Off-Topic

[btceic]

next diff estimate: 86,140,290

[1715284010]

1715284010

[1715284010]

1715284010

[Vigil]

They had to meet that Aug 15 delivery deadline to be profitable - just two weeks later and they were unprofitable.

and if btc is 250 Huh? Calcs can only tell you about that day.

You should never factor an increase in BTC price to determine profitability. If you need BTC price to increase to make ROI then you lost out by not buying bitcoins instead.

I would have to say this depends on how long your time preference is.

Personally, I'd like to see dollars measured against the bitcoin someday, rather than the other way 'round. If that were to occur, $250/BTC would be chump change. Were the Federal Reserve and/or the FDIC to pull the kind of stunt that the EU central bank and the Cypriot banks pulled off, that would cause a mass exodus from the dollar, and the Cypriot example is still fresh in the mind of people with a much wider focus than bitcoin. Sure, the massive runup on the price of the bitcoin went back down, as bubbles inevitably will, but the hedge against the confiscation of funds WORKED for a lot of people who otherwise would have lost a lot more than they did. Cyprus is pretty small, but the example still stands.

While I still see gold as a more solid investment for those with a long time preference, it has some weaknesses that bitcoin don't. (that sword definitely has two edges). One of the strengths of Bitcoin, perhaps it's only valid one against precious metals, is that it's damn near impossible to confiscate an encrypted wallet. That's what made it a safe haven for the people of cyprus, and that is part of what makes it attractive as a growth investment.

I see the biggest problem of bitcoin primarily being general acceptance, which all of us should be exercising our brains and talents to change. Else mining will become useless. There needs to be more and easier ways to use it DIRECTLY as money, not just a few vendors and a few services. It needs to become as ubiquitous as VISA. There are some technical hurdles to this, outside of internet sales, due to the time of confirmation and some other things, but I am confident that the talent pool represented by this community is capable of overcoming them.

It has nothing to do with time preference.

[newguy05]

and if btc is 250 ? Calcs can only tell you about that day.

If you need btc to go to 250 to make a profit, then you'll make more money just buying btc rather than waiting on a miner to mine the btc.

+1. people just don't seem to understand the simple concept btc/usd is not relevant to mining profitability after the second you hand over the cash/btc for mining hardware.  I guess that's why there are so many sheeps buying hardware that can never roi.

[MinermanNC]

Why buy hardware if you don't have faith and a belief that BTC will go up ? otherwise, regardless of what you pay for hardware,,,it will be a loosing proposition and only depreciate quickly without a rise in BTC value. And if you are fortunate you may have a small window of time to get a ROI, that is" IF BTC doesnt go up. If BTC it does go up, than its all good or at least enough rise in value to keep in step with the difficulty rise...thats all...simple... 

[justmyname]

Why buy hardware if you don't have faith and a belief that BTC will go up ? otherwise, regardless of what you pay for hardware,,,it will be a loosing proposition and only depreciate quickly without a rise in BTC value. And if you are fortunate you may have a small window of time to get a ROI, that is" IF BTC doesnt go up. If BTC it does go up, than its all good or at least enough rise in value to keep in step with the difficulty rise...thats all...simple... 

If the BTC goes up enough. It is possible that you won't be able to buy it. One coin a month mining could be all you need to get filthy rich.  And all the jackals who bailed out might just regret it.   

[justmyname]

I see the biggest problem of bitcoin primarily being general acceptance, which all of us should be exercising our brains and talents to change. Else mining will become useless. There needs to be more and easier ways to use it DIRECTLY as money, not just a few vendors and a few services. It needs to become as ubiquitous as VISA. There are some technical hurdles to this, outside of internet sales, due to the time of confirmation and some other things, but I am confident that the talent pool represented by this community is capable of overcoming them.

https://www.bitmit.net/en/recent

http://www.amagimetals.com/

https://www.billpayforcoins.com/

[bitcoin carpenter]

Well if you live on vanxouver island ill do carpentry for bitcoins

[jdape]

I have yet to receive a reply to any recent (last month) support tickets.  They have not replied to email, nor have they answered the phone on any of the numerous attempts I've made during business hours.

Filed complaints against TerraHash at the Federal Trade Commission https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov, Better Business Bureau http://www.bbb.org, and Internet Crime Complaint Center http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx.

PayPal has escalated my complaint to a claim and they have suggested that anyone who paid TerraHash via PayPal and has not yet received a refund, call PayPal (or email aup@paypal.com) and report it ASAP.

[btceic]

I have yet to receive a reply to any recent (last month) support tickets.  They have not replied to email, nor have they answered the phone on any of the numerous attempts I've made during business hours.

Filed complaints against TerraHash at the Federal Trade Commission <https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov>, Better Business Bureau <http://www.bbb.org>, and Internet Crime Complaint Center <http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx>.

PayPal has escalated my complaint to a claim and they have suggested that anyone who paid TerraHash via PayPal and has not yet received a refund, call PayPal (or email aup@paypal.com) and report it ASAP.

