MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[blackreplica]

Mt Gox has redeemed itself in my eyes. I waited 3 months for an earlier regular swift withdrawal. Cancelled it and requested expedited 5% fee withdrawal instead. Today, about 2 weeks later, just like they promised, he money hit my account. 5 figure USD amount

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[cedivad]

Do not trust anyone using COMIC SANS ..

Most intelligent thing i've read in a while in this thread.

[Rampion]

Mt Gox has redeemed itself in my eyes. I waited 3 months for an earlier regular swift withdrawal. Cancelled it and requested expedited 5% fee withdrawal instead. Today, about 2 weeks later, just like they promised, he money hit my account. 5 figure USD amount

Wow, "expedited" or "emergency" 5% withdrawal that takes between 2 weeks and 4 weeks to clear... So much for the "emergency"

Honestly, I still think what I wrote weeks ago: the 5% fee is just a desperate attempt to make some extra money to cover Gox's losses. The BS about "the traditional banking system" not able to keep up with their volume is UTTER BS, guys I hope you know what Occam's Razor indicates here: Gox is doing fractional reserve with customers money, they have a huge $10M hole and they are struggling to cover it, and that's the only reason of the huge delays in withdrawals.

[sturle]

So can one person explain to me why these banks that are supposed to be throwing roadblocks in front of MtGox "because they want to stop/slow down bitcoin" do not throw these roadblocks in front of Bitstamp or BTC-E or any other big exchange?

Which planet have you been living on for the last three years?  This problem is not unique to MtGox.  40% of all exchanges have been forced to close in full or partly due to problems with banks.  MtGox has had at least three bank accounts closed.  (+ their PayPal account.)

Why is Bitstamp able to process my deposit in 2 days? And how is it possible that a withdraw from Bitstamp also only takes 2 or max 3 days?

MtGox can process your deposit in EUR (via SEPA) next day, or JPY in Japan in 2-3 hours.  Please ask Bitstamp how their withdrawal time is possible, but their volume is much smaller than MtGox's.  This is probably an important factor.  Bitstamp had problems recently as well, with banks refusing to transfer deposits.  Full verification of identity is now a requirement to trade there.

[sturle]

Mt Gox has redeemed itself in my eyes. I waited 3 months for an earlier regular swift withdrawal. Cancelled it and requested expedited 5% fee withdrawal instead. Today, about 2 weeks later, just like they promised, he money hit my account. 5 figure USD amount

Wow, "expedited" or "emergency" 5% withdrawal that takes between 2 weeks and 4 weeks to clear... So much for the "emergency"

Like promised.  The emergency withdrawal option is very limited.  There is probably a queue on that one as well now.

Honestly, I still think what I wrote weeks ago: the 5% fee is just a desperate attempt to make some extra money to cover Gox's losses. The BS about "the traditional banking system" not able to keep up with their volume is UTTER BS, guys I hope you know what Occam's Razor indicates here: Gox is doing fractional reserve with customers money, they have a huge $10M hole and they are struggling to cover it, and that's the only reason of the huge delays in withdrawals.

Your mouth is big, your documentation non-existing, you are making up holes, and you fail to explain anything in a way that makes sense.

[Rampion]

Mt Gox has redeemed itself in my eyes. I waited 3 months for an earlier regular swift withdrawal. Cancelled it and requested expedited 5% fee withdrawal instead. Today, about 2 weeks later, just like they promised, he money hit my account. 5 figure USD amount

Wow, "expedited" or "emergency" 5% withdrawal that takes between 2 weeks and 4 weeks to clear... So much for the "emergency"

Like promised.  The emergency withdrawal option is very limited.  There is probably a queue on that one as well now.

Honestly, I still think what I wrote weeks ago: the 5% fee is just a desperate attempt to make some extra money to cover Gox's losses. The BS about "the traditional banking system" not able to keep up with their volume is UTTER BS, guys I hope you know what Occam's Razor indicates here: Gox is doing fractional reserve with customers money, they have a huge $10M hole and they are struggling to cover it, and that's the only reason of the huge delays in withdrawals.

Your mouth is big, your documentation non-existing, you are making up holes, and you fail to explain anything in a way that makes sense.

