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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2028799 times)
p3yot33at3r
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June 16, 2015, 05:32:58 PM
 #12781

The typical reasons are inconsistent earnings due to low network %, high pings, higher complexity, lower performance / earnings. P2Pool is a hard sell towards new users.

What complete & utter rubbish!

EDIT: I see now......



bitmain "support" guy Roll Eyes

Please don't post about subjects you know nothing about.
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jonnybravo0311
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June 16, 2015, 05:45:21 PM
 #12782

The typical reasons are inconsistent earnings due to low network %, high pings, higher complexity, lower performance / earnings. P2Pool is a hard sell towards new users.

What complete & utter rubbish!
No, it really isn't.

Inconsistent earnings are going to happen on virtually very pool with a low percentage of the network's hash rate.  P2Pool is no exception here.  It's called variance.

High pings.  This is only the case if you're mining on somebody else's node.  Most new users who don't have as much technical experience aren't going to bother setting up their own node (sadly) and will instead mine on other people's nodes.  This leads to the next point...

Higher complexity - setting up and running your own p2pool node requires a bit of technical know-how.  Ideally you've got a dedicated *nix server sitting somewhere, have installed the proper dependencies and have tuned things.  You also need to be running a full Bitcoin node.  Now, if you're mining on somebody else's node, it's just as simple as mining on any pool like kano.is.  However, you're at the mercy of that node operator and whether or not he's competent.

Lower performance / earnings.  Specific hardware will indeed have lower performance or not work at all on p2pool.  This is well known.  Earnings were addressed in the first point.

Now, if you don't feel like running your own node, there are plenty of operators that have proven themselves to run a tight ship.  In these cases, mining on p2pool is just as easy as any other pool.  If you've got the technical wherewithal or just feel like a bit of learning, running your own p2pool node is very rewarding.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
p3yot33at3r
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June 16, 2015, 06:09:41 PM
 #12783

I'm no Linux freak, yet I had no problem setting up my own node with merge mining, it's not hard at all. All that is required is plenty of reading & some common sense. If a noob user like me can do it - anyone can. Let's not make it sound harder than it really is.

As for the bitmain "support" troll, his post history on p2pool (the bitmain bodged version) tells it's own story.
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June 16, 2015, 06:24:42 PM
 #12784

i am sure there's something wrong with the crash setup.

yes, since 0.9.1 (of bitcoin core) ... they don't support WinXP (32).
 Grin but i don't only have bitccoin core on this "machine" ... and all others softwares work flawless (1 reboot after 45 days usually).

v0.9.1 work flawless with P2Pool node and miner software.
since this, all version crash with RPC server activate.

don't crash in Bitcoin Core node or wallet.

and, to be more specific ... it's not the P2Pool or Miner software that it has a problem : it's Bitcoin Core that it crash ! (P2Pool don't crash, Miner Software don't crash).

---

Well, it's not a problem for the planned task manager ...  Roll Eyes kill and launch is the solution now.

---

I have solomining on 2014 ... then P2Pool since 2015 and only have this problem since i (must) left the 0.9.1 because of version 3 of block creation.

French ... but not so much   ---===---   P2P ... it's people at the end   ---===---   P2Pool (10,9 GH/s).
Comment miner des bitcoins ? Un tutoriel est là : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1114415.0
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jonnybravo0311
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June 16, 2015, 06:35:10 PM
 #12785

I'm no Linux freak, yet I had no problem setting up my own node with merge mining, it's not hard at all. All that is required is plenty of reading & some common sense. If a noob user like me can do it - anyone can. Let's not make it sound harder than it really is.

As for the bitmain "support" troll, his post history on p2pool (the bitmain bodged version) tells it's own story.
The fact that you even know what Linux is, and have successfully gotten p2pool and merge mining up and running puts you far ahead of a typical user.  I happen to agree with you in that getting a node up and running is a pretty trivial task with a bit of research and reading; however, people expect a simple plug-and-play operation and running your own node is not.

As for dogie's comments in other threads, they can be addressed in the appropriate threads.  I was simply responding to his reply here, and his statements aren't off the mark.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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June 16, 2015, 07:48:40 PM
 #12786

I am not lazy or dumb, and I doubt people who tried to mine on p2pool and failed mostly are. Dogie is bitmain's shill and variance isn't to blame. My s5 isn't perfect and already fails sometimes on eligius (and ghash as secondary), but fails much more often on p2pool and I also get a lower hashrate, despite trying igor-white's firmware and kano's fix. That happens on my node or anyone else's!

Here, gave it another try just now: http://prntscr.com/7hqw1c s5 425mhz
All in all I am lucky if I get 1300gh/s long run hashrate on p2pool while I get no less than 1360gh/s on others. I find it sad mining is so centralized but I have no other option, at least I am not going for these big pools such as antpool, discus etc...

