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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1230656 times)
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February 07, 2018, 04:06:39 PM
 #17101

ByteballJesus made a great video:

Jesus shames Roger Ver for sins against Bitcoin

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7vwole/jesus_shames_roger_ver_for_sins_against_bitcoin/

Please upvote!

 Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

Follow me on twitter! I'm a private Bitcoin and altcoin hodler. Giving away crypto for free on my Twitter feed! Don’t miss #TheBigGive on 25 September!
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February 07, 2018, 04:21:03 PM
 #17102

Blackbytes Bytes Exchange BEEB is offering you 1,000,000 Bytes!

Buy and sale your BlackBytes on BEEB! - http://beeb-bot.com



Here is your link to receive 1,000,000 Bytes: http://www.beeb-bot.com/textcoinclaim.php#textcoin?story-mercy-cliff-code-task-arrive-pyramid-column-palm-regular-cousin-math

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February 07, 2018, 04:34:59 PM
 #17103

ByteballJesus made a great video:

Jesus shames Roger Ver for sins against Bitcoin

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7vwole/jesus_shames_roger_ver_for_sins_against_bitcoin/

Please upvote!

 Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy

Jesus loves upvotes
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February 07, 2018, 05:23:28 PM
 #17104

No, these are reasonable users that the project is driving away by being asinine. Why on earth should users not be refunded when a project-sponsored verification fails do to technical reasons? And why is it a goal of this project to make everything user-unfriendly as possible while making public no plans for improvement? The market's trust in this project is fading because of poor leadership attitudes and I say that as someone with a lot of GB. Tony doesn't seem to care about the price of GB nor the market perception, saying exchanges and "traders" are unnecessary.

Also, will there or will there not be an aidrop in March? What will happen with all the remaining bytes?

Tony seems to care more about the project than the price.  I agree.  He wants the project to work (as I see it).   So, if the project succeeds, then the price will come.
Everyone is upset with the price; however, the price has tanked on everything - Everything.  So, be sure to look relatively at other coins as well.


Hi guys. I need help.

I installed the byteball wallet from play store. I'm not sure but i think it didn't ask me if i wanted a light or a full wallet at start, and now it keep saying syncing.....

Do the android app default to a full wallet? I want a light wallet cause my android device can't contain the entire byteball blockchain.

What i did wrong?

Thanks.

This must be another problem. There is no full wallet for Android.

Thanks for your reply.

I've found an open issue that could be the one i'm experiencing: https://github.com/byteball/byteball/issues/266

My situation is very similar cause i sent some blackbytes to the android wallet that can't sync.

Don't know what to do. If someone have hints please help.

Only lite wallet for android/ios.

If you can't sync, then you likely have TOR or some other feature installed which is blocking communication with byteball servers.

If your wallet shows syncing private payments, then it will need to be fixed.  You can send me the wallet and I will fix it for you.
- No, I will not go through the process via chat/dm.

If you have 0 bytes and 0 blackbytes then you don't have the above issue issue with a wallet that is trying to sync private payments.


Question regarding the Airdrop:
I've moved my BTC to a segwit address (starting with 3..). The chatbot gives me the following response:
Quote
Only P2PKH addresses (those that start with 1) can sign messages. You can prove ownership of xyz only by microtransaction.
My question is: How can I make such a transaction? What is the address that I've to send to?
Has anyone successfully registered a segwit address with a micro transaction and can give me some guidance? I've checked the Byteball Wiki but couldn't find the answer there.


Segwit addresses are not supported because SegWitCoin is not Bitcoin. You have to use a regular Bitcoin address for linking (the one starting with 1... ).
I have not seen Tony declare something against SegWit.
AFAIK, the reason for SegWit addresses not being supported has something to do with infrastructure in the new Bitcoin network, which at the present moment does not allow sign message.


Tony has nothing against SegWit.
Quite simply, you can't sign a transaction with the transition bot with a segwit address.  No signature.

If your intent is to claim bytes for a distribution, then move your coins to a legacy address just prior to the snapshot in order to get your claim.  There is another trick is making a transaction from your sw address, and sign via your legacy so that the bot will see both addresses as valid.  Sorry, I don't use SW, so I don't have an example to show you.  Smiley





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February 07, 2018, 05:38:17 PM
 #17105

The question for Byteball is: should we try and make this process kid-proof? My opinion is that we should not. Working with contracts is something for adults. Of course the process should be as easy as possible and the explanation of the terms and conditions should be clear, but totally kid-proofing it seems near impossible and not necessary.