I don't see why you take it so personal. I've been a long time customer of Gox, I moved very high volumes in and out without any problems in the past and I always posted positive reports when they were just doing good and people was spreading FUD, but now I just see the facts. Why do you think Gox's USD value is 10% lower than anywhere else? Oh, I see, is just people that is stupid and panic for nothing... So you are doing MILLIONS in arbitrage, right sturtle?

Secondly, the documentation in which I base myself to say they have a $10M hole is basically public knowledge. Just check a) the reply to Coinlab (where Gox admits that Coinlab withheld +$5M that were added to customer's balances, but they do not say anywhere in that document that they had to cover that with their profit. They ONLY say that money was credited to customer balances and Gox never received it; and b), the DHS statement where they state they sized aprox. $5M from Gox's Wells Fargo account.

Thirdly, in what documentation you base yourself to defend that Gox is perfectly solvent, and the delay is just because "the traditional banking system is unable to keep up with the demands of the thriving BTC economy"? Honestly, please answer to that. I hope you do not consider what Karpeles says on IRC as a valid source/documentation.

Finally, I don't know in what world do you live in, but in the world I live in you can swiftly send money IF YOU HAVE IT. Sure, some delays may occur from time to time, especially if your business could be considered "shady" or "high risk" by this or that bank, but at the end of the day you can move the money quickly if you have a) THE MONEY TO BE SENT, and b) THE MONEY TO PAY THE COSTS TO SEND THAT MONEY QUICKLY IN CASE THERE ARE DIFFICULTIES

So... Gox is charging a 5% fee to do "manual" withdrawals, a fee that is supposed to fully go to the bank (let me doubt about that, in my country that could almost be considered extortion... Paying extra 5% to have my freaking money??), and again we have 2/4 weeks delays for those "emergency withdrawals"? WHY? Because the guy doing the manual withdrawals at the bank is overwhelmed again (poor guy)? REALLY? Don't you realize that with a leonine 5% fee the bank could hire AS MANY GUYS AS THEY WANT to process the transfers in the same day, as this is their best interest, as they would be making HUGE money with that LEONINE fees?

Come on sturtle, come on: let's be serious.

[bobsmoke]

I am still waiting on my withdraw from 6th of August...

[solex]

Watch This and start to panic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hgA9j-4dB0

Former World bank Person Speaks out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and she buys Bitcoin

170,000 TONS of gold in vaults in Hawaii?  Is this the profits of the "superentity" which controls 60% of the biggest 43,000 companies??

Wild stuff, so might be more than 1 screw loose in her head.

[Alpaca Bob]

Watch This and start to panic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hgA9j-4dB0

Former World bank Person Speaks out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and she buys Bitcoin

170,000 TONS of gold in vaults in Hawaii?  Is this the profits of the "superentity" which controls 60% of the biggest 43,000 companies??

Wild stuff, so might be more than 1 screw loose in her head.

I don't know anything about gold in Hawaii, but here's an article on the study she mentioned:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed--the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html#.UlPipbOLe1E

I haven't peer reviewed it myself, but perhaps you shouldn't be so quick with the namy cally.

[sturle]

Honestly, I still think what I wrote weeks ago: the 5% fee is just a desperate attempt to make some extra money to cover Gox's losses. The BS about "the traditional banking system" not able to keep up with their volume is UTTER BS, guys I hope you know what Occam's Razor indicates here: Gox is doing fractional reserve with customers money, they have a huge $10M hole and they are struggling to cover it, and that's the only reason of the huge delays in withdrawals.

Your mouth is big, your documentation non-existing, you are making up holes, and you fail to explain anything in a way that makes sense.

I don't see why you take it so personal. I've been a long time customer of Gox, I moved very high volumes in and out without any problems in the past and I always posted positive reports when they were just doing good and people was spreading FUD, but now I just see the facts. Why do you think Gox's USD value is 10% lower than anywhere else? Oh, I see, is just people that is stupid and panic for nothing... So you are doing MILLIONS in arbitrage, right sturtle?

You don't see the facts, you mostly make them up in your own mind.  Like that 10 million USD hole of yours.  Completely ignoring the fact that MtGox made huge profits this year.  Completely ignoring what we know about Japanese banking.  Completely ignoring what we know of all the withdrawal methods that went away.  Etc.  You make up your own set of assumptions, ignoring most facts.