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June 16, 2015, 08:11:01 PM
 #12787

I am not lazy or dumb, and I doubt people who tried to mine on p2pool and failed mostly are. Dogie is bitmain's shill and variance isn't to blame. My s5 isn't perfect and already fails sometimes on eligius (and ghash as secondary), but fails much more often on p2pool and I also get a lower hashrate, despite trying igor-white's firmware and kano's fix. That happens on my node or anyone else's!

Here, gave it another try just now: http://prntscr.com/7hqw1c s5 425mhz
All in all I am lucky if I get 1300gh/s long run hashrate on p2pool while I get no less than 1360gh/s on others. I find it sad mining is so centralized but I have no other option, at least I am not going for these big pools such as antpool, discus etc...

looks more like miner fail than a pool failure in your case.

just me though, i'm ok with a little lower reported hashrate. end of the day, the payout counts the most.
p3yot33at3r
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June 16, 2015, 08:25:38 PM
 #12788

Agreed. Not all S5's are OC'able to the same extent, some don't like it at all. 425 is very OC'd - I would restart it at standard settings & slowly work your way up until you notice a failure, then back it up a notch. You'll find it will be not only more efficient, but less hassle also.
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June 16, 2015, 11:46:27 PM
 #12789

Agreed. Not all S5's are OC'able to the same extent, some don't like it at all. 425 is very OC'd - I would restart it at standard settings & slowly work your way up until you notice a failure, then back it up a notch. You'll find it will be not only more efficient, but less hassle also.

Yep, 425 is quite overclocked.  I had a farm of over 40 units and only 4 of them reliably worked at 425.  Most of them were capable of hitting 412.5, but not sustaining it.  387.5 was where the majority of them were happy and honestly the difference between 387.5 and 425 is not that much.

I'm not real surprised it's not stable at that rate. 

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June 17, 2015, 12:01:22 AM
 #12790

I am sorry but I am finding myself repeating these details over and over, here...
I have nearly no problems on any other pool. These problems only happen on p2pool, whether my own node or not. It's winter in southern hemisphere + my s5 is new + new model with heat sink + air conditioned room.
One board stops hashing, then returns after a few minutes, once every 2-3 days for a few minutes on other pools. This happens ~every 2 hours on p2pool. Not only that, but hashrate is slightly lower, even with igor white's firmware or kano's fix. Without them it is much lower.

And yes, I run 425mhz on other pools just fine. 0.044% hw. It was 0.02% a few weeks ago though  Undecided
I did a lot of testing and found 425mhz to be the best spot for me. It varies from person to person, miner to miner.

I will be keeping an eye on p2pool and this thread and eventually will be testing out stuff. For now, I will have to go to eligius and trust/hope they will not do anything wrong.

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June 17, 2015, 12:59:57 AM
 #12791

These problems only happen on p2pool, whether my own node or not. It's winter in southern hemisphere + my s5 is new + new model with heat sink + air conditioned room.
One board stops hashing, then returns after a few minutes, once every 2-3 days for a few minutes on other pools. This happens ~every 2 hours on p2pool. Not only that, but hashrate is slightly lower, even with igor white's firmware or kano's fix. Without them it is much lower.
p2pool's workload is much harder on the asics with much more frequent restarts which is when the current through the asics can vary dramatically depending on the design. More frequent fluctuations of voltage and/or current make for a much harder workload on the asics so you end up having to clock them lower.

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
-ck
Geremia
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June 17, 2015, 02:16:13 AM
 #12792

p2pool's workload is much harder on the asics with much more frequent restarts which is when the current through the asics can vary dramatically depending on the design. More frequent fluctuations of voltage and/or current make for a much harder workload on the asics so you end up having to clock them lower.
Why is "p2pool's workload" "much harder on the asics…" etc.?

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Geremia
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June 17, 2015, 02:35:30 AM
 #12793

I was told by Bitmain support non of the Bitmain S Series are designed to work with P2P due the the work reset process of P2P.  My s-3 work perfectly, my s-4 has had no issues but these darn s-5 all get stupid from time to time to the point i had to replace the pdu in my cab in the data center to remote resetable PDU and a great expense and a trip to the data center.

I might try and go back to the old firmware and a cgminer upgrade to see if that helps.

I like running my own node and I like the thought of P2P, but haveing to reboot hardware every day is getting old.
I'm beginning to blame all these P2Pool issues on Python. Let's face it; Python is a turtle compared to C.

Anyone interested in porting P2Pool to C? I seem to remember someone advocating that, or perhaps they've even begun implementing it.