There is no way to block 'kids' from investing or even trying to claim free tokens.  'Kids' can also be mentally slow adults.  I see a bunch of people complain about Byteball (and all other projects as well), simply because they have no damn clue as to what they're doing.  They read what they want and ignore everything else.  So, when they can't figure out how they just spent $8, they complain the project is at fault and ignore what the transition bot said.  It's simply amazing how many of those 'kids' have no idea what a change address is or how to move coins but actually have coins to even move (without having lost them).  Almost as amazing is how many of those people have $100 worth of coin and willing to pay an $8 transaction, but complain that they haven't received $1000 worth of free coin.  They just simply have no clue and almost no amount of coaching will every help them or even change their mind that something is good or bad, because they've already made the decision in their head that it can't be their fault for having not followed directions.

No, these are reasonable users that the project is driving away by being asinine. Why on earth should users not be refunded when a project-sponsored verification fails do to technical reasons? And why is it a goal of this project to make everything user-unfriendly as possible while making public no plans for improvement? The market's trust in this project is fading because of poor leadership attitudes and I say that as someone with a lot of GB. Tony doesn't seem to care about the price of GB nor the market perception, saying exchanges and "traders" are unnecessary.

Also, will there or will there not be an aidrop in March? What will happen with all the remaining bytes?

Reasonable users?   Ha!
Your response is akin to saying... Why shouldn't I be refunded by the casino if the ball lands on Red when I put my money on Black?   I mean, I intended to bet on Black, so it should be considered a win even though it was my mistake for physically putting it on Red.   Just like all the people investing on known Ponzi scams working out great until it fails and then complain that they lost their money and want it back.  LOL.  If someone invests in something and it makes money, they are happy.  If they invest and it goes down, it's everyone's fault but their own and they feel entitled to get everything back.

I like the rest of your paragraph.  You simply made everything up.   I don't see where the goal was to make things user-unfriendly - Please quote your source.
You also said Tony doesn't seem to care.  --- Please post where you came up with this far fetched idea as well.
Even better was your statement in which you quoted out of context.

Also, if you read the OP (Original Post) or even look at the website, you will see the next 'tentative' airdrop is in March.  I realize you are standing in line to get the free welfare check and complaining that there is no leather recliner to sit in.

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February 07, 2018, 05:43:31 PM
Last edit: February 07, 2018, 05:55:04 PM by Michail1
 #17106


Why would you delete your appdata (wallet folder) just because of a one time error?  That's another mistake (second) in that even if the wallet has a problem, it can be fixed.  So, a backup (simply moving the folder) is preferred to deleting and then hoping to magically get the funds to reappear.

Why? Delete the appdata folder was to ensure that I can install the new version without old artifacts that could cause trouble and backup with the SEED.



For future thought...

Wallet and APP are two different things.
Installing a new wallet, uninstalling, reinstalling, installing on top have no affect on the wallet (data) itself.

The same goes for a corrupted wallet in that all of the above will not fix it.


The airdrop in march: will it be the last one? Or will more airdrops follow?

Don't know, but there is going to have to be more in order to distribute the promised number of bytes to the public.  I would like to know how those distributions will take place myself.

Question regarding the Airdrop:
I've moved my BTC to a segwit address (starting with 3..). The chatbot gives me the following response:
Quote
Only P2PKH addresses (those that start with 1) can sign messages. You can prove ownership of xyz only by microtransaction.
My question is: How can I make such a transaction? What is the address that I've to send to?
Has anyone successfully registered a segwit address with a micro transaction and can give me some guidance? I've checked the Byteball Wiki but couldn't find the answer there.


You will not be able to sign with segwit.
So, only chance (for you to test yourself), is to setup a segwit transaction and see it if will work in the transition bot.

segwit and multisig start with a 3
You can see that 1 or both formats are accepted with the transision bot.
http://transition.byteball.org/
The latest address that paid was:
3Q6j4BU9kmuuK2sMjKjg9vcg9x5kYLQgAf
Paid a TX and coins moved to what appears another segwit address.

Another example is:
3GQVpXeMa4njR3oqdHDPLrriBLfyCttoih
They paid the fee and the change went to another segwit change address and then the change was moved back to the original address in order to claim bytes based on the full number of bitcoins.



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February 07, 2018, 06:13:28 PM
 #17107


Hi guys. I need help.

I installed the byteball wallet from play store. I'm not sure but i think it didn't ask me if i wanted a light or a full wallet at start, and now it keep saying syncing.....

