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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2028996 times)
aurel57
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February 04, 2015, 11:01:51 PM
 #11821

back2back ! yeeehaaaaaa

It can be like waiting for a bus sometimes - nothing for ages, then they all come at once...... Cheesy

Very nice! But got another question... How is p2pool able to pay out the coins so fast compared to other pools?

The "shares" that are submitted on the alt chain contain the payout info for all the miners.  When a share is big enough to be a block, it's submitted to the Bitcoin chain, and if accepted, the payout is distributed through the Bitcoin network as the share describes.  It's a very elegant solution.

Note that "payout" is probably a bad term.. more like mining distribution.

M

Thank you for explaining that!

These payouts are also virgin coins - freshly minted  Wink

That's the beauty of a truly decentralised system, we don't have to wait for any centralised body to pay us (or not, as happens on other pools), what you see is what you get.
I have to agree with you...it just took me a while to understand p2pool
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yslyung
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February 04, 2015, 11:47:23 PM
 #11822

back2back ! yeeehaaaaaa

It can be like waiting for a bus sometimes - nothing for ages, then they all come at once...... Cheesy

Very nice! But got another question... How is p2pool able to pay out the coins so fast compared to other pools?

The "shares" that are submitted on the alt chain contain the payout info for all the miners.  When a share is big enough to be a block, it's submitted to the Bitcoin chain, and if accepted, the payout is distributed through the Bitcoin network as the share describes.  It's a very elegant solution.

Note that "payout" is probably a bad term.. more like mining distribution.

M

Thank you for explaining that!

These payouts are also virgin coins - freshly minted  Wink

That's the beauty of a truly decentralised system, we don't have to wait for any centralised body to pay us (or not, as happens on other pools), what you see is what you get.
I have to agree with you...it just took me a while to understand p2pool

block finder gets a 0.5% bonus too also forgot to say thx to the recent donors who shared their wealth.
bhanu545
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February 05, 2015, 04:19:18 AM
 #11823

Is there any way to find out if our miners submitted any shares in p2pool?

I can see only minefast.CoinCadence.com node has detailed statistics on shares submitted etc. All other nodes dont have any stats except graphs of hashrate.

Is it something node owner has to install or integrate inorder to display shares submitted by miners?
jonnybravo0311
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February 05, 2015, 05:54:37 AM
 #11824

Is there any way to find out if our miners submitted any shares in p2pool?

I can see only minefast.CoinCadence.com node has detailed statistics on shares submitted etc. All other nodes dont have any stats except graphs of hashrate.

Is it something node owner has to install or integrate inorder to display shares submitted by miners?
Windpath spent some time coding a custom front end to p2pool so that he's able to display miner information.  The standard p2pool UI does not include anywhere near this detailed level of information.  Virtually every front end available just makes the standard information pretty - they do nothing to actually enhance that data.  Windpath does on his node, which is why you see such detailed information there.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
K1773R
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February 05, 2015, 07:15:22 AM
 #11825

Is there any way to find out if our miners submitted any shares in p2pool?

I can see only minefast.CoinCadence.com node has detailed statistics on shares submitted etc. All other nodes dont have any stats except graphs of hashrate.

Is it something node owner has to install or integrate inorder to display shares submitted by miners?
the goal of p2pool is to run p2pol locally. your doing it wrong!

[GPG Public Key]  [Devcoin Builds]  [BBQCoin Builds]  [Multichain Blockexplorer]  [Multichain Blockexplorer - PoS Coins]  [Ufasoft Miner Linux Builds]
BTC/DVC/TRC/FRC: 1K1773RbXRZVRQSSXe9N6N2MUFERvrdu6y ANC/XPM AK1773RTmRKtvbKBCrUu95UQg5iegrqyeA NMC: NK1773Rzv8b4ugmCgX789PbjewA9fL9Dy1 LTC: LKi773RBuPepQH8E6Zb1ponoCvgbU7hHmd EMC: EK1773RxUes1HX1YAGMZ1xVYBBRUCqfDoF BQC: bK1773R1APJz4yTgRkmdKQhjhiMyQpJgfN
windpath
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February 05, 2015, 07:30:16 AM
 #11826

Is there any way to find out if our miners submitted any shares in p2pool?

