Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[realr0ach]

Bitcoin is not the entire knowledge age. It is a component and will serve its role.

None of your posts are compatible with each other.  One day you're claiming bitcoin is a "Rothschild" system of control, the next post you're claiming (in my summarized words) that bitcoin is a form of creative destruction to replace the previous dysfunctional system.  It's OBVIOUSLY not a form of creative destruction if it's a Rothschild scam.  It would mean pretty much nothing changes.  You also claim the expansion of entropy is a constant, which is generally true, then pretend nature is just going to allow some stagnant Rothschild dictatorship to last in perpetuity under bitcoin.

All of these ideas are completely incompatible.  As for my view, it does not matter who created bitcoin or for what reason.  It's a dysfunctional, inefficient, non-fungible, Rube Goldberg machine whose transaction validators are designed to centralize into a permissioned ledger of black lists, functioning only as a system of control and nothing else.  Therefore, it's obviously not creative destruction and nature will sweep it away like the garbage it is to cure that problem of the expansion of entropy and reduction in stagnation.

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[bitebits]

MtGox enters Civil Rehabilitation:
https://mtgox-creditors.com/

Fingers crossed...

Is it already known how the creditors will be credited, fiat or bitcoin?

Still good news for the decentralization of Bitcoin if indeed the surplus is not distributed to just a few shareholders of MtGox.

[Majormax]

By the end of July we shall see price above $10k.

Not going to happen.

Just as likely to see price at 2k.

Random move, 4k up or 4k down. No analysis.

[El duderino_]

For the rest when the game runs as late as yesterday .......

the fun part is NOBODY on the table needed coffee when we all SAW BTC down 8-9 % 

[samson]

MtGox enters Civil Rehabilitation:
https://mtgox-creditors.com/

Fingers crossed...

Is it already known how the creditors will be credited, fiat or bitcoin?

Still good news for the decentralization of Bitcoin if indeed the surplus is not distributed to just a few shareholders of MtGox.

I believe it should be a mix of both Bitcoin and cash. The trustee in charge of MtGox already has enough money in the bank to cover all the original claims which was about $450 million, maybe more - I think.

My guess would be that he pays a mixture of fiat and BTC as I'm very sure a massive percentage of people who claim Bitcoin will all want Bitcoin back and I really doubt he will buy Bitcoin to make payments.

[El duderino_]

Was looking like $6000 would hold.

Whales pushing hard now, this is going under $6000 in the next hour

Looks like Doug Polk just lost his bet a few minutes ago.    

[JayJuanGee]

By the end of July we shall see price above $10k.

Not going to happen.

Just as likely to see price at 2k.

Random move, 4k up or 4k down. No analysis.

Do you really have conviction about what you just posted?  Aren't you exaggerating, Majormax?  

Do you really believe that the odds of BTC's price going to $2k or $10k is the same?  

That means 50/50 odds, no?

Personally, I would give higher odds that BTC would reach and exceed $10k before touching $2k or going below that.   I have a decently strong perspective that BTC will NEVER see $2k again, but odds of reaching $10k are quite high, especially the longer the time frame, perhaps greater than 75%.  

If you really believe that the odds are 50/50, but I have pretty strong feelings that the odds are greater than 50/50 that BTC prices will touch on and/or exceed $10k first, then that might be worth some kind of gentleman's bet, no?  Do you feel strongly enough to bet some kind of token amount?  Maybe something in the .001BTC territory?

[El duderino_]

By the end of July we shall see price above $10k.

Not going to happen.

Just as likely to see price at 2k.

Random move, 4k up or 4k down. No analysis.

Do you really have conviction about what you just posted?  Aren't you exaggerating, Majormax?  

Do you really believe that the odds of BTC's price going to $2k or $10k is the same?  

That means 50/50 odds, no?

Personally, I would give higher odds that BTC would reach and exceed $10k before touching $2k or going below that.   I have a decently strong perspective that BTC will NEVER see $2k again, but odds of reaching $10k are quite high, especially the longer the time frame, perhaps greater than 75%.  

If you really believe that the odds are 50/50, but I have pretty strong feelings that the odds are greater than 50/50 that BTC prices will touch on and/or exceed $10k first, then that might be worth some kind of gentleman's bet, no?  Do you feel strongly enough to bet some kind of token amount?  Maybe something in the .001BTC territory?

if there's a bet with some timeframe i wanna do it as well if majormax feeling strong enough

[bileq]

MT Gox Fud affected market for a while, its stopping but with other issues market is still going down.

[afbitcoins]

You know, as a business, you can accept zero confirmation transactions from both BTC and BCash.

For BTC = just wait 10 seconds. Even a cup of coffee can wait 10 seconds. It's zero confirmation, but you can almost safely accept the transaction if there are no double spend attempts after 10 seconds.

For BCash = just wait about 10 seconds also. Maybe 20 if you want to make sure. After a confirmation, send it to an exchange and market sell.

