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Question: Did we reach the bottom already?
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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25711301 times)
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October 06, 2020, 08:52:10 AM

Not to defend McAfee but an international arrest warrant for tax evasion is not really great (and I'm not condoning tax evasion).

He should have stayed in a country that is a bit less a puppet of the US.

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October 06, 2020, 08:59:26 AM

McAfee

Wrong...

international arrest warrant for tax evasion

...and wronger.  Do not make right.

He should have stayed in a country that is a bit less a puppet of the US.

LOL.  Which?

Neither of them would want him; and one is overtly Communist.
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October 06, 2020, 09:18:23 AM

LOL.  Which?

Neither of them would want him; and one is overtly Communist.

I'm not sure which one you mean, but since he speaks Spanish, Cuba should be fine.
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October 06, 2020, 09:30:17 AM


[edited out]

I am saying that they can’t have their Bitcake and eat it, too.

I don’t fancy that I could stop “those kinds of BIGGER players”, a.k.a. massive financial manipulators, from creating risky derivative clusterfucks.  I have said that a few times, in various places here.  My point is about regulation—especially, but not only, extra-jursidictional regulation by the Americans!

In the long term, the financial instruments and practices that I criticize can survive only in a regulated environment—viz., in the type of systemically corrupt-by-design regulatory environment at which Americans most excel (although with the advanced Progress™ of the current year, no country is very much better in that regard).  

Of course, with the passage of time, legal and financial systems become more complicated and intertwined, and I am with you.  I do not necessarily presume that all passage of time brings progress or that all societal changes are progressing towards better.. those are social constructions that are dangerous to presume.

Bitcoin does provide incentives and options that have the potential to make some of the traditional systems to become more honest - but we should NOT expect that those old systems are going to just go away with a kind of "poof" sound.


There, they are protected from natural consequences.  Quotable nullius:  In the soil of regulatory corruption, the seeds of folly grow “too big to fail”.  You know the end of that road!  “The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks”  Right back where we started.

Bitcoin can get along much better without Nanny American-CFTC pretending to protect it, and actually doing the long-term opposite.  

How you gonna keep them out?  I don't have a problem trying to figure out ways to make systems evolve better, but there still seems to be ONLY so much any of us can do before we start fantasizing about the ought rather than attempting to structure our own finances and psychology for the "is" rather than various forms of the "ought" that may or may not come about.

Let people do things that I dislike with Bitcoin; no matter how I may wish that I were Imperator, dictator perpetuo with the power to stop them, it seems that I’m not, and I can’t.  

Sure.. there is only so much that each of us can do, and of course, some people become motivated to change their position in order to have more influences in making changes that they would like to see, too.


And they are not protected from failing.  

Whether quickly or slowly, sure.

Some of us would like some of the shitcoins to die, too, and largely we have to figure out ways to deal with them, because some of them are going to end up surviving way longer than we would like, and perhaps even longer than they should.

All shitcoins, be gone!!!!!!!!    I have just proclaimed, it.   Shocked Shocked Shocked   Let me look outside and see if any changes have taken place.    Tongue Tongue Tongue

Ultimately, when the moral hazards created by regulations go away, people must learn to stop doing the hazardous things—or else, the people creating the hazards just go bankrupt.  As I have said before, in Bitcoin, the risk is not systemic.

I must disclose that you are starting to evolve (or perhaps devolve) into more abstraction than I am willing to entertain... #nohomo.


—Unless, that is, Bitcoiners get the attitude that we need to recreate the exact same financial system that we are trying to escape.  But now, with Blockchain™!  “The Times 03/Jan/2029 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for Blockchain banks”

Damn, on which point did I recently find myself quoting Karl Marx!?
Not that I would expect for [most people] to know enough political theory to be self-aware on this point—or to possess self-awareness on any point.


“Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice.  He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.” — Karl Marx


A stage prop.
Blockchain needs Blockchain regulation for Blockchain banks to Blockchain innovate Blockchain in the Blockchain digital assets market Fintech Blockchain Blockchain Blockchain Blockchain Blockchain Blockchain B̵͚̪̼̦͝l̶̝͈̀o̴̯̮̓̇̽̽c̵̝̪̘̜̊̄̎k̴̹͔̝̺͋̾̋̀̾͠͝ͅc̷̛̣͐̐͗͆̎̅h̶̢̭̥̻̘̔́̒͐̈͂̐͜â̴̧̼͈̼̦̅͝i̸͇͈͚̚͘n̸̜̤͙͌̊͛ ̴͕̗͍̜͈̤͓͑͝B̷͎͍̤̥̥̲́̅l̷̛̙̐̉̃͋̕͝ǒ̷̼̹͇̱̳̒c̶̥̯̋̃ḳ̷̑ĉ̵̱͑͛͝h̵̳̦͚̣̓̂̚ͅa̵̹̿͗̀͜͝i̶̢͎͎̺͎̩̪̋̏̔̚͠͠n̶̟̟̯͓͇̘̖͒͊̅̓̄͝ ̶̨̲̪̟̘̫̀B̵̞̲̮͚͈̾͂̈́̊̆͜͠l̸̙̠͈̗̖̫̥̊̔͑́͘̕͝o̷̢̜͍̟̬̍͘͠č̸̘͠k̶͎̜͎̔͛̈́̾̚c̸͈͆h̷͚̞͍̞͛̾̉̈̓̆ͅa̴̫̬̱͖̩͓͒̒̈́̅̈́̅̕ͅì̷̢̪̻̄̒͊n̴̨̛̹̭̙̜̋́̌́͂ͅ ̴̗̪̰̤͙͇́̆͒͒B̵̳̘̄l̸͕͓̣̈̑͗̊͘͘ơ̷̧̻̠̞̫̈́͗c̸͍̠̮̪̟̪̽̓̃̒̾̕k̸̠̯̤͈͎͚̮͘͘č̴̗̼͍̒̈̃͠ḧ̸̨̗̩̠̫̀͑̐̚a̶̯̺̤͍̰̽ȋ̵̡͓̤͈͍̞̘̇̕n̴̨̢̢̟̪̫̾͒̈̒͝ ̸̩̟̥̆ͅB̶̨̨̰̯̮̪̣̏͊̊l̶̢̡̛̻̱̄͛͝͝ǫ̶̺̦͌̈́̕c̸̪̈́̅͒̋̕͘͜ͅk̸̛̺͐c̷̢̛̻̽͊̍́̋͝ͅh̵̢̻̣̰̪͕̜̄͑â̸̯̠i̶͖̣̺͗̈́̈́̓͒͝n̴̖̘͂ ̶̠̠̭̞̕B̸̹̘̑l̷͙̘̻̺̥̤̋̈́̀ơ̷̳̮̅̾̽̅̑c̷̡̦̘̖͛͐͆̃̚͜ͅk̷̃̃̑͋̕͘͜ç̸̣̽͐͐h̴͈̻̳͂̓̔͋́̋ậ̵̞̪̼̈́̏͋́̚͠i̵͔͖͉̾͌͆͆̈́̑ͅn̷̛̠͓͔̦̪͌́ͅ ̷̨̖̺̫̺̄B̴͓̣̬̮͚͓̓̽l̵̼̟̻̰̥̫͛̏̓̕ǫ̴̡͕̝̤̩̌ͅc̵̫̭̝̉̃͌̕͝k̴͈̥̹͚̞̥̉͂̑ċ̷̪̮̘̈́͠h̷͇͋̐͗͜a̵̛̲͗̊͌ï̷̡̯̟͔͠ň̶̺̥͍͕͎ͅ ̶̡̡̝́̋̌͒́ͅB̵̨̭̣̮̯͑͜l̵̬̣̻͔͖̈́̀̂͗͝͝ơ̵̢̘̯̰̎͐̑̃c̸͉̼͚͎͔͓͌̃̕ͅk̶̎̀̍̃̊̌͜c̷̖̋̋h̶̗͚̮̱̞̹̑̎̌͝a̷̧͇͚͓͆̅̚ȉ̶̳̽͒̓̈́̿ǹ̴̫̼̰ ̵̲̮͈̜̪̜̇̉̃͛͝B̷̧̖̰̽̎̋̎̔̈́͠l̸̖̬̩̏͌͛̈̀̄o̴̰͙̅͒͌͆̄̓͜͝ċ̷͓̊̄͌̉͠k̷̢̪̰̙̝̀̏c̵̲̳͔̹̽̍͒̑͜ḣ̴̪͎̱͍̭̋̀͒̅a̵̝̭̻̰̟̋͌͝i̴̯̜̦̻̓̀̓̍͌̀͝n̷̡͚̦̖͊̈̏ ̶̧͕̜͛̀̀̓B̷̧̭̠̦̮̋̓͝l̶͔̻̂͐̃̒͝ȍ̶͖̼͉̣͛̃̈̽c̵̫͈̹̫͚͔̊̆͋͐͜ķ̴̧̰͋̿̑c̴̨̛͕̠̯̱̣̭͂̑h̶͙͈̙́ͅa̴̞̱̟̩̞͈̝͋͝i̵̧̪̰͆̀̃ņ̵͍̞̝̀͐̚ ̴̖͒́B̴̬̐̆͐l̶̢̧̲̤̰͖͐̂͐̽ǫ̵̧̰̥̗̰̃c̷̬̫̹̫̈́̓͋́̋k̵̪̮̉c̶̹͂́͐̉̅̅͝ͅẖ̵͕̖͙̖̪̆̓̉͒̅̓̌ǎ̴̛̫̼̩͙̓͒̈̑͝i̸̜̝͍̻͐̓̿̈́͜͠ṋ̴̨̫̭̟̔̕͜ ̷̤̘̘̙̝̽͛͑͆̂̚͜B̸̢̪̳̰̐͋́̅͐̚͘l̶̼͔͈̜͌̏ỏ̴̞͜c̴̭͙̞̜͊͂̈̈́͑̕k̵͔͕̞̳̂̈́͒͗̎c̵̡̟̥̝̏h̴̖̩̫͑͠ä̶̢̡̛͙̲̦́̐̽̑͘͝į̷̩̯̩̹̈́͊́͘n̸̳̠̅̑