I can see only minefast.CoinCadence.com node has detailed statistics on shares submitted etc. All other nodes dont have any stats except graphs of hashrate.

Is it something node owner has to install or integrate inorder to display shares submitted by miners?
the goal of p2pool is to run p2pol locally. your doing it wrong!

Actually I think he is doing it right, and looking for the stats we provide for his own node front end.....

The answer is you can always view your payouts and other pool stats on our site, whether or not you mine with us, however we can only track share data for shares submitted to our node...

The default P2Pool front end will show you your valid (and orphan) shares since the last node restart under "Share Explorer", example:

http://minefast.coincadence.com:9332/static/original/

and for a specific share:

http://minefast.coincadence.com:9332/static/original/share.html#00000000000000264285d829c3e6fa60445fa32572be7a22090e39af7869e17a

If you want to keep them for all time, currently you need to implement some type of persistent storage solution outside of P2Pool...

bhanu545
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February 05, 2015, 08:30:51 AM
 #11827

Is there any way to find out if our miners submitted any shares in p2pool?

I can see only minefast.CoinCadence.com node has detailed statistics on shares submitted etc. All other nodes dont have any stats except graphs of hashrate.

Is it something node owner has to install or integrate inorder to display shares submitted by miners?
the goal of p2pool is to run p2pol locally. your doing it wrong!

Actually I think he is doing it right, and looking for the stats we provide for his own node front end.....

The answer is you can always view your payouts and other pool stats on our site, whether or not you mine with us, however we can only track share data for shares submitted to our node...

The default P2Pool front end will show you your valid (and orphan) shares since the last node restart under "Share Explorer", example:

http://minefast.coincadence.com:9332/static/original/

and for a specific share:

http://minefast.coincadence.com:9332/static/original/share.html#00000000000000264285d829c3e6fa60445fa32572be7a22090e39af7869e17a

If you want to keep them for all time, currently you need to implement some type of persistent storage solution outside of P2Pool...


Thanks for the info. I get it now. My present node seems to be problematic which doesnt show last shares correctly.

I have a doubt regarding actual node difficulty vs miner difficulty.

We can see the best share numbers in antminers, I know that if best share is more than node difficulty it doesnt mean that miner already found a share. a share difficulty can be anything, 100times the node difficulty etc.
My question is, bestshare in antminer shows sometimes less than Node difficulty. What does this mean? If its less than actuall difficulty does that mean miner is submitting lower difficulty shares and are discarded by pool because of lower difficulty? Which simply means such shares gives no payout at all?
windpath
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February 05, 2015, 08:44:54 AM
 #11828

...
My question is, bestshare in antminer shows sometimes less than Node difficulty. What does this mean? If its less than actuall difficulty does that mean miner is submitting lower difficulty shares and are discarded by pool because of lower difficulty? Which simply means such shares gives no payout at all?

Essentially yes, your miner will submit shares that meet the pseudo share difficulty, this number is typically much lower then actual share difficulty.

By doing this P2Pool is able to more accurately estimate your hashrate, and present you with better data on the front end.

If you were to only submit shares that meet the minimum P2Pool difficulty it would make the data presented to you on the front end far less reliable because of the time between your valid shares.

I'd be cautious about trusting "best share" on Ants, there have been errors in the past.




bhanu545
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February 05, 2015, 09:04:36 AM
 #11829

...
My question is, bestshare in antminer shows sometimes less than Node difficulty. What does this mean? If its less than actuall difficulty does that mean miner is submitting lower difficulty shares and are discarded by pool because of lower difficulty? Which simply means such shares gives no payout at all?