Terrahash,
You would be wise to wake the fuck up and do something, anything besides hiding from your problems. These issues are not going to just up and disappear or magically go away. They are compounding on each other daily and before you know it you may just be defending yourself in court.

[joeventura]

Glad you guys  are getting along nicely without me. Just wanted to say Hi.

I was prompted back here by a post moderated by TH today. seems he is having a clear out of unwanted posts..

I have avoided putting my two peneth worth here to let you boys get on with it.

Am sure this too will get deleted but just wanted you too know that things are no longer above board on this thread..

This isn't a self moderated thread..... How would you post get "deleted"

I know btceic was clearing out his self moderated thread and deleting post, maybe that's where yours was?

More than likely, I just sent him a pm about it.

edit: to clarify, yes i was cleaning that thread up.

Yes clean that thread up, delete the messages of everyone who doesn't agree with you.

Then keep coming back and berating Terrahash even though you are not a customer.

Here is a great website for you:  consumerist.com  its all about companies that have done stupid things to their customers, you can go there and find bad companies and make them miserable too!!

p.s. still a dipshit.

[jdape]

Filed a complaint with the Oregon Department of Justice...

Your complaint has been submitted to consumer.hotline@doj.state.or.us. You will receive an acknowledgement soon.

... and the California Attorney General's office.

[southerngentuk]

Glad you guys  are getting along nicely without me. Just wanted to say Hi.

I was prompted back here by a post moderated by TH today. seems he is having a clear out of unwanted posts..

I have avoided putting my two peneth worth here to let you boys get on with it.

Am sure this too will get deleted but just wanted you too know that things are no longer above board on this thread..

This isn't a self moderated thread..... How would you post get "deleted"

I know btceic was clearing out his self moderated thread and deleting post, maybe that's where yours was?

More than likely, I just sent him a pm about it.

edit: to clarify, yes i was cleaning that thread up.

Yes clean that thread up, delete the messages of everyone who doesn't agree with you.

Then keep coming back and berating Terrahash even though you are not a customer.

Here is a great website for you:  consumerist.com  its all about companies that have done stupid things to their customers, you can go there and find bad companies and make them miserable too!!

p.s. still a dipshit.

And .....

OK, the message I got was not very clear. My apologies it is probably my mistake.

See what we did here ?

I point was made, Clarified as wrong and an apology was given. In a friendly adult fashion, including some friendly PM`s.

Then someone comes along calling people dipshits.   

[Biomech]

They had to meet that Aug 15 delivery deadline to be profitable - just two weeks later and they were unprofitable.

and if btc is 250 Huh? Calcs can only tell you about that day.

You should never factor an increase in BTC price to determine profitability. If you need BTC price to increase to make ROI then you lost out by not buying bitcoins instead.

I would have to say this depends on how long your time preference is.

Personally, I'd like to see dollars measured against the bitcoin someday, rather than the other way 'round. If that were to occur, $250/BTC would be chump change. Were the Federal Reserve and/or the FDIC to pull the kind of stunt that the EU central bank and the Cypriot banks pulled off, that would cause a mass exodus from the dollar, and the Cypriot example is still fresh in the mind of people with a much wider focus than bitcoin. Sure, the massive runup on the price of the bitcoin went back down, as bubbles inevitably will, but the hedge against the confiscation of funds WORKED for a lot of people who otherwise would have lost a lot more than they did. Cyprus is pretty small, but the example still stands.

While I still see gold as a more solid investment for those with a long time preference, it has some weaknesses that bitcoin don't. (that sword definitely has two edges). One of the strengths of Bitcoin, perhaps it's only valid one against precious metals, is that it's damn near impossible to confiscate an encrypted wallet. That's what made it a safe haven for the people of cyprus, and that is part of what makes it attractive as a growth investment.

I see the biggest problem of bitcoin primarily being general acceptance, which all of us should be exercising our brains and talents to change. Else mining will become useless. There needs to be more and easier ways to use it DIRECTLY as money, not just a few vendors and a few services. It needs to become as ubiquitous as VISA. There are some technical hurdles to this, outside of internet sales, due to the time of confirmation and some other things, but I am confident that the talent pool represented by this community is capable of overcoming them.

It has nothing to do with time preference.

In economics, EVERYTHING has to do with time preference. Credit and currency bubbles are driven by it. Your next purchase, whether food or non essential, is driven by it. http://mises.org/books/economics_in_one_lesson_hazlitt.pdf

[Biomech]

and if btc is 250 ? Calcs can only tell you about that day.

If you need btc to go to 250 to make a profit, then you'll make more money just buying btc rather than waiting on a miner to mine the btc.

+1. people just don't seem to understand the simple concept btc/usd is not relevant to mining profitability after the second you hand over the cash/btc for mining hardware.  I guess that's why there are so many sheeps buying hardware that can never roi.

You guys are so good at this ROI type stuff that it is a miracle that you are not extremely rich from it. Oh wait....

