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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3037212 times)
mishax1
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November 23, 2014, 01:40:06 PM
 #39301


So what's the word from Magnus or any other lawyer that deals with this lawsuit ? 

Anyone hired a lawyer please provide some info  Roll Eyes 

My titan is still at UPS (for two weeks now) and they are bugging me to give them and answer so they release it to the customs and then i'll have to pay 2000$ to get it..
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November 23, 2014, 02:08:59 PM
 #39302

My friend's company has a top-class Swedish lawyer on the case, asking KnC's lawyer, who tried to claim there was nothing wrong with the Titan, to answer the question, "are you saying this device can be used for ALL scrypt applications?".

As I have been saying, it's going to be *real* interesting to see how KnC answer that particular question when they've already posted on their own forums and in email replies that it can't function properly for fast-block-time networks or p2pool.

Now they have pulled that "all scrypt applications" claim from their website, I'd say it might have got their attention.

Did you cancel your order prior to KnC shipping it?




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November 23, 2014, 02:56:14 PM
 #39303

My friend's company has a top-class Swedish lawyer on the case, asking KnC's lawyer, who tried to claim there was nothing wrong with the Titan, to answer the question, "are you saying this device can be used for ALL scrypt applications?".

As I have been saying, it's going to be *real* interesting to see how KnC answer that particular question when they've already posted on their own forums and in email replies that it can't function properly for fast-block-time networks or p2pool.

Now they have pulled that "all scrypt applications" claim from their website, I'd say it might have got their attention.

Did you cancel your order prior to KnC shipping it?





they may dodge this by saying it never applied to multipool mining ...but can't see how they can get around it not working with fast block new coin startups etc
plus the other stuff it should do with alts but don't the promised ie scrypt N which is i think a bigger fantasy then my Titan every making back 1/2 its purchase price














 

 

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BitBlender 

 













 















 












 
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Phoenix1969
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November 23, 2014, 04:51:37 PM
 #39304

Question...
I'm wondering if replacing Titan's Pi with a BBB will help the fast-block coins and/or multipool.... 
Has anyone tried?


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November 23, 2014, 05:20:37 PM
 #39305

i think the same my friend any link to buy bbb?
mishax1
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November 23, 2014, 06:17:12 PM
 #39306

My friend's company has a top-class Swedish lawyer on the case, asking KnC's lawyer, who tried to claim there was nothing wrong with the Titan, to answer the question, "are you saying this device can be used for ALL scrypt applications?".

As I have been saying, it's going to be *real* interesting to see how KnC answer that particular question when they've already posted on their own forums and in email replies that it can't function properly for fast-block-time networks or p2pool.

Now they have pulled that "all scrypt applications" claim from their website, I'd say it might have got their attention.

Did you cancel your order prior to KnC shipping it?


I did ask for a refund a few months ago and declined of course. Was there another way to "cancel" the order ?
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November 23, 2014, 09:05:55 PM
 #39307

I am so glad I got out of the mining game and managed to do it at the correct time.

Btw what is the current lowest price for GH/s for a complete product and have we reached the point where the electricity cost has surpassed the mining revenue?
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November 24, 2014, 12:05:42 AM
 #39308

Question...
I'm wondering if replacing Titan's Pi with a BBB will help the fast-block coins and/or multipool.... 

No, it won't. The rPI performance is not a limiting factor.
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November 24, 2014, 12:50:40 AM
 #39309

I am so glad I got out of the mining game and managed to do it at the correct time.

Btw what is the current lowest price for GH/s for a complete product and have we reached the point where the electricity cost has surpassed the mining revenue?

It's getting there if you have expensive electricity.

Antminer S3+, $210 USD, 450 GH/s

income = $2/day
electricity@$.15/kwh = $1.25/day.

I'm not growing my farm now, but the income and spare heat is quite nice this winter.

Buy & Hold
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November 24, 2014, 01:11:36 AM
 #39310

I am so glad I got out of the mining game and managed to do it at the correct time.

Btw what is the current lowest price for GH/s for a complete product and have we reached the point where the electricity cost has surpassed the mining revenue?

