Launching the Antminer L3+, World's Most Powerful and Efficient Litecoin Miner

[Searing]

LMAO Searing....I suspect you are closer to the truth than "not".

I ALWAYS want to be wrong...but ever since Bitmain last summer 'took' the order of mine off the truck (according to eastshore.xyz rep) because the price was pumping to

$25 then from like $8 bucks or some such...(if I remember correctly) due to a 'firmware error' and they then mined them for 6 weeks...and I got them 8 weeks later...well

a bit of suspicion don't ya know..especially when the firmware was labeled YET January 2017...

Add all the other 'games' they have played 'since' last summer of 2017..and you begin to 'suspect' a worldwide evil genius plan.....

also ..beware of bitmain 'giving coupon' from last year...it is a 'trap' of some sort that will become apparent...

but yeah....I'd love to be wrong...but Bitmain moving out of china...current psu's labeled 'hong kong' not 'china' now...coupons that expire end of May...etc etc

miners with psu's for a set price ...(likely used and yanked off the shelf)

yep, its a trap.....trouble is at 50% income tax (35% plus 10% state plus say 5% social security...so I call it 50% to be safe) I badly need equipment....

so probably will eventually take a chance ..if I can hang out till AFTER the giant dump of asic equip of many flavors by bitmain in march/april

but alas, will likely be a 'fail' on my part on how to time to get equipment with this dump of equip/likely new ASIC generations of equip over summer they will mine like hell

and of course....even if you WANT to order ...the www site lags out .if you are out of China so you are still F*cked.....

yeah....

please, please, let me be wrong! (though a price pump to 300 or 400 LTC would take more than  a bit of pressure off....if the ASIC gods are watching)

IT comes down to really, why is bitmain giving coupons? hmmmmm.....why the rush? yeah...afraid its a trap of some sort...we will see...

bitmain ...same evil orchestra.....different evil tunes..... rinse/wash/repeat (tm bitmain)

If theory I have seen about coupons expiring before you can order next generation machine, then we may be safe on current generation for 6 months.  I think my coupons expiring end of June if I remember correctly.  So if you figure order July 1 arrive September.  That would be worst case.  Though maybe we'll see a decred miner before that?  Just thinking next gen for L3.

alas....if there is next generation stuff and this fire sale of older equip (my view used) and such and with bitmain mining dec to jan w/o shipping (and dumping old asics of many flavors) and then after april/may dump annouces next generation pre-orders for say sept/oct..and then bitmain MINES LIKE HELL for another 4 months w/o any next generation miners...to any of us
whose pre-order money is building bitmain's data hall..ie none for us...all for them...

well, we are tail end charlie again..no..the difficulty from pre-order announce to gettting equipment in hand, IMHO will be 50% increase (guess) and bitmain will have been the

one running us over with tire tracks on our body with difficulty pump

again rinse/wash/repeat

again...wish to incorrect ..but we are talking bitmain here...it is how they 'roll' (tm bitmain)

[1715194980]

1715194980

[tomothy]

@Searing,

Honestly I'm in a similar situation as yourself. I need to re-invest in order to offset expected gains from mining from this year. Right now, prices for bitmain miners are nearly at fire sale discounts. The only difficulty is afaik, you can only apply one coupon per order or something, i.e., you can't buy 10 miners and apply 10 coupons to that order. You have to apply them each individually; i'm not sure what i will do about that. Regardless, S9's at $1900 and l3+s at $1400 aren't bad cost per miner. Ideally we will also see some miners start going out of business since they bought units at $2500 and have a much higher overhead, electricity cost, and are not prepared to withstand the bear mining season. This means maybe you could be picking up miners second hand from $800+. Regardless, paying full cost and shortly getting a USD return of $8/day right now in profits per miner for either an S9 or l3+ isn't awful. It's sure not great, but not awful. If you have to buy hardware, better to do it sooner rather than later and simply bite the bullet. The downside to any of this of course is if/when next gen machines launch and how long until they ship. I would assume whenever they are announced it will be a 3 month pre-order. I can't see next gen launching before May, June, or July. So I think if you buy now you will earn for 6 months and then things will get a bit tight.  I'm a bit short on cash so I'm waiting in the wings but eyeing these discounted prices like a vulture. (The other issue of course is finding someplace to hold/host your machines, I'm seeing more and more local pushback to miners...)