For anything else that costs more than a cup of coffee, I'm sure you can wait 10 minutes for a block; and if the transaction hasn't confirmed yet, it should in a few.

Or use Dash Instant Send in which case you don't have to wait around for confirmations or limit yourself to trusting only small cup of coffee sized amounts.

Infofront. This conversation keeps coming up, you should let my comment stand. Or are you trying to keep it a secret that Dash has already solved this problem?

Dash is not bitcoin.

You seem to want to get into some kind of compare and contrast discussion of Dash.. .and to pump dash as if it is a kind of solution.

Sure if there is some kind of innovation that is worthy in Dash, then bitcoin absorb such innovation into itself.. but Dash is another beast that many argue to be very centralized in the way that nodes are compensated... In other words, why the fuck we need to pump dash in this thread, even if arguably it may have some kind of temporary solution (and likely a lot of other disadvantages too, but who  the fuck cares about DASH details because it is not topical, here?)


Edit:

[edited out]

Or ya know, all you guys could stop with this line of pointless conjecture and quit pretending that Lightning Network doesn't exist for Bitcoin?

Also, the coffee analogy really sucks. Nobody is buying coffees with their bitcoin. In fact, people are hardly spending their bitcoin at all. Merchant spending usage probably accounts for less than 0.001% of all daily trade volume if that even. If I missed that guestimate by another decimal or two I wouldn't even be shocked.

Oh Fuck... Torque beat me to it, seemingly with more accuracy and eloquence, too.  Fuck!

Edit 2:

You know, as a business, you can accept zero confirmation transactions from both BTC and BCash.

Or use Dash Instant Send in which case you don't have to wait around for confirmations or limit yourself to trusting only small cup of coffee sized amounts.

Infofront. This conversation keeps coming up, you should let my comment stand. Or are you trying to keep it a secret that Dash has already solved this problem?

Secret? I think we are all already aware that centralized databases can reach finality quicker than decentralized permissionless systems.

Admittedly, even Jbreher with his own eloquence, if you could call it that.  Fuck!

@JJG
Thanks for making this conglomerate of fud, you've earned a merit for your trouble.
But you know fine well bitcoin cannot morph to absorb other coins features, it can't even agree on blocksize change. But thats OK that is what bitcoin is good at, being very conservative. As for being on topic. The topic was double spends and 0-conf transactions. I was on that topic. Or from now on we all stick to price walls only?

@Torque
 Noone is pretending Lignting Network is ready for use yet. I'm trying to be open minded about offchain transactions but there are limitations with LN.

@Jbreher
I'm dissapointed in you spreading outright lies, obviously I have misjudged you. Dash is a distributed decentralised blockchain secured with proof of work. Just like bitcoin.  

[kurious]

@Jbreher
I'm dissapointed in you spreading outright lies, obviously I have misjudged you. Dash is a distributed decentralised blockchain secured with proof of work. Just like bitcoin.  

Er... 'masternodes' - just like Bitcoin?

Lol

[JayJuanGee]

By the end of July we shall see price above $10k.

Not going to happen.

Just as likely to see price at 2k.

Random move, 4k up or 4k down. No analysis.

Do you really have conviction about what you just posted?  Aren't you exaggerating, Majormax?  

Do you really believe that the odds of BTC's price going to $2k or $10k is the same?  

That means 50/50 odds, no?

Personally, I would give higher odds that BTC would reach and exceed $10k before touching $2k or going below that.   I have a decently strong perspective that BTC will NEVER see $2k again, but odds of reaching $10k are quite high, especially the longer the time frame, perhaps greater than 75%.  

If you really believe that the odds are 50/50, but I have pretty strong feelings that the odds are greater than 50/50 that BTC prices will touch on and/or exceed $10k first, then that might be worth some kind of gentleman's bet, no?  Do you feel strongly enough to bet some kind of token amount?  Maybe something in the .001BTC territory?

if there's a bet with some timeframe i wanna do it as well if majormax feeling strong enough

I personally think to keep the amounts of the bet low, but to attempt to make the terms clear, because there are surely some strong sentiments regarding the bear sentiment "inevitability", and bulls (such as you and me) seem to have fairly strong sentiments in the opposite direction, which should be fruitful for friendly bets.

[afbitcoins]

@Jbreher
I'm dissapointed in you spreading outright lies, obviously I have misjudged you. Dash is a distributed decentralised blockchain secured with proof of work. Just like bitcoin.  

Er... 'masternodes' - just like Bitcoin?

Lol

Whats your point?

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

I will take this first part as exaggerated humor.

@JJG
Thanks for making this conglomerate of fud, you've earned a merit for your trouble.
But you know fine well bitcoin cannot morph to absorb other coins features, it can't even agree on blocksize change.

I am not joking around when I suggest that bitcoin is going to likely absorb good features of various other coins, either on layer 1 or layer 2 or layer 3.  Sure, it could take 50 years or more, but if there are truly good and sound market features in other coins, then they will likely move over to bitcoin.

