Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Bitcoinorama]

At a guess, if they don't get parts they need by tomo, with it being the weekend; a next chance for delivery would be Mon. If they needed the weekend to work with parts, I'd imagine you we looking at day of delivery +2 or 3 days before an open day. So I'd assume there still will be one next week?

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[KS]

@bitcoinorama:

Since you're chums, why don't you ask Sam to send us a copy of the annual report. Won't be long now...

Seriously drop it. I just did what anyone else should have done and contacted the guy using an email in this thread and asked genuinely helpful questions, as you can see.  I'm not the only one he has replied to, and I'd sooner be proactive than reactive based on zero evidence to the contrary.

If I don't like what I see once they actually supplied something worth being critical of, believe me I will be vocal about it. As of this moment they've yet to butcher an old ATX board and superglue component parts and photoshop fake chips, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Also, I'm not 100% sure about this, but aren't annual reports by their very nature yearly?

I'm not sure what value you see in the "answers" provided, they do nothing to instill confidence.

RE the annual reports, the dates stated on bolagsverket (sorry to the Swedes if I butchered it) and Deloitte are not the same. One states they need to be sent on January 31st latest, the other June 30th. There could be a distinction between private and public AB, but that wasn't clear.

I have put a preorder in to hedge my bets (hey, it's free so far...), but they won't see a dime before proving without any doubt they're legit and capable or pulling this out. And right now, they don't look either to me.

Right now I'm reserving my money for serious projects like the Avalon ASIC/ Klondike one.

I'm not saying they instil confidence, I'm saying I'd rather they be given the opportunity to answer questions and rather than watch a load of naysayers bitching back and fourth, I pulled my finger out and asked. I then shared their answers with everybody so you can digest and hopefully come to a more informed opinion along the way.

It certainly has't cost me anything to ask, aside a little time. It also hasn't cost them anything to respond and the more transparent they are the better, which is what Phin was stating above. They've seen first hand BFL and to some extent Avalon's mistakes, so there is no excuse to make them again.

The more information the better, but talk is cheap, what matters is whether they can develop, manufacture and deliver...on time and hopefully ahead of the DIYers and potentially most of BFL's preorders. Monday is hopefully a step closer to answering that, and ultimately this is what those attending need to ascertain beyond reasonable doubt.

Trolling and being anything less than constructive doesn't affect KnC, but it certainly muddles any means of keeping information clear so informed decision to be made. It's pretty obvious on paper they have the ability to attempt this project and that their intentions aren't necessarily untoward. Still none of that matters unless we know they are capable of completing the project, and completing it on time.

My money's staying with me unless I have total confidence they can manufacture and deliver an ASIC with the power they've stated in September and that I'm covered buy buyer's protection. I'm certainly not handing any cash over for an ASIC unless I've seen them demonstrate a Saturn/Jupiter prototype with ASICs operating at their given specification working in front of me. They've said they can do this, so let them. Any criticism to the contrary without reasonable proven substance behind it is just noise, and we have a huge chunk of 60+ pages of that.

Now, can we get back to thinking up some worthwhile questions, and suggestions, for the guys heading to the meet on Monday?

I am *so* NOT worried about the technical part. ORSoC will do the job, they will show a working prototype. I mean, they already have working FPGA boards, how could they NOT make a prototype?

Where there is a lot of doubt is in their ability to 1/ finance the project and 2/ not run away with the money.

I have several friends with bad stories (basically fugged by their best mates). When the stakes get high and the profits start to roll in... We're talking between half- and a million USD. Imagine when KnC will have a thousand preorders for their miners. Will they run, will they stay?

[johnyj]

1 million USD can only get you 3-4 IT consultants for a year in Stockholm

[KS]

1 million USD can only get you 3-4 IT consultants for a year in Stockholm

7000 USD x 1000 = 7 million.

1 IT consultant for 21 years, in Stockholm.

[Bitcoinorama]

1 million USD can only get you 3-4 IT consultants for a year in Stockholm

7000 USD x 1000 = 7 million.

1 IT consultant for 21 years, in Stockholm.

Screw the mining, and pack your bags!!!

[Bitcoinorama]

I am *so* NOT worried about the technical part. ORSoC will do the job, they will show a working prototype. I mean, they already have working FPGA boards, how could they NOT make a prototype?

Where there is a lot of doubt is in their ability to 1/ finance the project and 2/ not run away with the money.

I have several friends with bad stories (basically fugged by their best mates). When the stakes get high and the profits start to roll in... We're talking between half- and a million USD. Imagine when KnC will have a thousand preorders for their miners. Will they run, will they stay?