[Searing]

@Searing,

Honestly I'm in a similar situation as yourself. I need to re-invest in order to offset expected gains from mining from this year. Right now, prices for bitmain miners are nearly at fire sale discounts. The only difficulty is afaik, you can only apply one coupon per order or something, i.e., you can't buy 10 miners and apply 10 coupons to that order. You have to apply them each individually; i'm not sure what i will do about that. Regardless, S9's at $1900 and l3+s at $1400 aren't bad cost per miner. Ideally we will also see some miners start going out of business since they bought units at $2500 and have a much higher overhead, electricity cost, and are not prepared to withstand the bear mining season. This means maybe you could be picking up miners second hand from $800+. Regardless, paying full cost and shortly getting a USD return of $8/day right now in profits per miner for either an S9 or l3+ isn't awful. It's sure not great, but not awful. If you have to buy hardware, better to do it sooner rather than later and simply bite the bullet. The downside to any of this of course is if/when next gen machines launch and how long until they ship. I would assume whenever they are announced it will be a 3 month pre-order. I can't see next gen launching before May, June, or July. So I think if you buy now you will earn for 6 months and then things will get a bit tight.  I'm a bit short on cash so I'm waiting in the wings but eyeing these discounted prices like a vulture. (The other issue of course is finding someplace to hold/host your machines, I'm seeing more and more local pushback to miners...)

yeah, why I"m sitting on my hands....for the most part...with all the equip dump..and the coupons (mostly) expire 6/1/18....damn hard not to just say 'screw this' and HODL coin...

myself at 50% to tax man...(more or less I paid 41% last for 2017 taxes including soc sec as a home business and the 10% state income tax...so more or less 50% is how I play it..

the extra 9% in cash ..I will apply in mass to next years health insurance plan (home biz) .so call that a wash...

so anyway I can apply the 50% that is gone to above anyway to equipment instead (same deal) and then also get 25% compressed equip deduction in 1 year towards taxes I know

I will owe anyway this year (real money) THUS my risk is only 25% of equipment cost.....and cover electric to run the beastie...

even at that, with the dump in march/april I sit on my hands...if EVERYONE grabbing bitmains stuff w/coupons (the only game in town) is counting on the BTC and correspondingly the

LTC price and other scrypt-pow coins to go up accordingly..I keep asking myself.....why buy equip? IF it is a price pump that is needed to bail out the march/april stuff hitting the world

of asics of many flavors (sha-256/blake2b/scrypt-pow) .....why not just HODL crypto with NO risk of dubious equipment....at this point in time anyway....

so I look at stuff and scratch my head a lot....at $200 buck LTC it is the worst of all possible scrypt-pow worlds....giant difficulty slam march/april...everyone mining like hell and a flat

price....we need IMHO $300 buck coin for my Bitmain stuff to last into fall and my knc titans to last maybe into summer....we need $400 LTC for the stuff from bitmain hitting march/april

to ROI IMH0 and my stuff putters ALL OF IT Bitmain units and knc titans into the fall......so,I sit on my hands...if price is the only thing that may save us now...why swap crypto for crypto

out on the miners at best (oranges for oranges)

so sit on hands, contemplating the dust bunnies  on my keyboard in confusion...I will 'crack' probably, as I need equipment deduction...but WHEN is the question? (hell I should go back

to used stuff ..did that for 2 years)

befuddled yet

brad

[ilostmyface]

Searing has been in the game awhile and his thoughts only mirror mine ATM. Once you involve the TAX man it's a difficult game. I am at the point of wondering what to do with my small mine and the impending wave of miners.