Essentially yes, your miner will submit shares that meet the pseudo share difficulty, this number is typically much lower then actual share difficulty.

By doing this P2Pool is able to more accurately estimate your hashrate, and present you with better data on the front end.

If you were to only submit shares that meet the minimum P2Pool difficulty it would make the data presented to you on the front end far less reliable because of the time between your valid shares.

I'd be cautious about trusting "best share" on Ants, there have been errors in the past.

Actually its waste of time for miners submitting shares with less than actual difficulty. Is there anyway we can set the miners to work only with the minimum node difficulty? Also are there any chances share submitted with minimum node difficulty can be rejected or discarded?

http://minefast.coincadence.com:9332/static/original/  - In this page, "My shares" shows invalid pages, how do we find the latest share submitted in this node under "my shares"? Opening each link to check the details is a headache job.
aurel57
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February 05, 2015, 09:28:17 AM
 #11830

...
My question is, bestshare in antminer shows sometimes less than Node difficulty. What does this mean? If its less than actuall difficulty does that mean miner is submitting lower difficulty shares and are discarded by pool because of lower difficulty? Which simply means such shares gives no payout at all?

Essentially yes, your miner will submit shares that meet the pseudo share difficulty, this number is typically much lower then actual share difficulty.

By doing this P2Pool is able to more accurately estimate your hashrate, and present you with better data on the front end.

If you were to only submit shares that meet the minimum P2Pool difficulty it would make the data presented to you on the front end far less reliable because of the time between your valid shares.

I'd be cautious about trusting "best share" on Ants, there have been errors in the past.





I am also thinking even if the Ant shows a "Best Share" large enough to get a share but you don't see it show up in your miners info on a pool, then most likely it was either a orphan or dead? I have only been mining on p2pool for less than a week and have tried a couple nodes near me (Chicago area). I also started off using a couple of wallets on my S3's and  S5's so I could see just which pools and/or miners were receiving shares. Now I have consolidated all miners to one node and one wallet. Still learning here but like what I see so far.
yslyung
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February 05, 2015, 09:56:28 AM
 #11831

...
My question is, bestshare in antminer shows sometimes less than Node difficulty. What does this mean? If its less than actuall difficulty does that mean miner is submitting lower difficulty shares and are discarded by pool because of lower difficulty? Which simply means such shares gives no payout at all?

Essentially yes, your miner will submit shares that meet the pseudo share difficulty, this number is typically much lower then actual share difficulty.

By doing this P2Pool is able to more accurately estimate your hashrate, and present you with better data on the front end.

If you were to only submit shares that meet the minimum P2Pool difficulty it would make the data presented to you on the front end far less reliable because of the time between your valid shares.

I'd be cautious about trusting "best share" on Ants, there have been errors in the past.





I am also thinking even if the Ant shows a "Best Share" large enough to get a share but you don't see it show up in your miners info on a pool, then most likely it was either a orphan or dead? I have only been mining on p2pool for less than a week and have tried a couple nodes near me (Chicago area). I also started off using a couple of wallets on my S3's and  S5's so I could see just which pools and/or miners were receiving shares. Now I have consolidated all miners to one node and one wallet. Still learning here but like what I see so far.

mate u WILL need plenty of patience, give it a week or so but it does pay off.
mdude77
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February 05, 2015, 10:32:16 AM
 #11832

Actually its waste of time for miners submitting shares with less than actual difficulty. Is there anyway we can set the miners to work only with the minimum node difficulty? Also are there any chances share submitted with minimum node difficulty can be rejected or discarded?

Yes, with a combination of the / and + parms on your username, you can only submit shares > say 10,000,000.  However it'll seriously mess with your speed reports on p2pool, which really doesn't hurt anything except makes it hard to monitor your miners and make sure they are online.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
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aurel57
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February 05, 2015, 10:33:25 AM
 #11833




Where is it located?

