Off-Topic

[mrthundercleese]

...
We would love to hear your comments on this.

im in it for the long haul.

I trust you.

I concur with this sentiment. If it wasn't apparent from my prior comments I am in your corner TH. I'd prefer HW Instead of a refund so hopefully we can make that happen one way or another.

[1715261301]

1715261301

[1715261301]

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[1715261301]

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[atomicchaos]

<update>

This is one of the best updates I have seen from you. Kudos, and keep that up along the way.

[crashzilla]

Please bring us good news next week.

[alfabitcoin]

Wonder if new project is with Btcgarden chips?

[notlist3d]

As much as I want to resist posting a reply to this crap, I am caving in.

Translation: I cant keep quiet any longer, as massive amounts of refunds requests.  I have to say something to try to stop legal action

- Salary
- Rent - phone line, internet, electricity

I said if their refunds happen good chance of salary being in it.... let me pretend to be shocked they list it as a expense.

Also as far as parts they claim as expenses.  There is NO photo proof such of PCB's and 100 cases and who knows what else.  This is the same company that claimed chip were bought and showed proof, then claimed they got out of it magically with a great clause that no seller would have given.

a) If you want 100% refund, you need to give us 3 months time. We fully acknowledge that we are legally required to issue a refund when asked. Legal issues aside, we ourselves want to do the right thing to maintain our credibility. But the fact is we do not have enough liquidity right now to process all the refund requests. If you are willing to settle for a partial refund right now, please contact us and we can work something out.
b) Keep your order with us. We deliver it within the promised time (2 weeks of receiving the chips). We will also give you a 20% (of your current order) credit for our next project which we will be announcing next week. This credit will be transferable (you can sell it if you want).

A) If they cannot refund 100 percent now take a look at future.  If you include salary, rent, it will only be less money to pay your refund.  Funnel that money out of that Inc. huh?
B)New project!  I got blasted for that as one of my guesses.... and guess what when they announce it preorders again!  


Anyways just watch out guys who still have orders, look at evidence, looking like BFL 2.0.  Except this company didn't even design their product BBK did that(BBK is a genius on boards nothing but respect for him he had nothing to do with TH failing).  Who will be R/D for next terahash project?

[bsuperior2]

We have waited this long so i'm totally willing to wait a little longer.

Thanks for the update!! We look forward to hearing from you next week.

If you guys wish, I can bring up the refund issue with Yifu (in case he answers), and get the chips refunded. But we are heavily invested into this. The cases, custom heat sinks, PCBs, parts acquired at higher prices or acquired from secondary market are all non-refundable and impossible to sell. And since we ordered everything for 80,000 chips (40,000 our own and 40,000 anticipated assembly orders). So even with a refund from Avalon (which we highly doubt they will ever give), we might be able to give only a very small partial refund.

But as I said we are working on something new, I request all of you to be a little more patient. We are going to announce something very unique, very exciting and very affordable next week. We really can't give out much details as of now, but in our opinion this would essentially be the final evolution in Bitcoin mining.

All of you know that we have demonstrated the ability to produce and run the boards. We were the first one to successfully assemble a K16, and we were the first to start mining with a fully assembled K16 as well. And we will again demonstrate the ability to mass produce boards once we get the chips.

In my opinion, instead of taking a decision of behalf of everyone and pressing Avalon for refunds, we give everyone the following options individually:

a) If you want 100% refund, you need to give us 3 months time. We fully acknowledge that we are legally required to issue a refund when asked. Legal issues aside, we ourselves want to do the right thing to maintain our credibility. But the fact is we do not have enough liquidity right now to process all the refund requests. If you are willing to settle for a partial refund right now, please contact us and we can work something out.
b) Keep your order with us. We deliver it within the promised time (2 weeks of receiving the chips). We will also give you a 20% (of your current order) credit for our next project which we will be announcing next week. This credit will be transferable (you can sell it if you want).

I hope you understand that we are doing this despite the fact that the current situation is NOT our fault. Everyone who ordered from us were totally aware of the risks involved. Also 20-25% was our average profit per order. So even with option 'b', we are willing to make 0 profit from this whole Avalon saga, just for the sake our next project and to maintain long-term credibility for our company.

We would love to hear your comments on this.

[Vigil]

If you guys wish, I can bring up the refund issue with Yifu (in case he answers), and get the chips refunded. But we are heavily invested into this. The cases, custom heat sinks, PCBs, parts acquired at higher prices or acquired from secondary market are all non-refundable and impossible to sell. And since we ordered everything for 80,000 chips (40,000 our own and 40,000 anticipated assembly orders). So even with a refund from Avalon (which we highly doubt they will ever give), we might be able to give only a very small partial refund.

