball DAG via an oracle.

The effort is not big. In principle, only the bot would have to be written. I would have liked to set the task, but unfortunately I'm not a great NodeJs programmer.

If possible, the bot could also accept donations, so that the campaign could also be supported by donations and not only by the remaining bytes to be distributed. I would give a donation myself.

Do good and get bytes!
What do you think about the idea?

This. Distribute the rest of the bytes through POW (This is essentially what this method is - POW). Love the idea behind helping charity/s as well

we need more ideas for adoption than for distribution.