Extra boldface has been added to this post, because I’m afraid the size=smaller parts of my above-quoted post were too shy to get attention.

N.b., I am NOT a follower of Rand, or Rothbard, or Mises, any of those schools of thought that are so popular in this space.  I don’t idealize Capitalism—to the contrary; as a modern dogma, it is the flipside of Communism.  (Title of Marxist Bible: Capital.)  I am not a votive at the altar of the Invisible Hand of the Free Market.  I do not fancy that market economics could create Utopia (or, for that matter, that Utopia would not actually be Dystopia).

Of course, we have a combination of a variety of values in which bitcoin's global impact helps us to reconsider some of the various paradigms and where bitcoin might fit into already existing systems and societal thought patters around how some of these systems are rewarding /punishing people.

I simply realize that at this point in history, the very best that we can do is to NOT take “cures” that are worse than the disease.  

You are referring to the "royal we?"  Each of us does need to figure out our place in bitcoin, and surely if we want to attempt to influence legislation, banking or judicial systems, we might need to get involved in some of those areas.  Alternatively, there is development, too.  Or just sitting back and commenting on various forums and hoping some others are inspired by our thoughts?

Hailing the intervention of the American CFTC in the Bitcoin markets outside American jurisdiction is like infecting yourself with HIV because you are worried about Covid.  You still have the original worry—and now, you have a much worse problem!


