Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[rizzman]

How many machines were people expecting to see shipped on this first run of chips?

The original Orders numbered around 890. so figure even if every order placed was for 10 units (not likely) that would be 8900 units - 1 reel of chips would in theory cover this order. I'm not worried until 15 Oct rolls around... after that, then its worry time.

[soy]

Who still believes that a company that gets chips (done in the fab) less than 2 week before the complete working units should be in customers' hands, can deliver the promise?

Even NVIDIA or Intel couldn't do that!

To be fair, what nVidia and intel produce is infinitely more complicated than a bitcoin asic. I too have my reservations about all those promised deadlines, but comparisons to GPUs and CPu's are simply not valid.

Well, true that but KNC has never tested that specific ASIC - they don't know about the real chip, only simulations.

Sometimes you breadboard a circuit and it works right the first time.  Sometimes no.  I believe they'll be happy with their ASIC's performance in situ.

[Biomech]

Welcome to the world class thinkers, "I can get something for nothing" crowd...

It's not me supporting the guys at the TOP of the PYRAMID! - Not anymore!
So, who is working for the "dark side"? Well, those funding the preorders for the ASIC Companies, who will make THEM Millionaires while making all of you SLAVES, hashing at a fraction of the capacity you bought into, while GIVING ENERGY, (FORCE) to those WHO CONTROL YOU!

For me, No thanks!
I retook my power from the evil dark side of ASIC mining companies.  

Really? How'd you get out of paying taxes?

[Bitcoinorama]

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

[rizzman]

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Disregard them... the thread is ablaze with FUD... Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Not everybody on here is ungrateful.

PS. Tell Sam to hurry up, the natives are getting restless!

[Biomech]

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

Been beat to death, but you are wrong. No ROI is NO return on investment. Either it don't hash, you don't plug it in, or you refund. Negative ROI means it did generate coins, just not as much as it cost (You know, like government "investments"). Breakeven is the beginning of positive ROI. After that your ROI is pure profit.

If you are going to use financial terminology, you should at least know what it means.

[Miz4r]

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

Been beat to death, but you are wrong. No ROI is NO return on investment. Either it don't hash, you don't plug it in, or you refund. Negative ROI means it did generate coins, just not as much as it cost (You know, like government "investments"). Breakeven is the beginning of positive ROI. After that your ROI is pure profit.

If you are going to use financial terminology, you should at least know what it means.

Stop it already, geez these pedantic smartasses just keep on going and going. Anyway you're wrong and lack the comprehension skills needed to get it. The discussion is already over and the horse is dead so bye now.

[bbxx]

There are no horses to bet at the moment,
Only unicorns


Knc has failed.

[Phoenix1969]

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Disregard them... the thread is ablaze with FUD... Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Not everybody on here is ungrateful.

PS. Tell Sam to hurry up, the natives are getting restless!

+1...
Forgive me, but the way the last update reads, they aren't going to be shipping out of Stockholm, no? Looks to me like they will be shipping from/near the point of manufacture to make up time...?  Just a thought...
What You guys think? (O'rama & Rizz)

[timmmers]

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

Damn, I thought you might be on a plane to Abbaland now. Have they asked you to go by any specific time yet? I ask because apparently China's having a launch party with a working rig on the 29th in Shanghai...and China is half a day ahead of us giving them a day and a half to get it there? Surely they aren't releasing them there 1st?

I appreciate your reports and time spent passing on information to us too, it was extra info that was useful to a lot of us.
Good luck with the tottie.

[Phoenix1969]

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

Damn, I thought you might be on a plane to Abbaland now. Have they asked you to go by any specific time yet? I ask because apparently China's having a launch party with a working rig on the 29th in Shanghai...and China is half a day ahead of us giving them a day and a half to get it there? Surely they aren't releasing them there 1st?

I appreciate your reports and time spent passing on information to us too, it was extra info that was useful to a lot of us.
Good luck with the tottie.

I was thinking they could indeed launch there first, since they are manufactured there; or am I crazy?

[Biomech]

Well so far if you want an update.. here you go. Every day there is about 10 pages of crap. everyday.  Why cant everyone just chill and wait to see what happens?

Hey, I'm just tryin' to help! Y'all were saying that the actual hashrate might equal the number of pages in this thread when they ship...



I'm quite chill, actually, with no skin in the game. I'm just enjoying (and participating in) the show. I actually think they will make it. If they miss by a day or two, nobody is hurt except the "yes" voters on the bitbet.

[rizzman]

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Disregard them... the thread is ablaze with FUD... Thank you for taking the time to do this.

Not everybody on here is ungrateful.

PS. Tell Sam to hurry up, the natives are getting restless!

+1...
Forgive me, but the way the last update reads, they aren't going to be shipping out of Stockholm, no? Looks to me like they will be shipping from/near the point of manufacture to make up time...?  Just a thought...
What You guys think? (O'rama & Rizz)

I have no reason to doubt them as of yet. If I had to theorize thought, I would say that they mule-ling the majority of the chips back to Sweden from china to fill orders for US / EURO / ETC, while keeping some behind in China for Testing / debugging while the rest are in the air. ( Makes the most sense rather than wasting the time waiting for them to pass customs and have to do it anyways).