[lunobird]

Searing has been in the game awhile and his thoughts only mirror mine ATM. Once you involve the TAX man it's a difficult game. I am at the point of wondering what to do with my small mine and the impending wave of miners.

Yep I came to the same conclusion.  Mining is for losers. Most miners could have made more if they just bought and held coins initially like Eth,  Starting out mining was fun initially, but afterwards I discovered irs wants to eat your left over crumbs leaving you with little reason to continue to want to mine, especially after these low price value

[JohnDoe3490]

Taxes can be reduced though. You can amortize your equipment for the profits.

[MTS Coin]

Searing has been in the game awhile and his thoughts only mirror mine ATM. Once you involve the TAX man it's a difficult game. I am at the point of wondering what to do with my small mine and the impending wave of miners.

I am in the exact same boat. Trying to figure out how to juggle a mine while keeping the taxes reasonable has been the hardest challenge yet.

[drofroLinden]

they rotate their machines on a scheduled mining cycle probably, 3 months in, they sell. Thats just my guess. Could be 6 months.

Regardless of what they do, people will buy them.

[Searing]

Taxes can be reduced though. You can amortize your equipment for the profits.

am doing that

50% set aside....and 25% equip end of the year OFF what I WILL pay the tax man in real $$$.....if I don't make enough for this to matter no equip deduction..

thus I could make a LOT of $$$ at front end of the year and little $$$ at end o year if miners go doorstop...so best to be a bit over the top for at least 2/3 of the year

cause if mining dries up

so playing it this way....due to the fact my miners may be toasters come the middle of summer..and currently, that is my income to live on for giggles (retired...have other

income...but why bother yet)...I can again, be more brave and maybe take out less as a set aside as the year goes on....but unsure on difficulty/mining as of yet..

we could have a scrypt-pow ...lets go sideways in price and up in difficulty year here yet in 2018.

brad


edit: re-read above ...you mean sell miners at the right time...er don't do that however read my reply below

Searing has been in the game awhile and his thoughts only mirror mine ATM. Once you involve the TAX man it's a difficult game. I am at the point of wondering what to do with my small mine and the impending wave of miners.

Yep I came to the same conclusion.  Mining is for losers. Most miners could have made more if they just bought and held coins initially like Eth,  Starting out mining was fun initially, but afterwards I discovered irs wants to eat your left over crumbs leaving you with little reason to continue to want to mine, especially after these low price value

Mining WAS worth it..but from 2013 to 2016 spring I only bought used equipment...I did guess right and get equipment at $4.15 LTC and a claimed a $6 buck floor for LTC just before
it took off ..so that worked...also in 2015 I got knc liguidation miners new (6) and (1) new off ebay for 1/3 the price they should have gone for

but those unicorn riding days may be over with bitmain controlling 90% of all ASIC miner of any flavor (scrypt-pow,sha-256,blake2b,x11) etc

but 2018..you could be right...swapping crypto for miners since say around last Sept....don't work well ...with a 18x increase (with down to 11x) in the last year

sell stuff in the attic to miners or crypto SURE

income from a job as a flyer SURE

living on mining as income (retired for giggles until they run out) er....not so much anymore.....

looks like I may be going back to 1-2 years of just grabbing used stuff for its 'space heater' properties in winter ...etc

Again, in 2018 you well may be correct...*currently sitting on hands*  on any equip..even just a couple for fun...

[BenRickert]

Searing has been in the game awhile and his thoughts only mirror mine ATM. Once you involve the TAX man it's a difficult game. I am at the point of wondering what to do with my small mine and the impending wave of miners.

Yep I came to the same conclusion.  Mining is for losers. Most miners could have made more if they just bought and held coins initially like Eth,  Starting out mining was fun initially, but afterwards I discovered irs wants to eat your left over crumbs leaving you with little reason to continue to want to mine, especially after these low price value

This is wrong. Such a "blanket statement" is lacking in so many facets of the whole thing. I doubt that if you bought ANY crypto in December, that you'd be doing better than anyone let alone "miners".