Do the android app default to a full wallet? I want a light wallet cause my android device can't contain the entire byteball blockchain.

What i did wrong?

Thanks.

This must be another problem. There is no full wallet for Android.

Thanks for your reply.

I've found an open issue that could be the one i'm experiencing: https://github.com/byteball/byteball/issues/266

My situation is very similar cause i sent some blackbytes to the android wallet that can't sync.

Don't know what to do. If someone have hints please help.

I have been having a similar problem for many months and I am now giving up. Installed and disintalled several times on both my android mobile and tabled, never got the sync to work. Luckily I had always made multisig wallets in my android apps, and I had the same addresses also on PC, so that I have never lost coins. But this fact that the blackbytes don't like very much to sync on android wallets is a serious issue that the dev should address. People who lose their coins typically lose also their trust.
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February 07, 2018, 06:17:06 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #17108

The question for Byteball is: should we try and make this process kid-proof? My opinion is that we should not. Working with contracts is something for adults. Of course the process should be as easy as possible and the explanation of the terms and conditions should be clear, but totally kid-proofing it seems near impossible and not necessary.


There is no way to block 'kids' from investing or even trying to claim free tokens.  'Kids' can also be mentally slow adults.  I see a bunch of people complain about Byteball (and all other projects as well), simply because they have no damn clue as to what they're doing.  They read what they want and ignore everything else.  So, when they can't figure out how they just spent $8, they complain the project is at fault and ignore what the transition bot said.  It's simply amazing how many of those 'kids' have no idea what a change address is or how to move coins but actually have coins to even move (without having lost them).  Almost as amazing is how many of those people have $100 worth of coin and willing to pay an $8 transaction, but complain that they haven't received $1000 worth of free coin.  They just simply have no clue and almost no amount of coaching will every help them or even change their mind that something is good or bad, because they've already made the decision in their head that it can't be their fault for having not followed directions.

No, these are reasonable users that the project is driving away by being asinine. Why on earth should users not be refunded when a project-sponsored verification fails do to technical reasons? And why is it a goal of this project to make everything user-unfriendly as possible while making public no plans for improvement? The market's trust in this project is fading because of poor leadership attitudes and I say that as someone with a lot of GB. Tony doesn't seem to care about the price of GB nor the market perception, saying exchanges and "traders" are unnecessary.

Also, will there or will there not be an aidrop in March? What will happen with all the remaining bytes?

Reasonable users?   Ha!
Your response is akin to saying... Why shouldn't I be refunded by the casino if the ball lands on Red when I put my money on Black?   I mean, I intended to bet on Black, so it should be considered a win even though it was my mistake for physically putting it on Red.   Just like all the people investing on known Ponzi scams working out great until it fails and then complain that they lost their money and want it back.  LOL.  If someone invests in something and it makes money, they are happy.  If they invest and it goes down, it's everyone's fault but their own and they feel entitled to get everything back.

I like the rest of your paragraph.  You simply made everything up.   I don't see where the goal was to make things user-unfriendly - Please quote your source.
You also said Tony doesn't seem to care.  --- Please post where you came up with this far fetched idea as well.
Even better was your statement in which you quoted out of context.

Also, if you read the OP (Original Post) or even look at the website, you will see the next 'tentative' airdrop is in March.  I realize you are standing in line to get the free welfare check and complaining that there is no leather recliner to sit in.

Haha. Verifying yourself is supposed to be a gamble (!!!?). Nice joke. I really like your gymnastics. User unfriendly - read this thread maybe? Users have failed verification because they didn't use a single address wallet. Why doesn't the verification handle the case when they don't have a single address wallet? Why is the current tps limited to 10 and why are there no plans to improve that? Why are so many unable to use a full wallet? No optimization plans? Why doesn't the project require Jumio to refund users when verification fails due to technical reasons or due to Jumio's inadequacy? Why has Tony completely ignored the community desire for a more professional/agreeable name? Why has Tony brushed off silvercatman's help with redesigning the website look?

I'm not asking for any handouts. I would much prefer the airdrops  and Jumio program cease because they are very ineffective at gaining users. Why doesn't Tony set aside some bytes for the development and marketing instead of foolishly giving away more bytes? Any plans for a secure web wallet? Tony thinks that new exchanges are not necessary as stated in recent interview (look on Reddit), so we are stuck with one low volume exchange that is open (cryptox).