I do think that we have to take some of these institutional interventions (like the CFTC) with a grain of salt, and so you are correct that we might not want to just start applauding them without some skepticisms... even though some people do want these kinds of institutional and governmental interventions to feel more comfortable with bitcoin as an investment or even to feel more comfortable holding it or using it.


I said earlier in this thread about BitMEX, in reply to ivomm’s speculation about CME (so to speak), with boldface in the original:

If it is not something that can be done safely in an unregulated market, then maybe you shouldn’t be doing it in an unregulated market.  Don’t try to create the clusterfork of the bank-run financial markets in Bitcoin.

Thus concluded a post which began, with large boldface in the original:

Who appointed the United States and its institutions to supervise Bitcoin?

Many or even most governments likely feel that they do not need an invitation, so there is that angle, too.
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October 06, 2020, 09:59:12 AM
Merited by 600watt (1)

@JJG

I don’t think Bitmex-gate is going to affect us too much. I’m still thinking that we moon in 2021, there is perhaps a chance that covid could stop us going as high as we would have but yeah, I still think we moon next year.

Fair enough.  I am largely with you, even if, perhaps, for slightly differing reasons.. and of course, part of my request for clarification came from some seemingly slight changes in some of your outline of our expected future with lil fiend.. minor as they may have been.

Personally, I believe that there are macro events that could shake bitcoin off of the various underlying fundamentals that differentiate bitcoin from other asset classes that are also captured in the dominant BTC price prediction models... and so far, we do not really seem to be seeing any kinds of substantive or meaningful divergences from already outlined path expectations.

[...]

Thanks, AlcoHoDL.

Thanks Jay, for your long (as always [saying this in a good way]), but thorough and merit-worthy reply, I appreciate it.

We are in agreement, and there's no need to reiterate what you already know.

Since we are posting in a public thread, sometimes as a courtesy, we (royal) do post some of topical matters in more detail than necessary for the benefit of others... so a little repetition tends to play out from time to time for those of us willing to bear such repetitions...

Of course, there are quite a few regular WO peeps who I have pretty decent confidence (faith) that do "get it" but every once in a while we witness surprises, too... mindrust.. cough, cough.. .. and also, face-melting BTC price moves or even long-ass periods of seeming irrational BTC price performances, sometimes can cause a few of us to enter locations closer to our psychological limits than we would prefer to acknowledge.
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October 06, 2020, 10:15:04 AM


Who appointed the United States and its institutions to supervise Bitcoin?

Many or even most governments likely feel that they do not need an invitation, so there is that angle, too.

This was not unexpected:

*UK FCA BANS SALE OF CRYPTO-DERIVATIVES TO RETAIL CUSTOMERS
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October 06, 2020, 10:15:38 AM

[...]

Thanks, AlcoHoDL.

Thanks Jay, for your long (as always [saying this in a good way]), but thorough and merit-worthy reply, I appreciate it.

We are in agreement, and there's no need (for me) to reiterate what you already know.

Since we are posting in a public thread, sometimes as a courtesy, we (royal) do post some of topical matters in more detail than necessary for the benefit of others... so a little repetition tends to play out from time to time for those of us willing to bear such repetitions...

Of course, there are quite a few regular WO peeps who I have pretty decent confidence (faith) that do "get it" but every once in a while we witness surprises, too... mindrust.. cough, cough.. .. and also, face-melting BTC price moves or even long-ass periods of seeming irrational BTC price performances, sometimes can cause a few of us to enter locations closer to our psychological limits than we would prefer to acknowledge.

Just to clarify, my above highlighted text (in green) was not directed at your quoted long reply, but rather, it was meant to explain my very short reply to it (i.e., I don't need to reply in detail, since we are in agreement). Your reply was long (as always [saying this in a good way]), but well-written, and would deserve a longer answer, but I'm just far too busy with RL matters, so I just wanted to tell you not to take my short reply the wrong way...
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October 06, 2020, 10:27:27 AM

[...]

