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Author Topic: [1500 TH] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool  (Read 2032686 times)
iegservers
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February 21, 2015, 01:07:16 AM
 #12161

Spun up a node yesterday and pointed some gear at it Shocked
Count me in for a bounty. We can't just let p2pool die.

More of this please!!!! Smiley I will throw some btc at development as well. Smiley

http://iEGServers.com - "If you have found my posts to be informative, please dontate btc to : 1DSMgKPbQSRCmmBptebKYnNugxSmWHMzca
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kano
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February 21, 2015, 01:10:03 AM
 #12162

Spun up a node yesterday and pointed some gear at it Shocked
Count me in for a bounty. We can't just let p2pool die.

More of this please!!!! Smiley I will throw some btc at development as well. Smiley
Development isn't the current issue.
You need a workable design that overcomes the current problems first ...

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
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February 21, 2015, 01:20:57 AM
 #12163

Spun up a node yesterday and pointed some gear at it Shocked
Count me in for a bounty. We can't just let p2pool die.

More of this please!!!! Smiley I will throw some btc at development as well. Smiley
Development isn't the current issue.
You need a workable design that overcomes the current problems first ...

No, but it's an issue nonetheless. A bounty might hopefully get the ball rolling.
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February 21, 2015, 01:41:08 AM
 #12164

Development isn't the current issue.
You need a workable design that overcomes the current problems first ...

Can you summarize (or link to one?) as to what the current problems are? I'm relatively new to p2pool and haven't had a chance to catch up on all 600+ pages of this thread yet. Thanks Smiley

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February 21, 2015, 02:12:27 AM
 #12165

Development isn't the current issue.
You need a workable design that overcomes the current problems first ...

Can you summarize (or link to one?) as to what the current problems are? I'm relatively new to p2pool and haven't had a chance to catch up on all 600+ pages of this thread yet. Thanks Smiley

I would say the three main problems are:

1 - it's single threaded.  that means it starts to bog down, FAST, with heavy loads.
2 - share chain difficulty is directly proportional to pool hashpower.  the more hashpower there is, the higher the share chain difficulty, making it harder and harder for smaller miners to get a share.
3 - 30 second work restart.  this directly relates to #2.  p2pool targets to get a share on the alt chain once every 30 seconds.  the more hashpower, the quicker shares are found, so the higher the share chain requirement.  weak hardware (which is most of it) does not like 30 second restarts.  some hardware tolerates it, but suffers (bitmain hardware with up to date firmware).  some hardware is okay (spondoolies).  some hardware doesn't work at all.  increasing the time frame for a share means higher share difficulty.  see #2.

I think #2 and #3 are the fatal flaws of the current p2pool design.  Those have to change radically for p2pool to be successful on a wide scale.

When trying to solve #2 and #3 remember p2pool is decentralized.  each share submitted to the alt chain is a potential block, and contains the payout information for all miners who've successfully submitted shares on the alt chain.  furthermore, each p2pool node verifies the work submitted to the block chain.

M

EDIT: Most hardware today is designed with the BTC protocol in mind, which means complete work restarts every 10 minutes.  That's 20x less frequent than p2pool.  Most conventional pools (At least those I've watched the data flow through closely) submit new work every few minutes or less (without a work restart requirement), but they continue to accept old work until the miner can switch to the new jobs.  p2pool doesn't do that.  every 30 seconds (on average), it's a hard restart, and old work is ignored.

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
Buyer beware of Bitmain hardware and services.
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February 21, 2015, 02:17:24 AM
 #12166

To my knowledge, stratum don't keep its socket open(am I wrong?), thus scalability shouldn't be much of an issue here if the computer is fast enough. This could be profiled to get a better idea.
Let me be clear - stratum is not the issue here, it is just a communication protocol for the actual mining and it is NOT stratum or p2pool's stratum implementation that is the problem.

You need to get a firm grasp of what is involved in mining, pooled mining and the p2pool share chain first before you can understand where the problems are.

Let that not stop you from starting on the bits you do understand though since you have to start somewhere when helping out with an established project you're new to.

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
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armedmilitia
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We're going to need a bigger heatsink.


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February 21, 2015, 05:37:56 AM
 #12167

Isn't it true that if you mine on a node with other people (in your local area, to keep latency down), you can reduce difficulty to get a share that way (as the entire node finds a share, and distributes it to the participants via a lower difficulty pps method)?