Why don't I do all of those things myself you ask? I don't have the time or expertise and well Tony is in charge of the project. He's also the one sitting on over $100,000,000 worth of undistributed bytes.
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February 07, 2018, 06:20:53 PM
 #17109

The question for Byteball is: should we try and make this process kid-proof? My opinion is that we should not. Working with contracts is something for adults. Of course the process should be as easy as possible and the explanation of the terms and conditions should be clear, but totally kid-proofing it seems near impossible and not necessary.


There is no way to block 'kids' from investing or even trying to claim free tokens.  'Kids' can also be mentally slow adults.  I see a bunch of people complain about Byteball (and all other projects as well), simply because they have no damn clue as to what they're doing.  They read what they want and ignore everything else.  So, when they can't figure out how they just spent $8, they complain the project is at fault and ignore what the transition bot said.  It's simply amazing how many of those 'kids' have no idea what a change address is or how to move coins but actually have coins to even move (without having lost them).  Almost as amazing is how many of those people have $100 worth of coin and willing to pay an $8 transaction, but complain that they haven't received $1000 worth of free coin.  They just simply have no clue and almost no amount of coaching will every help them or even change their mind that something is good or bad, because they've already made the decision in their head that it can't be their fault for having not followed directions.

No, these are reasonable users that the project is driving away by being asinine. Why on earth should users not be refunded when a project-sponsored verification fails do to technical reasons? And why is it a goal of this project to make everything user-unfriendly as possible while making public no plans for improvement? The market's trust in this project is fading because of poor leadership attitudes and I say that as someone with a lot of GB. Tony doesn't seem to care about the price of GB nor the market perception, saying exchanges and "traders" are unnecessary.

Also, will there or will there not be an aidrop in March? What will happen with all the remaining bytes?

After reading of all the failed ID verification and 8$ losses my enthusiasm of going through the process has cooled down - I'm not a clueless kid but I have already experienced this kind of processes fail for technical reasons independent from my will. It is sufficient that the camera of your PC has not with the necessary resolution or that there is not enough light in the room and the process will fail.
A good Market perception in this surreal crypto-space is alas fundamental, by the way. I am sharing the perception that this is a weak point to this day. There's space for improvement.

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February 07, 2018, 06:36:08 PM
 #17110

ByteballJesus made a great video:

Jesus shames Roger Ver for sins against Bitcoin

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7vwole/jesus_shames_roger_ver_for_sins_against_bitcoin/

Please upvote!

 Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy
Sorry but should Byteball be officially endorsing Bitcoin over Bitcoin Cash? This project has both Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash supporters. That's a really divisive marketing strategy...
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February 07, 2018, 06:44:20 PM
 #17111

ByteballJesus made a great video:

Jesus shames Roger Ver for sins against Bitcoin

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7vwole/jesus_shames_roger_ver_for_sins_against_bitcoin/

Please upvote!

 Cheesy  Cheesy  Cheesy
Sorry but should Byteball be officially endorsing Bitcoin over Bitcoin Cash? This project has both Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash supporters. That's a really divisive marketing strategy...

Byteball Jesus does not officially represent Byteball, he just made a joke to get some attention for Byteball. I wouldn't try to make it bigger than it is: a joke.

⚪ Obyte     ❱❱❱     I T   J U S T   W O R K S .    ❱❱❱
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February 07, 2018, 06:56:37 PM
 #17112

Haha. Verifying yourself is supposed to be a gamble (!!!?). Nice joke. I really like your gymnastics. User unfriendly - read this thread maybe? Users have failed verification because they didn't use a single address wallet. Why doesn't the verification handle the case when they don't have a single address wallet? Why is the current tps limited to 10 and why are there no plans to improve that? Why are so many unable to use a full wallet? No optimization plans? Why doesn't the project require Jumio to refund users when verification fails due to technical reasons or due to Jumio's inadequacy? Why has Tony completely ignored the community desire for a more professional/agreeable name? Why has Tony brushed off silvercatman's help with redesigning the website look?

I'm not asking for any handouts. I would much prefer the airdrops  and Jumio program cease because they are very ineffective at gaining users. Why doesn't Tony set aside some bytes for the development and marketing instead of foolishly giving away more bytes? Any plans for a secure web wallet? Tony thinks that new exchanges are not necessary as stated in recent interview (look on Reddit), so we are stuck with one low volume exchange that is open (cryptox).

Why don't I do all of those things myself you ask? I don't have the time or expertise and well Tony is in charge of the project. He's also the one sitting on over $100,000,000 worth of undistributed bytes.