 In addition, I would not be surprised if they setup a COLO in china exclusively to handle that market. It does not make fiscal sense to have the chips made there, pay to ship them to Sweden, then pay more to ship the final product back...On top of that, it makes even more fiscal sense to utilize the cheap labor at their fingertips that could literally be right next door to the chip fab. This makes sense as to why they are offering a demo on the 29th - That demo theoretically could be the debugging model used to create the "Golden Image" for our machines.

[Bitcoinorama]

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

Damn, I thought you might be on a plane to Abbaland now. Have they asked you to go by any specific time yet? I ask because apparently China's having a launch party with a working rig on the 29th in Shanghai...and China is half a day ahead of us giving them a day and a half to get it there? Surely they aren't releasing them there 1st?

I appreciate your reports and time spent passing on information to us too, it was extra info that was useful to a lot of us.
Good luck with the tottie.

No mate, cannot drop everything on request, for starters I had a dentist appointment, which in all honesty I would rather not have had. I'm typing with half my face tingling as the numbness fades and I can feel the sites of four injections. In any case i'm aiming for Sat, with no return booked just yet. My gut says Mon, as I cannot see anyone (courier) delivering over the weekend unless they already have devices to hand, which is why I was asking for day one pick-up guys that are in easy reach of Stockholm to get in touch with Sam. If that bitbet is going to be won it'd be a crying shame for the kit to be available, but not picked up, even last minute. In any case I won't have a clue until I see what's up. I've been told it's brass monkeys there though.

[augustocroppo]

For anyone interested to know why the thread lost so many pages, I am certainly sure is because Bargraphics deleted more than a thousand posts from his profile:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=124940

Name: Bargraphics
Posts: 62
Activity: 62
Position: Full Member
Date Registered: May 31, 2013, 08:22:07 PM
Last Active: Today at 06:35:38 PM
Local Time:   September 26, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
Trust: 0: -0 / +0(0)

[iCEBREAKER]

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

Been beat to death, but you are wrong. No ROI is NO return on investment. Either it don't hash, you don't plug it in, or you refund. Negative ROI means it did generate coins, just not as much as it cost (You know, like government "investments"). Breakeven is the beginning of positive ROI. After that your ROI is pure profit.

If you are going to use financial terminology, you should at least know what it means.

This is why they're refusing refunds:

KnC's EZ-Copy pseudo-ASIC isn't going to be competitive against Bitfury, much less HashFast.

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:



HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

[timmmers]

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

Damn, I thought you might be on a plane to Abbaland now. Have they asked you to go by any specific time yet? I ask because apparently China's having a launch party with a working rig on the 29th in Shanghai...and China is half a day ahead of us giving them a day and a half to get it there? Surely they aren't releasing them there 1st?

I appreciate your reports and time spent passing on information to us too, it was extra info that was useful to a lot of us.
Good luck with the tottie.

I was thinking they could indeed launch there first, since they are manufactured there; or am I crazy?

The update about them "seeing millions of components arrive here" a few days ago doesn't match that scenario even if it does make most sense. What components would be arriving in Sweden if they weren't assembled there? Also weren't rigs immediately being set up in their hosting facility in Sweden when finished? They definitely gave the impression they were being assembled in Sweden.

Could be two separate production facilites..and could be a lot more rigs than we imagine if they are separate order books too.

[nightengale]

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

Been beat to death, but you are wrong. No ROI is NO return on investment. Either it don't hash, you don't plug it in, or you refund. Negative ROI means it did generate coins, just not as much as it cost (You know, like government "investments"). Breakeven is the beginning of positive ROI. After that your ROI is pure profit.

If you are going to use financial terminology, you should at least know what it means.

This is why they're refusing refunds:

KnC's EZ-Copy pseudo-ASIC isn't going to be competitive against Bitfury, much less HashFast.

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:



HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

You'll note the KnC Product listed is for **December** release. There is a big difference between hashing next week and hashing in December. Please read your materials before posting them.

[Henchman24]

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:

HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

Seems to be a misleading chart. 

First, they have "December" shown as the date for KNC products slated to ship in November.
Second, they conspicuously don't even list the ROI for the KNC products slated to ship in October.

What's up with that?

[nightengale]

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:

HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

Seems to be a misleading chart.  

First, they have "December" shown as the date for KNC products slated to ship in November.
Second, they conspicuously don't even list the ROI for the KNC products slated to ship in October.

What's up with that?

I think the theory on his chart is that only products that are currently available for order are listed. Since KnC October batches aren't available for order right now, they were pulled from it. I also think he likes to lean towards worst case scenarios when it comes to shipping times, however he does seem more optimistic about some vendors as opposed to others.