Secondly, the documentation in which I base myself to say they have a $10M hole is basically public knowledge. Just check a) the reply to Coinlab (where Gox admits that Coinlab withheld +$5M that were added to customer's balances, but they do not say anywhere in that document that they had to cover that with their profit. They ONLY say that money was credited to customer balances and Gox never received it; and b), the DHS statement where they state they sized aprox. $5M from Gox's Wells Fargo account.

There you go.  If I cooked up my books by only writing down my expenses and not my income, how true picture would it make of my economy?  I would be very broke, that's for sure.

Thirdly, in what documentation you base yourself to defend that Gox is perfectly solvent, and the delay is just because "the traditional banking system is unable to keep up with the demands of the thriving BTC economy"? Honestly, please answer to that. I hope you do not consider what Karpeles says on IRC as a valid source/documentation.

How can this not be true?  Their number of customers increased from ~10k to 600k in less than a year, while at the same time all alternative withdrawal options disappeared one by one.  MtGox executed half of the number of international wires in the second largest bank in Japan.  And I don't need to repeat what Japanese have written here in this thread about the Japanese banking system.  Most of their customers are not experienced in international trade and international bank wires, and 1 of 10 wires were returned due to wrong or incomplete information.  This generate a lot of work for the bank.  In my bank I get punished by a 60 USD fee if a wire is returned.

Finally, I don't know in what world do you live in, but in the world I live in you can swiftly send money IF YOU HAVE IT. Sure, some delays may occur from time to time, especially if your business could be considered "shady" or "high risk" by this or that bank, but at the end of the day you can move the money quickly if you have a) THE MONEY TO BE SENT, and b) THE MONEY TO PAY THE COSTS TO SEND THAT MONEY QUICKLY IN CASE THERE ARE DIFFICULTIES

I can send money if I have it, but my bank wouldn't be able to cope if I tried to send 1000 international wires a day and 100 of them bounced.  My bank would kick me out.  For sure.

So... Gox is charging a 5% fee to do "manual" withdrawals, a fee that is supposed to fully go to the bank (let me doubt about that, in my country that could almost be considered extortion... Paying extra 5% to have my freaking money??), and again we have 2/4 weeks delays for those "emergency withdrawals"? WHY? Because the guy doing the manual withdrawals at the bank is overwhelmed again (poor guy)? REALLY? Don't you realize that with a leonine 5% fee the bank could hire AS MANY GUYS AS THEY WANT to process the transfers in the same day, as this is their best interest, as they would be making HUGE money with that LEONINE fees?

This is 100% pure speculation from your part.  I would believe it if I heard it from their Japanese bank.

Come on sturtle, come on: let's be serious.

Because deliberately mistyping my name is very serious indeed.

[blackreplica]

Mt Gox has redeemed itself in my eyes. I waited 3 months for an earlier regular swift withdrawal. Cancelled it and requested expedited 5% fee withdrawal instead. Today, about 2 weeks later, just like they promised, he money hit my account. 5 figure USD amount

Wow, "expedited" or "emergency" 5% withdrawal that takes between 2 weeks and 4 weeks to clear... So much for the "emergency"

Honestly, I still think what I wrote weeks ago: the 5% fee is just a desperate attempt to make some extra money to cover Gox's losses. The BS about "the traditional banking system" not able to keep up with their volume is UTTER BS, guys I hope you know what Occam's Razor indicates here: Gox is doing fractional reserve with customers money, they have a huge $10M hole and they are struggling to cover it, and that's the only reason of the huge delays in withdrawals.

I did use the word expedited but not emergency. I dont think Gox refers to it as emergency either. At the time I placed my order, I was told the queue for expedited manual withdrawals would take 2 weeks to clear: it was precise to the very day.

You could be right: maybe gox takes the 5% haircut to cover losses. All I know is, the current regular withdrawal is broken (possibly intentionally but no one knows for sure)and finally I got a large sum of money on the promised timeline for once, and fee or no, at least now people know its a proper workable option. I'm sharing it here because I don't know how much longer this window will remain open. If there was serious money at stake I'm sure this information will be useful to some users.

I'm just happy to get my money. 5% is a small fee as opposed to 10% of the bitstamp exit strategy or 100% of never getting your money out. I've made enough from investing in bitcoin, I don't mind sacrificing a little money to put the cash in my hand

[trdiablo]

So can one person explain to me why these banks that are supposed to be throwing roadblocks in front of MtGox "because they want to stop/slow down bitcoin" do not throw these roadblocks in front of Bitstamp or BTC-E or any other big exchange?