Thanks, AlcoHoDL.

Thanks Jay, for your long (as always [saying this in a good way]), but thorough and merit-worthy reply, I appreciate it.

We are in agreement, and there's no need (for me) to reiterate what you already know.

Since we are posting in a public thread, sometimes as a courtesy, we (royal) do post some of topical matters in more detail than necessary for the benefit of others... so a little repetition tends to play out from time to time for those of us willing to bear such repetitions...

Of course, there are quite a few regular WO peeps who I have pretty decent confidence (faith) that do "get it" but every once in a while we witness surprises, too... mindrust.. cough, cough.. .. and also, face-melting BTC price moves or even long-ass periods of seeming irrational BTC price performances, sometimes can cause a few of us to enter locations closer to our psychological limits than we would prefer to acknowledge.

Just to clarify, my above highlighted text (in green) was not directed at your quoted long reply, but rather, it was meant to explain my very short reply to it (i.e., I don't need to reply in detail, since we are in agreement). Your reply was long (as always [saying this in a good way]), but well-written, and would deserve a longer answer, but I'm just far too busy with RL matters, so I just wanted to tell you not to take my short reply the wrong way...

No problem.. .Thanks for the clarification.. I did not take any of it in any kind of personal way..

As you likely realize, I will frequently find almost any excuse to rant about some random idea that I may be thinking and may not even have had anything to do with the original post...

Yes, ... also, RL obligations.   I can relate... ... I mentioned previously that I had been going over some of my security issues and even some matters related to passing on coins, in case something were to happen to me.  These kinds of matters can take a lot of time - and also reveal various compromises that happen along the way and even ways that security could be improved - if willing to put in a wee bit more efforts (that may or may not happen). 

I have found that whenever I spend some time to go through the process, then some of the security matters will end up improving through such process, though.  It's like having some kinds of security procedures, and if you you go through the process, at least, you remember what the process is, so that if certain kinds of shit does hit the fan, at least you have recently gone through the process (perhaps to be better prepared to deal with the shit hits the fan situation).
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October 06, 2020, 10:57:27 AM

@JJG

I don’t think Bitmex-gate is going to affect us too much. I’m still thinking that we moon in 2021, there is perhaps a chance that covid could stop us going as high as we would have but yeah, I still think we moon next year.


Now Now  LFC, the times of ATH are long gone Smiley , reminiscence of 2017 and keep it close to the heart Tongue
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October 06, 2020, 11:11:46 AM

If it is not something that can be done safely in an unregulated market, then maybe you shouldn’t be doing it in an unregulated market.  Don’t try to create the clusterfork of the bank-run financial markets in Bitcoin.

Thus concluded a post which began, with large boldface in the original:

Who appointed the United States and its institutions to supervise Bitcoin?
Bigger and bolder type  he is your answer:

Trump

If that is all that you got out of what I wrote, well...



You fancy that Bank-Owned Megalomaniac Biden (Diet Pepsi, (D)) be better than Bank-Owned Megalomaniac Trump (Coca-Cola, (R))?  (Or to others:  Vice versa?)  Protip:  They are both Americans.  They would both happily firebomb the whole world to smouldering rubble at the drop of a hat—or regulate Bitcoin into another bankster playground—or do whatever else the owners of the United States may desire.


Oh, this needs for me to pause from spending too much forum time in WO, and finish that thing that I have been intending to toss into P&S.  Meanwhile:

Universal suffrage is vote inflation.  Making everybody “free” by giving everybody a vote is like making everybody “rich” by printing lots of money.

Yes, that is an original observation on my part.  Analogy credit: nullius.

[...]

Tweedledum and Tweedledee

btc pre Trump inauguration Jan 2017 = 895 usd
btc post Trump inauguration Oct 2020 = 10,700 usd

btc ath    dec 2017 = 20,000 usd

looks like btc has thrived under Trumps administration

If I were to tell you Trump enacted the China tax for one reason only to restrict mining gear exportations would you think I know what I am talking about.