I see that to be a viable workaround to flaw #2 above. Sure, it might boost centralization a bit as miners conglomerate into local nodes, but as long as there are geographic distances between miners super-nodes (51% of hashrate) shouldn't exist due to latency.

If this has already been answered in the thread, sorry!  Smiley

Always use escrow. OgNasty is pretty sweet.

Help me out with compiling a list of mining datacenters!
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February 21, 2015, 07:04:05 AM
 #12168

Isn't it true that if you mine on a node with other people (in your local area, to keep latency down), you can reduce difficulty to get a share that way (as the entire node finds a share, and distributes it to the participants via a lower difficulty pps method)?

I see that to be a viable workaround to flaw #2 above. Sure, it might boost centralization a bit as miners conglomerate into local nodes, but as long as there are geographic distances between miners super-nodes (51% of hashrate) shouldn't exist due to latency.

If this has already been answered in the thread, sorry!  Smiley
Yes it's been discussed (and done) many times before. You'll see the irony in this solution when you realise that the solution to the problem with distributed mining is... pooled mining. It requires a level of communication and trust and coordination which totally undoes the whole concept of everyone running their own p2pool node which need not have any trust component to it.

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
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jonnybravo0311
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February 21, 2015, 07:06:26 AM
 #12169

Isn't it true that if you mine on a node with other people (in your local area, to keep latency down), you can reduce difficulty to get a share that way (as the entire node finds a share, and distributes it to the participants via a lower difficulty pps method)?

I see that to be a viable workaround to flaw #2 above. Sure, it might boost centralization a bit as miners conglomerate into local nodes, but as long as there are geographic distances between miners super-nodes (51% of hashrate) shouldn't exist due to latency.

If this has already been answered in the thread, sorry!  Smiley
No.

You can only lower your share difficulty to the network's determined difficulty.  You do this by using the "/" after your address.  This may sound confusing, but it's pretty easy in reality.

If the node you're mining on has a considerably higher hash rate than what you are contributing, then it is advantageous to you to tell the node you want to have the network minimum share value.  For example.  Let's say that I run my own node and I have 30TH/s on it.  If you bring a single S5 onto my node, then you should setup your user name like this: "MYBTCADDRESS/1000".  That "/1000" will ensure that the node will accept the minimum share difficulty for your miner - which right now is 3,200,000ish.  My 30TH/s miner, if I set the user name up like this: "MYBTCADDRESS", will assign me a share difficulty of about 14,000,000.

P2Pool assigns your miners difficulty based upon the node's total hash rate.  You override that value by using "/".

Hope that helps.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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February 21, 2015, 12:02:30 PM
 #12170

Isn't it true that if you mine on a node with other people (in your local area, to keep latency down), you can reduce difficulty to get a share that way (as the entire node finds a share, and distributes it to the participants via a lower difficulty pps method)?

I see that to be a viable workaround to flaw #2 above. Sure, it might boost centralization a bit as miners conglomerate into local nodes, but as long as there are geographic distances between miners super-nodes (51% of hashrate) shouldn't exist due to latency.

If this has already been answered in the thread, sorry!  Smiley

You can not lower the minimum alt share requirement.  You can only raise it.

M

MMinerMonitor author, monitor/auto/schedule reboots/alerts/remote/MobileMiner for Ants and Spondoolies! Latest (5.2). MPoolMonitor author, monitor stats/workers for most pools, global BTC stats (current/nxt diff/USD val/hashrate/calc)! Latest (v4.2) 
Buyer beware of Bitmain hardware and services.
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February 21, 2015, 01:50:32 PM
 #12171


greenshot
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February 21, 2015, 05:06:47 PM
 #12172


and another one  Cool

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February 21, 2015, 05:38:10 PM
 #12173

With everybody leaving I have just about made up for the slow week as my share value has more than doubled. Good thing I was on the road last week and just decided not to bother with the miners until I came home.
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February 21, 2015, 06:08:43 PM
 #12174

and a block ! more to come
PatMan
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February 21, 2015, 07:43:45 PM
 #12175

At last! Hopefully there will be a few more to make up for the terrible last 10 days we've had - although I do have the feeling that the reason we got these 2 blocks is because so many users left..... Tongue

"When one person is deluded it is called insanity - when many people are deluded it is called religion" - Robert M. Pirsig.  I don't want your coins, I want change.
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February 21, 2015, 08:15:28 PM
 #12176

Isn't it true that if you mine on a node with other people (in your local area, to keep latency down), you can reduce difficulty to get a share that way (as the entire node finds a share, and distributes it to the participants via a lower difficulty pps method)?