It's getting there if you have expensive electricity.

Antminer S3+, $210 USD, 450 GH/s

income = $2/day
electricity@$.15/kwh = $1.25/day.

I'm not growing my farm now, but the income and spare heat is quite nice this winter.

These attract VAT+duty when imported in the EU, so the total comes around 250USD. Then you need a PSU, so let's say 30USD more.
Total = 280USD

Basically these will never see break even.
Here in the UK these will bring 0.30GBP profit daily  Shocked


Phoenix1969
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November 24, 2014, 02:40:43 AM
 #39311

Question...
I'm wondering if replacing Titan's Pi with a BBB will help the fast-block coins and/or multipool.... 

No, it won't. The rPI performance is not a limiting factor.
thx


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raskul
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November 24, 2014, 07:35:44 AM
 #39312

I am so glad I got out of the mining game and managed to do it at the correct time.

Btw what is the current lowest price for GH/s for a complete product and have we reached the point where the electricity cost has surpassed the mining revenue?

It's getting there if you have expensive electricity.

Antminer S3+, $210 USD, 450 GH/s

income = $2/day
electricity@$.15/kwh = $1.25/day.

I'm not growing my farm now, but the income and spare heat is quite nice this winter.

These attract VAT+duty when imported in the EU, so the total comes around 250USD. Then you need a PSU, so let's say 30USD more.
Total = 280USD

Basically these will never see break even.
Here in the UK these will bring 0.30GBP profit daily  Shocked




this.

we should be seeing a far bigger drop in difficulty than we are. however, from what I see across these forums, there seems to be even more new miners than there was last year at this point. insane.
the only reason I still have 8TH/s running is because my electric is free. If it wasn't for that, I doubt very much i'd have such 'confidence in the price of bitcoin'

 Undecided

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
cryptodevil
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November 24, 2014, 08:01:21 AM
 #39313

I did ask for a refund a few months ago and declined of course. Was there another way to "cancel" the order ?

Well, I cannot say, yet, whether KnC's failure to meet the specification of "all scrypt applications" is sufficient for an across-the-board liability and obligation to honour every and all cancellation and refund request, however, given that my friend's company's legal challenge to KnC is within their asserted 'B2B' trade agreement meaning that, unlike a consumer product you cannot simply cancel on a whim, the fact they have failed to deliver a device which can work for all scrypt applications and were informed of the cancellation and refund request after they themselves had confirmed it could not mine on p2pool or fast-block-time coins, means the cancellation instruction was not made 'on a whim', but because of there being a serious deviation from the original specifications, with a limitation of use that was not disclosed at the time of purchase, it is possible that said product limitation will expose them to being obligated to give full refunds to anybody who asks for one, or it might be limited only to those cancellations and refunds they were advised of prior to despatch and based on the units being of limited use.

That they are grossly late in delivering these Titans is irrelevant because, as everybody observed months ago, all they had to do was ship one Titan out before the end of September, which I believe is what they did.

That the units didn't mine reliably or at the promised speeds was always going to see KnC excusing themselves with "the promised speeds were only estimates".

That there was now little-to-no chance of ever making ROI was, to be fair to KnC on this point, legally nothing to do with them.

A limitation of use, however, is something that must be disclosed at the time of sale/purchase for a product that would otherwise be reasonably assumed not to have such a limitation. No other scrypt ASIC miner on the market is sold with a limitation on where it can function, the Titan is the only one with such a limit and, even up to the end of last week KnC's sales web-page was touting the Titan as being able to be used "for all scrypt applications" when, the fact is, no, it cannot be used for all scrypt applications.

BTW, I realise actually that the removal of the "all scrypt applications" element of KnC's sales page on their website is because they have posted, "All litecoin mining hardware is currently sold-out."

Which means the offending text contained within the Titan sales description is not there anymore.