Asia/Malaysia

you can get more details @ http://nodes.p2pool.co/



ok if it was near me I would have gave it a try

Actually its waste of time for miners submitting shares with less than actual difficulty. Is there anyway we can set the miners to work only with the minimum node difficulty? Also are there any chances share submitted with minimum node difficulty can be rejected or discarded?

Yes, with a combination of the / and + parms on your username, you can only submit shares > say 10,000,000.  However it'll seriously mess with your speed reports on p2pool, which really doesn't hurt anything except makes it hard to monitor your miners and make sure they are online.

M

Does it help or is there any reason to do this?
PatMan
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February 05, 2015, 11:35:30 AM
 #11834

mate u WILL need plenty of patience, give it a week or so but it does pay off.

Indeed, patience is key with p2pool.

Although there is of course nothing wrong with mining on someone else's node, it's true that mining on your own local node is preferred for better performance & to help increase/strengthen the p2pool network. The problem is that many noobs to p2pool mining find that installing their own node is simply too daunting/complicated (not everyone is a coder & many people are not comfortable with command line). If p2pool is to grow & become more widely adopted, there should be an easier way to install it so that an absolute novice can be up & running within minutes.
I tried to address this issue over a year ago by suggesting there should be an open source graphical installer for both windoze & Linux, and I was even in conversation with a dev (Ahmed Bodi) who was willing to do one. Unfortunately, he got side tracked on other projects & nothing came of it. I'm no coder myself, far from it, but after talking with Ahmed, I'm sure that it wouldn't be too hard for someone with basic coding skills to do - maybe a bounty could be offered to get it done? I'm sure this would encourage more potential p2poolers to at least give it a try, thus helping p2pool become more mainstream as the Bitcoin ecosystem grows.
P2pool has the potential to be the defacto standard for mining, all that needs to be done is to encourage more users to adopt it - a simple installer would help achieve this.

And a complete re-write in C of course, as others have mentioned........ Cheesy

"When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
Amazon UK BTC payment service - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301229.0 - with FREE delivery!
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kano
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February 05, 2015, 12:13:56 PM
 #11835

back2back ! yeeehaaaaaa

It can be like waiting for a bus sometimes - nothing for ages, then they all come at once...... Cheesy

Very nice! But got another question... How is p2pool able to pay out the coins so fast compared to other pools?

The "shares" that are submitted on the alt chain contain the payout info for all the miners.  When a share is big enough to be a block, it's submitted to the Bitcoin chain, and if accepted, the payout is distributed through the Bitcoin network as the share describes.  It's a very elegant solution.

Note that "payout" is probably a bad term.. more like mining distribution.

M

Thank you for explaining that!

These payouts are also virgin coins - freshly minted  Wink

That's the beauty of a truly decentralised system, we don't have to wait for any centralised body to pay us (or not, as happens on other pools), what you see is what you get.
But you still have to wait 101 confirms before you can spend them.

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
aurel57
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February 05, 2015, 01:46:42 PM
 #11836

back2back ! yeeehaaaaaa

It can be like waiting for a bus sometimes - nothing for ages, then they all come at once...... Cheesy

Very nice! But got another question... How is p2pool able to pay out the coins so fast compared to other pools?

The "shares" that are submitted on the alt chain contain the payout info for all the miners.  When a share is big enough to be a block, it's submitted to the Bitcoin chain, and if accepted, the payout is distributed through the Bitcoin network as the share describes.  It's a very elegant solution.

Note that "payout" is probably a bad term.. more like mining distribution.

M

Thank you for explaining that!

These payouts are also virgin coins - freshly minted  Wink

That's the beauty of a truly decentralised system, we don't have to wait for any centralised body to pay us (or not, as happens on other pools), what you see is what you get.
But you still have to wait 101 confirms before you can spend them.