Who said verification is a gamble?  Still making up things?

User unfriendy?  Sure, that's totally why byteball is doing well and has a thread with over 850 pages.
Users have NOT failed to verify because of single or multiple addresses.   Have you bothered to even look at transition bot to see this?  I have many wallets with single and multiple addresses.  Never a problem.  What is a problem you have with verification?   I would be interested in looking at example or two.

I see someone simply whining.  Just like my ex-wife (thank god).  If there is something to complain about, she will.  If there is nothing to complain about, she will still complain about it.

If you don't like it, then move on.  Stop making up problems to try to prove a point.

Really, your complaint now is the website as well?  Gawd.  Instead of complaining, why not make a suggestion?  'I suggest pretty colors on the site'?  lol

Let's back up some of your claims before you keep making stuff up.

Contradiction - Not looking for a handout, but asking for an airdrop.

'Tony sitting on the bytes for distribution.'   Oh gawd, so now you're complaining they weren't handed out fast enough?

'Why doesn't Tony set aside some bytes for the development and marketing ' - Do you check?  There are marketing efforts and I have donated to them.

Honestly, everyone has their own idea how something should be done.  If it doesn't match what they think, most will make suggestions.  Many, like yourself, simply complain about it.  Have you thought about starting your own project?  I mean, it's gotta be easy, right?

'Why has Tony completely ignored the community desire for a more professional/agreeable name?' - Another assumption on your part.  Did you consider that it might have been up for a pole/discussion and decided against?  Or, just something to bitch about?  Most coins that do that are a failing project in hope of getting a new name to revamp interest.  'Under New Management' and 'Rebraded' don't typically work.

'Why has Tony brushed off silvercatman's help with redesigning the website look?' - Did you ask him or want me to make up an answer.   Frankly, I don't know.  Why not ask him or silvercatman to find out instead of bitching about it in some random post that likely will not be read by the people that could give you a reasonable answer.

And finally, Tony did not say exchanges were not necessary.  He stated that exchanges are used by traders and that they are targetting regular people and that byteball needs to build payment gateways.
Just because he didn't fill your thought of what should be done, doesn't mean he said something that shouldn't be done.   Basically, it appears you simply read what the post said instead of listening to the audio of what he actually said.   And, even if he did say it wasn't necessary (he didn't), consider the language barrier as well.  

You're welcome to start your own project, but keep the facts clear.  I would like to look at your project when it comes out.  I would like to see something made that would fulfill all your issues/suggestions, but please remember, you also must make everyone happy that poses an issue that exists or not.



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February 07, 2018, 07:08:34 PM
Merited by vlom (1)
 #17113

After reading of all the failed ID verification and 8$ losses my enthusiasm of going through the process has cooled down - I'm not a clueless kid but I have already experienced this kind of processes fail for technical reasons independent from my will. It is sufficient that the camera of your PC has not with the necessary resolution or that there is not enough light in the room and the process will fail.
A good Market perception in this surreal crypto-space is alas fundamental, by the way. I am sharing the perception that this is a weak point to this day. There's space for improvement.

Trying to understand what you mean by ID verification.
Byteball doesn't require an ID.   No ID is requested.  No camera is needed.  So, picture quality is a mute point.

If you mean Transition bot (address linking (again, nothing to do with a camera)) then the process is simple.  NO ID is needed.  NO Camera.  NO Picture.

Quote simply to link your address to get a part of the distribution, you follow the bot questions.
You tell it your byteball address.   two clicks.
You can pay the address it says (small amount)    OR    tell it your address and sign the message  (NO fee)

It's that simple.

If someone is having a camera to convert the address to qr code and then scan, etc, then that's added steps someone is doing that isn't needed.
The problem in that case has nothing to do with byteball and simply the end user making the process far more complicated than needed.

If someone is paying an address and the bot shows a zero balance, then it's because they had a change address their coins went to.  This is a part of bitcoin, not byteball.  People need to learn how bitcoin works and maybe just read a little more on byteball about what might have happened as to why byteball transition shows a balance that isn't expected.  There is no way for byteball to know your wallet has the coins you own distributed throughout many addresses.

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February 07, 2018, 08:05:40 PM
 #17114

After reading of all the failed ID verification and 8$ losses my enthusiasm of going through the process has cooled down - I'm not a clueless kid but I have already experienced this kind of processes fail for technical reasons independent from my will. It is sufficient that the camera of your PC has not with the necessary resolution or that there is not enough light in the room and the process will fail.
A good Market perception in this surreal crypto-space is alas fundamental, by the way. I am sharing the perception that this is a weak point to this day. There's space for improvement.