Which planet have you been living on for the last three years?  This problem is not unique to MtGox.  40% of all exchanges have been forced to close in full or partly due to problems with banks.  MtGox has had at least three bank accounts closed.  (+ their PayPal account.)

Why is Bitstamp able to process my deposit in 2 days? And how is it possible that a withdraw from Bitstamp also only takes 2 or max 3 days?

MtGox can process your deposit in EUR (via SEPA) next day, or JPY in Japan in 2-3 hours.  Please ask Bitstamp how their withdrawal time is possible, but their volume is much smaller than MtGox's.  This is probably an important factor.  Bitstamp had problems recently as well, with banks refusing to transfer deposits.  Full verification of identity is now a requirement to trade there.

Ahh, the shill strikes again. Our keyboard warrior defending MtGox like his (or her?) life depends on it.
I have been living on planet earth and I have had no problems with deposit/withdrawal from/to Bitstamp and BTC-E. So yes, the problem seems to be unique to the clusterduck organization called MtGox. Bitstamp volume is also not much smaller than MtGox, get your facts straight.
Bitstamp exchanged 10,309 BTC/USD while MtGox exchanged only 4591 BTC/USD. Source: http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/#jump-btc-usd  B.itstamp also doesn't offer any of the other withdrawals like Okpay, Paypal, only withdrawal to EUR. So yes, it is possible to do.

Don't get me wrong, I still like MtGox and I will continue to do business with them. I am not here to bash them, I just want them to be more transparent.
Like I said earlier, if I have to wait 6 weeks for my SEPA withdrawal I can live with that but when I email the servicedesk I expect them to tell me that I have x amount of days left and not their robot answer "we will process as quickly as possible"

[leemar]

Gox is currently the third exchange by volume at 16%


https://bitcoinaverage.com/#USD

[grbox2001]

Just to add my view in. I held out on a Mt. Gox USD wire as long as I felt was reasonable. After waiting since August 22nd I canceled my request. To their credit it was processed very fast. I was able to purchase bitcoin (taking the hit!) and did 2 different bitcoin withdrawals to different address in a timely fashion with no problems.

For a much better experience let me tell you my expereince with bitfinex.com. I used them previously but haven't used them since they went more legit and started requiring documents for USD wires. I submitted my docs and was verified in under 24 hours. My 4 digit USD withdrawal  
was processed in less then 6 hours and they now say it is headed to the bank. I will edit this post when I receive the cash in my bank.

I refuse to do business with MtGox anymore. As countless people on here have said they are not transparent at all! The bitcoin community now has better offers. If the 5% emergency withdrawal is really an option maybe it is worth it for some people.

If you are short/medium term bullish on bitcon you might as well take the 10% hit now and wait until the price on other exchanges go up. Then you can break even. If Mt. Gox folds (I don't think it will but it is possible!) then you will be left as a bag holder. If Mt. Gox recovers and withdrawals are processed quickly the prices on exchange will equalize fairly quickly (my guess would be Mt. Gox would go down to Bitstamp, Bitfinex, etc prices) So unless you are on it very quickly you won't be able to sell your bitcoins on Mt. Gox for anymore money anyway.

Just my thoughts as I wanted to be part of this epic thread.
  

[sturle]

Gox is currently the third exchange by volume at 16%

https://bitcoinaverage.com/#USD

LOL!  Come back after a couple of months when you have learned something we grown-ups call addition.  To find total MtGox volume, you have to add the volume of all the currencies together.

[leemar]

Gox is currently the third exchange by volume at 16%

https://bitcoinaverage.com/#USD

LOL!  Come back after a couple of months when you have learned something we grown-ups call addition.  To find total MtGox volume, you have to add the volume of all the currencies together.

So sorry I meant dollar exchange rate, as that is where the main problem is.

I can add just fine. 

Grown up, really!  Why would you insult someone with no cause.

[sturle]

Gox is currently the third exchange by volume at 16%

https://bitcoinaverage.com/#USD

LOL!  Come back after a couple of months when you have learned something we grown-ups call addition.  To find total MtGox volume, you have to add the volume of all the currencies together.

So sorry I meant dollar exchange rate, as that is where the main problem is.

Rate or volume?