I see that to be a viable workaround to flaw #2 above. Sure, it might boost centralization a bit as miners conglomerate into local nodes, but as long as there are geographic distances between miners super-nodes (51% of hashrate) shouldn't exist due to latency.

If this has already been answered in the thread, sorry!  Smiley
No.

You can only lower your share difficulty to the network's determined difficulty.  You do this by using the "/" after your address.  This may sound confusing, but it's pretty easy in reality.

If the node you're mining on has a considerably higher hash rate than what you are contributing, then it is advantageous to you to tell the node you want to have the network minimum share value.  For example.  Let's say that I run my own node and I have 30TH/s on it.  If you bring a single S5 onto my node, then you should setup your user name like this: "MYBTCADDRESS/1000".  That "/1000" will ensure that the node will accept the minimum share difficulty for your miner - which right now is 3,200,000ish.  My 30TH/s miner, if I set the user name up like this: "MYBTCADDRESS", will assign me a share difficulty of about 14,000,000.

P2Pool assigns your miners difficulty based upon the node's total hash rate.  You override that value by using "/".

Hope that helps.

So I am on a node that has 10Th+ and I have a S5 there running at 500Gh so I should set it at  /? use 1000?
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February 21, 2015, 08:15:55 PM
 #12177

Hey, I clicked on the open pool list on P2Pool.org.. and its blank.

http://p2pool-nodes.info/

It was populated the other day..

iegservers
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February 21, 2015, 08:18:41 PM
 #12178

Hey, I clicked on the open pool list on P2Pool.org.. and its blank.

http://p2pool-nodes.info/

It was populated the other day..



I just was looking at this my self to see if we were on the list. guess not lol

http://iEGServers.com - "If you have found my posts to be informative, please dontate btc to : 1DSMgKPbQSRCmmBptebKYnNugxSmWHMzca
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February 21, 2015, 08:22:29 PM
 #12179

Just getting started with mining and curious about p2pool. What's the difference between these two projects?

https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool/graphs/contributors
https://github.com/Rav3nPL/p2pool-rav/graphs/contributors

Lots of other questions:

Are these just different implementations of the p2pool protocol?

Looks like forrestv's project's last release was in 2013. Does that indicate stable/finished software or does that indicate an abandoned project?

Rav3nPL's project seems to have more recent activity. Which project is better and why?

Are there other p2pool implementations aside from these two?

Is it possible to use Rav3nPL according to the guidance in http://p2pool.in/ ?

Which p2pool software project are most people using in Linux?

Thanks in advance for replies.
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February 21, 2015, 09:08:09 PM
 #12180

Isn't it true that if you mine on a node with other people (in your local area, to keep latency down), you can reduce difficulty to get a share that way (as the entire node finds a share, and distributes it to the participants via a lower difficulty pps method)?

I see that to be a viable workaround to flaw #2 above. Sure, it might boost centralization a bit as miners conglomerate into local nodes, but as long as there are geographic distances between miners super-nodes (51% of hashrate) shouldn't exist due to latency.

If this has already been answered in the thread, sorry!  Smiley
No.

You can only lower your share difficulty to the network's determined difficulty.  You do this by using the "/" after your address.  This may sound confusing, but it's pretty easy in reality.

If the node you're mining on has a considerably higher hash rate than what you are contributing, then it is advantageous to you to tell the node you want to have the network minimum share value.  For example.  Let's say that I run my own node and I have 30TH/s on it.  If you bring a single S5 onto my node, then you should setup your user name like this: "MYBTCADDRESS/1000".  That "/1000" will ensure that the node will accept the minimum share difficulty for your miner - which right now is 3,200,000ish.  My 30TH/s miner, if I set the user name up like this: "MYBTCADDRESS", will assign me a share difficulty of about 14,000,000.

P2Pool assigns your miners difficulty based upon the node's total hash rate.  You override that value by using "/".

Hope that helps.

So I am on a node that has 10Th+ and I have a S5 there running at 500Gh so I should set it at  /? use 1000?
Left to its own devices a node will adjust the share time to 30 minutes.  Therefore if the node's total hash rate would find a share in under half an hour the node will adjust the share difficulty up so that it settles back to that 30 minute mark.

You override that by using the "/".  As long as you use any value that is less than the network minimum share difficulty your worker will submit the minimum share difficulty.  So... Using /1000 or /1 or /1000000 doesn't matter.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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