Trying to understand what you mean by ID verification.
Byteball doesn't require an ID.   No ID is requested.  No camera is needed.  So, picture quality is a mute point.

If you mean Transition bot (address linking (again, nothing to do with a camera)) then the process is simple.  NO ID is needed.  NO Camera.  NO Picture.

Quote simply to link your address to get a part of the distribution, you follow the bot questions.
You tell it your byteball address.   two clicks.
You can pay the address it says (small amount)    OR    tell it your address and sign the message  (NO fee)

It's that simple.

If someone is having a camera to convert the address to qr code and then scan, etc, then that's added steps someone is doing that isn't needed.
The problem in that case has nothing to do with byteball and simply the end user making the process far more complicated than needed.

If someone is paying an address and the bot shows a zero balance, then it's because they had a change address their coins went to.  This is a part of bitcoin, not byteball.  People need to learn how bitcoin works and maybe just read a little more on byteball about what might have happened as to why byteball transition shows a balance that isn't expected.  There is no way for byteball to know your wallet has the coins you own distributed throughout many addresses.


Thanks Michail, but I was referring to the ID verification for the referral system, as mentioned in this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ByteBall/comments/7rtixn/byteball_id_verification_program_tutorial/

I don't remember all details of this initiative, this is why my post was not so precise, but I remember that when it was launched time ago I was at first VERY enthusiastic of it but then something in the technical process didn't work out properly and I've started to read of all the complains of people who were just losing their 8$ for the failed verification and I've postponed to deal with the issue until I forgot about it.


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February 07, 2018, 08:37:24 PM
 #17115

The question for Byteball is: should we try and make this process kid-proof? My opinion is that we should not. Working with contracts is something for adults. Of course the process should be as easy as possible and the explanation of the terms and conditions should be clear, but totally kid-proofing it seems near impossible and not necessary.


There is no way to block 'kids' from investing or even trying to claim free tokens.  'Kids' can also be mentally slow adults.  I see a bunch of people complain about Byteball (and all other projects as well), simply because they have no damn clue as to what they're doing.  They read what they want and ignore everything else.  So, when they can't figure out how they just spent $8, they complain the project is at fault and ignore what the transition bot said.  It's simply amazing how many of those 'kids' have no idea what a change address is or how to move coins but actually have coins to even move (without having lost them).  Almost as amazing is how many of those people have $100 worth of coin and willing to pay an $8 transaction, but complain that they haven't received $1000 worth of free coin.  They just simply have no clue and almost no amount of coaching will every help them or even change their mind that something is good or bad, because they've already made the decision in their head that it can't be their fault for having not followed directions.

No, these are reasonable users that the project is driving away by being asinine. Why on earth should users not be refunded when a project-sponsored verification fails do to technical reasons? And why is it a goal of this project to make everything user-unfriendly as possible while making public no plans for improvement? The market's trust in this project is fading because of poor leadership attitudes and I say that as someone with a lot of GB. Tony doesn't seem to care about the price of GB nor the market perception, saying exchanges and "traders" are unnecessary.

Also, will there or will there not be an aidrop in March? What will happen with all the remaining bytes?

Reasonable users?   Ha!
Your response is akin to saying... Why shouldn't I be refunded by the casino if the ball lands on Red when I put my money on Black?   I mean, I intended to bet on Black, so it should be considered a win even though it was my mistake for physically putting it on Red.   Just like all the people investing on known Ponzi scams working out great until it fails and then complain that they lost their money and want it back.  LOL.  If someone invests in something and it makes money, they are happy.  If they invest and it goes down, it's everyone's fault but their own and they feel entitled to get everything back.

I like the rest of your paragraph.  You simply made everything up.   I don't see where the goal was to make things user-unfriendly - Please quote your source.
You also said Tony doesn't seem to care.  --- Please post where you came up with this far fetched idea as well.
Even better was your statement in which you quoted out of context.

Also, if you read the OP (Original Post) or even look at the website, you will see the next 'tentative' airdrop is in March.  I realize you are standing in line to get the free welfare check and complaining that there is no leather recliner to sit in.

it's a stupid idea to take money from people regardless if they have successful verification or not we're dealing with a business here not a casino and i am sure there are laws out there to protect consumers like this, this people are sort of gangsters not people willing to do fair business.
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February 07, 2018, 08:44:15 PM
 #17116

The question for Byteball is: should we try and make this process kid-proof? My opinion is that we should not. Working with contracts is something for adults. Of course the process should be as easy as possible and the explanation of the terms and conditions should be clear, but totally kid-proofing it seems near impossible and not necessary.