Ok cool, so taking that into account and with the knowledge they have agreed to accept both Paypal and Credit Card payments which offer some buyer protection within a given period (approx 45 days / six weeks for Paypal) what questions do you believe need to be addressed either via email, or in person?

Assuming they demonstrate their FPGA and can have that shipped in a manner of weeks, money should be safe there.

With respect to the ASIC, the FPGA payment was for ASIC development funds I believe, was it not? So it would be fair for KnC to request payment for Jupiter/Saturn no earlier than 6 weeks before Jupiter/Saturn's delivery date based on queue positioning and units per day to be made. Is that fair?

Also you state 1,000 units. But I was under the impression it's a 500 unit run to begin with. Followed by a second 500 unit run, like Avalon has done. So they won't be requesting funds from both runs at the same time. Especially as some people may be positioned in both. The entire point in the Mars FPGA was because the first 500 are taking a greater risk by purchasing the FPGA. KnC raise sufficient development funds whilst prooving they can handle a volume order, and the first 500 have something to mine with as an act of faith, even though it won't be a hugely profitable act of faith once the hashrate goes ballistic.

[Henchman24]

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but I wasn't reading through this entire thread to find out.

According to specs, the 6GH "Mars" has 48 chips, each having a retail price of $315 USD, according to both of the links provided on their site.

What am I missing here?  How do you sell $15K worth of chips for ~$2k?

[rograz]

What am I missing here?  How do you sell $15K worth of chips for ~$2k?

You buy used ones

[Henchman24]

What am I missing here?  How do you sell $15K worth of chips for ~$2k?

You buy used ones

Have they stated they're using used chips?

[mgio]

I "ordered" a Mars, but I didn't see any option to pay. How does that work? They e-mailed me a copy of my order but haven't asked for any money. Is this typical?

[Bitcoinorama]

I "ordered" a Mars, but I didn't see any option to pay. How does that work? They e-mailed me a copy of my order but haven't asked for any money. Is this typical?

You haven't ordered anything, you are just at the back of a pre-order queue.

[mgio]

I "ordered" a Mars, but I didn't see any option to pay. How does that work? They e-mailed me a copy of my order but haven't asked for any money. Is this typical?

You haven't ordered anything, you are just at the back of a pre-order queue.

Yes, I know, I "pre-ordered" it. Has anyone actually paid yet or are they not taking money until the product is ready? If so, what stops everyone from "pre-ordering" one just to hold their place in line?

[Bitcoinorama]

I "ordered" a Mars, but I didn't see any option to pay. How does that work? They e-mailed me a copy of my order but haven't asked for any money. Is this typical?

You haven't ordered anything, you are just at the back of a pre-order queue.

Yes, I know, I "pre-ordered" it. Has anyone actually paid yet or are they not taking money until the product is ready? If so, what stops everyone from "pre-ordering" one just to hold their place in line?

Sorry, you haven't pre-ordered either you just have a place at the back.

There's been no monies paid.

All your answers are either in this thread or on the site you so eagerly just clicked through. You should take the time to acknowledge what you are doing. I just saved your ass from getting scammed by some guy on eBay no more than an hour ago and immediately your jumping from one pan to the next.

What's worse was the eBay thing was a blatant scam from the off, you did no due diligence and had already bid on it, only to have your ass saved by the fact someone outbid you. You had no idea how you were going to pay as you hadn't bothered to check whether your choice of payment was sufficient for such a purchase and you were about to pay a ludicrous amount for it anyway as a second-chance offer as the guy was blatantly trying to rip you off as well as the person that won it.

On top of which I never even received a thank-you for pointing out something you should have researched anyway and saving you from loosing in excess of $25k. Now you're asking questions without any research again, and jumping into pre-orders without fully understanding what you are actually agreeing to, let alone what the general consensus is on these products. How can you be this irresponsible?

[mgio]

I "ordered" a Mars, but I didn't see any option to pay. How does that work? They e-mailed me a copy of my order but haven't asked for any money. Is this typical?

You haven't ordered anything, you are just at the back of a pre-order queue.

Yes, I know, I "pre-ordered" it. Has anyone actually paid yet or are they not taking money until the product is ready? If so, what stops everyone from "pre-ordering" one just to hold their place in line?

Sorry, you haven't pre-ordered either you just have a place at the back.

There's been no monies paid.

All your answers are either in this thread or on the site you so eagerly just clicked through. You should take the time to acknowledge what you are doing. I just saved your ass from getting scammed by some guy on eBay no more than an hour ago and immediately your jumping from one pan to the next.

What's worse was the eBay thing was a blatant scam from the off, you did no due diligence and had already bid on it, only to have your ass saved by the fact someone outbid you. You had no idea how you were going to pay as you hadn't bothered to check whether your choice of payment was sufficient for such a purchase and you were about to pay a ludicrous amount for it anyway as a second-chance offer as the guy was blatantly trying to rip you off as well as the person that won it.