Or just be witty and clever.

There is a major play going on with BTC and it is being driven by Trump and China and Russia hand and hand and behind the scenes.

Did you ever watch USA wresting.

The Rock vs Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5gxlu0

That is USA vs China vs Russia

Vince McMahon is Trump and as we all know. He is the one making the money Wink

Mark my words when Trump gets reelected BTC will soar to 3x the old ATH

and lots of coins will be confiscated by USA + CHINA +  RUSSIA
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October 06, 2020, 11:38:29 AM

He should have stayed in a country that is a bit less a puppet of the US.

Hard to find one these days... China, Russia, Iran... quality of life might suck.

Even so, eventually he'll get tired and decide to take a vacation on some tropical island, the plane lands, and FBI agents surprise him there with the handcuffs.

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October 06, 2020, 01:35:36 PM

To those shitting on McAfee....
According to the Netflix doc about him... apparently he likes that....
....literally
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October 06, 2020, 02:14:08 PM

He should have stayed in a country that is a bit less a puppet of the US.

Hard to find one these days... China, Russia, Iran... quality of life might suck.

Even so, eventually he'll get tired and decide to take a vacation on some tropical island, the plane lands, and FBI agents surprise him there with the handcuffs.

I suggested Cuba, it's already a tropical island, they like dollars without letting the US in, I'm sure some people there like BTC too...
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October 06, 2020, 02:42:49 PM


God, he's looking even worse. Last saw him about 5-6 year ago and he looked bad then. Poor guy, aging well is a valuable thing in life.

Actually for a 74 year old who habitually does lines and drinks like a fish, you would think he would look a lot worse.

Also hilarious that he got paid in BTC for pumping shitcoins.  Cheesy
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October 06, 2020, 02:47:34 PM
Last edit: October 06, 2020, 03:17:51 PM by eXPHorizon


God, he's looking even worse. Last saw him about 5-6 year ago and he looked bad then. Poor guy, aging well is a valuable thing in life.

Actually for a 74 year old who habitually does lines and drinks like a fish, you would think he would look a lot worse.

Also hilarious that he got paid in BTC for pumping shitcoins.  Cheesy


And this dude had like what influence ? 0.1% on the price ? God why do people do this to themselves  Grin
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We choose to go to the moon


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October 06, 2020, 03:27:44 PM

He should have stayed in a country that is a bit less a puppet of the US.

Hard to find one these days... China, Russia, Iran... quality of life might suck.

Even so, eventually he'll get tired and decide to take a vacation on some tropical island, the plane lands, and FBI agents surprise him there with the handcuffs.

I suggested Cuba, it's already a tropical island, they like dollars without letting the US in, I'm sure some people there like BTC too...

And then... guilty for 'violating sanctions', like Bobby Fisher.
El duderino_
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October 06, 2020, 03:56:36 PM

Btw .... BTC for the longest period ever above 10K mark??

Another win for my favorite

 Cool Cool
El duderino_
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October 06, 2020, 03:58:25 PM
Merited by Biodom (1), 600watt (1)

"Since 2010, inflation has turned $1 into 84 cents while $1 invested in Bitcoin would be worth $274,000." - @Cointelegraph
https://twitter.com/danheld/status/1313464187813875714?s=21

Wooooow
BitcoinGirl.Club
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Bitcoin is democracy! Run a full node


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October 06, 2020, 04:00:32 PM

May be a NO IDEA option needed

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October 06, 2020, 04:03:41 PM
Merited by 600watt (1)

For every dollar that goes into crypto the price rises $20-$25**. The millennial generation is poised to inherit $7T and they like crypto as an investment.

Research by @fundstrat.

** Estimated in 2018, it varies between market phases, higher in a bull market.
https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1313485412166443009?s=21
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