But as I said we are working on something new, I request all of you to be a little more patient. We are going to announce something very unique, very exciting and very affordable next week. We really can't give out much details as of now, but in our opinion this would essentially be the final evolution in Bitcoin mining.

All of you know that we have demonstrated the ability to produce and run the boards. We were the first one to successfully assemble a K16, and we were the first to start mining with a fully assembled K16 as well. And we will again demonstrate the ability to mass produce boards once we get the chips.

In my opinion, instead of taking a decision of behalf of everyone and pressing Avalon for refunds, we give everyone the following options individually:

a) If you want 100% refund, you need to give us 3 months time. We fully acknowledge that we are legally required to issue a refund when asked. Legal issues aside, we ourselves want to do the right thing to maintain our credibility. But the fact is we do not have enough liquidity right now to process all the refund requests. If you are willing to settle for a partial refund right now, please contact us and we can work something out.
b) Keep your order with us. We deliver it within the promised time (2 weeks of receiving the chips). We will also give you a 20% (of your current order) credit for our next project which we will be announcing next week. This credit will be transferable (you can sell it if you want).

I hope you understand that we are doing this despite the fact that the current situation is NOT our fault. Everyone who ordered from us were totally aware of the risks involved. Also 20-25% was our average profit per order. So even with option 'b', we are willing to make 0 profit from this whole Avalon saga, just for the sake our next project and to maintain long-term credibility for our company.

We would love to hear your comments on this.

Bring up the issue of getting the chips at a discount and see how that goes. Avalon broke the contract and you need to stand up for honoring it.

[kkooks]

If you guys wish, I can bring up the refund issue with Yifu (in case he answers), and get the chips refunded. But we are heavily invested into this. The cases, custom heat sinks, PCBs, parts acquired at higher prices or acquired from secondary market are all non-refundable and impossible to sell. And since we ordered everything for 80,000 chips (40,000 our own and 40,000 anticipated assembly orders). So even with a refund from Avalon (which we highly doubt they will ever give), we might be able to give only a very small partial refund.

But as I said we are working on something new, I request all of you to be a little more patient. We are going to announce something very unique, very exciting and very affordable next week. We really can't give out much details as of now, but in our opinion this would essentially be the final evolution in Bitcoin mining.

All of you know that we have demonstrated the ability to produce and run the boards. We were the first one to successfully assemble a K16, and we were the first to start mining with a fully assembled K16 as well. And we will again demonstrate the ability to mass produce boards once we get the chips.

In my opinion, instead of taking a decision of behalf of everyone and pressing Avalon for refunds, we give everyone the following options individually:

a) If you want 100% refund, you need to give us 3 months time. We fully acknowledge that we are legally required to issue a refund when asked. Legal issues aside, we ourselves want to do the right thing to maintain our credibility. But the fact is we do not have enough liquidity right now to process all the refund requests. If you are willing to settle for a partial refund right now, please contact us and we can work something out.
b) Keep your order with us. We deliver it within the promised time (2 weeks of receiving the chips). We will also give you a 20% (of your current order) credit for our next project which we will be announcing next week. This credit will be transferable (you can sell it if you want).

I hope you understand that we are doing this despite the fact that the current situation is NOT our fault. Everyone who ordered from us were totally aware of the risks involved. Also 20-25% was our average profit per order. So even with option 'b', we are willing to make 0 profit from this whole Avalon saga, just for the sake our next project and to maintain long-term credibility for our company.

We would love to hear your comments on this.

Finally. We are headed to repair the damage to your PR.
Please ensure this is a promise kept.

[knightlife999]

I'll wait for my hardware. Thanks for being so forthcoming Amir. I'm looking forward to getting my boards. Hopefully Bitsyncom will ship the chips in the next couple of weeks. Looking forward to seeing what your next project will be!

[AtomSea]

but in our opinion this would essentially be the final evolution in Bitcoin mining.

This perked my ear  
Given your engineering success to date - I am quite interested in what this is.


I must admit, your communication with your customers is improving. If it gets near your technical abilities you will really have a strong shot of coming out on top of this asics boom  

I will not be requesting any refunds.
The work of BKKcoin on the Klondike board, and so many others in the open-source movement, including Terrahash engineers, deserve my modest investment to help keep Bitcoin mining decentralized and developers, well, developing

Even if I only ROI 50%, I have seen this, and will continue to see this, as an ability to learn asics while getting to know the field and contribute to the best open-source asics (board) project to date.

I feel this is all just getting rolling.