Without going into a long thesis about the slowness of change in bitcoin, the essence of the matter remains that slowness of change in bitcoin is a feature rather than a bug, because bitcoin is not striving to serve as a experiment platform for all kinds of bullshit , but instead attempting to get a few things done really well which is making itself secure and attack proof. If bitcoin is secure, then the rest will follow - including value and features.  Of course, there are features being built on bitcoin all the time, and bitcoin continues to have the best of the best developers and features. 

Sure, there might be a lot of whining about bitcoin's supposed "failure to agree on blocksize change" (as you put it), but that failure to agree remains a feature rather than a bug.. because what seems to you like a failure to agree is actually a kind of agreement not to change and an agreement that segwit is good enough and powerful enough.. and such change that you believe to be needed has been largely decided as NOT needed.. at least not at this time... maybe in the future, and that is a BIG FUCKING MAYBE in the future.... I blocksize limit increase is going to be needed, and there seems to be quite a bit of evidence demonstrating that such block size limit increase is not needed, in spite of a bunch of whiners and in spite of a bunch of alt coin pumpers spewing out nonsense talking points trying to suggest that bitcoin is either defective or broken.. .which bitcoin is not either.

But thats OK that is what bitcoin is good at, being very conservative. As for being on topic. The topic was double spends and 0-conf transactions. I was on that topic. Or from now on we all stick to price walls only?

Fair enough... We don't really need to go into those other topics... and if peeps want to keep attempting to play with 0 confirmations on other coins, then let them do it.. NO problema.

@Torque
 Noone is pretending Lignting Network is ready for use yet. I'm trying to be open minded about offchain transactions but there are limitations with LN.

You are correct that LN is in very early stages of experimentation, but it still seems to be showing a lot of good potential for carrying a lot of bitcoin pegged transactional burden... fast and cheaply.

@Jbreher
I'm dissapointed in you spreading outright lies, obviously I have misjudged you. Dash is a distributed decentralised blockchain secured with proof of work. Just like bitcoin.  

I think that Jbreher made a decent point.. .. and surely DASH is not "just like bitcoin" in terms of its design and incentive structures.  Anyone should realize that there is a certain qualitative difference in the way that DASH has set up Masternodes, and surely there is no coin that comes anywhere near to the level of POW networking (hash) power that is being carried out on bitcoin.  NO alt coins are even close, including DASH.

[El duderino_]

By the end of July we shall see price above $10k.

Not going to happen.

Just as likely to see price at 2k.

Random move, 4k up or 4k down. No analysis.

Do you really have conviction about what you just posted?  Aren't you exaggerating, Majormax?  

Do you really believe that the odds of BTC's price going to $2k or $10k is the same?  

That means 50/50 odds, no?

Personally, I would give higher odds that BTC would reach and exceed $10k before touching $2k or going below that.   I have a decently strong perspective that BTC will NEVER see $2k again, but odds of reaching $10k are quite high, especially the longer the time frame, perhaps greater than 75%.  

If you really believe that the odds are 50/50, but I have pretty strong feelings that the odds are greater than 50/50 that BTC prices will touch on and/or exceed $10k first, then that might be worth some kind of gentleman's bet, no?  Do you feel strongly enough to bet some kind of token amount?  Maybe something in the .001BTC territory?

if there's a bet with some timeframe i wanna do it as well if majormax feeling strong enough

I personally think to keep the amounts of the bet low, but to attempt to make the terms clear, because there are surely some strong sentiments regarding the bear sentiment "inevitability", and bulls (such as you and me) seem to have fairly strong sentiments in the opposite direction, which should be fruitful for friendly bets.

[kurious]

@Jbreher
I'm dissapointed in you spreading outright lies, obviously I have misjudged you. Dash is a distributed decentralised blockchain secured with proof of work. Just like bitcoin.  

Er... 'masternodes' - just like Bitcoin?

Lol

Whats your point?

That saying dash / darkcoin is (and ever has been) 'just like Bitcoin' is at the very least a bit of a stretch.  Evan's control and the masternode system doesn't look at all 'decentralised' to me.

[bluebits]

Volume criticisms?

[realr0ach]

@Jbreher
I'm dissapointed in you spreading outright lies, obviously I have misjudged you. Dash is a distributed decentralised blockchain secured with proof of work. Just like bitcoin.  

Shilling for bitcoin is dishonorable enough.  Shilling for stuff like Darkcoin is bottom of the barrel.  Even people shilling for chicken or pork futures are more respectable than that.  

The latest rulings that Ethereum is not a security also removes any doubt that these things are govt backed scams too.  Ethereum is obviously a security (and Goldman Sachs bought most of the premine), so the only reason they would rule that way is if they want to trap you in a non-fungible, cashless society slave system where everything is tracked and monitored (these things), instead of you buying silver and gold which are free of govt control and don't abolish the 5th amendment just by using them.

[shahzadafzal]

LAMBOS FOR THE HODLERS THEY SAID

[Gyrsur]

LAMBOS FOR THE HODLERS THEY SAID