[brummer]

hahaha. no wonder bitman posted more profits than Nvidia last year

[Searing]

WARNING: Begining of rant...the logic below is mine alone and due to my tax bracket mining etc.....keep this in mind...

TITLE: WHY I DID NOT GET AN L3+ SINCE LAST SEPTEMBER 2017...AND JUST HAVE BEEN IN HODL MODE!

My way of looking at getting an L3+ at this late date...(doubtful with march/april dump of equipment of many ASIC flavors by Bitmain)

I am in the boat where I'm at with soc sec/local and state taxes/and fed taxes around 41%..as I can't afford a CPA or bookkeeper (who'd know squat anyway about crypto)

I just dump 50% to the tax man on what I mine or cash out (or crypto if less than 1 yr and a day..40% and 10% for my state taxes)...

It is dumb and simple..the leftover $$$ from my simplified ..."keeping track to pay the tax man" month to month  (I am retired and currently trying to live off of mining, and not

touch other assets for giggles). Anyway..the extra 9% slack above the 41% taxman wise,  I'd likely be on the hook for,  will pay for my health insurance, up front thus 50% hack.

Simple and easy, and won't drive me "Insane" like last year after the fact ...trying to do this at the end of the year.....month to month from now on, the only way to fly!

Also, if my 'legacy' miners puke in the middle of the year, due to difficulty rise and price going sideways.....I NEED to be ahead of the game (month to month) with the tax folk!


Moving on...


Anyway, I crack say, and decide to get an L3+ using calcs and convoluted logic below:


From my calcs with shipping and PSU and L3+ to get to me is $1,600 bucks more or less for an L3+ unit without coupon.

$1,600.00 (PSU/shipping/customs/L3+)

 -$200 coupon I have

$1,400 USD

-$700 USD set aside monthly would go to my 50% anyway...would have been applied to tax set aside anyway. (see my above "odd" logic of why 50% set aside, see above)

-------------

 $700

remaining $700 bucks is cash that is left over (remember the $700 above is lost to me anyway either in equipment or to tax man) but this is cash I can SPEND after taxes...

Not to be if I decide to get equipment....with my above mining profits...with my dubious bookkeeping...

I use this extra $700 bucks from mining for 'dubious L3' below:


So I'm $700 bucks in......taking away the 25% equipment deduction OFF taxes (If I pay in enough at the end of the year, to take of taxes in real $$$ owed)

is 25% of the above $1400 bucks or $350

 $700
 -350
-------
$350 is what I'm in on the device over and above..what I'd pay the tax man ( with my dubious accounting above) or $350 bucks more..

means I'm IN for the device ...if all the above works out $350 bucks.....is my extra risk.


The other variable is my electric for 1 year..which is pretty much locked in at 12c kwh.

so 800watts x 24 x 30 days / 1,000 (for kwh) = 576 x 12c kwh = $69.12 per month x 12 months = $829.44

So my above equip risk above paying the tax man and health insurance (2019) set aside EXTRA is $350 plus electric for 1 year is $820.44 + $350 = $1,179.44

So $1,179.44 with equip risk above my taxes/health gimmick and electric for the year

THE ABOVE IS WHAT I HAVE IN THE GAME...FOR A PURCHASED L3+ NOW!

to really nail down the risk you then you go backward with your (in my case pretty close ballpark figure)

$1,179.44 / 12 months = $98.29 per month costs  divide $98.29 / 30 days = $3.28 / day.


So the AVERAGE to break EVEN paying for equipment costs (in my case) and electricity (in my case) DAILY is: $3.28 /day...IF DIFFICULTY REMAINED THE SAME (snicker)



As of this moment, ONE L3+ at 500mh and 800 watts on www.litecoinpoorl.org using their LTC calculator www.litecoinpool.org/calc

you get at this moment of $194.51 or $9.73 per day.....