There is no way to block 'kids' from investing or even trying to claim free tokens.  'Kids' can also be mentally slow adults.  I see a bunch of people complain about Byteball (and all other projects as well), simply because they have no damn clue as to what they're doing.  They read what they want and ignore everything else.  So, when they can't figure out how they just spent $8, they complain the project is at fault and ignore what the transition bot said.  It's simply amazing how many of those 'kids' have no idea what a change address is or how to move coins but actually have coins to even move (without having lost them).  Almost as amazing is how many of those people have $100 worth of coin and willing to pay an $8 transaction, but complain that they haven't received $1000 worth of free coin.  They just simply have no clue and almost no amount of coaching will every help them or even change their mind that something is good or bad, because they've already made the decision in their head that it can't be their fault for having not followed directions.

No, these are reasonable users that the project is driving away by being asinine. Why on earth should users not be refunded when a project-sponsored verification fails do to technical reasons? And why is it a goal of this project to make everything user-unfriendly as possible while making public no plans for improvement? The market's trust in this project is fading because of poor leadership attitudes and I say that as someone with a lot of GB. Tony doesn't seem to care about the price of GB nor the market perception, saying exchanges and "traders" are unnecessary.

Also, will there or will there not be an aidrop in March? What will happen with all the remaining bytes?

Reasonable users?   Ha!
Your response is akin to saying... Why shouldn't I be refunded by the casino if the ball lands on Red when I put my money on Black?   I mean, I intended to bet on Black, so it should be considered a win even though it was my mistake for physically putting it on Red.   Just like all the people investing on known Ponzi scams working out great until it fails and then complain that they lost their money and want it back.  LOL.  If someone invests in something and it makes money, they are happy.  If they invest and it goes down, it's everyone's fault but their own and they feel entitled to get everything back.

I like the rest of your paragraph.  You simply made everything up.   I don't see where the goal was to make things user-unfriendly - Please quote your source.
You also said Tony doesn't seem to care.  --- Please post where you came up with this far fetched idea as well.
Even better was your statement in which you quoted out of context.

Also, if you read the OP (Original Post) or even look at the website, you will see the next 'tentative' airdrop is in March.  I realize you are standing in line to get the free welfare check and complaining that there is no leather recliner to sit in.

it's a stupid idea to take money from people regardless if they have successful verification or not we're dealing with a business here not a casino and i am sure there are laws out there to protect consumers like this, this people are sort of gangsters not people willing to do fair business.
Especially when verification is done by a Bot if it was done by a human and you fail the verification it's probably fair to charge small amount for time wasting but verification id done by a bot and a Bot is not human and most the time the verification failure is due to Bot's fault
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February 07, 2018, 08:57:01 PM
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 #17117


it's a stupid idea to take money from people regardless if they have successful verification or not we're dealing with a business here not a casino and i am sure there are laws out there to protect consumers like this, this people are sort of gangsters not people willing to do fair business.

What money was taken from you?


Thanks Michail, but I was referring to the ID verification for the referral system, as mentioned in this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ByteBall/comments/7rtixn/byteball_id_verification_program_tutorial/

I don't remember all details of this initiative, this is why my post was not so precise, but I remember that when it was launched time ago I was at first VERY enthusiastic of it but then something in the technical process didn't work out properly and I've started to read of all the complains of people who were just losing their 8$ for the failed verification and I've postponed to deal with the issue until I forgot about it.

Thanks.
I agree with you.  I didn't realize there was such a big issue and that people are so willing to submit passports and drivers licenses.

Personally, I wouldn't sell my identification for $12.



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February 07, 2018, 09:05:43 PM
 #17118


it's a stupid idea to take money from people regardless if they have successful verification or not we're dealing with a business here not a casino and i am sure there are laws out there to protect consumers like this, this people are sort of gangsters not people willing to do fair business.

What money was taken from you?

i am not talking abut me here i don't do business with gangsters,i am talking about people who lost their money trying to do the verification using the verification bot
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February 07, 2018, 09:31:53 PM
 #17119


Thanks Michail, but I was referring to the ID verification for the referral system, as mentioned in this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ByteBall/comments/7rtixn/byteball_id_verification_program_tutorial/

I don't remember all details of this initiative, this is why my post was not so precise, but I remember that when it was launched time ago I was at first VERY enthusiastic of it but then something in the technical process didn't work out properly and I've started to read of all the complains of people who were just losing their 8$ for the failed verification and I've postponed to deal with the issue until I forgot about it.