It doesn't matter what route you take (buying BTC or buying hardware)

There might be a better option that might include more or less risk involved but if you spent $1 and make back more than 1$ then you came out ahead. It doesn't matter if holding onto BTC would have been better, you still came out ahead.

Now no one is arguing to go all in one way or another.

Well put.

[bluefin]

It's clear now that Terrahash are engaging in dishonest business practices.

If they were not, they would be happy to refund customers who are no longer willing to wait. We get they had Avalon issues, but this is no excuse for not refunding customers as required by the law. They continue to not only ignore refund requests (against the law), but nearly any and all communications have virtually ceased via email, phone, their own support contact system on the website, in addition they have broken nearly every single promise to date, and continue to lie to the community about who they are, what the are doing and when their own customers can see any type of resolution.

It turns out anyone can file a complaint with the FTC, not just US based customers. Terrahash could be liable for a fine of $16,000 for each violation (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279330.0)

File a complaint right now at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ - Many people already have filed complaints over the last few days and weeks.

The FTC uses statistical analysis to detect fraud and helps them decide who to devote time prosecuting. Let's pull out the big guns. This will either turn Terrahash into an honest company and provide remedy to their customers, or make them face the consequences. We need complaints in numbers, so if you have been ripped off or treated badly, we need you.

Terrahash are sullying the reputation of Bitcoin. We must all stick together and help clean this mess up. Report your dissatisfaction to the the US Federal Trade Commission today at https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/ and help the entire bitcoin community.

[bluefin]

We will be assembling a test K64 tomorrow.

We really don't know what's happening at Avalon's end. We have not received any communication from Yifu whatsoever.

We are already working on Plan B. Can't reveal anything right now. But will update as soon as we can.

Countdown clock for the "assembled" k64

Timer removed. End time: 2013-08-30+24:00:00PST

Looks like you lost, where are the boards Terrahash?

Were you even able to get 1 k16 running at 333*16 without HW errors?

Amir, Justin,
You should pack it up and close your doors, save yourself from bankruptcy and the lawsuits that are surely coming your way.

You have failed in every way:
Failure to communicate in any meaningful way: check
Failure to produce a working prototype: check
Failure to recruit customer advocates: check
Failure to meet any of your own deadlines or promises: check

You failed and this is now undeniable.

Unbelievable!

I didn't see this before, how is it possible that you guys are still backing this company?

[atomicchaos]

While that is disappointing that they missed that time frame, the one that REALLY matters is the following:

Put the skirt back on, and pick up those pom-poms! We don't want you back in reality. Please give me a  to confirm you have your skirt back on...

[newguy05]

and if btc is 250 ? Calcs can only tell you about that day.

If you need btc to go to 250 to make a profit, then you'll make more money just buying btc rather than waiting on a miner to mine the btc.

+1. people just don't seem to understand the simple concept btc/usd is not relevant to mining profitability after the second you hand over the cash/btc for mining hardware.  I guess that's why there are so many sheeps buying hardware that can never roi.

You guys are so good at this ROI type stuff that it is a miracle that you are not extremely rich from it. Oh wait....

It doesn't matter what route you take (buying BTC or buying hardware)

There might be a better option that might include more or less risk involved but if you spent $1 and make back more than 1$ then you came out ahead. It doesn't matter if holding onto BTC would have been better, you still came out ahead.

Now no one is arguing to go all in one way or another.

this isnt a bash on terrahash, so you dont really need to come on a whitehorse to their rescue.

people are just trying to explain a simple concept that factoring in btc/usd price increase in roi calculation is incorrect and factually false. It's obvious you dont even understand what is being discussed, just blindly defend anything even remotely sound like a terrahash complain, i am telling you what was being discussed above has nothing to do with terrahash. So kindly go play in traffic instead.

[btceic]

We will be assembling a test K64 tomorrow.

We really don't know what's happening at Avalon's end. We have not received any communication from Yifu whatsoever.

We are already working on Plan B. Can't reveal anything right now. But will update as soon as we can.

Countdown clock for the "assembled" k64

Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-13+24:00:00EDT

What will your excuse be for them when Terrahash drops the ball on this one too?

[bcp19]

this isnt a bash on terrahash, so you dont really need to come on a whitehorse to their rescue.

people are just trying to explain a simple concept that factoring in btc/usd price increase in roi calculation is incorrect and factually false. It's obvious you dont even understand what is being discussed, just blindly defend anything even remotely sound like a terrahash complain, i am telling you what was being discussed above has nothing to do with terrahash. So kindly go play in traffic instead.

The problem here is that most people see buying BTC and sitting on it as boring.  Buying mining equipment is something that I can feel and look at and with the programs running, I can see them work.  I have to keep tabs on it to make sure the pool didn't go down, I have to make sure the program didn't hiccup.  I can walk past it 100 times a day and know it's working just for me.  I've made a cash investment in mining equipment and I get vicarious pleasure out of watching it tick up the fractions of BTC as it hums along.  If I buy the BTC and wait... I'm just watching grass grow.  If I want to watch grass grow, I can go sit in my yard.