Anyway you made at least three mistakes:
1. Arbitrary 24 hour period.  Look at the volume over time to get a real number.  30 day here: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/
2. You are comparing apples and bicycles.  On some exchanges all the volume is counted as USD.  MtGox has a working multi-currency exchange.  This is their main feature.  If you deposit EUR and buy or sell and withdraw EUR, the trade will be reported as EUR.  Some other exchanges (noteably Bitstamp) will report this as USD.
3. To compare exchanges, you obviously have to use their total volume.  Not some arbitrary currency.

[leemar]

Gox is currently the third exchange by volume at 16%

https://bitcoinaverage.com/#USD

LOL!  Come back after a couple of months when you have learned something we grown-ups call addition.  To find total MtGox volume, you have to add the volume of all the currencies together.

So sorry I meant dollar exchange rate, as that is where the main problem is.

Rate or volume?

Anyway you made at least three mistakes:
1. Arbitrary 24 hour period.  Look at the volume over time to get a real number.  30 day here: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/
2. You are comparing apples and bicycles.  On some exchanges all the volume is counted as USD.  MtGox has a working multi-currency exchange.  This is their main feature.  If you deposit EUR and buy or sell and withdraw EUR, the trade will be reported as EUR.  Some other exchanges (noteably Bitstamp) will report this as USD.
3. To compare exchanges, you obviously have to use their total volume.  Not some arbitrary currency.

I did mean volume apologies

1. A 30 day sample is just a bigger sample and is no more “real”  than a 24 hour sample.
2. I did not know Bitstamp aggregated all currencies and quoted them as dollar exchange volumes,  I though they just traded dollars again apologies.  Presumable BTC-e is not the same as they quote muti-currency exchange rates?
3. People on this thread have quoted how some currencies are working better than others, notable Japanese yen, presumably because of locality.  Hence I was trying to illustrate how Gox was essentially loosing US business.
4.  You still don't need to be so rude.

[sturle]

Anyway you made at least three mistakes:
1. Arbitrary 24 hour period.  Look at the volume over time to get a real number.  30 day here: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/
2. You are comparing apples and bicycles.  On some exchanges all the volume is counted as USD.  MtGox has a working multi-currency exchange.  This is their main feature.  If you deposit EUR and buy or sell and withdraw EUR, the trade will be reported as EUR.  Some other exchanges (noteably Bitstamp) will report this as USD.
3. To compare exchanges, you obviously have to use their total volume.  Not some arbitrary currency.

1. A 30 day sample is just a bigger sample and is no more “real”  than a 24 hour sample.
2. I did not know Bitstamp aggregated all currencies and quoted them as dollar exchange volumes,  I though they just traded dollars again apologies.  Presumable BTC-e is not the same as they quote muti-currency exchange rates?
3. People on this thread have quoted how some currencies are working better than others, notable Japanese yen, presumably because of locality.  Hence I was trying to illustrate how Gox was essentially loosing US business.
4.  You still don't need to be so rude.

If you pick ten 24 hour samples by random, MtGox will lead most of them.  One 24 hour sample is hardly worth mentioning.  I have had days with higher volume on my simple OTC exchange (see sig) than CampBX and a lot of smaller exchanges.  This doesn't make me bigger than them.  If you take hourly volume, my volume has been higher than Bitstamp as well.  This does not make my exchange bigger than Bitstamp.  It is just a random fluctuation, and IMHO completely not interresting.

BTC-E have multiple markets with separate USD and EUR volumes.  Not interconnected the same way as MtGox, but still more than one currency.  Bitstamp converts everything to USD at a fee of ~0.4%, and the same fee when converting back.  It is not possible to convert by trading on the exchange, so if you think the USD value is going to fall (more or less certain as long as the worthless creatures in the USSA Congress are on strike), you have to get your funds out of there.  At a fee.  On MtGox you can easily convert your USD and trade forex as well as BTC.  Even USSAnians can do that.

Your illustration of MtGox losing US business isn't working very well.  Many people trading in USD on any exchange are not USSAnians, and many people trading other currencies on MtGox are.  Getting a JPY account to do fast arbitrage has become increasingly popular among USSAnians as well.

[leemar]

“It is just a random fluctuation, and IMHO completely not interesting “

It is not random just a smaller sample sizes, grown-ups should know what random means.

You can argue it is not significant but that and interest is as you say a matter of opinion, and in my opinion not correct.

Below 15% now.