Kano I understand that the long (8+hours) wait I see in my wallet on the coins is the same wait it took you and other pool operators to be able to payout to the miners. It all makes sence now.
aurel57
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February 05, 2015, 01:50:11 PM
 #11837

mate u WILL need plenty of patience, give it a week or so but it does pay off.

Indeed, patience is key with p2pool.

Although there is of course nothing wrong with mining on someone else's node, it's true that mining on your own local node is preferred for better performance & to help increase/strengthen the p2pool network. The problem is that many noobs to p2pool mining find that installing their own node is simply too daunting/complicated (not everyone is a coder & many people are not comfortable with command line). If p2pool is to grow & become more widely adopted, there should be an easier way to install it so that an absolute novice can be up & running within minutes.
I tried to address this issue over a year ago by suggesting there should be an open source graphical installer for both windoze & Linux, and I was even in conversation with a dev (Ahmed Bodi) who was willing to do one. Unfortunately, he got side tracked on other projects & nothing came of it. I'm no coder myself, far from it, but after talking with Ahmed, I'm sure that it wouldn't be too hard for someone with basic coding skills to do - maybe a bounty could be offered to get it done? I'm sure this would encourage more potential p2poolers to at least give it a try, thus helping p2pool become more mainstream as the Bitcoin ecosystem grows.
P2pool has the potential to be the defacto standard for mining, all that needs to be done is to encourage more users to adopt it - a simple installer would help achieve this.

And a complete re-write in C of course, as others have mentioned........ Cheesy
You hit the nail on me about this. I would make my own node if it was within my knowledge but I know better than to try.  I would probley bring the whole pool down Tongue
idonothave
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February 05, 2015, 02:18:51 PM
 #11838

mate u WILL need plenty of patience, give it a week or so but it does pay off.

Indeed, patience is key with p2pool.

Although there is of course nothing wrong with mining on someone else's node, it's true that mining on your own local node is preferred for better performance & to help increase/strengthen the p2pool network. The problem is that many noobs to p2pool mining find that installing their own node is simply too daunting/complicated (not everyone is a coder & many people are not comfortable with command line). If p2pool is to grow & become more widely adopted, there should be an easier way to install it so that an absolute novice can be up & running within minutes.
I tried to address this issue over a year ago by suggesting there should be an open source graphical installer for both windoze & Linux, and I was even in conversation with a dev (Ahmed Bodi) who was willing to do one. Unfortunately, he got side tracked on other projects & nothing came of it. I'm no coder myself, far from it, but after talking with Ahmed, I'm sure that it wouldn't be too hard for someone with basic coding skills to do - maybe a bounty could be offered to get it done? I'm sure this would encourage more potential p2poolers to at least give it a try, thus helping p2pool become more mainstream as the Bitcoin ecosystem grows.
P2pool has the potential to be the defacto standard for mining, all that needs to be done is to encourage more users to adopt it - a simple installer would help achieve this.

And a complete re-write in C of course, as others have mentioned........ Cheesy
You hit the nail on me about this. I would make my own node if it was within my knowledge but I know better than to try.  I would probley bring the whole pool down Tongue

it is easy, You will get it
aurel57
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February 05, 2015, 02:41:46 PM
 #11839

Glad to see the pool hit another block so soon after those 2 yesterday.
bhanu545
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February 05, 2015, 02:53:30 PM
 #11840


http://minefast.coincadence.com:9332/static/original/  - In this page, "My shares" shows invalid pages, how do we find the latest share submitted in this node under "my shares"? Opening each link to check the details is a headache job.
Thanks Mdude77 and windpath for all the support.

But my question above is still being unanswered. Also how does the pool assign actual difficulty of a share to worker? Based on miner hashrate or node efficiency? Is there any connection with the node efficiency and actual share difficulty we get?
I was being told that better the nodes efficiency, higher the difficulty shares it gets from the pool. Or is it just random or luck?

Also does the submitted shares be valid for 24hours or 3 days or till a block is found since last block? I see different things written in different sources, so got confused with the p2pool PPLNS system.
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