For those who miss its bold, confident, albeit false, assertion:
Quote
The Titan Scrypt Miner chip sports 2284 cores running 18272 threads. It can be utilised for any Scrypt-based application

So, KnC, any chance of answering this gentleman's valid question?
http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/69437-when-will-the-titan-be-able-to-mine-all-scrypt-based-coins








WARNING!!! Check your forum URLs carefully and avoid links to phishing sites like 'thebitcointalk' 'bitcointalk.to' and 'BitcointaLLk'
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November 24, 2014, 02:56:29 PM
 #39314

I am so glad I got out of the mining game and managed to do it at the correct time.

Btw what is the current lowest price for GH/s for a complete product and have we reached the point where the electricity cost has surpassed the mining revenue?

It's getting there if you have expensive electricity.

Antminer S3+, $210 USD, 450 GH/s

income = $2/day
electricity@$.15/kwh = $1.25/day.

I'm not growing my farm now, but the income and spare heat is quite nice this winter.

These attract VAT+duty when imported in the EU, so the total comes around 250USD. Then you need a PSU, so let's say 30USD more.
Total = 280USD

Basically these will never see break even.
Here in the UK these will bring 0.30GBP profit daily  Shocked




this.

we should be seeing a far bigger drop in difficulty than we are. however, from what I see across these forums, there seems to be even more new miners than there was last year at this point. insane.
the only reason I still have 8TH/s running is because my electric is free. If it wasn't for that, I doubt very much i'd have such 'confidence in the price of bitcoin'

 Undecided

I don't think we will see a very big drop in difficulty, because mining has moved from the home of the average person to large industrial data centres where they pay cheap electricity rates.
So these mining companies are still very much profitable.
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November 24, 2014, 03:02:12 PM
 #39315

I am so glad I got out of the mining game and managed to do it at the correct time.

Btw what is the current lowest price for GH/s for a complete product and have we reached the point where the electricity cost has surpassed the mining revenue?

It's getting there if you have expensive electricity.

Antminer S3+, $210 USD, 450 GH/s

income = $2/day
electricity@$.15/kwh = $1.25/day.

I'm not growing my farm now, but the income and spare heat is quite nice this winter.

These attract VAT+duty when imported in the EU, so the total comes around 250USD. Then you need a PSU, so let's say 30USD more.
Total = 280USD

Basically these will never see break even.
Here in the UK these will bring 0.30GBP profit daily  Shocked




this.

we should be seeing a far bigger drop in difficulty than we are. however, from what I see across these forums, there seems to be even more new miners than there was last year at this point. insane.
the only reason I still have 8TH/s running is because my electric is free. If it wasn't for that, I doubt very much i'd have such 'confidence in the price of bitcoin'

 Undecided

I don't think we will see a very big drop in difficulty, because mining has moved from the home of the average person to large industrial data centres where they pay cheap electricity rates.
So these mining companies are still very much profitable.

indeed, i can't argue against any of that comment. In fact, i very much doubt we will see any decrease in the difficulty in the rest of 2014.
so... it's all going to boil down to who has the cheapest electric costs? (Dr Bunsen and Beaker will be rubbing their hands at this!)

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
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November 24, 2014, 03:42:42 PM
 #39316

I did ask for a refund a few months ago and declined of course. Was there another way to "cancel" the order ?

Well, I cannot say, yet, whether KnC's failure to meet the specification of "all scrypt applications" is sufficient for an across-the-board liability and obligation to honour every and all cancellation and refund request, however, given that my friend's company's legal challenge to KnC is within their asserted 'B2B' trade agreement meaning that, unlike a consumer product you cannot simply cancel on a whim, the fact they have failed to deliver a device which can work for all scrypt applications and were informed of the cancellation and refund request after they themselves had confirmed it could not mine on p2pool or fast-block-time coins, means the cancellation instruction was not made 'on a whim', but because of there being a serious deviation from the original specifications, with a limitation of use that was not disclosed at the time of purchase, it is possible that said product limitation will expose them to being obligated to give full refunds to anybody who asks for one, or it might be limited only to those cancellations and refunds they were advised of prior to despatch and based on the units being of limited use.