Thanks.
I agree with you.  I didn't realize there was such a big issue and that people are so willing to submit passports and drivers licenses.

Personally, I wouldn't sell my identification for $12.




Yeah, that's another good point, this is why I have skipped the Polymath airdrop, which I've heard was not bad as value, because they were requiring passport identification etc, which I had found very annoying. But I remember that with the Byteball issue is was not too annoying, since you basically would have to have just one wallet address linked to your identity, and not necessarily the one that you would usually use.

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February 08, 2018, 12:14:09 AM
 #17120

A while back I posted some doubts I had about the idea of 12 witnesses in byteball.

The byteball jesus video (which I thought to be a slightly unfair dig at Roger Ver) nether the less had some great comments, one of which I repost here. Quote from Surirelav

This is exactly the kind of discussion I was looking for..

Quote
12 seems like a low number but a witness in the Byteball system ideally is not just a single person but someone who represents a big business or institution with a lot of real world value. Let's take Jeff Bezos as an example. He has so much to lose in the real world that it would be very hard to persuade him to collude with 6 other very high profile people of high market cap companies/high profile institutions across the globe. Let alone, abduct and torture 7 of them before anyone finds out and can replace them.

All the assets of a witness in the real world, its entire reputation, all that is a security bond, not just what it has or what it earns in the internal economy. This makes the witnesses anchors to the real world.

From a game theoretic point of view I would argue that a 12 witness system like this is actually more secure than a PoW based one. If you up the number of witnesses it will be much harder for users to know and recognise them all so they would just go with the "default" and not care about it much. So you have to have a number that is both safe and practical, 12 seems to fit the job. This number is large enough to protect against occasional failures but is not too large so that users can still know every witness.

And we want the witnesses to be accountable, that’s why there is a way to replace them. The way it works is that every user, with every transaction, posts a list of 12 witnesses he trusts. But we won’t have consensus if the lists posted by different users are too far apart. That’s why the lists of neighboring transactions on the DAG must differ by no more than one position.

The fact that witnesses can be replaced is another difference with miners. The witnesses are accountable. If a witness loses trust of users, users immediately signal their mistrust by changing their witness lists.

What miners do, they look at your transactions and decide, “I like this transaction and will include it, or I don’t like this transaction and won’t include it”. With witnesses, it is the reverse. It is users who look for witnesses to determine the consensus order of transactions. Witnesses don’t decide anything about individual transactions. They are expected just to be there.

What we do know from 9 years of Bitcoin / PoW though is this:

    Miners are gatekeepers; they have the power to include or not include your transaction. So the access to the ledger is not quite free, you have to meet the miners’ criteria for your transaction to be included in the next block.

    Miners are not accountable; they are supposed to make money, period.

    Fee market is an uncertainty; When the blocks are full, there is competition to get into the next block. Paying a higher fee supposedly increases your chances to get into the block. But a payment system which is supposed to be used in everyday business, is not a game of chance, there must be guarantees that once you send a transaction according to all the rules, which is properly signed, spends existing money, and is not a double-spend, after you send it, you can immediately disconnect and still be confident that it goes through. In blockchains, when the blocks are full, there is no certainty, no guarantees, no such thing as the right fee.

    Trade-off between security and cost; block reward is supposed to be reduced over time and eventually go to 0. This means that miner incentives from block reward will decrease and they should be replaced by fees. Which means that the system is as secure as the total amount of fees paid, and there is an uncomfortable trade-off between security and cost.

    Negative balance of resources; miners burn energy and have to pay to energy companies, outside the ecosystem. Which means that the balance between resources flowing in and out of the ecosystem is negative.

    Outside incentives are ignored; lastly, miner incentives are only inside the ecosystem. They make more money by mining honestly than by doublespending Bitcoins, that’s true under assumption that all their incentives are inside Bitcoin. If we forget about the outside world, as if it doesn’t exist. But in reality, outside incentives do exist. Even more, if there are other tokens issued on the same ledger, as it is the case on Ethereum, the block reward is still in the native currency only but now this should be balanced against doublespending not only the native currency but the other tokens too. If the tokens are worth more than the native currency, the system becomes insecure.

So it does make sense to try out other consensus mechanisms. I really like Bitcoin a lot, but I love Byteball for trying something new.
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