BUT with the amount of march/april equipment by bitmain and others in scrypt-pow dumping....figure 1/3 of that is gone to make it about $6.52 after the march/april

dump of equipment from the last 4 months of scrypt-pow L3+'s by Bitmain... this is a guess...but a likelihood IMHO.

well.....as you can see...

1) we now know why they are dumping coupons

2) just can't see this as working out IF in the Summer as I expect..Bitmain pumps out new equipment with better hash and less electric for themselves

3) with above better equipment then does the "Bitmain Shuffle" ....takes pre-order from May till Sept...and ships in Sept..using your pre-order $$$

4) to basically mine like hell with the new generation of equipment for 4 months with us left in the rear ...likely with high priced, high-risk equipment again

rinse/wash/repeat


Thus, sitting on fence ...not getting nothing....at least till after the march/april dump of equipment of many ASIC flavors by Bitmain...really want another company

to compete with Bitmain..that now is likely a 'unicorn dream'


Anyway, probably everyone does a similar calculation to my above messy logic...but how I see it ...If we are all 'hoping' for a price pump of BTC and hopefully

LTC and all the other alts to get us out of an equipment hole..come march/april...well ....I'm just dandy mining what I have and waiting in that works for me just fine.

HOW anyone can get, on a price pump, equipment WITHOUT my issues above with hard $$$ and ONLY be looking at the 25% equipment deduction and the other

75% full risk, plus electric...without my dubious 'tricks' above...insane as they may be..well hobby miner folk...run far away...away..away and HODL is my advice.

..if it don't work with my above-convoluted logic it is NOT gonna fly for you, with ONE miner and regular deductions and regular folk tax bracket...(at least at 12c kwh for me!)

anyway...the fence sitting is giving me 'splinters' ... I likely will 'crack' and get 'some' ASIC equipment again..just not likely to do so after June 2018... (yeah, I know, there

won't' likely be any, dubious investment or not!)

(don't like my posts..stick me on /ignore...I don't care, I will not know, it's a win/win)

end of rant

Brad

[BenRickert]

Brad, you are right. I will write you my highly disregarded personal guarantee, that S9's and L3+'s will be selling in droves at or below $1000.00 USD per unit in the very near future. Due exactly to the metrics you've described. The Dam,s about to burst. Even Bitmain can't hide it anymore. There is much pain to be had on the horizon. I have gone into hibernation on the acquisition front as well. Keep your powder dry old salt. Live to fight another day.

[Searing]

Brad, you are right. I will write you my highly disregarded personal guarantee, that S9's and L3+'s will be selling in droves at or below $1000.00 USD per unit in the very near future. Due exactly to the metrics you've described. The Dam,s about to burst. Even Bitmain can't hide it anymore. There is much pain to be had on the horizon. I have gone into hibernation on the acquisition front as well. Keep your powder dry old salt. Live to fight another day.

further insult to injury .they 'taunt' me with approximately $1,550 Bitmain Coupons (though 8 x 100 bucks of them are to a buddy..who likely won't use them either)

Like I'm gonna buy, 14 units to use the above coupons....

the horror! Ack!

[.F.]

Brad, you are right. I will write you my highly disregarded personal guarantee, that S9's and L3+'s will be selling in droves at or below $1000.00 USD per unit in the very near future. Due exactly to the metrics you've described. The Dam,s about to burst. Even Bitmain can't hide it anymore. There is much pain to be had on the horizon. I have gone into hibernation on the acquisition front as well. Keep your powder dry old salt. Live to fight another day.

You guys are hilarious.

Best for you to stay on the sidelines. More profits for the rest of us!