That they are grossly late in delivering these Titans is irrelevant because, as everybody observed months ago, all they had to do was ship one Titan out before the end of September, which I believe is what they did.

That the units didn't mine reliably or at the promised speeds was always going to see KnC excusing themselves with "the promised speeds were only estimates".

That there was now little-to-no chance of ever making ROI was, to be fair to KnC on this point, legally nothing to do with them.

A limitation of use, however, is something that must be disclosed at the time of sale/purchase for a product that would otherwise be reasonably assumed not to have such a limitation. No other scrypt ASIC miner on the market is sold with a limitation on where it can function, the Titan is the only one with such a limit and, even up to the end of last week KnC's sales web-page was touting the Titan as being able to be used "for all scrypt applications" when, the fact is, no, it cannot be used for all scrypt applications.

BTW, I realise actually that the removal of the "all scrypt applications" element of KnC's sales page on their website is because they have posted, "All litecoin mining hardware is currently sold-out."

Which means the offending text contained within the Titan sales description is not there anymore.

For those who miss its bold, confident, albeit false, assertion:
Quote
The Titan Scrypt Miner chip sports 2284 cores running 18272 threads. It can be utilised for any Scrypt-based application

So, KnC, any chance of answering this gentleman's valid question?
http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/69437-when-will-the-titan-be-able-to-mine-all-scrypt-based-coins


In my (lay) opinion, this is the very best legal argument available for a refund - the product they delivered was not the product they advertised. I am surprised to see that prominent actions against KNC have not adopted it, preferring the '14 day cooling off' regulations for consumer customers and 'time is of the essence' argument for business customers.

luffy
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November 24, 2014, 03:47:16 PM
 #39317

Well, i am still waiting for a refund asked during May for an order made on February!
Their answer is the same always, "sorry for the delay, you refund is in its way"  Angry
vesperwillow
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November 24, 2014, 04:50:12 PM
 #39318

Well, i am still waiting for a refund asked during May for an order made on February!
Their answer is the same always, "sorry for the delay, you refund is in its way"  Angry

AKA, they haven't mined it yet.

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November 24, 2014, 08:09:52 PM
 #39319

Since you guys are still taking about KNC here, I am not sure if anyone has seen this...

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-118

I am not sure what to make of KNC's position on the extra miners that the B1 and B2 owners (including myself) are still waiting for after seeing this and no mention of the Neptune's under their Bitcoin Mining section on their main page.

Thanks,
Marvell1
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November 24, 2014, 08:56:38 PM
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I am so glad I got out of the mining game and managed to do it at the correct time.

Btw what is the current lowest price for GH/s for a complete product and have we reached the point where the electricity cost has surpassed the mining revenue?

It's getting there if you have expensive electricity.

Antminer S3+, $210 USD, 450 GH/s

income = $2/day
electricity@$.15/kwh = $1.25/day.

I'm not growing my farm now, but the income and spare heat is quite nice this winter.

These attract VAT+duty when imported in the EU, so the total comes around 250USD. Then you need a PSU, so let's say 30USD more.
Total = 280USD

Basically these will never see break even.
Here in the UK these will bring 0.30GBP profit daily  Shocked




this.

we should be seeing a far bigger drop in difficulty than we are. however, from what I see across these forums, there seems to be even more new miners than there was last year at this point. insane.
the only reason I still have 8TH/s running is because my electric is free. If it wasn't for that, I doubt very much i'd have such 'confidence in the price of bitcoin'

 Undecided

I don't think we will see a very big drop in difficulty, because mining has moved from the home of the average person to large industrial data centres where they pay cheap electricity rates.
So these mining companies are still very much profitable.

posts like these crack me up ...

the average miner is invested in equipment they cant sell , so why would they stop mining ?

even if you make $10 a day per 1.5TH after electicity of .13cents/watt its still free HEAT and free $$

in spring and summer when things warm up and you have to spend $$ on cooling that 1.5 TH things will change. 

Its pretty much clear that any gains made in the global hashrate over this winter will be erased quite dramatically when summer starts up again next year

and all these winter miners have to finally dump their hardware.



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