On top of which I never even received a thank-you for pointing out something you should have researched anyway and saving you from loosing in excess of $25k. Now you're asking questions without any research again, and jumping into pre-orders without full understanding what you are actually agreeing to.

Wow, you're a jerk. What crawled up your ass today? Why would I thank you? All you did was taunt me in the other thread without providing any useful information.

I read most of this thread on kncminer.com and I was here when the thread started. It's been mostly 60+ pages of crap since then. After reading for an hour, I figured it would be simpler to ask. I haven't taken any risk with KNCminer as, like you acknowledged, haven't sent them any money! 

I noticed you'd rather argue about semantics rather than provide any USEFUL information. KNCMiner calls it "pre-ordering" so that's the term I'm using.
You see that button on their site. It says "pre-order". Yes, I mean that one. Maybe you've never been to their site and are just here to troll.

btw, I would never spend over 25k on an Avalon batch 2 miner. I've never even bid anywhere close to that amount. They aren't worth that much and won't return that kind of money. The 2nd chance offer was for $12,300 if you must know. Ebay doesn't require you to pay for items that are a scam. You didn't save me from anything. They also don't specifiy what the transaction limits are. They are purposely vague about that and imply that if you have a verified account you won't be subject to the same limit. Even worse, is they don't leave with an alternative if it is over that limit.

[Bitcoinorama]

What?! Taunt you?? Where exactly???;

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207594.msg2173640#msg2173640

You lying ingrate! I went out of my way to help you and set the record straight on the scammer. Everything damn word I said was of use.

And this is the ever so legitimate eBay listing which finished for $27,000 which you claimed to be given a second chance offer for at half the value and was about to follow through with. That was kind of him to offer you such a huge discount on a product he was just about to finally receive at such an opportune time;

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=321125204211&kw=321125204211

And instead of reading 60 pages here from the beginning, why don't you go back to the KNCminer site and spend 5 minutes more than the 30 seconds you spent there, you'll find your answers repeated under the news, FAQ, product and payment sections ironically.

And you have the front to call me a jerk?! Wow...

[dan99]

I am more concern about their Asic than the FPGA .. and with all the previous digging about their background they are who they are ..the only thing now that kind of worries me is the delivery dateline, now the demo is supposed to be next Monday and the parts hasn't arrived yet, sure they would need a day or so to assemble and testing before showing them .. just hope they could still make it. 

[Emmie]

And you have the front to call me a jerk?! Wow...

You gave him words of advice, and he took it as direct personal insults rather than constructive critique on how he should go about these things. He doesn't seem able to admit when he has a behaviour that can be improved. But it's his loss to deny self-improvement.

[daggeteo]

I'd like to reiterate msg #1203

I might be going cause i've allready put in a late order, also i'm really close by.

Make a wish list for photos and questions and either me or some other nice swede will comply =) 
To make the list manageble just ad a row starting with a *, then define if it's a (Q)uestion or a (P)hoto related request.

COPY LIST and then ADD you request =)

Example:
* Q - Ask them about psu requirements
* P - Try to get a close up of the mounted fpgas
and so on

If i make it there i hope and will try my best to do so, i will try to make the most out of the visit for me and for you too!

If my schedule allows it I will attend this event, as it is now I should be able to attend. As a favour to this community I will try and comply with as many requests as possible. This is a chance to find out things that you wish to know. It's a win for all of us, you learn something, I learn something.

Incase I won't be able the list will still be here for others who intend to go.

[dan99]

noted but we hope you could really go ... that would be awesome thanks for taking the initiative

[Bitcoinorama]

I'd like to reiterate msg #1203

I might be going cause i've allready put in a late order, also i'm really close by.

Make a wish list for photos and questions and either me or some other nice swede will comply =)  
To make the list manageble just ad a row starting with a *, then define if it's a (Q)uestion or a (P)hoto related request.

COPY LIST and then ADD you request =)

Example:
* Q - Ask them about psu requirements
* P - Try to get a close up of the mounted fpgas
and so on

If i make it there i hope and will try my best to do so, i will try to make the most out of the visit for me and for you too!

If my schedule allows it I will attend this event, as it is now I should be able to attend. As a favour to this community I will try and comply with as many requests as possible. This is a chance to find out things that you wish to know. It's a win for all of us, you learn something, I learn something.

Incase I won't be able the list will still be here for others who intend to go.

Cool, thank-you! Are you aware that they emailed JohnyJ and it may not be on Monday now? They were waiting for a part delivery and it may not have arrived before the weekend. Just double check with JJ or Sam as to when or if the meet has been rescheduled...