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-ck
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June 17, 2015, 02:43:38 AM
 #12794

p2pool's workload is much harder on the asics with much more frequent restarts which is when the current through the asics can vary dramatically depending on the design. More frequent fluctuations of voltage and/or current make for a much harder workload on the asics so you end up having to clock them lower.
Why is "p2pool's workload" "much harder on the asics…" etc.?
I just explained precisely that... it's the fluctuations in current required during restarts and it has 10x more restarts than regular pooled mining.

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Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
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June 17, 2015, 02:52:07 AM
 #12795

p2pool's workload is much harder on the asics with much more frequent restarts which is when the current through the asics can vary dramatically depending on the design. More frequent fluctuations of voltage and/or current make for a much harder workload on the asics so you end up having to clock them lower.
Why is "p2pool's workload" "much harder on the asics…" etc.?
I just explained precisely that... it's the fluctuations in current required during restarts and it has 10x more restarts than regular pooled mining.
But why would that be unique to P2Pool? I just switched over to Eligius pool, and I'm not getting any of those issues.

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June 17, 2015, 02:57:23 AM
 #12796

I just explained precisely that... it's the fluctuations in current required during restarts and it has 10x more restarts than regular pooled mining.
But why would that be unique to P2Pool? I just switched over to Eligius pool, and I'm not getting any of those issues.

Not clear or concise enough? Perhaps if I quote myself louder?

it has 10x more restarts than regular pooled mining.

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
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June 17, 2015, 03:51:23 AM
 #12797

I just explained precisely that... it's the fluctuations in current required during restarts and it has 10x more restarts than regular pooled mining.
But why would that be unique to P2Pool? I just switched over to Eligius pool, and I'm not getting any of those issues.

Not clear or concise enough? Perhaps if I quote myself louder?

it has 10x more restarts than regular pooled mining.
Why?

Okay, this answers my question:
the p2pool share chain expected time to share is 30 seconds vs. the bitcoin block chain expected time to block of 10 mins p2pool sends work restarts to miners far more often then solo mining or a centralized pool.
But does it have to?

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June 17, 2015, 03:51:42 AM
 #12798

p2pool's workload is much harder on the asics with much more frequent restarts which is when the current through the asics can vary dramatically depending on the design. More frequent fluctuations of voltage and/or current make for a much harder workload on the asics so you end up having to clock them lower.
Why is "p2pool's workload" "much harder on the asics…" etc.?
I just explained precisely that... it's the fluctuations in current required during restarts and it has 10x more restarts than regular pooled mining.
But why would that be unique to P2Pool? I just switched over to Eligius pool, and I'm not getting any of those issues.

-ck is right. Because the p2pool share chain expected time to share is 30 seconds vs. the bitcoin block chain expected time to block of 10 mins p2pool sends work restarts to miners far more often then solo mining or a centralized pool.

Well designed miners can handle this work restart load, some are overwhelmed by it, the S2 was for sure. I've never tested an S5 but best guess is the results are the same:

It chokes on frequent work restarts.

Is this a bitmain design flaw? Yes
Does most of their hardware contain this flaw? No, S2 and S5.
Could they fix it? Yes.
Will they? No.

Edit: Originally listed S3, S3 works fine, changed to S2 which has been known to have similar problems to what is reported with S5.

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June 17, 2015, 04:04:19 AM
 #12799

Regarding them considering how to make their hardware work:
I've pointed it out to many manufacturers - Bitmain included - but they seem to think that whoever in their company who is designing how their hardware works, has the only answers on how it should work.
Pity, I made this ... free Smiley ... post long ago and have even updated it a few times ...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294499.0

The U3 is a good example of ignoring pretty much all of that post Tongue

It's not a direct answer to the above issue of work restart, but shows that they don't listen ...

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June 17, 2015, 09:43:57 AM
 #12800

Thank you -ck & kano for chiming in, your experience & knowledge is greatly appreciated  Smiley  I've read a lot about this subject throughout the thread, it seems to me that bitmain are actually working against p2pool, despite their claims in their pool thread that they actively support it:

We support p2pool protocol

.....and has been significantly developed during the development of Antpool.

This is simply not true. Shouldn't forum rules/admins require them to change this statement? Doing so would also save a lot of confusion for new users of p2pool who wonder why they can't get the most out of their bitmain hardware while using p2pool. They seem to be trying to transfer p2pools unique decentralised nature for their own marketing needs - despite being an obviously centralised pool.

As bitmain refuse to fix their firmware (or more likely - they're unable/don't know how to), I'd be more than willing to chip in towards a bounty for a revised & fully functional S5 firmware for p2pool - if kano/-ck would be willing? The S5's are still being sold, & will remain workable for a while yet I think, so it would certainly boost p2pools attractiveness to new users if they could simply connect & mine like any other pool.  What do you think?

Tak.
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