[BenRickert]

Brad, you are right. I will write you my highly disregarded personal guarantee, that S9's and L3+'s will be selling in droves at or below $1000.00 USD per unit in the very near future. Due exactly to the metrics you've described. The Dam,s about to burst. Even Bitmain can't hide it anymore. There is much pain to be had on the horizon. I have gone into hibernation on the acquisition front as well. Keep your powder dry old salt. Live to fight another day.

You guys are hilarious.

Best for you to stay on the sidelines. More profits for the rest of us!

You're not very experienced are you? Take a look in hardware oh "wise one". https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3077083.0

Here's 5000 S9's for you. It's one of MANY For Sale adds for S9's and L3"s. Bitmain's page is chock full of offerings. You have no idea what you're talking about. Here's a hint millenial. Coin price goes down, while difficulty goes up, while Bitmain floods the market with ASIC's, while new higher efficiency Tech is on the near horizon. I've been in this game a long time and well ahead of the curve. You can shoot your mouth off and get smashed, or you can heed sage advice and survive. I'm sure you'll get smashed like a little cockroach. You just have that stupid kind of air about you.

[Searing]

Brad, you are right. I will write you my highly disregarded personal guarantee, that S9's and L3+'s will be selling in droves at or below $1000.00 USD per unit in the very near future. Due exactly to the metrics you've described. The Dam,s about to burst. Even Bitmain can't hide it anymore. There is much pain to be had on the horizon. I have gone into hibernation on the acquisition front as well. Keep your powder dry old salt. Live to fight another day.

You guys are hilarious.

Best for you to stay on the sidelines. More profits for the rest of us!

Hey, I hope you are correct on a 'price pump' for LTC or some such to pull us out of this...I'm just NOT willing to buy more equipment on such a risk....in that, I already

have 7,500mh of scrypt-pow...

It is just damn hard to know to guess on when/if/how to get equipment with Bitmain controlling 90% of ASIC miners of any flavor (sha-256/scrypt-pow/blake2b/x11)

but hey, again, hope you are correct....but equipment NOW vs HODL coin for 'price rise' (crosses fingers) and buy equipment later in the year is what I'm 'hoping' for

(then again, at one time I drank the BFL kool-aid...so what do I know)

[suchmoon]

The only difficulty is afaik, you can only apply one coupon per order or something, i.e., you can't buy 10 miners and apply 10 coupons to that order. You have to apply them each individually; i'm not sure what i will do about that.

I'm quite sure you can apply coupons in bulk. In fact I bought 20 miners in one order, all with coupons. If you mean one coupon per MINER - that is correct.

[toptek]

anyone bought a L3 + batch three for 2018, i did just wondering if anyone has had one ship yet, i have a V9 coming next week may buy two more ..sense it's a hobby for me i mine to HODL coins.

hey, again, hope you are correct....but equipment NOW vs HODL coin for 'price rise' (crosses fingers) and buy equipment later in the year is what I'm 'hoping' for

(then again, at one time I drank the BFL kool-aid...so what do I know)

That why I'm buying gear now and holding , the gear prices are dropping so now might be good to get one to three of the 14 nm chip miners then wait it out an mine with them till July or AUG sense that seems about when the 10nm and 7 nm gear will start popping up for  Public sell in large a mounts for the next two years at the least then it may start all over again.

[kenji]

anyone bought a L3 + batch three for 2018, i did just wondering if anyone has had one ship yet, i have a V9 coming next week may buy two more ..sense it's a hobby for me i mine to HODL coins.

hey, again, hope you are correct....but equipment NOW vs HODL coin for 'price rise' (crosses fingers) and buy equipment later in the year is what I'm 'hoping' for

(then again, at one time I drank the BFL kool-aid...so what do I know)

That why I'm buying gear now and holding , the gear prices are dropping so now might be good to get one to three of the 14 nm chip miners then wait it out an mine with them till July or AUG sense that seems about when the 10nm and 7 nm gear will start popping up for  Public sell in large a mounts for the next two years at the least then it may start all over again.

I think it's an excellent time to buy gear when it's so cheap.