Next, I would love to see work done on an open-source chip that is highly energy efficient, uses sustainable processes, doesn't include toxic elements, has fair-trade status to ensure foundry workers are being paid properly, and a plan for end-of-life equipment recycling - on top of an already open-source board design - THEN mined using wind/solar/geothermal and unicorn farts. It would be this idealistic hippies' dream

Remember, this may be a sprint - but it's also a marathon - we need to be wise  

I look forward to what the future holds.

Peace.

[Bitoy]

Yifu wrote back to zefir
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Yifu is open to chip refund.  

Terrahash should get a refund.

Wait for bitsyncom to offer their chips at a discount and buy it back.

Terrahash can then Distribute the discount to their customer.  

so wait 6 more weeks so the chips are really not worth their price at all and have no way to ROI just to get a slight discount?

If bitsyncom is stuck with hundreds of thousands of chips (in stock ) due to refunds, He might sell it at a deep discount so that the buyer can get a positive roi.

[Bitoy]

b) Keep your order with us. We deliver it within the promised time (2 weeks of receiving the chips). We will also give you a 20% (of your current order) credit for our next project which we will be announcing next week. This credit will be transferable (you can sell it if you want).

I hope you understand that we are doing this despite the fact that the current situation is NOT our fault. Everyone who ordered from us were totally aware of the risks involved. Also 20-25% was our average profit per order. So even with option 'b', we are willing to make 0 profit from this whole Avalon saga, just for the sake our next project and to maintain long-term credibility for our company.

We would love to hear your comments on this.

I'm ok with b. as long as your next project is not a pre-selling. 

You get 0 profit.   We, Your customers, will not roi.   Both of us took a risk and lost.  (Only bitsyncom wins).

[-Redacted-]

I'm ok with b) also for my K-64s.  I knew and accepted the risks going into this...

[klee]

a) If you want 100% refund, you need to give us 3 months time. We fully acknowledge that we are legally required to issue a refund when asked. Legal issues aside, we ourselves want to do the right thing to maintain our credibility. But the fact is we do not have enough liquidity right now to process all the refund requests. If you are willing to settle for a partial refund right now, please contact us and we can work something out.
b) Keep your order with us. We deliver it within the promised time (2 weeks of receiving the chips). We will also give you a 20% (of your current order) credit for our next project which we will be announcing next week. This credit will be transferable (you can sell it if you want).

Great to hear news from you, I appreciate this!

Regarding a) if payment was in Bitcoins how will you refund, dollars or bitcoins?

It seems best thing to do right now is wait until next week to see what are you up to!

Cheers.

[threedrules]

I Will wait 

[massnerder]

a) If you want 100% refund, you need to give us 3 months time. We fully acknowledge that we are legally required to issue a refund when asked. Legal issues aside, we ourselves want to do the right thing to maintain our credibility. But the fact is we do not have enough liquidity right now to process all the refund requests. If you are willing to settle for a partial refund right now, please contact us and we can work something out.
b) Keep your order with us. We deliver it within the promised time (2 weeks of receiving the chips). We will also give you a 20% (of your current order) credit for our next project which we will be announcing next week. This credit will be transferable (you can sell it if you want).

Great to hear news from you, I appreciate this!

Regarding a) if payment was in Bitcoins how will you refund, dollars or bitcoins?

It seems best thing to do right now is wait until next week to see what are you up to!

Cheers.

I would assume (yea, we all know that's a mistake ) a BTC refund would be based on dollar value of BTC at the time of refund.  TH please correct me if I am wrong.

i.e.  You paid $x worth of BTC in June, you will get whatever that $x is worth in BTC when they process the refund.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems like the only fair way.  To just refund the exact amount of BTC you paid leaves somebody holding the bag.  If BTC goes down people will whine about losing money on their 100% refund, and if BTC goes up TH will have to refund more value than was paid.  I would be surprised if they refunded your BTC in dollars.  Just my 2 satoshis  

For option A, is that 3 months from the order date, or from now?  Just to clarify....  The way I see it, it's option B for those who paid in BTC.  At least for now    I am curious to see what this announcement next week will consist of though...

[BitCsByBit]

Wonder if new project is with Btcgarden chips?

There are others. Maybe Labcoin chip as it will be superior and cheaper per GH than the Btcgarden chip or maybe even Avalon Gen2 chip

[klee]

Wonder if new project is with Btcgarden chips?

There are others. Maybe Labcoin chip as it will be superiour and cheaper per GH than the Btcgarden chip or maybe even Avalon Gen2 chip

HashFast? Cointerra? Let's see!!

[klee]

F@ck, I want a board with all the chips: KnC, HF, Avalon, BTCGarden, Cointerra, Labcoin even BFL ahhahaha 

[Tad3j]

What if chips from Avalon never shows up and three months from now you have that project in hand, is it possible that you will replace our orders with the new project?